THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON ENERGY, THE ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, October 1, 2024
The Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources met with videoconference this day at 6:30 p.m. [ET] to study Bill C-76, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act.
Senator Paul J. Massicotte (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: My name is Paul J. Massicotte. I’m a senator from Quebec and the chair of the committee.
Today, we’re conducting a meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.
I ask my fellow committee members to introduce themselves, beginning on my right.
Senator Verner: Josée Verner from Quebec.
Senator Loffreda: Good evening. Tony Loffreda from Quebec.
[English]
Senator White: Kwe. Judy White from Ktaqmkuk, better known as the province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Senator Sorensen: Karen Sorensen, Alberta, Banff National Park, Treaty 7 territory.
Senator Fridhandler: Daryl Fridhandler, Alberta.
Senator McCallum: Mary Jane McCallum, Manitoba.
Senator Robinson: Good evening. Welcome. Mary Robinson, Prince Edward Island.
Senator D. M. Wells: David Wells, Newfoundland and Labrador.
Senator Galvez: Rosa Galvez, Quebec.
Senator Arnot: David Arnot, Saskatchewan.
[Translation]
The Chair: Today, the committee begins its study of Bill C-49, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act.
For our first panel, we welcome the Honourable Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change. The minister is joined by the following Parks Canada officials: David Millar, Vice-President, Real Property and Assets; Andrew Campbell, Senior Vice-President, Operations; and Jewel Cunningham, Vice-President, Strategic Policy and Planning. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.
You have 10 minutes for your opening remarks.
The floor is yours, Minister.
The Honourable Steven Guilbeault, P.C., M.P., Minister of Environment and Climate Change: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Honourable senators, thank you for meeting with me today to discuss the vitally important Bill C-76.
[English]
Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I stand on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe peoples.
The day following the introduction, I brought forth a unanimous consent motion to expedite Bill C-76, and I know this chamber did the same. I thank all groups for their support.
On the evening of July 22, a lightning storm sparked four wildfires near the Jasper townsite. By 10 p.m., an evacuation order had been issued for Jasper National Park. In a few hours, more than 20,000 people had been safely evacuated without any casualties. As fires merged, a wall of fire nearly 300 metres high set across the southern valley in which the town of Jasper is found, projecting fiery pine cones, snapped treetops and branches up to a kilometre ahead of the fire.
[Translation]
Firefighters from Parks Canada, Jasper, Alberta Wildfire and dozens of towns across the country fought heroically to save people, homes, schools and hospitals. The fire was unstoppable and no forest could escape its path.
[English]
Through heroic efforts, the men and women who fought this unprecedented wildfire successfully protected 70% of the Jasper townsite. I cannot thank them enough. The courage and application of the collective efforts deployed in the first hours and days of the wildfire saved lives and the majority of the community. I want to thank all Parks Canada employees who have been working for decades to help us be better prepared for forest fires. We remember especially the loss of Morgan Kitchen, the Alberta Wildfire crew member who died in early August while fighting that fire — a sobering reminder of the risks our first responders face every day in their dedication to protect the safety, lives and property of others.
Only through the efforts of Morgan and hundreds of others like him was any further loss of life prevented. This fire has had a profound impact on the lives of so many people — impacts that are all too familiar to thousands of others in a growing number of communities that have been affected by wildfire in this country.
[Translation]
Buildings and critical urban infrastructure were damaged. People’s lives and businesses were upended. It will take time for the community to fully recover. Parks Canada is already working with the community of Jasper to help rebuild the town in a sustainable manner.
[English]
Bill C-76 is part of helping the reconstruction of a sustainable Jasper community.
[Translation]
I want to take a moment to acknowledge the decades-long collaborative efforts to prepare for and mitigate the risk of forest fires in Jasper.
[English]
Parks Canada, the Municipality of Jasper and Indigenous partners have worked together for almost 30 years to reduce known wildfire risks in Jasper National Park and around the town, making it one of the most fire-prepared and resilient communities in Canada. Parks Canada has used prescribed fires for four decades, including 15 in the last 10 years at Jasper National Park, to reduce the risk of wildfire to national park communities and to enhance ecosystem functioning.
Millions of dollars have been invested in the battle against mountain pine beetles, removing fuel sources from built areas and establishing a firebreak around the townsite. FireSmart Canada’s best practices have been implemented in Jasper National Park and have been largely inspired by what has been developed in Jasper.
The Government of Canada has invested in Jasper National Park for wildfire risk reduction activities, such as vegetation management, to reduce wildfire risks to people, infrastructure and assets. The total area treated in Jasper National Park since 2014 is approximately 1,700 hectares. However devastating the fire was, Parks Canada’s response and preparedness ensured it was not much worse.
[Translation]
Our government acknowledges the situation on the ground in Jasper. Our thoughts are with everyone affected by the forest fires and with the family of firefighter Morgan Kitchen. Hundreds of individuals, families and businesses have been forced to face evacuations and the loss of property, income and employment.
[English]
We’re working hard to ensure that all those affected receive the services and benefits to which they are entitled. We’re seeking to ensure that barriers to the sustainable reconstruction of the Jasper community are removed as rapidly as possible.
[Translation]
As part of this effort, we’re looking to update the Canada National Parks Act to make it possible to transfer land use planning and development authorities from Parks Canada to the municipality of Jasper. This change in legislation will support streamlined decision-making where local elected officials become empowered to make decisions on the reconstruction of their communities.
Parks Canada will remain a committed partner in the reconstruction process and will work with the municipality of Jasper. They have a strong working relationship, which has been demonstrated time and again over the years.
[English]
A unified command structure with the Municipality of Jasper was established on the first full day of the fire. This unified command has continued through re-entry, and it will remain in place throughout the recovery and rebuilding. By working together, the results can be achieved.
Residents were able to return to Jasper within a month of their evacuation. Roadways, the Miette Hot Springs and the Columbia Icefield were opened within days of the fire in town, and travellers were once again able to visit Jasper. Their presence is vital to the many tourism industries that cater to this clientele.
Now, as the Municipality of Jasper works to recover and rebuild, the adoption of Bill C-76 will continue to ensure our government is supporting Jasperites. With the current streamlining work being done and by implementing the right legislative authorities, local knowledge and local skills will be the leaders in assessing the needs of reconstruction of their community. Thank you.
[Translation]
I look forward to answering your questions.
The Chair: Thank you, Minister. Do any of your colleagues wish to comment? We’ll now open the floor to questions. You’re quite popular, Minister. A number of senators have questions.
[English]
Senator White: Thank you, minister, for your presentation here this evening.
As you’re aware, in October 2023, Parks Canada published a report about consultations relating to the transfer of lands. The consultation report indicates that notification letters had been sent out to 24 Indigenous partners. We understand that the only feedback they heard was from six Indigenous partners, and they met with some First Nations.
I’m just wondering about the duty to consult here. Does this actually apply to the amendments? If so, has the duty been fulfilled by the outreach with respect to this report?
Mr. Guilbeault: I don’t have this report in front of me. I wonder if one of my colleagues from Parks Canada could answer.
Andrew Campbell, Senior Vice-President, Operations, Parks Canada: For the duty to consult, essentially what we were consulting on was the transfer of power or the sharing of powers from a municipal standpoint with the Municipality of Jasper. For that, we reached out to all potential and all members of what’s called the Jasper forum. We also met with the Jasper forum, which is all of the Indigenous nations that have a relationship with Jasper. Through that, we received positive feedback from all of the nations. After the fire, many of the nations reached out to us and said that they were supportive of what we needed to do in order to move forward. We believe that we have fulfilled the duty to consult.
Senator White: Great. Thank you.
Senator Arnot: Thank you, Minister Guilbeault. I appreciate the sense of urgency attached to this bill, and I acknowledge the request of expediency being asked of this committee.
Minister, can you assure the committee that the Government of Canada is prepared to support the Municipality of Jasper during the transition in the short term and during the challenges it faces in the medium term as it works to rebuild, and to ensure that the climate and environmental factors that led to the fire and the situation are addressed?
I have a second question for the officials: Officials, can you describe the scope of the work that the municipality will be taking on? Have you identified the resources required to support that work? Will you be able to supply those resources to the municipality in order to accomplish this work and their new responsibilities pursuant to Bill C-76?
Mr. Guilbeault: Thank you for your intervention, senator. Together with Parks Canada, I have been in regular communication with the mayor and many city officials in Jasper. As I said in my opening remarks, we have a unified command structure that was put in place at the very beginning of the fire, but we’ve decided to keep it going for the reconstruction phase. I have regular conversations with the mayor, as well as Parks Canada and other federal departments, to make sure that we can provide the municipality with everything they need to rebuild as rapidly and efficiently as possible. I think that answers your first question.
Mr. Campbell: Since 2022, we’ve had a partnership with the town of Jasper, at which point they had asked us to start looking at the transfer of certain planning authorities and responsibilities. That’s where the 2023 report came from, as we were walking down that path with them.
We were walking there. The legislation now gives us that North Star: We all know we’re going to end at this transfer. During the interim phase, Bill Given, the town’s Chief Administrative Officer — who is attending your next session — was immediately put in charge of planning. We also brought in two executives to look after that transfer. They’ve put together a plan. We’ve fully resourced that plan for what it’s going to take for us both to be able to quickly do the permitting. The permitting is everything from the deck at your house to the fence you have, and all of that type of permitting. That type of permitting will be moving to the municipality, and they are building the resources to do that. In the interim period, we’ll have that resource, and there will be a transfer at a certain point.
Senator Sorensen: Thank you all for being here and for your comments. I am completely convinced that Bill C-76 is going to benefit the people of Jasper in terms of being able to move forward and rebuild efficiently.
Now is not the time for partisan politics and finger pointing, but some Canadians think that Parks Canada left the town vulnerable to wildfire by not removing more of the surrounding dead trees that had been eaten up during the mountain pine beetle infestation. I’m not sure that’s a fair criticism. If I recall, there were four ignitions in different places within a very short time span. The winds were very high, and the definition of a “wildfire” is that it’s uncontrollable.
Parks Canada has been conducting prescribed burns in the park since 1996, and the FireSmart program has been in effect since 2003. I know you mentioned some of this in your comments, minister, but I want to give you another chance to explain to the committee what Parks Canada and the municipality did to manage the risk, and what they continue to do. I would certainly appreciate your comments, and I’m sure Mr. Campbell also has some details.
Mr. Guilbeault: Thank you very much, senator. Thank you for all your help in this chamber on this bill.
In my initial remarks, I said that Jasper was one of the first FireSmart towns in Canada. In fact, for those who don’t know, FireSmart is a national program to help municipalities prepare themselves to face potential forest fires. A lot of what was developed in Jasper has gone into the elaboration of what we now do nationally. That being said — and I know that not everyone believes in climate change in this chamber; it’s the same thing on my side of things — when you look at the scientific literature and read the scientific reports and see the trends in Canada and elsewhere around the world, we are seeing an increase in the severity and number of forest fires. If anything, we have to look at the summer of 2023 to see how rapidly things can happen, as well as what we saw in Jasper.
You spoke about prescribed burns: We did that. Mechanical removals: We did that. Much of the forest ecosystem around the town was replaced by grasslands so as to remove potential fuel for an eventual fire. I spoke about this buffer zone of 1,700 hectares that had been created and the sprinklers that were installed around the town. All of these things played an important role in minimizing the impact of the forest fire, but we couldn’t eliminate the impact of the forest fire. All of this was done in collaboration with the town of Jasper and often with the Alberta forest fire authorities as well.
Perhaps, Mr. Campbell, you can talk about all of the work that’s been done in the case of an evacuation and the many — you don’t call them “dry runs”; there’s another term you use for that.
Mr. Campbell: It’s tabletop exercises. Some people have quoted Alan Fehr who was asked, in 2018, whether he was nervous around forest fires. At the end of it, he said, “No, because we felt we were prepared from an evacuation and emergency management perspective.” He was right.
There’s no other place in the country where 20,000 people have been evacuated in five hours. When we are quoting people, we should make sure we are quoting them properly and saying what they do.
Beyond that, if you think about the miracle of that and the preparedness that requires, on that night, it was 17-year-olds to 25-year-olds in those campgrounds who were managing them for us, and they evacuated those people. We had the help of the RCMP and the Alberta Emergency Management Agency, but they are the ones who removed those people. It should be a point of pride and a real success that, during that evacuation, not a single person was injured and not a single person was killed. Thank you.
Senator Sorensen: I just want to close by also thanking Parks Canada. As tragic as this has been — 30% of the town was lost — saving 70% of the town in that situation is an incredible success. I thank you and all your responders for doing what they did. I will also comment that five hours to evacuate 20,000 people is unbelievable.
Senator D. M. Wells: Thanks, panel and minister, for being here. There are a couple of things I want to talk about. One is prevention versus mitigation. I think you would agree that prevention is really important. Parks Canada is responsible for land management. Firefighting is important, but would you say that fire prevention is perhaps more important? I’m going to go there first. I have a couple of other questions that follow that, but that is fairly straightforward.
Mr. Guilbeault: Is fire prevention more important than land management?
Senator D. M. Wells: No, more important than mitigation.
Mr. Guilbeault: We have to do both, absolutely.
Senator D. M. Wells: Would you say prevention is more important?
Mr. Guilbeault: I think we need to do prevention, but in the case of an emergency, we need to be able to mitigate the impacts.
Senator D. M. Wells: Okay. In 2018, a number of leading scientists — I’m going to reference Emile Begin and Ken Hodges — spoke about some of the things that were happening:
You have fire suppression that has occurred for many years — therefore, you get a lot of dead fuel that would have been consumed by a natural process . . . . The mountain pine beetle adds even more fuel to the situation.
They continued:
You’ve got a major catastrophe on your hands if you get a match thrown into that . . . . If you do not reduce the fuel, then you’re leaving a fire that might burn similar to what happened in Waterton.
That is in reference to the Waterton fires in 2017.
Why wasn’t that warning heeded by Parks Canada if they’re in charge of land management and their scientists were saying this?
Mr. Guilbeault: I’ll answer, and I’m sure Mr. Campbell would like to add a few things.
Since 2020, we’ve invested about $86 million in fire prevention measures — mountain pine beetles and dead tree removal — in Alberta. It’s not just Jasper; it includes Wood Buffalo and other national parks in Alberta. If you want a comparison, during the last year that the previous government was in power — in 2014-15 — $2 million was invested. We invested $86 million. I think we have been doing a lot in terms of prevention.
I think Mr. Campbell would like to add a few things.
Mr. Campbell: The two people being referenced — Begin and Hodges — are professional foresters with 35 years of experience. If I have heart disease, I don’t go to my dentist. Foresters are not fire experts.
In 2016, we used 12 fire experts — the top people in the country — together with the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Centre’s council to determine the best way to do prescribed burns, prevention and mechanical removal. In 2016, we published a report, much of which, in 2018, Begin and Hodges said we should be doing. We were already doing them by 2016. We were already doing mechanical removal and massive prescribed burns that the minister talked about. We were already bringing in a tiered level of fire protection in fireguards within the townsite. We were already doing firebreak roads around. We already had fire removal on the bench.
I respect these two foresters with 35 years of experience, but even in their report, they were saying, “We talked to park wardens.” Wardens are only law enforcement officers. I don’t think we would talk to police officers to ask about fire-smarting the city of Ottawa.
Senator D. M. Wells: I understand, and that’s very clever, but they were absolutely right.
Mr. Campbell: No, we did everything they said.
Senator D. M. Wells: Even the mayor, who is also probably not a forestry expert, said the following around the same time:
If a fire starts in the Miette River valley in dry conditions with a bunch of dead standing trees, the intensity of that fire could just be enormous . . . .
While they may not be the professionals at the department, they were right.
Mr. Guilbeault: You’re not a scientist either, senator. You referred to them as scientists. As Mr. Campbell has pointed out, they’re foresters. I don’t believe they’re scientists. There’s a difference.
Senator D. M. Wells: Two scientists, Emile Begin and Ken Hodges, already alerted Parks Canada officials to the impending catastrophe and the lack of necessary preparedness and prevention measures.
Mr. Guilbeault: You referred to them as scientists. It’s not to take anything away from them.
Mr. Campbell: They are very experienced.
Senator D. M. Wells: But they were right. That’s the point I wanted to make on that.
My question is this: Minister, if this was done correctly, why was Jasper one-third burned? What could the department have done differently? What should the department have done differently? Or did you do everything right and this was still the result?
Mr. Guilbeault: If you compare it to other situations — take Lytton, for example, in British Columbia, where the entire town was burned to ashes — we’ve learned a lot from that. In those short few years, we have expanded the buffer zone. I understand you don’t believe in climate change, senator —
Senator D. M. Wells: I’m sorry; I’m on the record as believing in climate change. I know you may not follow Senate proceedings, but that kind of comment is rude and uncalled for.
Mr. Guilbeault: My apologies, then. That’s the last thing I read about your comments on this, so maybe I’m not up to date. For that, I apologize, senator.
As you know, because of climate change, there are more and more forest fires in Canada as well as in many other countries. You can look to the United States, Europe, China and Russia. The intensity of those forest fires is increasing. We have a 1,700-hectare buffer zone around Jasper and about 2,000 around Banff, if my memory serves me correctly. We will likely have to expand those buffer zones in light of a changing climate and more intense forest fires than we’ve seen before.
[Translation]
Senator Galvez: Thank you for joining us and for answering our questions, Minister.
[English]
I believe that Bill C-76 needs to pass, for sure, and I see the urgency of the situation, but here in the Senate, we also have to look at unintended consequences and the original aspects of legislation that we want to pass.
I completely agree with you that global warming is affecting everything. You forgot to mention the burns in the Amazon. It’s horrible. President Lula had to leave early from New York because of that.
Do the amendments to the Canada National Parks Act proposed in this bill apply only to Jasper National Park? Are there other national parks that will fall under these amendments? Because, as you just mentioned, we will continue living with these things, and we need to be prepared and to adapt.
Also, please comment on the impact of this bill and the economic consequences on the insurance sector, for example, because, as Canadians, we are now assuming all the costs. What is the message we are sending to insurance companies?
Mr. Guilbeault: Thank you, senator. The answer to your first question is that this only applies to Jasper. You have to understand that Jasper and Banff are in a unique situation in the country in the sense that they are towns within national parks, and we don’t have that in such a manner in other national parks. The legislation to delegate what we could refer to as town authorities to the Town of Banff was done many years ago — well before my time in politics. For some reason, it wasn’t done for Jasper. We started that work some years ago. Obviously, the forest fire is the reason why we’re here to accelerate the pace. It would only apply to Jasper. Obviously, we are looking at the impact or potential impact of forest fires on all of our national parks, but this is a situation that is specific to Jasper.
In terms of the insurance industry, you might have seen last week — or maybe it was the week before — the Insurance Bureau of Canada issued a statement saying that because of the months of July and August, 2024 is already the costliest year in terms of economic climate impacts in the history of Canada. It’s just these two months. It’s not all of 2024. So it’s forest fires and flooding in Eastern Canada.
We are actively engaged in conversations with the Insurance Bureau of Canada regarding what we need to do in terms of climate adaptation — we now have a National Adaptation Strategy that we’re deploying — and we’ve also been in conversation with them to see how the insurance industry can support the reconstruction of Jasper and ensure that insurance companies provide the municipalities, companies and, obviously, the people of Jasper with everything they need to rebuild as rapidly as possible.
Senator Galvez: From other fires of this extent and intensity, you’re not talking only about wood burning, but also cars, hospitals and houses. All of that leaves very toxic materials in the ground. Is it going to be treated as a contaminated site that needs decontamination?
Mr. Campbell: Yes. One of the things that we’ve done — which is being facilitated through the actions that we’re taking toward this act — is, in fact, expediting that permitting system but, at the same time, ensuring that the contamination is well managed. Everybody will need a decontamination permit in order to remove what’s left from their sites, and then in order to move that to a waste treatment facility, there will also be a transport of decontaminated goods permit that’s required.
Those permits, I will say, are being issued at a very rapid rate, with a lot of staff on site ensuring that the decontamination and those decontamination permits are done.
[Translation]
Senator Verner: I want to thank the four of you for joining us this evening. On another note, I gather that Parks Canada and the municipality of Jasper have a strong and solid working relationship. Minister, you said that you regularly speak with the mayor of Jasper. As my colleague said, decontamination work has been done or is under way.
Last week, the Alberta government announced $149 million in funding to rebuild the town of Jasper. You also plan to approach insurance companies.
My question is the following. Will the federal government provide funding to help rebuild the town of Jasper, as the provincial government has done?
Mr. Guilbeault: Thank you for your question, Senator Verner. In terms of working with the municipality, I believe that the mayor will be joining you in the next hour. You can ask him about it. I spoke with him again the week before last. Of course, the federal government will invest in Jasper’s reconstruction. We already announced, as did Alberta, that we would match donations to the Red Cross, for example dollar for dollar.
The Alberta government announced $149 million in funding last week, partly financed by the federal government. Federal money is included in that total. We’ll be investing even more than that amount. We need to conduct a needs assessment. We’re working on this with Parks Canada, the municipality and the Alberta government. For example, we already announced that the public and businesses would stop paying certain fees to Parks Canada, so there will be a break during the reconstruction. I don’t have the total, because we’re still working it out. However, the federal government will be investing substantial amounts.
Senator Verner: Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: I want to thank all our witnesses for joining us this evening.
[English]
Honourable minister, we are pleased to welcome you today as we discuss Bill C-76, which represents an important step in balancing the unique needs of Jasper’s community development with the conservation of our national parks.
[Translation]
Do you anticipate any conflicts between federal regulations and municipal bylaws? What mechanisms will come into play to resolve any conflicts between federal regulations and municipal bylaws?
Mr. Guilbeault: Thank you for your question. Bill C-76 seeks to transfer to the municipality the authorities currently held by Parks Canada in matters of municipal organization and affairs. A municipality would normally have these authorities. The purpose of the bill is to transfer these authorities to the municipality.
As I was saying earlier to one of your colleagues, Banff and Jasper hold a unique position in the country. These towns are located right in the middle of a national park. There are ongoing discussions about the way to proceed and the necessary compromises. A town in the middle of a national park is no ordinary municipality. This situation provides many benefits, but we must also make decisions together. The mayor of Jasper can confirm this. Parks Canada and the municipality have been working well together for many years on park management, development and the relationship between town and resident activities and the national park. How many Parks Canada employees live—
Mr. Campbell: About 500 employees.
Mr. Guilbeault: This amounts to 500 employees in a municipality of 3,000 to 4,000 people. Parks Canada has a strong local presence. There are close ties between the two.
[English]
Senator Loffreda: I would like you to further elaborate on how the federal government will ensure that local bylaws in Jasper align with the broader goals of national park conservation.
Mr. Campbell: Within the Canada National Parks Act, there is already a statute for Banff and for any other municipality — in this case, it’s Jasper, and when we have other townsites as well — that looks at that alignment. Each of them must have a town or municipal plan that is tabled in Parliament as part of how they move forward as a municipality. Within that town plan — and it’s hard when I have Senator Sorensen sitting here who has developed a number of those.
In that, there is a negotiation between Parks Canada and the municipality at that point to say, “Okay, what are the goals, and how does this fit within the national park framework?” Everybody works toward that, and then you set bylaws. If you are the mayor and council of Banff, you would set your bylaws based on that, and that’s what would happen in Jasper as well. There are the guardrails of the community plan, in fact, that is tabled in Parliament.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
Senator McCallum: Thank you for coming here. First, I would like to request the names of all the nations that have a relationship with Jasper, as you mentioned. As you know, First Nations whose ancestors lived in that area since time immemorial don’t live there anymore. They have been displaced.
What is the specific involvement of First Nations, Métis and Inuit peoples in the rebuilding of Jasper National Park? And we realize the municipality knows best how to rebuild better, and we look at the zoning and the building regulations that they are very well versed in for being able to rebuild.
What was done to address the concerns that arose during consultations, and how were they resolved?
Mr. Guilbeault: Perhaps I can start answering specifically on the matter of consultations. I will let Mr. Campbell take that part of the question.
In your introductory remarks, senator, you said that many Indigenous nations were displaced when that park was created. It is, unfortunately, the truth for many other parks created across Canada. On the path toward reconciliation, there are many things we are working on to change that.
For example, in Gwaii Haanas on Haida Gwaii, we are working with the nation which wants to take ownership of the national park, and we’re in discussion with them to see how that would work and what the role of Parks Canada would be. In other instances, we’re looking at benefit-sharing agreements with local nations that used to be there but aren’t anymore, and providing access to the park for the nation’s members. There are a number of things we are doing to try to right the wrongs of the past when it comes to the establishment of national parks.
Mr. Campbell: Yes, we can certainly share the list. That’s very easy to do.
There is a group called the Jasper forum, which is a Jasper Indigenous forum. It is a standing group of Indigenous people who are involved in the management of the park. One of the large projects of which we’re proud is an Indigenous garden, which was part of the fire-smarting of the downtown area. We are still hoping that project moves ahead with the Indigenous nations in the area. It is hard getting in and out, but it will be a great day when the Indigenous garden opens. It has been a project of the Jasper Indigenous forum for many years.
That forum is involved in many parts of park management, such as some of the areas where the park superintendent has put in orders for cultural use.
Jasper was one of the first parks within the mountain parks which has allowed and co-managed Indigenous hunt. There is a ceremonial hunt that’s done within Jasper on an annual basis. That started a couple of years ago. That was another co-managed and co-led project of the Jasper Indigenous forum.
Senator Robinson: I would like to build on Senator White’s question and Senator McCallum’s question on the duty to consult. Looking back recently, this committee dealt with Bill C-49, An Act to amend the Canada—Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and we heard at the eleventh hour from the First Nations in Nova Scotia that they had not been properly consulted. Their wording was firm, and they said in broad strokes that they supported Bill C-49, but because they had not been properly consulted, they felt they were being considered the delayers, and it put them in an awkward position, which was unfortunate.
I want to make sure that we are not repeating this mistake and that we have properly consulted with Indigenous peoples. I have a question: If we were to bring the 24 Indigenous partners in here and ask them if the Government of Canada has fulfilled its duty to consult, are you confident they would all say yes?
Mr. Guilbeault: I’ll let Mr. Campbell answer because he’s been more involved. In addition to what I told Senator McCallum a little bit earlier in terms of some of the things we are changing at Parks Canada, especially in our relationship with Indigenous people, I had the honour this summer of announcing the forty-eighth national park, Pituamkek, in P.E.I. It is entirely an Indigenous-led initiative. They came to us and said, “We want to create a national park on our traditional territory,” and we worked with them to do that.
Whether it’s a national park or a new conservation project anywhere in the country, if Indigenous people aren’t at the table, it’s not even worth coming to see me with your project. It won’t move ahead.
We are working hard to change the nature of that relationship. I’ll let Mr. Campbell answer the question about the consultation for Jasper.
Mr. Campbell: I had discussed the community plan, which is a fully consulted document that requires those 24 communities to be consulted, and it is a step on the path toward the implementation of the legislation. If you had all 24 here today, and one or two said that they didn’t, they would have another opportunity; they were all contacted. It would be wrong for me to speak for the nations, so I will not speak for the nations as to what they would say if they were to come here. But there is another path of that consultation before this legislation would be fully implemented and the powers would be delegated to the town of Jasper.
During the consultation process, though, when the Indigenous nations — in this case, mainly First Nations and one Métis Nation — responded to us, the main thing they were looking at was the reconnection to the land. The townsite wasn’t as large a concern as a reconnection to the land within the entire park. We have to remember that as important a place as Jasper the townsite is, it is a very small area within the entire national park. It was more around the national park. Most of the cultural zones and cultural areas — aside from the Indigenous garden within the townsite — are outside of the townsite.
It would be speculation, but it may be the reason that six of the nations responded to us directly, whereas the others didn’t. For a large number of forum members, the townsite doesn’t hold much interest. It’s the rest of the park and the connection to the valleys, the mountains and the water that are more important.
[Translation]
The Chair: Minister, before moving on to the second round, I just want to say that the process sounds urgent. We’re told that the bill must be passed quickly. We’re also told that, even after receiving royal assent, a bill can’t be implemented immediately. It will be shelved somewhere and then, after a while, the bill will be implemented. I don’t understand the urgency and then the delay. Can you explain it?
Mr. Guilbeault: I’m not sure, actually. This isn’t my first time here to talk about a bill. I’ve come almost one a year since I arrived in Parliament. Very rarely do we ask for unanimous consent. Our intention, our will, at the request of the municipality and the mayor of Jasper in particular, is to do everything in our power to transfer these authorities as quickly as possible. If you were to pass this bill, I wouldn’t sit on it for weeks or even months. We want to transfer these authorities as quickly as possible.
We have no intention of shelving the bill. I imagine that the municipality of Jasper has no intention of doing so either.
The Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Senator D. M. Wells: It’s unfortunate because I’m going to ask the same question I asked in round one. It wasn’t answered, and I may be back for round three. Minister, I asked about the mitigation measures that your department was in charge of, and now I think you’re calling it a success because only one third of Jasper burned. You mentioned Lytton, which had the fire in 2021.
My question is the same as it was before: What could your department have done differently that would have mitigated what happened in Jasper? That’s why we’re here. We’re talking about Jasper. We’re not talking about Lytton. We’re not talking about Prime Minister Harper’s budget in 2014. We’re talking about your budget now. What could your department have done differently that would have mitigated this? Or was this a success?
Mr. Guilbeault: As I said, it’s the fact that we were able to evacuate 20,000 people in five hours and the fact that 70% of the town was protected. You can’t look at one specific forest fire and make a conclusion about an entire government strategy around forest fires. I would argue that you need to take a broader view. Look at forest fires in 2023.
We understand and we know now that we’ve entered the era of climate change, so there will be more and more forest fires and the severity of those forest fires will increase, which is why we have a program such as FireSmart. But it does mean that we may need new norms because the norms are changing when it comes to forest fires.
Senator, you spoke earlier about the Miette River valley. The forest fire was controlled in that valley this summer. You were referencing the two foresters who said this valley could go up in fire. This fire was under control this summer. It’s not the fire that has affected the town of Jasper.
Senator D. M. Wells: Thank you for that. You know the Jasper fire — in fact, I think you said it — was started by a lightning strike. We all recognize that forest management prior to the fire was poor. There was no clearing — you mentioned the clearing — or a very small percentage was cleared; it was extremely small. Are you saying that more could not have been done, or was everything done? Was this a great success? We evacuated everyone — then it was a great success.
In fact, the park superintendent said:
Jasper is located in a forested environment and wildfires are always a concern . . . . We’re quite comfortable with where we are with our own emergency planning and evacuation planning.
Is that the plan: evacuation? Is that what makes this a success?
Mr. Guilbeault: If we were to clear-cut all the trees around the town of Jasper, I don’t think we would be fulfilling our mandate as stewards of a national park, which millions of people from Canada and all over the world come to see every year. I don’t think that’s what we’re doing.
We’re trying to find the right balance between making sure that we have adequate buffer zones around towns like Jasper — and many others around the country — and land management in national parks where people come to see the beauty of these parks.
Senator D. M. Wells: I want to say that they won’t be coming next year.
Senator Galvez: This morning, Andrew Francis was with us at the National Finance Committee, and we started this discussion — this dialogue — about the science of fire weather prediction. My colleague is asking what we can do better. One of the things that I think we can do better is to improve the present models and make it more regional. I asked this morning why it seems that forest fires are more intense in the Prairies compared to other parts of Canada.
We now know that there is a science for fire weather prediction modelling, and there is the possibility to integrate metrics, factors and drivers and have a modicum of predictability within the fire system. What are we doing? What are our universities and scientists doing for Canada in this aspect?
Mr. Guilbeault: In terms of modelling, I would be happy to provide this committee with a list of how the modelling has evolved at Environment and Climate Change Canada over the last few years, specifically when it comes to — perhaps it’s Environment and Climate Change Canada and Natural Resources Canada, because both departments are very involved in that.
You may know that we will be launching satellites that will be dedicated to forest fire detection. One of the challenges with forest fires is that a fire can start, but if there is no one to see it because no one is there, then it can take some time before humans are made aware of it. Those satellites’ mission would essentially be to detect fires when they start using artificial intelligence. I’m not a climate change modeller, but I would be happy to provide the committee with this.
Senator Galvez: I read that out of the 52 factors that satellites measure, 23 are for environmental reasons and concerns, but Canada has to rent the services of American satellites. Are you saying we now have our own satellites?
Mr. Guilbeault: We don’t have them yet. Don’t quote me on this. I believe that those satellites will be launched in 2028. We’ve passed the orders, they’re being built and they will be launched soon.
Senator Galvez: Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: Minister Guilbeault, how will the government ensure transparency and public consultation in development of the new bylaws related to the land use in Jasper? We did discuss some of the challenges with the Indigenous peoples and the communities. I’m curious: Could these amendments set a precedent for other national parks in Canada? We are faced more and more with these challenges going forward. We’ve discussed the numerous fires taking place across the country.
Mr. Guilbeault: As Mr. Campbell said earlier, the management plan of the Town of Banff has to be tabled and approved in Parliament. It would be the same for Jasper. As I said earlier, those two towns are in a very unique situation. We have a number of towns that are close to national parks, but they’re not in a national park per se.
Basically, what we’re doing with this bill is bringing Jasper on par with what is already being done for Banff and has been done — as Senator Sorensen would know — for many years.
[Translation]
The Chair: I want to thank you, Minister, and your team for joining us. We greatly appreciate your presence. We asked good questions and received good answers. Thank you.
For our second panel, we welcome by videoconference the following officials from the municipality of Jasper: Richard Ireland, Mayor; and Bill Given, Chief Administrative Officer, Jasper Recovery Coordination Centre. We’re also joined by Paul Butler, Executive Director of the Jasper Park Chamber of Commerce; and Scott Fash, Chief Executive Officer of the Building Industry and Land Development Association, or BILD, Alberta.
[English]
Thank you for being with us, and welcome. Five minutes have been reserved for your opening remarks. The floor is yours, Mayor Ireland, followed by Mr. Given, Mr. Butler and Mr. Fash.
Richard Ireland, Mayor, Municipality of Jasper: Honourable senators, thank you for this opportunity. I speak from Jasper National Park, located on Treaty 6 and 8 territories, as well as the traditional lands of the Anishinabe, Aseniwuche Winewak, Dene-zaa, Nêhiyawak, Secwépemc, Stoney Nakoda, Mountain Métis and Métis.
Long before the establishment of Jasper Forest Park in 1907, Indigenous and Métis peoples lived and made their home on these lands. As the government of the day deemed the Indigenous presence and way of life incompatible with the new national park, they were actively displaced and removed.
As we discuss Bill C-76 today, I am respectful of the need to acknowledge Indigenous peoples’ connection to this land — a connection which enriches our understanding and our community.
Today, we address the implications of Bill C-76 as it relates to the transfer of planning and development authorities from Parks Canada to the Municipality of Jasper. While this bill is enabling legislation, its import goes far beyond the merely procedural; it signifies a pivotal moment in our community’s development, in our future and in our continually evolving relationships with Parks Canada and with Indigenous peoples.
The transfer of authorities enabled by these amendments presents an extraordinary opportunity for advancement and innovation within the small, defined and legislated footprint of the Municipality of Jasper. It allows us to manage and redevelop local spaces and places in a way that is more responsive to and better reflects and serves the needs of our residents, while continuing to honour our environmental obligations.
This legislation is not confined to land use planning and development and the rebuilding of destroyed physical structures; it is about creating opportunities for inspired, sustainable development and the rebuilding of a re-energized, engaged, visionary community in a manner which will benefit residents, visitors and our national park for generations to come.
A crucial aspect of our community’s future will be our commitment to fostering engagement with Indigenous communities. We recognize that the voices of the original stewards of this land will be integral to effective planning processes. As we move forward, it will be imperative to ensure that this land is used in a manner that respects traditional knowledge and wisdom. Bill C-76 will foster these important relationships and will help create a framework for ongoing collaboration, providing an opportunity to build upon diverse perspectives and shared values of stewardship and respect for the land.
Significant community engagement was undertaken in relation to this bill. One area in which a large majority of participants agreed is that Jasper has a unique character as an authentic small mountain town. Participants in public engagement sessions agreed that this distinguishing sense of place should be protected and preserved and that the existing land use plans and policies affecting such a uniquely authentic park community need to be revised and updated to reflect that stature.
The community of Jasper is committed to honouring and preserving our history and our small-town authenticity, and committed to remaining vigilant against overdevelopment, over-commercialization and over-tourism.
We are a community intent on creating welcoming and inclusive spaces which reflect the diverse voices of our community and of our Indigenous partners, ensuring that everyone has a role in shaping our future.
The land at the heart of this discussion is not just a resource; it is a canvas to capture our collective dreams. As it has been since time immemorial, Jasper can be a travelling route, a meeting place, a place for gathering, for learning and for enjoying the natural beauty of our mountain landscape and, for those so fortunate to call Jasper home, a place for living. To realize that vision, we must work together — government, community, Indigenous leaders and visitors alike.
The transfer of land use planning and development authorities to the municipality represents an exciting and essential development for Jasper. It is an opportunity to build a more inclusive, sustainable, vibrant and democratic community to afford the residents of Jasper both the rights and the obligations enjoyed by Canadians across this great nation.
I urge the members of the Senate to support this bill. Together with other orders of government, Indigenous partners and others, we can ensure that these lands serve both the space and as a foundation for a legacy of respect, partnership, prosperity and community. Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to your questions.
The Chair: Thank you, Mayor Ireland. Mr. Given, the floor is yours.
Bill Given, Chief Administrative Officer, Jasper Recovery Coordination Centre, Municipality of Jasper: Good evening, esteemed members of the Senate. It is also my pleasure to be joining you today from the Municipality of Jasper. I am here this evening to speak from my perspective as the Chief Administrative Officer of the municipality on Bill C-76 and the bill’s connection to both the fundamentals of good governance and our community’s recovery from the devastating Jasper Wildfire Complex.
This legislation is indeed a vital step forward for Jasper, enabling us to manage the townsite in a way that reflects our community’s shared values and goals while also honouring the special responsibilities arising from our location within a national park and World Heritage Site.
As you are all well aware, of the communities defined as a “park community” under the Canada National Parks Act, only two — Banff and Jasper — are municipalities with democratically elected local councils. And of the two municipalities with elected councils, only Jasper is currently prevented from having any direct role in the delivery of land use planning and development authorities.
Moving this legislation forward creates a path for residents of Jasper to finally have a direct voice in matters that impact them through their locally elected and locally accountable representatives.
As you may know, the wildfire caused a devastating loss of property — 90% of which were homes representing approximately 820 housing units in total lost. Jasper’s pre-existing housing deficit notwithstanding, this loss was felt deeply throughout our community, and as we rebuild, we have the opportunity to rethink our approach to land use planning and development. We had been discussing increasing the municipality’s role with Parks Canada for several years pre-fire, and the enabling language within Bill C-76 is required now more than ever to support Jasper’s efforts to rebuild and recover.
Speaking of recovery, I want to take this opportunity to highlight the ongoing collaborative efforts between the municipality and Parks Canada following the end of the state of local emergency in September.
Modelled on the successful unified command approach where the municipality and Parks Canada jointly led the response to the initial incident, we have formed the Jasper Recovery Coordination Centre, also known as the JRCC. The JRCC is comprised of both municipal and Parks Canada resources — again, working under shared leadership — and has become a vital hub for collaboration and action in our community’s recovery.
The JRCC works closely with the Government of Alberta and local organizations via working groups established to focus on the following areas: housing, social recovery, economic recovery, infrastructure and rebuilding.
The JRCC team has worked to coordinate and enable the delivery of essential services, from mental health supports to housing assistance. By working together, we have enhanced our capacity to effectively respond to those in need.
Bill C-76 will further support these efforts, allowing us to respond quickly to the needs of our community today in the context of rebuilding, while also ensuring that Jasper residents have an active voice in the decisions that will shape their future.
The municipality remains committed to enabling a recovery that sees Jasper emerge as a more resilient, sustainable and equitable community.
In closing, I urge the Senate to support Bill C-76, recognizing its potential to transform our community, support our wildfire recovery and ensure our future resilience.
Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.
The Chair: Thank you. Mr. Butler, the floor is yours.
Paul Butler, Executive Director, Jasper Park Chamber of Commerce: Good evening, and thank you for providing this opportunity to speak with you.
Jasper is a critical component of Canada’s tourism industry. The visitor economy in Jasper supports the national parks system across the country. The iconic Canadian Rocky Mountain Parks, a World Heritage Site, is a renowned international visitor attraction and a critical economic driver in Canada. Jasper, in turn, is a critical visitor centre and driver within that system.
But since the fire, estimates of daily economic losses in Jasper are as high as $4.5 million per day. That represents jobs and the livelihood of my friends and neighbours. My organization is deeply concerned with the economic and social health of our community. Over 75% of Jasper’s annual tax requisition is contributed by the business sector. My point in mentioning this is to emphasize the disproportionate economic impact of the loss of businesses to the wildfire and the crushing loss of the tourist trade, which we’re experiencing now and which we expect to persist for years to come. In pointing this out, I do not at all mean to diminish the crushing personal losses experienced by residents.
I appreciate that fast-tracking this change is motivated by a genuine desire to help our community rebuild, and we’re grateful for that. As you’re aware, this change has been in the works since 2022. In that sense, this change comes as no surprise. The surprise, however, to me and my colleagues has been somewhat in the timing. The narrative surrounding the introduction of legislation suggests this change will propel our rebuild forward, driving expediency and efficiency. But my reaction and that of my colleagues when we heard the news was, I would say, more tempered.
The reaction was “What, now?” Just as we begin this crucial and vital rebuild imposed on us by tragedy, we’re now expected to navigate a complex transition of authorities involving three levels of government and three levels of bureaucracy. This legislation — as has been pointed out — is the first step in what will be a lengthy, multi-stage process. Following this first enabling step, several much longer strides must be taken. Changes are needed to development regulations. We need a new management plan, a new government agreement between the town and Parks Canada, new provincial legislation and public consultation along the way. If we have to wait or wade through this transition process and formalize the needed changes before we can rebuild, I fear the consequent economic and social damage may dwarf the direct impact of the fire.
For this to work, we need a couple of things to happen. We need immediate and unprecedented collaboration and cooperation between Parks Canada and our municipal government. We need to reverse the usual process, where regulatory change would first be planned and legislated and then finally implemented. In fact, we need to implement first and formalize later. We need to act now, prescribe, describe and delineate later. We need to put the horse before the cart.
Second, equally critically, we need commitment from the federal government to fund and resource this transition and to fund and resource the rebuild — not just the rebuild of the park’s infrastructure, but we also need the federal government to do their part in rebuilding the town. The town is the visitor service centre for the park, and Parks Canada needs to share in the responsibility for rebuilding it.
Please do not allow this legislative change to be a reason to step back from your responsibility to our community. Parks Canada will continue to hold development authority in Jasper in the immediate future, and we need the federal government to continue to resource that authority. Please don’t leave us hanging.
Most importantly, I want to draw attention to a critical and pressing need. We need near-term housing for workers in the tourism industry. Thus far, we’ve seen little to no help in this respect, and we see none on the horizon. Businesses already reeling from the shock of the fire cannot possibly afford to build the near-term housing necessary to save our visitor economy from collapse. Right now, we’re facing the very real possibility of essentially no winter tourism season because there’s nowhere for staff to live. That would be tragic and a crippling outcome.
If the will is there, as well as the commitment to action, the sense of urgency and the financial support, I hope that five years from now, we will look back on this bill as having been a driver toward success. Thank you for hearing me this evening.
The Chair: Mr. Fash, the floor is yours.
Scott Fash, Chief Executive Officer, Building Industry and Land Development Association (BILD) Alberta: Hi, honourable senators. Thank you for having me. I’m the Chief Executive Officer for the Building Industry and Land Development Association, or BILD, Alberta. I’m also a registered professional planner and a member of the Canadian Institute of Planners, or CIP. I join you today from Edmonton, located on Treaty 6 territory, which is a traditional gathering place for diverse Indigenous peoples, including the Cree, Blackfoot, Métis, Nakota Sioux, Iroquois, Dene, Ojibway and Inuit.
BILD Alberta represents approximately 1,300 member companies involved in home building, land development, renovation, trades and everything in between. Our members will likely be heavily engaged in the substantial rebuild efforts required in the months to come. I was with the organization during the Fort McMurray rebuilds, so I was able to see some of the challenges that all levels of government faced from the outside. I would say that it’s critical that all levels of government send out information to residents on how to vet and contract builders. In both the Slave Lake and Fort McMurray fires, unfortunately, fraud was all too common. You would get individuals who promised to rebuild your home for a fraction of the cost, only to take deposits and disappear. Thankfully, there’s a more robust licensing regime in Alberta on both the builder side and contractor side, along with other tools that residents can use. We are happy to support all levels of government in preparing information for residents.
For the rebuild, we anticipate the logistical challenges associated with this to dwarf anything we’ve seen before properly in Canada, specifically in Alberta. Jasper’s remote location means that the majority of builders, developers, trades, suppliers and materials are all going to be coming from Edmonton or likely Grande Prairie and probably some from Calgary and Red Deer as well. That’s more than a four-hour drive away.
For any individual home that’s going to be built, it will typically require upward of 100 individuals involved in the construction of it. Logistics are going to be critical for any effort to have a timely and cost-effective rebuild.
In doing that, it’s going to be really important to plan and schedule trades to arrive and undertake work on multiple job sites concurrently. For example, with proper scheduling, crew pouring foundations can travel to Jasper with their materials and equipment, stay in temporary housing and work for one to two weeks pouring 10 to 20 foundations during that time versus travelling for a day or two and only pouring one to two foundations at significantly higher costs.
That same approach needs to be replicated dozens of times across multiple trades for this rebuild to be done in a timely, cost-effective way. If we have delays in approvals and inspections, coordinating schedules will be difficult, if not altogether impossible. We think Bill C-76 represents an important step in addressing one of the key barriers to that rebuild, which is moving toward a simplified and flexible regulatory and approval framework. That will be critical to support the coordination of trades, suppliers and the overall construction schedules.
How these requirements are developed in the subsequent months is going to be crucial in determining the following: first, which companies will be interested or able to offer their services in the rebuild; second, how quickly the approvals of the construction can occur; and third, how expensive it’s going to be.
At a high level, we think it will be important to simplify the zoning in the affected areas — there are currently seven residential zones — provide greater flexibility for the number of secondary suites permitted on individual properties; determine whether additional density will be permitted as part of the redevelopment, including larger building footprints; and review the hundred-plus pages of architectural requirements and either simplify them or identify a different approach.
To build anything with speed and scale, the town will need to work directly with a group of builders and developers to determine some high-level character, design and potential material elements that are both cost-effective and replicable. As Mr. Given mentioned, over 800 housing units need to be rebuilt. They cannot all be custom-built, so we have to figure out a balance that is going to preserve and build upon the town’s character while allowing for quick construction.
I think the choice to implement the Alberta edition of the National Building Code is also going to be important, as it will enable more Alberta builders, trades and suppliers to participate. Just as importantly, this increases the pool of safety codes officers who will be available to undertake inspections. This will also allow groups like BILD Alberta, the Government of Alberta and other not-for-profits to support everybody involved through code implementation if there are clarifications or variances required.
We’re likely in the most important stage of the rebuild from a construction perspective, despite it being several months or more before we actually start pouring foundations. If we set up the right framework from a policy and regulatory standpoint, over the longer term, you will be enabling quicker approvals, more cost-effective construction and an overall faster rebuild. Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We will go directly to our questions.
Senator Sorensen: My question is for Mayor Ireland. Everybody seems to be in a different room. Mayor Ireland, it’s nice to see your face, and thank you for being here this evening.
I don’t have to tell you that you have an almost Herculean task ahead of you as you look to rebuild and also keep the morale of your community afloat. It was really great to hear your testimony. It was full of, I would say, optimism and a sense of opportunity to consciously think about how you want to rebuild. That was really wonderful to hear.
Can you explain to the committee exactly how passing this bill will support the town of Jasper as it rebuilds? I’m going to ask you to go down to about five feet. I was asked in the chamber today for a very specific example of what it would look like if you were building a housing complex a year ago — how that would happen and what decisions would be in your hands — and what it potentially would look like not too far in the future? What would be the difference for the town of Jasper with a case study specific?
Mr. Ireland: Thank you, Senator Sorensen, and thank you for your earlier speech in the Red Chamber today, which I was fortunate to listen to.
The specifics for any particular application are hard to know, but if we dig down, what this legislation will do is set the stage for a more localized, immediate response to variances in development applications. Under the current system, Parks Canada is the land management authority. Development permits are put there, and they go through a process that is based on national — not local — legislation that applies at the local level. We want to look at a number of factors, including something as simple as changing out the requirement in one area of town to have cedar shakes on your roof. That is something that is in the zoning requirements now at the federal level. It has to change. It is now recognized as bad practice to have cedar shakes in a forested community. We would like the opportunity to switch that up immediately.
As you have heard through the Parks Canada representatives, we are working collaboratively with them, and we might be able to influence that change at the national level, but, as we’ve also heard, they have national consultation requirements that we would not have under municipal legislation at the provincial level if we were to have control through this legislation.
I don’t suggest that the legislation, in and of itself, changes things. It is enabling legislation. It sets the stage for redeveloping our agreement for local government with Parks Canada, and we’re well under way with that. Then we take that, ultimately, to the Province of Alberta and get an order-in-council to change our status as a specialized municipality in the Province of Alberta, which currently does not have access to Part 17 of our Municipal Government Act, which is the planning and development section.
This legislation is a necessary prerequisite to get us on that path to have local decision making relevant to our local circumstances that can be responsive to all of the needs of our community as they become known to us. I hope, senator, that this gives you the five-foot depth that you’re looking for. I can’t imagine every circumstance this might apply to, but it applies from the micro level up to the macro level of Bill C-76.
Senator Sorensen: Thank you.
Senator Arnot: Thank you, Mayor Ireland, and thank you to all of the panellists. We’ve certainly heard that you have a daunting task ahead of you.
I have a fairly straightforward question, which is this: Does the Municipality of Jasper have the additional supports and resources in place to tackle this tremendous task? You have an extraordinary situation. You have expanded scope to create a community planning and land use and development office in the municipality. What are the resources that have been identified? What’s the scale of those resources? Are you confident that the scale of resources will be available to you in the short term and medium term?
Mr. Ireland: I can start on that, and then I will pass it off to Mr. Given.
We have been requested by administration to start ramping up, and we have already done that. Even prior to the introduction of this legislation, we were staffing up with the anticipation that if this bill did not come forward, we would have those resources available to lend to Parks Canada because we understand the nature of the surge that is coming in development applications.
But I will turn it over to Mr. Given, who can give more detail with respect to our resourcing at this stage.
Mr. Given: Thanks, Your Worship. The municipality has already hired a director of urban design and standards, or a director of planning and development. We’ve hired two planners, and we are in the process of hiring two more. We have developed a strategy for surge capacity development permitting utilizing both the Municipality of Jasper and Parks Canada resources. We also have the ability to call on development permitting resources from across the province. This has happened in previous wildfire situations like Slave Lake and Wood Buffalo, where development permitting specialists from other municipalities can support one of their colleagues.
We’ve also brought to the table an approach to digitize the building permit application process, and we’re working with Parks Canada and the Government of Alberta on implementing the system. We don’t have any concern about the level of resourcing because we’re working in a coordinated fashion with Parks Canada, and because we’re able to bring to bear our municipal colleagues from across the province.
Senator Arnot: I’m happy with that answer.
Senator Galvez: Thank you so much, Mayor Ireland and our other panellists, for being here and answering our questions.
I am concerned about the distribution of the costs. We heard from Minister Guilbeault that there are conversations with insurance companies. Can you tell us if the insurance companies recognize the reconstruction costs for the businesses and houses? Are they saying that they will cover that, while respecting the new building codes and not repeating the same old habits of having cedar shakes, for example?
Mr. Ireland: Thank you for that question. I cannot speak on behalf of insurance companies. I can tell you that throughout the events since the start of the wildfire, we have been in close collaboration with representatives of the Insurance Bureau of Canada.
Most of the residential properties will be subject to insurance. Some will have limits on their insurance; others will have guaranteed replacement costs. My understanding is that in those cases, residential losses can be rebuilt at whatever the cost happens to be, subject to the rules that existed at that time. Whatever the zoning was at that time, if you had a single-family residence, that’s what you would be able to rebuild subject to your insurance coverage.
We are aware that there are some places that are underinsured, and there are very few places that are uninsured. Right now, that matter is still undetermined.
With respect to cleanup costs, we know that the Red Cross is going to step in and assist those uninsured properties with debris removal, but, beyond that, they will be at a loss, and we’re not sure what can happen with respect to that. It will depend first on insurance policies, but, from our perspective, no government agency has offered money to compensate what would have been insurable losses. If you had the opportunity on the market to have insurance for a loss, then that falls on the property owner. Subject to what I mentioned about the Red Cross, that is our current understanding of the situation.
Senator Galvez: I have the same question for Mr. Butler from the Jasper Park Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Butler: Thank you for the question. My understanding of the state of insurance is much the same as Mr. Ireland’s understanding, so I don’t have a lot to add there. Commercial property owners’ policies will vary to some extent. Some will be fully insured for a complete rebuild, and others will have limits and ceilings.
Another insurance that is important to think about is business interruption insurance, which would supplant lost income for businesses. Sadly, that sort of insurance is extremely expensive. Many, if not most, small businesses can’t really afford that, and I think it would be fair to say that when small businesses have considered insurance, particularly business interruption, they’re really thinking about small-scale interruptions to their business, and no one thought of this.
I certainly have a great deal of concern with respect to business interruption insurance and the loss of income for the small businesses.
Senator Galvez: Thank you so much for your answer. The reason I’m asking this is because it’s well known that in many other places where disaster happens, there is abuse. The insurance company doesn’t cover the damage, so people with big capital come in. The objectives that the mayor announced regarding the principles of sustainability, equitability and this and that will unfortunately not be there because of the lack of funds. They call them vulture people. It happened in Lac-Mégantic. It happens all the time.
[Translation]
Senator Verner: Mayor, earlier today, the minister appeared with officials to answer our questions regarding Bill C-76. He repeatedly said that he often spoke with you. I asked him about this and he suggested that I ask you the same question.
Last week, the Alberta government announced $149 million in funding to help rebuild Jasper. Have you spoken with the minister about obtaining this type of funding? It may be less or more than that, but you could at least receive some financial assistance for the disaster’s widespread damage and many ramifications for your communities and businesses.
[English]
Mr. Ireland: Thank you very much for that question. The reality is that the $149 million that was announced is the funding under the disaster relief program. That is a program for which we are eligible, but, at the highest level, that is a cost shared between the province and the federal government. Mr. Given may be able to speak to the limits where that change happens.
Of the $149 million, that is based on preliminary estimates, I might say, that were put forward in early August when we were assessing our need. About one third of that amount covers the initial estimates for our local needs, so it’s about $50 million. Another third of that amount is the replacement cost for additional provincial government expenses to respond to the wildfire, and the last third is for a contingency recognizing that each of us will have additional claims.
Of it all right now, we are at a state where, since August, we have come up with a new number of about $73 million, which will be encompassed within that $149 million. The contribution levels are now 90% from the fund and 10% from the municipality, which is certainly an issue with us. We won’t have $7.3 million extra to spend on this, and we’ve opened those discussions with the province. But I will say that at some level of support, the federal government also contributes to that fund.
We don’t have a separate fund from the minister or from the Government of Canada. That is something we may still look for, but that is not encompassed in those funds that have been announced.
I would invite Mr. Given to provide better detail with respect to the distribution of that disaster relief program between the federal government and the provincial government.
Mr. Given: Sure, Your Worship. The program referenced by His Worship is the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements, which is a federal government program that supports all provinces and territories with extraordinary events like this. There is a published scale where, essentially, the federal government takes an increasing share of the cost of recovery and the response. The support publicized by Alberta is under that shared provincial-federal responsibility, and certainly the size of that support is going to be increasing the federal share. There is not a separate federal program directly supporting Jasper as a municipality.
Senator Loffreda: Welcome to all our panellists. Thank you for being here.
Mayor Ireland, welcome and thank you for joining us. I appreciate your optimism. Having the right mindset is indeed a significant part of the challenge, so congratulations for that and good luck.
You mentioned that you will ensure everybody plays a role in shaping Jasper’s future. Can you elaborate on how the town plans to guarantee that local businesses and residents have a voice in the development of the new land use bylaws, the reconstruction and the rebuilding?
Mr. Ireland: Again, very happy for the question, senator.
Jasper longs to be like other municipalities across the country that exercise accountable local government. For the development of land use bylaws, which will come, this will be something in respect to which the Municipality of Jasper will be subject to the provincial laws mandating public hearings in terms of the proposed bylaw. The entire process will unfold in the public realm, both at public hearings and in our council chambers from where I speak to you today.
The difference here is that under the current regime, with Parks Canada in charge of land use planning and development, including setting what is effectively our land use bylaw, that happens at an administrative-bureaucratic level, which is not available and accessible to the public. The first opportunity for inclusion and engagement is the fact that our processes are, by legislation, required to be open and public, and we will happily adhere to that to ensure all parties who wish to engage in the development of those documents are present. We must do so in an accountable, open and transparent fashion, and, of course, we’re committed to that.
Senator Loffreda: Mr. Butler, I would like to hear additional commentary. How does the Jasper Park Chamber of Commerce plan to support businesses that may be impacted by new zoning or signage regulations? What opportunities for business growth do you foresee with the local government gaining more land use authority?
Mr. Butler: Thank you for the question. Our office is also in the early stages of rebuilding, and we are, to be frank, under-resourced. We are working hard to look for ways to assist our members in dealing with rebuilding. We have been assisting and will continue to partner with other organizations to assist our members and businesses in Jasper to access funding that may be available at the provincial and federal level. Some of that funding, for example, may be available through Prairies Economic Development Canada, or PrairiesCan, which is the federal organization — the federal arm — that funds Community Futures organizations.
We stand ready and will work hand in hand with the municipal government and with the Jasper council to advocate for businesses in Jasper. We have stated our readiness and willingness to assist. We will be sitting on a committee which is being struck by council to deal with the many questions that will come as they arise, and we and other business organizations in Jasper will hold seats on that organization. We will help where we can.
The Chair: Let me thank all of you for your contribution to this debate. We certainly obtained a much better understanding of your challenges, and they are significant, I must admit. Like my colleague said, you have to keep your chin up and plow away and get it done. I wish you all the luck. Again, thank you for being with us this evening and good luck.
Senator McCallum, did you have a question? There’s one more question. Sorry about that.
Senator McCallum: Thank you for your presentations. I wanted to go back to the insurance that was spoken about or questioned. Who is responsible for staff housing in Jasper, and how many staff were affected by the fire? Did these accommodations for staff have insurance? How much will the lack of insurance add to the cost of recovery? Are there any other areas that we haven’t talked about which may possibly cause us concerns?
Mr. Ireland: Thank you, senator. I’m happy to take a first stab at that question. Others might want to weigh in as well.
The question of staff is a difficult piece of terminology. In one sense, everybody in town is staff for somebody. Of the over 800 residential units that were lost, a large number of those would be people working in the service industry in Jasper, but others working for themselves. Many were single-family residences or duplexes; some were apartment buildings. Some may have been buildings owned by particular businesses in which they housed their employees, so it’s staff accommodation in a different sense.
For the most part, my understanding is that those residential units will have insurance, with the exceptions that I noted. For some in a mobile home district, for example — where we lost perhaps 30 residential units — they will face underinsurance limits, where they have to replace a destroyed trailer, and it will have a limit of insurance on it; a trailer now would be much more expensive. So that will certainly be challenging for those people.
As I said, there are a few properties that, unfortunately, were underinsured, and that is a different problem of a different scale. But most of the properties will have, I hope, adequate insurance — guaranteed replacement cost — to replace those residential units.
You asked about numbers. It’s only an estimate, but we think roughly 2,000 people of a population of about 4,700 are without homes at this time, so it is significant. It is more than 30% of structures that equates to the number of people out.
I’m not sure that I’ve got all of that. You had a number of sub-questions tucked in there, but the insurance question is certainly a major consideration for residents and property owners as we move forward. If others have more to contribute, I turn the floor to them.
Mr. Given: Your Worship, I might add there is one significant employer in our community who is self-insured and lost significant staff accommodation, and that’s Parks Canada. As a federal agency, my understanding is that Parks Canada is self-insured under the federal government. The ability to restart Jasper National Park will require Parks Canada to be able to replace their staff accommodation. His Worship identified a lot of the private businesses. Obviously, their coverage for their properties that they own would be a matter of commercial arrangement; it’s not so for Parks Canada and their staff accommodation.
Parks Canada, both inside the townsite and outside the townsite, lost a significant number of staff accommodation units. That will have a direct impact on our ability to restart the community and fully operate it to its full commercial capacity and visitor capacity.
The Chair: Thank you again for your presentations and for being with us tonight.
[Translation]
Honourable senators, clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-76 is scheduled for Thursday, October 3, 2024.
Committee members who would like to move an amendment are asked to contact the adviser at the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel to ensure that any amendment is drafted in the appropriate format and in both official languages.
(The committee adjourned.)