THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 7, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 3 p.m. [ET] to study Supplementary Estimates (A) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023.
Senator Percy Mockler (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, before we begin, I’d like to remind senators and witnesses to please keep your microphones muted at all times unless recognized by name by the chair.
[Translation]
If you experience any technical challenges, particularly in relation to interpretation, please signal this to the chair or the clerk, and we will work to resolve the issue. If you experience other technical challenges, please contact the ISD Service Desk with the technical assistance number provided.
[English]
The use of online platforms does not guarantee speech privacy or that eavesdropping won’t be conducted. As such, while conducting committee meetings, all participants should be aware of such limitations and restrict the possibility of disclosure of sensitive, private and privileged Senate information. Participants should know to do so in a private area and to be mindful of their surroundings.
We will now begin, honourable senators, with the main portion of our meeting.
[Translation]
I wish to welcome all the senators, as well as the viewers across the country who are watching us on sencanada.ca.
[English]
My name is Senator Percy Mockler, senator from New Brunswick and Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. I would now like to introduce the members of the National Finance Committee who are participating in this meeting: Senator Boehm, Senator Dagenais, Senator Duncan, Senator Forest, Senator Moncion, Senator Gerba, Senator Gignac, Senator Loffreda, Senator Marshall, Senator Pate and Senator Richards.
This afternoon, honourable senators, we will continue our study of the expenditures set out in Supplementary Estimates (A) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023, which was referred to this committee on June 1, 2022, by the Senate of Canada.
Honourable senators, today we have the pleasure of welcoming five departments. An addition was brought forward just lately. We have the Department of Indigenous Services, the Public Health Agency of Canada, the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority and also the Department of National Defence.
Honourable senators, thank you for participating again in this process so that we can bring forward transparency, accountability, predictability and reliability of the finances of Canada.
Thank you to all for accepting our invitation to appear in front of the National Finance Committee.
I understand the following public servants will be making short opening remarks on behalf of their departments respectively. The order will be the following: Mr. Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, from Indigenous Services Canada; Mr. Martin Krumins, Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Management Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada; Ms. Mauricette Howlett, Director General, Programs, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Public Safety Canada; Ms. Cheri Crosby, Assistant Deputy Minister (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence; and Ms. Nancy Fitchett, Vice President, Corporate Affairs and Chief Financial Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority.
Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (A) for Indigenous Services Canada. I would like to begin by acknowledging that I am joining you today from Amiskwaciy-Wâskahikan Treaty 6 territory, here in Edmonton, Alberta.
With me are Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch; Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations; Kelley Blanchette, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development; Catherine Lappe, Assistant Deputy Minister, Child and Family Services; and David Peckham, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs.
[Translation]
Let me first provide you with an update on the status of the COVID-19 pandemic activity across Indigenous communities. Since January 2022, the rate of reported active cases has gone down, plateaued, increased and has decreased again to 547 known active cases, which brings the confirmed cases to 109,086 as of June 2, 2022. Fortunately, 107,809 have recovered, but 730 have sadly lost their lives.
A total of 1,165,037 COVID-19 vaccine doses have been administered in individuals living in First Nations, Inuit and territorial communities. Over 89% of individuals aged 12 and over have received a second dose and over 38% have received a third dose. Over 52% of children aged 5 to 11 have received at least one dose.
COVID-19 is still having a very significant impact on Indigenous communities, and our department remains available to provide support in dealing with any new outbreaks of COVID-19 and assist in prevention and response efforts.
[English]
COVID-19 exposed challenges in accessing and providing health care, economic supports to Indigenous communities and businesses and the delivery of ongoing programs and support for Indigenous individuals and communities. It highlighted the importance of addressing the fundamental issue of closing socio-economic gaps.
Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC, has continued to shape the composition of services with Indigenous partners towards the goal of Indigenous-led design, delivery and control of services. This includes providing funding for spaces necessary for the assessment, triage and isolation of First Nations community members, as well as accommodation spaces for visiting health care professionals during the pandemic. These investments cover over 1,200 projects from the beginning of the pandemic to June 6, 2022.
There was a conclusion and signing of eight regional education agreements to support approximately 22,000 students. These agreements allow First Nations to lead the process of administering their own schools using a holistic approach that meets the learning and cultural needs of their students. The delivery of $332.8 million in funding to partially offset declines in own source revenues so that First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities could continue to provide important community programs and services to their citizens; funding for Métis micro-businesses and economic recovery through the Indigenous Community Business Fund and, as of December 31, 2021, 17,432 First Nations homes on reserves have been built or repaired; and, as of May 17, 2022, 132 long-term drinking water advisories have been lifted from public systems on reserve.
[Translation]
This past year also highlighted these disadvantages with the discovery of unmarked graves and burial sites near former residential schools. These continued discoveries underscore that we must move faster on the path of reconciliation with First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. I will now turn to the topic of today’s meeting, the presentation of Indigenous Services Canada’s Supplementary Estimates (A), 2022-23.
Indigenous Services Canada’s 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (A) are showing a net increase of $2.2 billion, which will bring the total authorities for 2022-23 to over $41.8 billion. The $2.2 billion is mainly composed of an increase of $1 billion in vote 1, operating expenditures, and $1.2 billion in vote 10, grants and contributions.
The following are the main key initiatives of these supplementary estimates: $2.1 billion for costs related to compensation and for the reforms to the First Nations Child and Family Services, FNCFS, and Jordan’s Principle programs; $99.8 million to address the ongoing legacy of Indian residential schools. The funding will support First Nations in undertaking the assessment, demolition, rehabilitation and replacement of residential school buildings and sites on reserve lands, as well as supporting them with the required time to engage with community members to come to a decision regarding the future of an existing residential school building or site on reserve.
[English]
Mr. Chair, in the last two years, COVID-19 has presented a significant and prolonged challenge for Indigenous communities. The pandemic has highlighted the importance of delivering on our department’s core mandate. We will continue to work to improve access to high-quality services for First Nations, Inuit and Métis, to support self-determination and Indigenous-led service delivery and to address the fundamental issue of closing socio-economic gaps.
I look forward to discussing any aspects of these estimates with you and welcome your questions regarding my presentation. Meegwetch, qujannamiik, marsee, thank you.
The Chair: Thank you. Mr. Krumins, the floor is yours.
Martin Krumins, Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Management Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you. Honourable senators, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you about the 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (A) for the Public Health Agency of Canada as we continue to play a crucial role in the Government of Canada’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Overall, the Public Health Agency of Canada is seeking an increase of just over $1.5 billion. This increase would bring the agency’s total proposed authorities for 2022-23 to just over $10 billion. This increase consists of $1.4 billion in operating funding, $850,000 in capital funding and $95.5 million in grants and contributions funding.
The majority of the proposed increase comes from funding that is being reprofiled from the previous fiscal year, namely: a little more than $1.4 billion for the procurement of COVID-19 therapeutics; $102.5 million for the Sero-Surveillance Consortium; $9.6 million for the pan-Canadian Vaccine Injury Support Program; and $4.8 million for medical countermeasures, but more precisely, the Immunization Partnership Fund.
I will take a few minutes to go over the highlights of the agency’s Supplementary Estimates (A) and how the agency will use the funds in the coming year.
First, we expect new antiviral COVID-19 therapies to be in high demand as we use them to make outpatient treatment easier. To address the immediate and critical need, the agency is reprofiling this money so that it can provide Canadians with equitable access to safe and effective therapeutics for the treatment of COVID-19. These therapeutics can help save lives and reduce the severity of COVID-19 infections, which, in turn, can reduce hospitalizations and lessen the burden on our health care system.
Next, the Public Health Agency of Canada is also reprofiling $102.5 million of funding to support existing studies as well as new projects recommended by the Canadian COVID-19 Immunity Task Force. The task force’s mandate is to mobilize a series of serological and vaccine surveillance studies to determine the extent of infection and immune response in the Canadian population. These studies provide valuable information on the status of COVID-19 seroprevalence in Canada. They also provide reliable estimates of potential immunity and vulnerabilities, and help to produce information on vaccine safety and efficacy. The knowledge we gain from these studies helps us respond to the evolving pandemic. It also supports decision making at all levels of government.
Further, the agency is reprofiling unspent funds from the previous fiscal year for the Vaccine Injury Support Program. This program provides financial support to people in Canada in the rare event that they experience a serious and permanent injury as a result of receiving a Health Canada-authorized vaccine administered in Canada.
The agency is seeking to reprofile $9.6 million of unspent funds for this initiative to ensure that those injured by vaccines have access to a fair and timely financial support mechanism. A total of $75 million in funding has been earmarked for the first five years of the program, and $9 million on an ongoing basis. The overall cost of the program will truly depend on the volume of claims and compensation awarded over time.
Finally, to allow the Immunization Partnership Fund the extra time needed to access funds and complete planned activities, the agency is reprofiling $4.8 million of funding from the previous fiscal year to this year. Doing this allows the program to continue supporting organizations to access necessary funding and complete their planned vaccine confidence and uptake promotion activities, all of which are essential to the agency’s pandemic response.
The Immunization Partnership Fund helps combat COVID vaccine hesitancy among priority populations and funds community-led projects to raise awareness and confidence in vaccines. It also helps provinces and territories to improve their electronic vaccination registries to address gaps in vaccine coverage rates, in particular for boosters and pediatric vaccines.
In conclusion, the COVID-19 pandemic is not over yet, and until it is, supporting the Government of Canada’s response will continue to be a top priority for the Public Health Agency of Canada.
Thank you again for this opportunity to speak about the work of the Public Health Agency of Canada. My colleagues and I will be pleased to answer your questions. Thank you.
[Translation]
Mauricette Howlett, Director General, Programs, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Public Safety Canada: Mr. Chair, honourable committee members, thank you for the invitation to join you today.
I want to begin by stating that I truly appreciate the committee’s studies on matters related to keeping Canadians safe, including its ongoing support to provinces and territories as they recover from large-scale natural disasters.
I am pleased to address the 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (A) for the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements, DFAA.
The DFAA is a contribution program that was established in 1970 to assist provinces and territories when response and recovery costs for large-scale natural disasters exceed what they could reasonably be expected to bear on their own.
[English]
Following a disaster, a provincial or territorial government will design and administer their own disaster recovery program, deciding on the amounts and types of assistance that will be provided to those who have experienced losses.
Should the anticipated eligible response and recovery costs exceed the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements threshold for assistance, which is based on population, the jurisdiction can then formally seek financial assistance under the program.
Eligible expenses can include rescue operations, restoring public works and infrastructure to their pre-disaster condition, as well as replacing or repairing basic as well as essential personal property of individuals, small businesses and farmsteads.
Authority to provide financial assistance rests with the Governor-in-Council who may, on the recommendation of the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, approve an order-in-council declaring the disaster to be of concern to our government, and then authorizing the minister to provide financial assistance to the affected province or territory.
A province or territory has up to five years after the approval of the order-in-council to request the final payment. Advance or interim payments may also be requested within the five-year time frame to address the province or territory’s early financial needs.
All requests for reimbursement are processed following the receipt of information documenting provincial or territorial expenditures and a review by federal auditors.
Since the inception of the program, our government has contributed over $6.5 billion in post-disaster assistance to provinces and territories. 2022-23 Main Estimates for the program is $100 million. This has been supplemented by an additional $823.6 million from the $1.9 billion provisioned in the Budget 2021 exercise. This supplemental funding will be used to cover existing liabilities from previous disaster events.
A few examples of the payments that will be addressed this fiscal year with the additional $823 million include an interim payment to the Province of Quebec for the 2019 spring flood, an interim payment to the Province of Manitoba for the October 2019 storm and a final payment to Saskatchewan for their 2017 wildfires. A portion of the additional funding will also go towards the advance payment for the most recent disasters that have taken place in British Columbia.
Through the Economic and Fiscal Update 2021, the government has also provisioned $5 billion in 2021-22 for the federal share of additional payments to B.C. for their recovery costs under the program. The department is currently in the process of working with the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat to access this additional $5 billion.
It is unfortunate that extreme events like wildfires, floods, heat waves and winter storms are increasing in frequency as well as severity and continuing to interfere with the lives of Canadians, damaging infrastructure and, of course, disrupting supply chains. Public Safety Canada has launched a review of the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements to ensure that there’s an updated, sustainable system available to the provinces and territories for disaster recovery and for the safety and well-being of Canadians. The Honourable Bill Blair, President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Emergency Preparedness, has also appointed an advisory panel to review and make recommendations to update the program. The advisory panel is meeting virtually until September 2022, and will submit its findings to the minister in the fall of 2022. The findings will inform the program’s policy review.
I thank you very much for your time and look forward to your questions. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you.
Cheri Crosby, Assistant Deputy Minister (Finance) and Chief Financial Officer, Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces: Good afternoon, honourable senators and committee members.
[Translation]
Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to present the fiscal year 2022-2023 Supplementary Estimates (A) on behalf of the Department of National Defence.
[English]
I am joined by the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Lieutenant-General Allen and the Assistant Deputy Minister (Materiel), Troy Crosby. I have prepared a very brief statement. After this, my colleagues and I will be at your disposal to answer any questions you may have.
This year, the Department of National Defence is requesting $500 million through Supplementary Estimates (A) to cover the purchase of lethal and non-lethal support to Ukraine, as announced in Budget 2022. This request represents an increase of 1.9% of the original allocation for the 2022-23 fiscal year of $25.9 billion.
[Translation]
Supplementary Estimates (A) reflect a determined and comprehensive effort to allocate defence funding responsibly and appropriately across a broad spectrum of related activities during the fiscal year in support of identified departmental priorities.
In closing, my colleagues and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
[English]
Nancy Fitchett, Vice President, Corporate Affairs and Chief Financial Officer, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority: Good day, honourable senators. My name is Nancy Fitchett, Vice President of Corporate Affairs and Chief Financial Officer at the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, also known as CATSA. I am pleased to be here today with my colleague Kelsey MacTavish, Senior Director of Operations, to answer any questions you may have as it relates to our Supplementary Estimates (A). Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much for all your statements. We will now proceed to questions. I would like to tell the senators that you will have a maximum of six minutes each for the first round and a maximum of three minutes each for the second round. Therefore, please ask your question directly, and to the witnesses, please respond concisely. The clerk will inform me when the time is over by raising her hand.
[Translation]
I would also like to ask other witnesses who will be answering questions to introduce themselves, so that we can know exactly who answered the questions.
[English]
Senator Marshall: Thank you to all witnesses for being here. I’ll start off with a few short questions for Ms. Crosby in National Defence. These are general questions not related to the Ukraine operation, but they are areas that interest me.
As you know — you’ve appeared before the committee previously — it’s been a challenge obtaining information on your capital spending. But the Parliamentary Budget Officer released a report a couple of months ago that was very informative.
We knew from tracking your expenditures that you didn’t have capital spending to the same level as what you anticipated in your Strong, Secure, Engaged policy. It seems like the money is being pushed further into the future.
Are you going to update the Strong, Secure, Engaged policy? Also, you had prepared some sort of addendum. I think you updated in 2019 with a focus on capital spending. I’m interested in knowing whether you’re going to update those two documents.
Ms. Crosby: Thank you for that question, and you are absolutely right. We have been tracking and publicizing our results since the beginning of Strong, Secure, Engaged in 2016-17. The Fall Economic Statement 2020 gave us the opportunity to re-baseline. As we started implementing projects and programs, we were able to adjust schedules and timelines as we got further into the project. As announced in the Fall Economic Statement 2020, we did re-baseline our schedule and costing estimates.
As you may also know, we have the Defence Investment Plan, which was most recently published in 2019. This is a plan that’s published every three years following a technical update that’s approved by the Treasury Board. I’m happy to say that the next technical update to the investment plan has just been approved by Treasury Board. As a result, we intend to do a public version of the investment plan for public release in the fall of 2022. That plan will represent our next steps of investment and also the results that we’ve achieved so far for the next three years.
Senator Marshall: Thank you. The next question is rather technical, so I don’t expect you to have the answer there. But if you could send it in after the meeting.
On page 135 of Budget 2022, that chapter is focused on national defence. It says your department will spend $100 billion over the next three years. But page 91 of your departmental plan says you’ll spend $77 billion. There’s a difference there. Could you provide to the committee a reconciliation of what that difference is? Not a verbiage reconciliation; I’d like to see the numbers. Thank you very much.
I’ll move on to CATSA now. Ms. Fitchett, I was looking at your financial plan that’s on your organization’s website. I thought the numbers were very unusual in that the amount for the current year is $567 million, but it’s noticeable less than the $859 million last year and the $917 million the year before. Could you explain to us how that funding works? I travel a lot domestically with some international travel, and it’s now quite horrendous going through the screening process. With regard to your funding, I know you’re requesting $329 million. Did you wait too long to request the funding or did the government wait too long to provide it? Could you update us on how the funding works?
Ms. Fitchett: I’d be pleased to. CATSA has base funding, as noted in the Parliamentary Budget Officer’s report, of approximately $568 million in every fiscal year. That is not sufficient and has not been sufficient since approximately 2014. Every year, CATSA requests supplemental funding, typically through Supplementary Estimates (A). The corporate plan summary on our website — which I presume you were looking at — would have unfortunately reflected approved funding at the time the document was submitted, which would have been at the time only our base funding as supplementary funding for this fiscal year was in the process of being requested through Supplementary Estimates (A).
Senator Marshall: You’re being funded — is that part of the problem that you are experiencing now at all the airports that I go through? It seems like you gear up to $900 million, but then you are down to $567 million. What exactly is the problem at the airports?
Ms. Fitchett: The problem at the airports today, and specifically the busiest airports in Canada, relates to the labour market and the staffing of screening officer positions by our third-party screening contractors.
At this time, it is not a funding problem, provided that the Supplementary Estimates (A) are approved, of course.
Senator Marshall: Are you saying that if you get this $329 million, if you can get the staff, that funding will be sufficient?
Ms. Fitchett: Correct.
Senator Marshall: Can you just tell us a little bit more about the challenges of the staff? It just seems that a lot of the staff are inexperienced at the airport. Could you talk about the staff? Is there some sort of ongoing review of the process? It seems like different airports have different screening criteria. When you go through one airport, it is not the same as going through another. There is a different requirement.
Ms. Fitchett: I will pass that to Kelsey MacTavish, Senior Director, Operations.
Kelsey MacTavish, Senior Director, Operations, Canadian Air Transport Security Authority: Thank you very much, and good afternoon. I will address the first part of your question, senator, about inexperienced staff. As a result of the pandemic, we did see a significant number of screening personnel laid off during the pandemic period. But during our ramp-up phase, which began last spring, we did return more than 1,250 screening officers to these ranks, and concurrently, due to the staffing challenges that my colleague mentioned, have had to continue recruiting in this period.
There are a lot of screening officers who have been away, who have returned and new screening officers who are newly trained. I hope that answers the first part of your question.
With regard to screening criteria, we are regulated to follow certain requirements by Transport Canada, specifically. We have standard operating procedures that are in place to make sure that we meet these regulated requirements. The screening process is a layered one with baseline screening requirements as well as additional screening requirements that may vary the experience from visit to visit.
The only other thing that I will say is that we do have significant oversight programs in place, and it is one of our key functions to make sure that we’re delivering the screening in accordance with those regulated requirements.
Senator Marshall: I can tell you from experience, and I am travelling several times a week, that it is inconsistent when you go through different airports. There is an issue with inconsistency, there is a problem with your secondary screening and those two areas are causing a backlog.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: I thank the witnesses for being here. Ms. MacTavish mentioned there were 1,200 screening officers who were back. To verify, that’s 1,200 out of how many?
Ms. MacTavish: Thank you for your question, senator. I can tell you that, right now, out of about 6,800 screening officers in the system, 1,250 returned last year and about 1,750 could have returned.
Senator Forest: How much staff is estimated to be lacking? In other words, how many screening officers are needed to return to the initial number before the pandemic?
Ms. MacTavish: Before the pandemic, we had about 7,400 screening officers. We currently have 6,800, and recruitment is ongoing. As part of the envelope for the upcoming year, we are trying to recruit 1,000 screening officers through our screening providers.
Senator Forest: My next question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada officials and concerns the $1.4 billion for the procurement of additional therapeutics. What kind of therapeutics are we talking about?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Honourable senator, thank you for your question. These are therapeutics and antivirals to prevent infection of COVID-19. They comprise a multitude of products from various companies, including Pfizer and Merck. I would ask my colleague Joel Denis to provide the specifics regarding the nature of the pharmaceuticals.
Joel Denis, Acting Vice President, Public Health Agency of Canada: Thank you, Mr. Krumins. Mr. Krumins is right, these therapeutics are safe and effective medications that help both to prevent and treat infection. Some of these medications are given by intravenous infusion, and others are oral pills.
The therapeutics specifically for COVID-19 help the immune system more effectively respond to the virus, such as antiviral drugs. They also target specific parts of the virus to stop it from multiplying in the body.
There are two main types of therapeutics. One would be for hospitalized patients — these are individuals who would be very ill with COVID-19 — and other therapeutics are for mild to moderate illness to help reduce severe outcomes, such as hospitalization and death.
The second is for outpatients, such as for Paxlovid, and these relieve pressure on the Canadian health care system by allowing individuals to be treated outside the hospital setting.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: Do those medications have an expiry date?
Mr. Denis: Can you repeat the question?
Senator Forest: Do those medications have an expiry date? If so, what strategy has been implemented to let other countries have them before they expire?
Mr. Denis: I unfortunately don’t have that information, senator, but I will gladly get back to you on that.
Senator Forest: I would like to know whether those medications have an expiry date and whether a strategy has been developed to help countries that are less likely to buy them.
Mr. Denis: Noted, thank you.
Senator Forest: My other question this morning was for the Treasury Board Secretariat officials.
Public Safety Canada has an $800-million program under the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements. Firstly, how do you manage the estimated federal liabilities to pay for this program? Secondly, is there a strategy to ensure the quality of our infrastructures? We know Canada has many infrastructures, including ports and anti-erosion systems.
What are the infrastructure maintenance strategies, and how are the estimated federal liabilities managed to pay for the disaster financial assistance program?
Ms. Howlett: Thank you, senator. I will begin with your second question. We have a number of strategies to help us manage national disasters.
[English]
There are a number of initiatives under way to help us minimize and mitigate against future disasters, and that includes a National Adaptation Strategy that is currently under way and for which there will be a report coming out later in the year, as well as a National Risk Profile. All of this work is with the goal of ensuring Canada is better prepared because we know that natural disasters are increasing not only in number, but also in severity as we’ve seen even recently with the storm we just had on that long weekend in May.
The work that we are doing not only at Public Safety, but, of course, with other partners — including many of the departments that are on this call — is work that is all aimed at ensuring that Canadians are better prepared, which will also mean looking at the infrastructure itself. A certain part of this, of course, falls under the responsibility of the provinces and territories themselves in terms of their own infrastructure, and then looking at what we can do federally in order to bolster and support to have this built up, basically, so that we are prepared as future events will be likely coming our way.
[Translation]
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Howlett. Would you like to answer the other question right away?
Ms. Howlett: Yes, certainly.
[English]
So the other question, I think, was related to the payments in terms of how we are managing the payments to the provinces and territories. Because they have a five-year time frame, we work very closely with them based on an assessment of — it is a reimbursement program, I guess I should mention, so what we’re doing is reimbursing them for the expenses related to building back the infrastructure, the support, the response, that sort of thing.
We manage the program every fiscal year by doing a semi-annual accounting exercise. In the fall and the spring, they are assessing their requirements and then signalling back to us whether they are going to need the amount of money they had initially signalled. That is how we are able to cash manage as we go along because new events pop up, and then there are the older events, so we are constantly readjusting as we go along.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: I have just two questions.
The first is for the Public Health Agency and is related to the question from my colleague Senator Forest regarding the supply of supplementary therapeutic products. It is a large amount, $1.4 billion. That is 15% of your operating budget.
Is this the first time the federal health department has contributed to the funding of therapeutic products? There is COVID-19 of course, but there have been other illnesses or viruses in the past, and health does fall under provincial jurisdiction. Is this a precedent for the federal government to fund therapeutic products which are normally under provincial jurisdiction?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question, honourable senator.
I would say, first and foremost, one of the core mandate activities of the Public Health Agency is to maintain a federal stockpile of essential medical countermeasures, which combat a number of diseases and viruses that pose a threat to Canadians. The core mandate of the stockpile is to be the backstop and to be used for emergency purposes.
With respect to the amount of funding and money that we’re putting toward these therapeutics, it is very large and comparable to what we have been spending for vaccines themselves as well. I would say the precedent has been examined as part of the response to purchasing the vaccines themselves on behalf of provinces and territories.
As of May 19, I can say that $766 million has been spent on therapeutics to date with a further $1.9 billion under obligation through contracts, and we have a total budget across multiple years of $3 billion. That overshadows and is much larger than our core funding available for medical countermeasures in the suite of products that we maintain for emergencies.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: If I understand correctly, this kind of intervention or support to the provinces could become more recurrent in the coming years?
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question, honourable senator.
I would say that decision is beyond my remit and not within my decision-making authority, how the future would be funded. I would say that has not been the way that we have operated to this point.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Okay, thank you.
My next question is for Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada. It is related to the point raised by my colleague Senator Forest.
If I understand correctly, the $824 million requested in the Supplementary Estimates A for the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements was in Budget 2021. I asked the Parliamentary Budget Officer, but he did not have an answer. Why was this amount not included in the Main Estimates, since it was in the Supplementary Estimates A last year? Why does this amount suddenly appear in the Supplementary Estimates A? Was that not something you could foresee? I am trying to understand why this amount is in the Supplementary Estimates A instead of the Main Estimates.
Ms. Howlett: Thank you for your question, senator. It is really a question of budget management.
[English]
What happens is that the provinces and territories must submit information in order to be reimbursed. The pandemic has absolutely had an impact in terms of each province and territory that has submitted a request for assistance having to pull resources from certain sectors to support pandemic response.
As a result, in some cases, provinces and territories have not been able to pull their information together — understandably so — as they’ve had to respond to the pandemic instead. That’s why we do these semi-annual accounting exercises because we recognize that the situations will change in the provinces and territories. It is our opportunity to check in with them to see where things stand and if they are still on track in order to give us the information that we require in order to make that payment. Elections will have an impact. Changes in staff will have an impact. Additional events or emergencies, for example, in B.C., where all of a sudden it’s been disaster after disaster.
So while we do our best to foresee when we calculate our numbers for the estimates, we really have to be nimble and manage as we go along because new and — in this case — sometimes unprecedented events come up, and then we have to cash manage a little bit in order to address those issues and then keep going along.
What you are really seeing is actually the impact of the most recent natural disasters — which have been massive — and then the pandemic all blended together, meaning that the management of the cash has not been what we would have foreseen last year, or even the year before, and that we have to shift, be nimble and manage it as we go along.
Senator Richards: I have one quick question, and I don’t know if it can be answered. I will ask Mr. Krumins.
I know people whose operations have been held up, visits to hospitals have been curtailed over the last two years and yet we’ve spent on COVID-19 about $330 billion. Do you believe this money was all spent wisely, and will there be a report on the qualitative performance of the COVID-19 response after this is over in the next year or so? Can you even answer that, sir?
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question, honourable senator.
I think it is a very pertinent question, but I, unfortunately, can’t predict the future in terms of what it will hold. I do know that the amount of money spent was certainly unprecedented, but, as well, the global pandemic itself was unprecedented.
I think that there will be a lot of eyes on the future in terms of looking back on how the performance and the value for money unfolded, but I would reinforce that it was an unprecedented global pandemic for which nobody would have hoped that it was as severe as it was.
With that comes requirements to be able to act and be ready, which I feel that the government was through the measures that it took to procure life-saving vaccines and therapeutics.
Senator Richards: Maybe a quick comment more than a question: That didn’t help the people I know who couldn’t get in for their operations on prostate or other cancers, who had to wait an inordinate length of time and who put their very lives in danger.
I am wondering if that will be looked at in a report on how that might be better in the future if there is ever, God forbid, another pandemic.
Mr. Krumins: Yes, I hear you. It is not something within my remit, but I will take that back and we can get back to you.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Thank you to our witnesses. I have a question regarding national defence.
The Supplementary Estimates include $500 million for military assistance to Ukraine. Can you tell us how that money will be spent? Does this funding also support the deployment of Canadian troops to Ukraine for training purposes?
[English]
Ms. Crosby: I will start with the financials and then turn it over to the Lieutenant-General to speak more about the troops.
On the financial side, of course, in the face of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, we’ve been working very hard with our allies and partners to help Ukraine. In fact, since February of 2022, National Defence has committed almost $50 million worth of surplus and in-service donations and an additional $214 million in procurements. On the donation side, we’ve been able to donate equipment such as vests and meal packs, as well as some more lethal equipment such as howitzers and associated equipment.
On the procurement side, we’ve been working to procure items of importance to Ukraine and, with that in mind, have procured items such as satellite imagery and also a total of 50 drone cameras. We’ve also had commercial-patterned armoured vehicles purchased, et cetera. Of the $575 million announced in funding for those kinds of procurements, we are well on our way and continue to work hard to make sure that money is spent this year.
I will turn it over to the Lieutenant-General to speak more broadly about our activities.
Frances Allen, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces: Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the senator’s question.
Certainly, as you are aware, the Canadian Armed Forces have been engaged in training with Ukraine for a number of years through our Operation UNIFIER that we’ve had in Ukraine. As a result of the Russian aggression and attack on Ukraine, our activities within Ukraine themselves ceased and our Canadian Forces personnel removed themselves from Ukraine into Poland. That being said, training has been provided to Ukrainian forces on the use of the M777 howitzers and that has been taking place outside of Ukraine.
We are continuing to remain committed through Operation UNIFIER to look at what training opportunities can lie ahead for the Canadian Armed Forces to support the forces of the Ukrainian armed forces. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: How much time do you expect it will take, given that we do not know when the war will end? Is there a deadline, and will additional funding be required for this military assistance?
[English]
LGen. Allen: I will speak and then turn it back to the chief financial officer.
Certainly, the direction we were given by the government was that we were to look to provide $500 million worth of equipment that would be useful to the Ukrainian forces. The requirements and the requests have been communicated through a number of different avenues — to the minister herself through her colleague Mr. Reznikov, as well as to the Prime Minister and obviously through multilateral donations requirements.
At this point in time, we are looking to ensure the fulfillment of what the government has asked with respect to the sourcing of equipment to support Ukraine. If there are further requests that come forward, we will address those as well. Thank you.
Ms. Crosby: Of course, we can’t speak to the future and what additional funding may be announced. We are working hard to spend the funds that we have been given the opportunity to access, but we are also very closely tracking any in-service equipment that we have donated with the view to replacing that equipment as well. We’re tracking the costs of those sorts of donations so that we can quickly replenish our own stocks of the very important equipment that has been donated. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Mr. Thompson, from Indigenous Services Canada.
The Supplementary Estimates include an additional $2 billion for compensation under Child and Family Services programs. You will agree with me that this is certainly not a new obligation for the government. So I would like you to explain the following: Why did the finance minister not include this expenditure in the Main Estimates?
With all due respect, as a public servant, do you not think that there is some political manipulation of the figures going on here since these expenditures curiously appeared after the budget was tabled?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for this question about compensation.
For this initiative, the funding works as follows: We closely follow the status of negotiations with our Indigenous partners. This is the third tranche of the budget, if I am not mistaken, to help us prepare to issue payments. We received the first tranche of the budget under the Supplementary Estimates C last year. If memory serves me, it was $1.2 billion. The Main Estimates also include the larger amount of $20 billion, which is also to ensure that the department is ready to issue payments as soon as an agreement is concluded.
Since the negotiations are ongoing, we adjust based on how far they have progressed. What you see today is an additional tranche of $2.1 billion so we can prepare. We are therefore able to provide the total funding available in the department’s budget at this time, and we will be able to respond very quickly once a final agreement is reached with the partners.
Senator Dagenais: On the same topic, can you provide an overview of the flow of money under this compensation program? Specifically, when the money leaves your department, where does it go? What control do you have over payments up to the final step, that is, until the compensation reaches those for whom it is intended?
Mr. Thompson: The money is paid into a trust account, which will be administered by a third party established to determine eligibility. For further details on this, I will turn to my colleague who is responsible for the program, Ms. Catherine Lappe.
Catherine Lappe, Assistant Deputy Minister, Child and Family Services Reform Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: Thanks very much for your question. As my colleague said, the negotiations are ongoing. We follow what our partners are doing. We work towards paying amounts into this account administered by a third party, and the details are evaluated during the negotiations to ensure that we meet our obligations according to the agreed timelines.
I would add a further detail on your last question. This year, we implemented immediate measures in addition to a few billion dollars to work with our partners right now to make sure the money goes to the children who need it.
Although the negotiations are still ongoing, we try to implement certain program reforms so that we do not have to wait any longer than necessary. As you know, these children are very vulnerable, so if we can already put in place certain measures with our partners in terms of underfunding, we will continue our work to conclude these negotiations as quickly as possible in order to complete the entire reform.
Senator Dagenais: The Supplementary Estimates for the Public Health Agency include a new amount of $1.5 billion for therapeutic products related to COVID-19.
I would ask one of the officials in attendance to explain what the finance minister forgot to buy in the Main Estimates so that now, so soon after tabling those estimates, we now have a request of $1.5 billion.
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Honourable senator, thank you for the question. This funding was allocated in the previous fiscal year originally and is a re-profile of money from the last fiscal year to this fiscal year.
It’s not a question that the funding was identified too late for the Main Estimates. It was allocated originally in the previous fiscal year to allow the agency to sign contracts with companies so that we had the money available. Then, we brought it forward to the current fiscal year to match the timing of when the payments will take place.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Pate: Thank you to the witnesses.
My question is for Indigenous Services Canada. Your department is requesting an additional $2.2 billion, including $2.1 billion for costs related to compensation and reforms to the First Nations Child and Family Services and Jordan’s Principle programs, as well as $99 million to address the ongoing devastating legacy of residential schools.
In a report that was commissioned by your department and that a number of us heard about yesterday from Dr. Naiomi Metallic, Hadley Friedland and Shelby Thomas regarding Jordan’s Principle, significant problems for accessing much-needed funding for Indigenous peoples and their children because of ongoing interjurisdictional wrangling between the federal and provincial governments over essential services to Indigenous children and families were noted as creating the need for significant accountability and the need to fix and take action to ensure supports are put in place for families and children.
What action is the government — and, in particular, your department — taking to ensure accountability measures are implemented for those who submit requests under Jordan’s Principle so that the government is not simply perpetuating the issues and problems from the previous system and that, most importantly, of course, the people doing the requesting are able to access the resources they’re seeking and need for their children and families?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. Rightly, as mentioned by the senator, the portion of the budget that is part of the Supplementary Estimates (A) impacts the reform of Jordan’s Principle. To give you more detail on the exact question you’re asking, I will turn to my colleague Keith Conn. [Technical difficulties.]
Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, honourable senator, for the question.
Work is under way with our First Nations and Inuit partners to look at reforming the administration of the Jordan’s Principle initiative. We’re working with the partners to look at a change in the processing and approval of requests from individuals or groups. We’re shifting to a back-to-basics approach in terms of expediting requests that come in for products and services, like education, mental health and others.
This is part of our long-term reform plan for Jordan’s Principle. Discussion is going on with partners to look at efficiencies and to create effective response times in terms of meeting the needs of children across the nation. We are also looking at the issue of payments for reimbursement costs, and we are expediting those processes as well to ensure timely payments for reimbursement for products and services that we receive within the department.
I’m not aware of any particular wrangling at the moment between the provincial and federal government per se. Otherwise, we would know this quickly. Requests come in and we have a duty to respond in a timely way. We don’t deflect or defer to the province, although some of these, at times, are insured by the provinces. However, requests come in, we triage them and respond accordingly. Thank you for the question, senator.
Senator Pate: I’d be interested in what exactly you are doing and how you’re engaging with Indigenous communities to address these issues. Given that this was raised by the three experts who were contracted by your department, I’d be very interested in receiving a response from the department to the recommendations they’ve made because the issue of “wrangling” was the particular word that was used by the presenters. In addition, I’d be interested in what else the department is doing to ensure that these matters are remedied.
I’m personally familiar with a number of cases where individuals have reached out to our office as a result of first being denied. To their credit, they have persisted, but it’s very clear that it takes a high degree of advocacy for some to get access to the resources that are, according to the settlement, supposed to be much more easily and readily available to families.
Mr. Conn: Thank you for the supplementary question. We are working closely with the Assembly of First Nations and the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society of Canada, as well as other provincial and territorial organizations across the nation, to ensure that voices are heard through those various committees. We also have an oversight committee called Jordan’s Principle Oversight Committee, which includes a vast membership list of First Nations communities, representatives and provincial-territorial organizations, that looks at the issues, challenges and concerns raised by addressing those issues through the fundamental reform of the administration, funding and response times to meet the needs of the children and the group requests that come in.
We can provide some supplementary information on the points raised the other day by the three experts, and we can follow up on that in writing.
Senator Pate: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Some questions that were asked by Senator Marshall and Senator Forest require written responses. As a reminder to the departments about answering those questions, we do have a deadline, which is the end of the day on Monday, June 13, or earlier. Would you please keep that in mind so that we can be provided, through the clerk, with the written responses?
Senator Boehm: My questions follow-up on the questions asked by Senator Gerba earlier with respect to Ukraine. The questions will be for the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence.
The Chair: Senator Boehm, I’ll have to interrupt, but your time will stay on the clock. The Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces were only scheduled for one hour. Therefore, I would ask you to put the questions to the table, and we will bring it to the attention of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. Then, you can continue with questions for the four other departments.
Senator Boehm: Thank you. I was just going to thank them as well. I’m glad that is noticed. I think there’s a nimble response under way.
My interest, though, was to see what the breakdown of the $500 million represents in terms of inventory versus new procurement versus direct transfers to Ukraine. That really is my interest. For example, are the 20,000 shells for the M-777 howitzers included in this? Are they from existing inventory and the like? I think more precision there would be helpful to the committee in terms of the study.
I have a question for Public Safety Canada about the rationale. We know there are, obviously, extreme weather events that are recurring. We’ve seen this in virtually all parts of the country. But in terms of the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements program, are there other factors that are being taken into account, the increasing costs for material, for example? Are there labour shortages that are contemplated in terms of disaster response? Are any of these funds being set aside in an anticipatory way beyond this year?
Ms. Howlett: Thank you very much for the questions, senator. In terms of increased costs and supply chain issues, which I think you’re alluding to, and labour shortages, the program is a reimbursement to the provinces and territories. The initial numbers that they provide when they make their requests are estimates, so when the numbers come in they could either be higher or lower, which again speaks to that cash management dance that we must do in terms of managing the events as they occur.
Sometimes the actual will be higher. Therefore, we need to request additional monies, such as the case now with Supplementary Estimates (A). Again, that’s why we do the semi-annual accounting exercise as well because it allows us to see where things stand and determine if we need to make any adjustments as we proceed.
I’m sorry, the second part of your question was related to?
Senator Boehm: Thank you, Ms. Howlett. That covers it, but what I wanted to ask you was whether the review panel that is being established by the Minister of Emergency Preparedness would look at the aftermaths or would be more about preventing and looking at mitigation, let’s say, from a climate action standpoint. Is there a requirement for this panel to consult with local communities, including Indigenous communities?
Ms. Howlett: Yes, absolutely. The panel does include consultations with Indigenous communities. It’s actually looking at whether we need to change the modalities of the program, on the one hand, as well as what you’ve just mentioned in terms of the nature of the events that are happening.
The National Adaptation Strategy, which I mentioned earlier, is truly focusing on the increase and severity of events in Canada. That piece will actually speak more to what we can do as a country to prepare and be better able to respond versus the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements review, which is looking at the program itself, its modalities and whether they respond to the nature and the need of the provinces’ and territories’ requests. Do we need to make any shifts? Do we need to change it? Both of those two elements together will provide us with that comprehensive view of what we need to do as a country in order to respond to these catastrophic events that are happening even more frequently due to climate change and other things that are happening as well.
Senator Boehm: Thank you. Will the recommendations of the panel be made public?
Ms. Howlett: Yes, they will be.
Senator Boehm: Thank you.
Senator Duncan: Thank you to the witnesses who have appeared before us today. I’m going to follow up on Senator Pate’s questions, specifically regarding the funding for Jordan’s Principle. I’ll be more direct.
The Departmental Results Report 2020-21 for Indigenous Services Canada advised that the program, Jordan’s Principle, was launched in 2016, and that since the launch, more than 911,000 requests have been approved. In 2020-21, that resulted in 339,654 approved products and services.
Respectfully to the officials, that information does not provide — in a manner that is consistent with transparency, reliability and accountability to either Indigenous Canadians or Canadians as a whole — how this funding for Jordan’s Principle is meeting the needs of Indigenous children and communities, the people it’s intended to serve.
Would the department officials have any additional information to offer?
Mr. Conn: Thank you, honourable senator, for the question. Yes, those are significant numbers. We’re into the millions now at this point in terms of products and services. The exact number escapes me. However, senator, we can circle back in terms of more detailed information on what exactly those products and services are in terms of thematic areas. We can provide a breakdown of that to ensure there is more transparency, if you will, as you suggested. It will help to understand the framing and the expenditures to date, the supports that are requested by communities and what has been funded for individuals and group requests. We can come back with more detailed information on that point.
Senator Duncan: Respectfully, I believe you also mentioned an oversight committee. The Departmental Results Report 2020-21 refers to a Jordan’s Principle Operations Committee and a Jordan’s Principle Action Table. Could we please have some information as well on how much of the Jordan’s Principle funding is purchasing products, services and programming for Indigenous children and how much is going to administration of the program?
Mr. Conn: Thank you, senator, for the question. We can provide more detailed information on the operations and administration of the Jordan’s Principle initiatives.
Senator Duncan: Senator Pate has mentioned an evaluation of the program and some deficiencies that have been noted. Would you provide that information internally? Has there been more than one look at Jordan’s Principle, a detailed examination and the involvement of the Assembly of First Nations and First Nations governments?
The other point in a review of the program, and the other question I have, is the program may function in one manner in a Prairie province and in another manner in the Yukon, where they’re a self-governing First Nation. Could we have the regional breakdown of the application of this program and where the funding has been spent, where it’s providing goods and services and where Jordan’s Principle is providing programming to give us a more fulsome picture of how it operates throughout the country? And an accounting for the funding.
Mr. Conn: Thank you, senator, for the question. We can certainly provide in writing a regional breakdown, including the territories, of the expenditures in the different categories that have been expended in terms of individual and group requests from communities.
Senator Duncan: Thank you. I would like to turn to — and put it on the record — the Department of National Defence and the response to public emergencies in Canada.
In the Yukon, we dealt with a public emergency last summer. I was sandbagging, along with the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry out of Edmonton. Across the country, we will call upon the military to assist provinces and territories when we are dealing with natural disasters. And, of course, the Department of National Defence’s funding is national defence. Where does that sort of support factor into the funding and assistance that’s provided to provinces and territories in terms of dealing with natural disasters?
That’s a question just to be put on the record, Mr. Chair. I would expect a written response. Thank you.
The Chair: Ms. Howlett, on the public safety side of it, do you have any comments on that question?
Ms. Howlett: Yes, I do. Thank you very much for the question.
When it comes to response for assistance due to an ongoing event, there is a very close collaboration between Public Safety as well as the Department of National Defence through the Canadian Armed Forces.
Often, you’ll see that it’s determined that the Canadian Armed Forces, for example, will be on the ground to support. Other times, it might be the Canadian Red Cross or other organizations. That is based on the close relationship we have that when an event comes up, all partners gather and we determine who is best placed to respond. That’s why, at different times, you’ll see different parties going in and supporting the communities.
As my Indigenous Services colleagues who are on this call will know, it has often been the Canadian Armed Forces who have been the boots on the ground in Indigenous communities, for example. In other cases, it has been the Canadian Red Cross. More recently, the Search and Rescue Volunteer Association of Canada has provided support as well.
We come together, we determine the nature of the event and see who is best placed to provide that support.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you to all of our panellists for being here.
My question is for the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority. I understand the additional $330 million proposed in Supplementary Estimates (A) will allow your department to better prepare and manage the growing traffic at Canadian airports. Have you established objectives with respect to targets and time frames, like we do in business? At this point, the waiting times are way too long.
What improvements are required? Do you have targets in mind? When will we get there with respect to a time frame? We have the summer coming, and tourism has opened up, which is great news.
This is where I’m going with the targets: How do current wait times for queues at security screenings at major Canadian airports compare to wait times experienced before the COVID pandemic? Is that our target going forward? How long will it take us to get there? Are you missing personnel?
I might continue with supplementary questions once we get those answers.
Ms. Fitchett: Thank you for the question. I would like to start with the question related to the target, and then I will turn to Kelsey MacTavish to respond to the remainder.
With respect to a target, the Government of Canada’s policy position is to provide funding to CATSA for what we refer to as “85-15.” That means we aim for 85% of passengers to wait less than 15 minutes, on average, over the year, to be screened at Class 1 airports. That is the target, if you will, that CATSA works with.
Pre-pandemic, while funding was provided to target 85-15, CATSA exceeded that target for many years. However, we recognize the challenge in the two recent months, April and May.
I’ll turn to Ms. MacTavish to speak about recent wait times.
Ms. MacTavish: Thank you, senator, for your question. As Ms. Fitchett noted, we have outperformed the target that we are funded for in the lead-up to the pandemic and throughout the pandemic itself. In the last couple of months, operating with resource-capacity challenges in terms of resources and screening officer resources, combined with the speed of the return of passenger volumes, has created wait time challenges, which has seen us not meet that 85-15 target in certain key airports.
As part of our summer 2022 planning, which began last year, we first focused on returning screening officers that had been laid off due to the pandemic and then we were working throughout that time to also recruit additional screening officers. Our focus has been getting screening officers hired, trained and deployed. We have made significant progress this spring. Those efforts are paying off, and more than 400 screening officers are in various stages of their training and readiness in terms of deployment.
As mentioned, our focus is entirely on trying to get wait times to meet the target that we are funded for summer 2022.
I will say, and I did mention in response to a previous senator’s question, that we are also working to recruit nearly 1,000 screening officers over the course of this fiscal year. That effort will continue through our screening contractors well beyond the summer that is about to be upon us.
Senator Loffreda: If I understand correctly, the major challenge is in resources, and in retaining and recruiting the officers. Are you confident that by the summer of 2022, it will be resolved with the additional funding? Are there other purposes for which you’re using this additional funding?
Ms. Fitchett: This additional funding is for CATSA’s core operations. The vast majority of our entire budget is for the purchase of screening hours through our third-party screening contractors, who then pay the screening officers.
With respect to wait times, I could add that there has been a significant improvement week over week, since the beginning of April. For Class 1 airports, in the last week of May, while we continue progress and it is not sufficient for us, we were over 88% in 15 minutes.
Senator Loffreda: You do have the additional officers at this point in time?
Ms. Fitchett: Absolutely.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: I understand that when you prepare annual budgets, you cannot include items in the Main Estimates that you are unaware of or that have not yet been estimated.
You have used the words “profiling” and “reprofiling“ several times. I have questions about certain amounts that you presented, specifically when you referred to “serious injuries” caused by vaccines. That means that some people have long-term effects from the vaccines they received. There is an amount of $9.6 million in the budget. Is that funding that has been allocated and that you will pay out to individuals? That is my question for you.
[English]
Mr. Krumins: Excellent. Thank you for your question, honourable senator.
The Vaccine Injury Support Program is administered through a third-party administrator for which the government provides the funding. They work through the resolution of claims and the process to administer those claims that come forward. My colleague Martin Joyal would be pleased to speak to the mechanics of this program.
[Translation]
Martin Joyal, Director General, Strategic Policy, Planning and Coordination, COVID-19 Vaccine Rollout Task Force, Public Health Agency of Canada: As my colleague Mr. Krumins stated, this program is administered by a third party, RCGT Consulting. Given that the program was created this year and that negotiations with the provinces, and Quebec in particular, are still ongoing — since Quebec already has a program in place —,the total funding available has not yet been committed. That is why we wanted to carry forward the funding to this year to keep those amounts intact and available.
An organization evaluates claims from individuals that may have suffered some injury following a vaccine. That is why we wanted to carry forward that funding to ensure that it is not lost and is still available to the organization evaluating claims under the program.
Senator Moncion: Similarly, there is Paxlovid, which seems to be effective in relieving symptoms, but which affects kidney function. There are people who cannot take that medication. Was that considered in your work with the third party you are working with?
Mr. Joyal: I want to clarify that the Vaccine Injury Support Program is primarily for individuals who suffered adverse consequences following a vaccine, specifically for vaccines approved by Health Canada. The program is really for vaccines. Then there is a medical process with the body assembled by the third-party organization. They assess whether there is a cause and effect between the vaccine-related incident and its harmful health effects. This applies primarily to vaccines.
Senator Moncion: My next question is along the same lines and pertains to the funding allocated. The amount for natural disasters and a compensation program is $823.6 million. If I understand correctly, no funding is allocated in the Supplementary Estimates for disasters that might occur this fall, for instance. In the event of disasters, you will have to request new funding in the next Supplementary Estimates.
Ms. Howlett: Thank you for the question. Yes, it is a reimbursement program, but we do have a small cushion. So we can manage the situation, but it depends on the scale of the disaster. If an event occurs, such as the one in British Columbia last year, we will definitely have to make another request, but that is hypothetical.
It is a reimbursement program for events that have already occurred, but we always have a cushion. We manage the funds to deal with events that are not major. So we are able to reimburse a province or territory, particularly if they need an advance. That is how we manage the program.
Senator Moncion: You said that you have provided $6.5 billion in the past five years. In those five years, however, the costs related to disasters have exceeded $13 billion. I would like to know what the provinces and insurance companies contribute financially, and if their contribution is equal to what is provided under government programs. Do you have that kind of reimbursement system?
Ms. Howlett: Thank you for the question.
[English]
The way the program is determined is that the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements only kick in after a certain threshold has been passed by that province and territory. The formula is such that once it passes one dollar per capita, the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements would kick in. So the province has already put in its portion.
The events for which we would be reimbursing are those that would be non-insurable. So the insurance companies would have come in and done their part as well in terms of whatever it is that they would be paying for.
The program is really the third leg on the stool, so to speak, in terms of coming in after the other entities have paid or provided the support for the recovery and the building back.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: My next question is for the officials from Indigenous Services Canada. We know that $2.1 billion has already been allocated for agreements that have been negotiated. Following the upcoming court settlements, you will have to request additional funding to meet potential requirements. Is that correct and is that how you work with Indigenous communities?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. Yes, you understood correctly, that is how it works. The funding currently included in our estimates is based on the ongoing negotiations. For all future negotiations, the department will have to go through the same expenditure management process to obtain more funding.
Senator Moncion: So when you prepare your budgets, you may not request funding in anticipation of future needs. Do you have to proceed based on what you know by the deadlines?
Mr. Thompson: That is correct. The department has to get a mandate from the finance department. We negotiate on the basis of the mandate received from the department. Then we follow the financial management process to secure the funding.
Senator Moncion: Thank you very much.
[English]
The Chair: We will now go to the second round. I will now recognize, for three minutes per senator, Senator Marshall, to be followed by Senator Forest.
Senator Marshall: My question is for Mr. Thompson. I want to make sure that I understand about the funding, the $2.1 billion.
When you responded to Senator Dagenais, I think you indicated that the fund was managed by a third party. Is that correct? Did I understand your explanation correctly?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. Once we have a final agreement between the negotiating parties, the amount for the negotiated settlement will be put into a trust and it will be administered by the third party determined to be responsible for the trust to determine eligibility and issue the payments. The department will not be issuing the payments directly. It will be done by the third party as negotiated by the government.
Senator Marshall: Has this $2.1 billion now been turned over to a third party to be administered or does there have to be further negotiations?
Mr. Thompson: The negotiations are ongoing. Once voted, the amounts will be in the department’s reference level. Only when the negotiations are concluded will it be put into the trust.
As explained by my colleague in response to an earlier question, a portion of that funding is also dedicated to initiate the reform of the program. Not all the money will go through compensation. A portion of that funding will also be invested in ensuring that we are better meeting the needs of the communities through the reform of the program.
Senator Marshall: Okay. Your colleague responded to Senator Pate’s question about some of the challenges that applicants are finding when they apply for funding. Are they applying directly to the department, or are they applying to this third party that you refer to?
Mr. Thompson: To make sure I understand the question, are we referring to the compensation funding or are we referring to Jordan’s Principle requests?
Senator Marshall: Senator Pate asked the question. I don’t recall what funding it was. I’m just trying to understand how the funding is provided. I always thought that the department provided the funding directly to applicants, but now you are telling me there is a third party. What’s the differentiation?
Mr. Thompson: There is a distinction between compensation as part of the negotiated settlement. That funding would be put into a trust and then would be administered by a third party.
With regard to Jordan’s Principle applications, those applications are made to the department, reviewed by the department and the payments are administered by the department.
Senator Marshall: I will keep going until the chair stops me. Who is the third party? That sounds interesting.
Mr. Thompson: I will turn to my colleague Ms. Lappe to answer that question with more precision because we are still in negotiation.
Ms. Lappe: I think we have to come back to you for an answer on that. I don’t think a third party has been selected at this point in time. As my colleague indicated, we are in the midst of negotiations still, but it is the intent to have a third party do the administration.
It is a complex area here because we’re talking about a First Nations Child and Family Services program as well as Jordan’s Principle for both compensation where one set of $20 billion is talked about, but there is also $20 billion that is being set aside for the long-term reform of the First Nations Child and Family Services program. There are also discussions under way for the long-term reform of Jordan’s Principle.
Senator Marshall: Okay. I would be very interested in who the third party is. If there are billions of dollars going over to a third party, that raises a whole lot of other questions. I would be very interested in getting that.
The Chair: On that question, Mr. Thompson, we will have a written answer with the deadline that we are sharing with you, which is through the clerk by the end of the day on Monday, June 13. Is that agreed upon?
Mr. Thompson: Mr. Chair, I think I can answer the question.
The department is not going to be in a position to provide additional information on the third-party administrator until we have completed the negotiations. As the department evolves with the negotiation, we should be in a position to provide the information to the committee.
The Chair: So it is still presently ongoing; it is still in discussions?
Mr. Thompson: It is still in negotiation, this is correct.
The Chair: Negotiation, thank you.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: I have a quick question for the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority. I would expect that, owing to the pandemic, the screening and processing of passengers has become more time-consuming and costly to CATSA. Have you estimated the impact of the current measures on your screening costs, and do you expect to be facing these costs on a recurring basis? What are the most significant health-related restrictions for you in terms of the impact on personnel requirements?
[English]
Ms. Fitchett: Thank you for the question. I would be pleased to speak about additional costs that CATSA have incurred as a result of the pandemic.
Over the last two years, we took on temporary mandates directed by the Government of Canada through Transport Canada specifically, at one point, for checking temperature of passengers and non-passengers prior to going through screening. Over the two years, there were additional costs of $52 million. That program has now ceased.
We also have additional costs over and above our costs pre-pandemic for things like personal protective equipment and additional sanitization at the checkpoint. That is approximately $10 million per year.
I will pass on the remainder of the question to Ms. MacTavish.
Ms. MacTavish: Thank you, Ms. Fitchett.
Thank you, senator. With regards to your question, and in terms of the measures that have been put in place and their impact on screening, clearly they did have an impact, but in a time period when there were a lot fewer passengers. So the ultimate result was no real change in terms of wait time service levels or overall performance.
As the pandemic has evolved, we have worked through our screening contractors and with their occupational health and safety committees to ensure the review of these measures routinely. So we have conducted ongoing reviews and made adjustments to the measures that we’ve had in place, most recently just in the last couple of months.
As we move to a return to more significant passenger volumes, our measures are evolving. We are working to revise the measures that will allow us to gain some efficiency without compromising the health and safety of the people working in this environment, nor the travellers who are using these services on a daily basis. With regard to that, at this point, we are aiming to meet our funded target of 85% of passengers waiting 15 minutes or less, being processed to get people through and on to their flights on time.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: Thank you.
Senator Gignac: My questions have already been asked and the witness has answered them. Thank you.
[English]
Senator Richards: This is a question for Mr. Krumins. Do we know or who knows the percentage of the age groups of those people who have had a severe reaction to the COVID shot? Is this a future concern, or should it be on the radar at all? Is it being monitored by Canadian health officials? Since $300 billion has been spent on the COVID crisis, is this a serious concern?
Mr. Krumins: Thank you for your question.
I would ask my colleague Martin Joyal to respond to the monitoring of vaccines and adverse events.
Senator Richards: I am thinking, in particular, of reports of heart trouble among the 30-year-olds who have had COVID shots. It has become a concern. I’m wondering if it is a concern to the Canadian health authorities, or is it enough of a concern to take action over?
Mr. Joyal: Yes, indeed. We have a very comprehensive and integrated system both at the Public Health Agency and with Health Canada to monitor and work very much in liaison with the provinces and territories for situations, as you mentioned, senator, with specific age groups and certain medical incidences.
That is compiled. It comes through the agency and Health Canada that work directly with the manufacturers, who also will flag safety incidents. Those are brought in and then assessed globally by public health experts in terms of what actions to take. This information is also then provided to organizations like the National Advisory Committee on Immunization. It regularly looks at safety information and makes updated recommendations to Canadians, to provinces and to health practitioners in terms of the recommended dosage and vaccines for different populations.
So again, just to say that it is a very live and fluid environment where that information comes in, is assessed and then is integrated into decision making and advice back to the health care system.
Senator Richards: Thank you. I won’t keep you much longer.
I am wondering: Is this a concern of health officials in Canada that this has taken place? I’m thinking of long-term disabilities of certain groups of young people that might occur because of COVID? Has this been a concern, or is it a concern?
Mr. Joyal: As I mentioned, senator, we continue to monitor every one of those incidences. They are brought in and analyzed on a population level as we find those discreet incidences, but then look at it from a population basis and feed that back into organizations like the National Advisory Committee on Immunization to make recommendations.
You have seen the National Advisory Committee on Immunization make recommendations as to certain vaccines for certain age groups, for certain populations. That is the system adjusting to those safety indications and concerns that could come up in the system.
Senator Richards: Thank you very much for that.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is further to Senator Marshall’s question. You said that billions of dollars will be administered by a third party. So we are talking about public funds to be administered by a third party. Yet we cannot know the name of the third party because the negotiations are ongoing. If the negotiations fail, I expect there will be a different third party, and you say it is complicated.
I admit it is a bit worrisome to see billions of taxpayer dollars being administered by a third party whose name we do not know.
Are you saying that after the negotiations with this third party, we can find out their name? Is there a confidentiality agreement? I find this worrisome.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for your question. As I said, it is a matter that is still being negotiated by the parties. So the funding that was included in our reference levels is intended to ensure that we will be able to respond once the negotiations are concluded.
The administration of the funding, of the money, and the way payments will be made are part of the negotiation process. I am trying to provide as much information as possible so you can really understand the administration of this funding. Having a third party responsible for managing eligibility and administering the payments is not a precedent. We want to make sure that everything proceeds in accordance with the negotiations. It is truly during the negotiation process that we agree on the way the funds will be administered once the negotiations are completed.
The reason you are seeing this funding in our reference levels before the negotiations are completed is that we could possibly have completed the negotiations and then accessed the funding. It is really to ensure that we will be able to make the payments as quickly as possible, proactively.
If the negotiations are not concluded this year, the amounts will be returned to the government’s fiscal framework until we reach an agreement. We can then disclose all the details of the agreement once it is concluded.
I am not sure if Ms. Lappe would like to add anything to these explanations.
Senator Dagenais: And when the negotiations are over, will we be told the name of the third party?
Mr. Thompson: Absolutely. The mechanism will be disclosed and we will know how it will be administered. You will understand that the ministry’s mandate does not necessarily provide tools to manage the eligibility of such a fund. It is really the communities, the Indigenous institutions themselves, that will manage eligibility and issue payments for their communities and members.
Senator Dagenais: Good luck; we can’t wait to hear the name.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Boehm: My colleagues have been very diligent in asking the other questions that I had. Thank you.
Senator Loffreda: My question is for the Public Health Agency of Canada. In his most recent report on the estimates, the Parliamentary Budget Officer noted that the authorities for medical research and vaccine development have decreased by 81.5% compared to the 2020-21 fiscal year, while the authorities for the procurement of vaccines, therapeutics, personal protective equipment and rapid tests have increased by 283.3% over the same time frame. Is the Public Health Agency satisfied with this breakdown in spending authority? While I appreciate the medical and scientific communities have been successful with vaccine development, I wonder if research and development should continue to be a high-ranking priority and receive more funding in order to be better prepared for the next time we are faced with a global health crisis.
Mr. Krumins: Excellent. Thank you for your question, senator. With respect to funding of research and development in the private sector and other institutions, that’s a question more for the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and Health Canada. However, there are amounts of funding that we have specific to our COVID response, and we’ve made sure that we have profiled that in the proper years as they relate to the use of vaccines and the purchase of those vaccines, as well as the purchase of rapid tests and the like.
What we’ve done is — although they may have decreased from the surge year of previous fiscal years — we have made sure that the future profiles reflect the need that we are currently forecasting with respect to the Public Health Agency of Canada’s response. I take your question regarding research in the private sector, and that’s a question more appropriate for the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and Health Canada.
Senator Loffreda: My question at this point is for National Defence. I know they are not here, but maybe for the record — and given the nature of the question, I’m sure there is security involved with their response — I would be interested as there are additional sums being requested here in order to support Ukraine, and rightfully so.
What is the process of determining the types of military equipment to be provided to Ukraine? I am looking for optimal usage of our aid package and to ascertain that we are making optimal use and obtaining optimal results. To what extent does Canada coordinate with its allies to determine the types of military equipment provided to Ukraine? How do we collaborate with the allies for delivery of this military equipment?
I’m certain you are doing an exceptional job, and that Canadian Armed Forces are doing it extremely well. I’m not questioning any procedures on national defence. I am wondering if there is anything else that we can help with, with respect to stock, procedures, delivery and supply chains. If they can supply us with a written response to that in order to analyze it properly and to take proper measures to see if we are obtaining optimal results.
[Translation]
The Chair: This will be forwarded by the clerk directly to the department.
Senator Moncion?
Senator Moncion: My questions have already been answered, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: Senator Gerba, do you have a question?
Senator Gerba: I would like to pick up on a concern raised by Senator Moncion about compensation for people who have had side effects after receiving a vaccine.
We know that the vaccination rate in Canada is very high. Mr. Joyal, do you know the percentage of people who have used this compensation across Canada?
I know that, as far as the provinces are concerned, Radio-Canada has counted nearly 445 Quebecers who have sought compensation for these effects. In Canada, do we already know the percentage of people who have suffered side effects and who have applied for compensation?
The Chair: Is your question for Mr. Joyal?
Senator Gerba: Yes.
Mr. Joyal: As for people who have submitted a claim under the program, as you mentioned, there is a Quebec component to the program that Quebecers can take advantage of.
For the rest of Canada, the new program, which has been set up and is administered by a third party, has released a first statistical report on the number of claims received in December. This data is available on the website, where it can be seen that approximately 400 claims were made. Of these, 323 claims were deemed eligible and are now going through the medical assessment process.
There is a panel of medical experts who have to determine the causal link between the vaccination and the adverse effects that have been reported by individuals. After that, there is an assessment and a judgment, to determine whether there will be compensation or not.
That would be the approximate order of magnitude. I understand that the third-party organization that independently administers the program is preparing to release more recent statistics in the coming weeks to update this data, which dates from December 2021.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Gerba.
If I may, honourable senators, I have a question for Mr. Thompson. Mr. Thompson, are you still here?
Mr. Thompson: Yes, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: You are saying that you are not equipped properly to deliver certain programs?
Mr. Thompson: No, that is not what I meant. It was in the context of the question that was raised in relation to payments under the compensation scheme. I meant that it was not a new practice to have a third party administer the funds, mainly in this case where the money will go to the communities according to the negotiation process. A third party will administer the funds and ensure eligibility.
The Chair: I have a follow-up question to your explanation. How many months have you been negotiating with a third party to get a reasonable deal?
Mr. Thompson: We don’t negotiate with the third party, but we obviously negotiate with our partners. I will let Ms. Lappe give you the exact answer to your question.
Ms. Lappe: We have been negotiating since about October last year. We reached an agreement in principle on December 31 and we are now in the process of negotiating a final agreement with the parties on compensation, reforms to the Child and Family Services programs and Jordan’s Principle. So there are several components that are quite complex.
The Chair: I have one last quick question for Mr. Thompson.
[English]
Do you have other programs in your department that are being administered by third-party providers?
Mr. Thompson: They wouldn’t be departmental programs, chair. But we have, of course, transferred some of the services to Indigenous institutions. There are a number of services to Indigenous communities that are now transferred and are not administered anymore by the department. This is correct.
The Chair: Thank you.
To the witnesses, to the professionals, thank you very much. It was very informative. I would ask you to please try to respect our deadline of Monday, by the end of the day, June 13.
On this, honourable senators, our next meeting will be tomorrow, Wednesday, June 8, at 12 p.m. ET to resume our study of the subject matter of Bill C-8. Thank you very much.
(The committee adjourned.)