THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, October 19, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 6:47 p.m. [ET] to study Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023.
Senator Percy Mockler (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: I wish to welcome all the senators as well as viewers across the country who are watching us on sencanada.ca. My name is Percy Mockler, and I am a senator from New Brunswick and Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance.
I will ask the senators to please introduce themselves.
Senator Loffreda: Good evening. Tony Loffreda from Quebec.
Senator Pate: Kim Pate, from here on the shores of the Kitchissippi, the unceded, unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg, Ottawa.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Clément Gignac from Quebec.
Senator Audette: Michèle Audette from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Duncan: Good evening. Pat Duncan. I’m a senator from the Yukon.
Senator Boehm: Peter Boehm, Ontario.
Senator Bovey: Patricia Bovey, Manitoba.
Senator Smith: Larry Smith, Quebec.
Senator Marshall: Elizabeth Marshall, Newfoundland and Labrador.
The Chair: Thank you, senators.
Honourable senators, this evening we will resume our study of the Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023, which was referred to this committee on March 3, 2022, by the Senate of Canada.
We have with us today senior officials from Indigenous Services Canada, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada and the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency. I am told that one senior official from each department will offer opening remarks and will then be supported by his or her colleagues during questions from the senators.
[Translation]
We have with us from Indigenous Services Canada, Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer. Mr. Thompson, as always, I thank you for your availability and for being with us today.
From Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, we have Darlene Bess, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer. I’d also like to thank you for being with us.
From the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, we have Margaret Buist, Vice-President, Policy Planning, Communications and NPMO.
[English]
Welcome to all of you and thank you for being here with other officials so that we can continue our study on Main Estimates. I’d like to ask all of the other witnesses that have not been introduced to introduce yourself if asked to assist in the answers on the questions. We will now hear opening remarks from Mr. Thompson.
Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss the 2022-23 Main Estimates for Indigenous Services Canada ISC. I would like to begin by acknowledging that we come together on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people.
With me today are Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch; Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations Sector; David Peckham, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector; Christine Harmston, Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Education Branch; Jessica Sultan, Director General, Economic and Business Opportunities; and Marc Geoffrion, Deputy Chief Financial Officer.
I would like to take a brief moment to provide you with an update on the status of the COVID-19 pandemic activity across Indigenous communities.
[Translation]
The rate of reported active cases of COVID-19 among First Nations people living on-reserve was going down since reaching its highest level this year in mid-January 2022, plateauing through the summer months, to gradually decrease again since then.
As of October 11, there are 222 known active cases of COVID-19 for a total of 120,033 confirmed cases of which 119,050 have recovered and, sadly, 760 have lost their lives.
As of September 13, 687 communities have access to vaccine clinics, a total of 1,191,684 COVID vaccine doses have been administered to individuals living in First Nations, Inuit and territorial communities. Almost 90% of individuals aged 12 and older have received a second dose, and over 40% have received a third dose. Over 53% of children aged 5 to 11 have received at least one dose.
Communities’ health and safety is our top priority. We continue to work closely with our Indigenous partners to ensure First Nations, Inuit and Métis across the country have access to essential services to protect their health and safety.
[English]
I will now turn to the topic of today’s meeting. For 2022-23, ISC’s Main Estimates are $39.6 billion. It should be noted that the Main Estimates are the first step in the fiscal cycle and do not include additional approvals or funding that stem from Budget 2022. Funding for additional approvals will be accessed through future Estimates.
In 2022-23, in partnership with Indigenous peoples, the department is focusing on four priority areas.
[Translation]
First, we want to advance health. As mentioned, Indigenous Services Canada is continuing to support Indigenous leadership and partners in the response and recovery to the COVID-19 pandemic. The department is also working towards a distinctions-based Indigenous mental wellness strategy, the advancement of Joyce’s Principle, and the elimination of anti-Indigenous racism in the health care system.
The second priority area is supporting families, specifically in the areas of child and family services, education and income, as they are important interrelated elements that enable well-being.
This includes the ongoing implementation of the Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families, which supports families and the work to reform the system to be community-directed, child-centred and focused on prevention.
[English]
The third priority is helping build sustainable communities, from safe drinking water and housing to building and renovating school facilities and enabling community infrastructure. ISC is working to ensure important sustainable infrastructure is in place to support Indigenous communities and their people. In particular, work continues to eliminate all remaining long-term drinking water advisories on reserve by identifying causes, investing in appropriate infrastructure and preventing short-term advisories from becoming long-term.
The final priority area is supporting Indigenous communities in self-determination. This includes supports for governance capacity, accessibility for Indigenous businesses, a funding escalator for the New Fiscal Relationship grant and expanding eligibility to additional First Nations communities.
[Translation]
The 2022-23 Main Estimates reflect a net increase of approximately $26.1 billion, or 193% compared to last year’s Main Estimates. The major changes are aligned with the four priority areas.
First, there’s an increase of $22 billion for out-of-court settlements to advance Canada’s overall commitment to reconciliation.
Next, there is a net increase of $1.2 billion for infrastructure in Indigenous communities and improvements for access to safe, clean drinking water in First Nations communities.
[English]
There is an increase of $646.8 million for First Nations Child and Family Services, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal orders implementation and non-compliance motion settlement; a net increase of $536.7 million for non-insured health benefits for First Nations and Inuit to ensure ongoing access to health care services; and a net increase of $377.6 million for the continued implementation of Jordan’s Principle and supporting the Inuit Child First Initiative. Together, these investments help continue our work with Indigenous partners to address our commitment to reconciliation.
[Translation]
With respect to spending for social services, the funding contained in these estimates will enable us to continue to deliver on the department’s mandate, including establishing a foundation for a more equitable future for First Nations children, their families and communities.
For example, we have committed to significant investments to address long-term reform of First Nations Child and Family Services. We will continue to work with our partners to empower Indigenous peoples to reclaim jurisdiction, at their own pace, so that they can determine what is best for their children and ensure the rights of children are affirmed.
[English]
With respect to infrastructure spending, we recognize our role in working with partners to close socio-economic gaps between Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities and people. Since 2015, significant work has been done: 135 long-term drinking water advisories have been lifted and 965 water and wastewater projects have been supported, including new treatment plants, renovations and upgrades to existing systems, and training and capacity-building projects. In addition, 2,155 housing-related infrastructure projects have been completed and 1,219 projects are currently under way. This will result in improvements to 9,065 homes and the construction of 4,438 new homes.
[Translation]
These Main Estimates are enabling us to collaborate with Indigenous partners to address systemic inequities and disparities, and to support the transfer of services to Indigenous partners.
I look forward to discussing any aspects of these estimates with you, and my colleagues and I welcome your questions. Thank you.
Darlene Bess, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Thank you, honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss the 2022-23 Main Estimates for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada. I would like to recognize that I am speaking to you today from the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg people.
I am accompanied by my colleagues from the department who will help respond to your questions.
[English]
The funding in the Main Estimates allows CIRNAC to continue on a path to renewing relationships with Indigenous people, to further its work to modernize institutional structures and governance to support self-determination, to progress on righting wrongs from the past towards Indigenous reconciliation and, finally, to advance its work to protect the environment and ensure prosperity, sustainability and health in the North.
The 2022-23 Main Estimates provided CIRNAC with $5.8 billion, a net increase of approximately $1.1 billion when compared to last year’s Main Estimates of $4.7 billion. The major items that contribute to the net increase in CIRNAC’s Main Estimates this year are the additional investments to settle specific claims equal to approximately $1.2 billion, as well as investments in infrastructure, projects and Indigenous communities. CIRNAC’s 2022-23 Main Estimates are mainly comprised of approximately $4.8 billion, or 82%, in transfer payments and approximately $1 billion, or 17%, in operating expenditures.
Mr. Chair, I would like to take a moment to highlight some of the work these estimates are allowing CIRNAC to undertake in 2022-23. With this funding, CIRNAC is accelerating the renewal of the relationship with Indigenous peoples. Specifically, the department will increase the number of treaties, self-government agreements and other constructive arrangements concluded, as well as the settlement of claims including specific claims in relation to historic treaty obligations and to the management of First Nations funds and assets.
The department also continues to implement the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Call to Action related to missing children and unmarked burial sites, as well as the implementation of the Federal Pathway to Address Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ People, which is the Government of Canada’s contribution through the 2021 National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence and advance reconciliation. Work is also progressing to modernize institutional structures and governance to support Indigenous visions of self-determination by collaborating with our partners to advance joint priorities, co-develop policies and monitor ongoing progress.
As well, CIRNAC is advancing work in the North through the establishment of regional governance mechanisms and implementation plans for Canada’s Arctic and Northern Policy Framework with territorial, Indigenous and provincial partners. In addition, the department continues to help make nutritious food and essential items more affordable and accessible to residents of eligible, isolated Northern communities, supports clean energy and climate monitoring projects and continues remediation of Northern contaminated sites.
We look forward to discussing these estimates with you and welcome your questions. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Bess.
Margaret Buist, Vice-President, Policy, Planning, Communications and NPMO, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency: Chair and senators. I’m appearing virtually due to limited space in your room for witnesses. I’m appearing on behalf of the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, or CanNor.
[Translation]
CanNor is responsible for promoting economic development in the territories. We work closely with northern businesses, innovators and communities to fuel economic growth and create more well-paying jobs for middle-class Canadians.
[English]
CanNor’s investments are guided by our pan-territorial growth strategy which highlights four interrelated priority areas: resource development, economic infrastructure, a skilled workforce and innovation and diversification.
[Translation]
This growth strategy and territorial strategy are aligned with the objectives of the Arctic and Northern Policy Frameworks that are guiding federal investments and activities through 2030 to ensure a future in which northern and Arctic citizens and communities can thrive, strong and secure.
[English]
For example, some recent CanNor investments include building a skilled workforce with a $4.6 million investment into the Old Crow Solar Project to the Vuntut Gwitchin in the Yukon to equip community members with knowledge and expertise to manage ongoing operations. We helped close foundational infrastructure gaps. We provided $3 million as another example to the Tlicho government in the Northwest Territories to help connect businesses and communities to high-speed internet.
[Translation]
In Nunavut, the agency is providing Qulliq Energy Corporation with $1.2 million to study geothermal potential in support of long-term energy security planning.
[English]
To help diversify the economy, CanNor helped small Indigenous women-led businesses like the Yukon Timber Co. expand their services through a $100,000 contribution.
For our Main Estimates, CanNor will receive approximately $93 million in funding for 2022-23, and this is comprised of $70 million in grants and contributions, $21 million for operating and $2 million for statutory benefits.
[Translation]
This represents net increases of $12 million in grants and contributions, and $1 million in operating funding over last year.
[English]
Funding increases come primarily from Budget 2021 initiatives intended to support communities as they recover from the effects of the pandemic and to create jobs and promote long-term growth.
[Translation]
There is also an increase in the 2019 budget for Inclusion Diversification and Economic Advancement in the North, which is CanNor’s primary program to support economic development and innovation in the North.
[English]
The decreases in our Main Estimates are the result of sunsetting programs such as the Regional Air Transportation Initiative.
This fiscal year, CanNor has already approved $24 million in project funding, $6 million supporting 40 single-year projects and $18 million for 36 multi-year projects. These projects are spread across all three territories, with 24% in Nunavut, 32% in the Northwest Territories and 44% in Yukon.
[Translation]
CanNor will continue to work with its partners to advance sustainable economic development and broader Government of Canada priorities in the North. Until November 30, the agency is looking for expressions of interest for new single or multi-year projects that will begin in the 2023-24 fiscal year.
[English]
Priority will be given to projects that address business and community economic development needs in line with our pan-territorial growth strategy.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Buist, for your comments.
Senators, we will proceed with questions. You will have a maximum of five minutes each for the first round and a maximum of three minutes each for the second round. Therefore, please ask your questions directly, and to the witnesses, please respond concisely. The clerk will inform me when the time is over by raising her hand.
Senator Marshall: My first question is for Indigenous Services Canada. I want to pick up where we left off in June.
These questions are for Mr. Thompson. Could you just give us an update? First of all, the significant increase in Main Estimates, is that primarily because of the $20 billion package for compensation to First Nations children and families? It’s just that, isn’t it?
Mr. Thompson: It’s mostly related to that. We have a number of other programs that are fluctuating. We have had some investments in other areas, but it is correct that the big portion of the increase is related to compensation for child and family service.
Senator Marshall: Is it the full $20 billion?
Mr. Thompson: That is correct; it’s $20 billion.
Senator Marshall: So there is nothing in there for long-term reforms to the system, because that is another $20 billion. Is there any money in there for that?
Mr. Thompson: No, this is correct. We are currently in negotiation on long-term reform. Important elements of reform are taking place. At this moment, the department is spending way more money on prevention services, for instance. We have seen a significant increase in terms of prevention funding in the organization. If you are looking at the grants and contribution portion of the child and family services, we have seen a huge increase over the year. That is mostly because we have started changing the way we are doing that. But it doesn’t include the investments that are required and that are under negotiation right now in long-term reform.
Senator Marshall: Okay. I understand. Thank you.
Regarding the $20 billion that is in there in the estimates now for the compensation to First Nations children and families, my understanding or recollection is that there was an agreement in principle. Is there a final agreement now? Is there money being paid out? I am just trying to get a handle on exactly where you are in the process.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question, senator.
An agreement in principle has been reached. Currently, we are with the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. They have to make a decision about whether or not the final agreement is satisfying the orders on compensation. That is the next step. We are expecting to have a decision from the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal in the upcoming weeks.
Once we have a decision from the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, and if the decision is positive and it is determined that the compensation satisfies the orders, then the next step will be for the parties to bring the final agreement to the Federal Court so the Federal Court can determine that the agreement is valid.
Once we have a decision from the Federal Court, then we will be in a position to initiate the next steps in compensation, as I mentioned in our last discussion. The money would be put into a trust fund, and there would be a third-party administrator who would be appointed to start identifying the eligibility and distributing the compensation.
These are the next steps for us.
Senator Marshall: None of that money has been paid out? It is there in the Main Estimates, but there has been no disbursement?
Mr. Thompson: Exactly. This is correct.
Senator Marshall: Have you proceeded to the point where you determine the rates of compensation, whether it will be $5,000 per child or $40,000? Is that in the future? That has not been decided yet?
Mr. Thompson: Yes, this will be determined by the third parties. There was flexibility in the agreement to determine how compensation would be distributed. This is something that will be a part of the next steps.
Senator Marshall: I understand what you say about the $19.8 billion for the long-term reforms. It’s a five-year program, so do you know how much is going out each year? Is that still undecided?
Mr. Thompson: At this moment, I do not have the information in the absence of an agreement on long-term reform. We are working on looking at the different proposals, but it is still under negotiation.
Senator Marshall: Okay. You know that you have $19.8 billion and you just have to decide what years you are going to spend it and what you are going to spend it on.
Mr. Thompson: Exactly.
Senator Marshall: That’s great. Thank you very much.
I also have a question for Ms. Bess. You do not get any of the money out of those $20 billion programs, but under grants, there are some significant increases. The first two are the ones that I am interested in, the grants to First Nations to settle specific claims negotiated by Canada and the grants to implement comprehensive land claims and self-government. Are they final? Has that money been paid out, or has the money just been approved and you are waiting for something to happen before you pay it out?
Ms. Bess: Thank you for the question, senator.
The first one in terms of the grants to First Nations to settle specific claims was funding for the Siksika Nation Global Settlement Agreement to resolve the 1910 Surrender Claim of all grievances with the Youngman, McHugh and Stimson legal actions. I will let my colleague Garima provide more details on that one.
With the second one — grants to implement comprehensive land claims and self-government agreements and other agreements to address Section 35 Rights — the biggest part is related to infrastructure project money that we have received.
I will just pass it over to Garima to speak about the Siksika Nation Global Settlement Agreement.
Senator Marshall: Yes, okay, and the progress as to whether it is being paid out.
Ms. Bess: Yes.
Garima Dwivedi, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Resolutions & Partnerships, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: I will actually ask one of my colleagues, Eric Marion, who is joining us virtually, to provide the details of the Siksika Nation Global Settlement Agreement.
Eric Marion, Director General, Fiscal Branch, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: To answer your question specifically, yes, the amount of $1.3 billion has been paid out to Siksika. It was to address grievances arising from 1910 actions. That settlement was made out of court. It was addressing 16 grievances that the community was bringing against Canada. All of the amount has been paid, and there was a ceremony to celebrate that achievement in June.
Senator Marshall: Just to make sure, is that the $2.327 billion or the $1.282 billion?
Mr. Marion: The $1.3 billion.
Senator Marshall: Okay. And that’s fully paid out?
Mr. Marion: It has been fully paid out.
Senator Marshall: Did I understand that this is just one agreement?
Mr. Marion: You are correct. That was one specific agreement.
Senator Marshall: There is one recipient.
Mr. Marion: One recipient, yes.
Senator Marshall: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Thank you to the witnesses for being with us this evening. My question is for the representative from the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency. I and some of my colleagues around the table, as members of another committee, the National Security, Defence, and Veterans Affairs Committee, we have just come back from a northern tour to look at the Arctic development initiative. We have seen a lack of infrastructure, not only in terms of port infrastructure, but also communications infrastructure.
You alluded in your opening remarks to investments in the internet. Can you tell us more about that? There are a lot of deficiencies in terms of development, unlike Greenland or Alaska, where they have fibre optics. That’s not the case in the North. Your budget of $92 million seems rather modest, given the challenges I’m seeing in terms of distance and community development. Can you tell us more about what’s going on? Are there any public-private partnerships to invest more in communications?
[English]
Ms. Buist: Thank you for your question.
I talked a little bit about one of our projects. What CanNor does is fund feasibility studies. I’ll give you another example. The Kivalliq Hydro-Fibre Link is a very important project being put forward in the North right now. CanNor provided the feasibility funding for that type of project because we are designed to fund small and medium enterprises — not very large infrastructure projects. We certainly see an increasing demand for infrastructure and improved communications, so we fund the small and medium enterprises that work in those areas. As I said, we fund the feasibility studies to get things going. We are often first at the table to provide that initial capital that allows the project to be studied to determine whether or not it can go ahead.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Thank you. My next question is for the representatives from Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada. Ms. Bess, your budget is quite a bit larger, so I’m going to stick with the infrastructure theme. In a report from the Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples that was tabled in June 2021, you said that more could be done to address infrastructure gaps in First Nations communities. I would like to know this: What is the amount of infrastructure spending in these Main Estimates?
[English]
Ms. Bess: Thank you for your question.
In these Main Estimates, there is approximately $353.5 million that has been allocated for infrastructure. We have it broken down into a few areas. We have $320.3 million of it that has been allocated as grants to implement comprehensive land claims and self-government agreements and other agreements to address section 35 rights for the self-government agreements. We also have another $26.3 million that is a grant to Métis Nation British Columbia from the Indigenous Community Infrastructure Fund, and $18 million contributions for the Metis Settlements General Council. Then we have a small portion of $5 million that is going to the North for First Nations communities in the Northwest Territories with non-reserve lands and to Métis communities not represented by a Métis national organization and not subject to self-government agreements or a modern treaty.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: The report also suggested that the gaps could perhaps be filled by using the monetization system proposed by the First Nations Finance Authority.
Does your department intend to adopt this approach?
[English]
Ms. Bess: Thank you for the question. I will ask my colleague Georgina Lloyd to respond to that question.
Georgina Lloyd, Director General, Implementation Branch, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Good evening, and thank you for the question.
In terms of the response to the question, I do not necessarily think it is a monetization effort. The purpose of these funds and one of the key principles in rolling out the infrastructure funds from the Indigenous Community Infrastructure Fund flowing from Budget 2021 was really to enhance self-determination. The funding that will flow through Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is really intended for Indigenous partners — Inuit, Métis, self-government and modern treaty partners — to be able to determine their infrastructure priorities as they see fit and make those decisions that work for them best. Canada, in this case, has not made the individual infrastructure decisions. They get to invest where they see they have the highest need.
Senator Gignac: Thank you.
Senator Smith: Welcome to our guests tonight, both in person and through technology.
As Senator Gignac mentioned, a group went up, looking at defence and looking at infrastructure through Iqaluit. Three of us went for just a short trip to understand the lay of the land, and then the total group went up to really study moving forward. I’m sitting here listening to your feedback, and I’m trying to understand the coordination between your departments.
This is interesting. We visited the North for three or four days, a small group of us, but with a bigger group. I had the privilege of visiting Iqaluit and met numerous community and business leaders, and this is what they said: We want policies that are developed by the North, for the North and in the North. There is a strong message that comes out.
I am trying to understand, and I guess, Ms. Buist, it probably would come back to you initially. We are talking about northern economic development, and the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency will have $93 million in 2022. I’m sitting here wondering what kind of development you will do with $93 million over a territory that is as large as or larger than continental Europe. It is a huge territory. This is not a criticism of you folks. I’m trying to understand how you are coordinated to get actual results.
Philippe, you said you have $39.6 billion — up from $23 billion, which is a huge increase. You have four priorities. I do understand that, but I’m wondering what is actually going to get done now. What are you doing? Is this money set up to pay off all the land claims or move forward with the land claims? What type of plan is going to take place with infrastructure and some of the more important things to the people who live there and want to move forward?
I’m not trying to be foolish. I’m trying to understand how you are coordinated so that you will actually get some results other than just paying money to people. The people up in the area that we visited are so keen. They want to move forward. They do not want the paternalistic attitude that comes from Ottawa. This is one thing that they really stated.
Could you help me understand what the plan is other than paying off land claims and then maybe looking at some projects? You only have $93 million to do it. You have a lot of money out. Where is it going to go? How will it get done? How will you coordinate that so we are going to see some results? Sorry, I got a little excited.
Ms. Buist: I think that I can pull a question out of that. I will start quickly and perhaps turn it over to colleagues.
First of all, $93 million is not the total Government of Canada investment in economic development in the North. CanNor has a specific purpose, and one of its purposes is to fund small and medium enterprises in the North, and we do that through the money we have. We also have an important role in pathfinding and bringing together all of the federal government around specific projects. Mining, in particular, through our Northern Projects Management Office is one example.
We also have an overarching policy framework that is built in the North by northerners, and that is our pan-territorial growth strategy. Northern Affairs, which is part of Crown-Indigenous Relations, has stickhandled the Arctic and Northern Policy Framework, which, again, is a built-in-the-North overarching policy framework that guides Government of Canada, territorial government and Indigenous partners’ participation in the North.
I would also say, just quickly, that there are many departments that invest in the North: Infrastructure Canada, NRCan, Northern Affairs. There is a lot of money that goes into economic development, infrastructure, mining support, low-carbon economy initiatives through many federal departments that come together through cross-departmental committees and are governed by these policy frameworks.
I am going to stop there in terms of the coordination and turn to my colleague Wayne Walsh who can talk to you more.
Wayne Walsh, Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Thank you for that, Margaret, and thank you very much, senator, for that question.
In the North for the North has been a very important message that we have been hearing from our partners. When we co-developed the Arctic and Northern Policy Framework which was released in 2019 setting out a number of goals and objectives, I think that there was a realization and an acknowledgment that when it comes to the North, solutions from Ottawa don’t work. It has to come from the local communities, and the Arctic and Northern Policy Framework is that linchpin.
We do have, as Darlene mentioned in her opening comments, a governance structure that coordinates not just the federal government family in terms of our participation and our investments in the North but also coordinates our partners. We’re in constant discussions with territorial, Indigenous, civil society and private sector about what the needs and priorities of the North are.
I think Margaret captured it really well; $93 million is not the totality of the investment that the federal government makes. We have investments across a multiple of departments which she listed, and I would include the Canadian Coast Guard, DFO, Department of National Defence and others.
We are quite active, but it is being driven by our partners in the North in terms of what they have expressed as their needs and desires. Thank you for your question.
Senator Duncan: If I could make one small clarification to the tour that has been mentioned, my colleagues did not visit the Yukon. It is a different circumstance, as you are well aware, between the three territories, entirely different circumstances.
I’d like to follow up on a point made by Senator Smith about coordination between Indigenous Services and Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. There are a couple of line items that might help with that. There are grants to provide income support to on-reserve residents and status Indians in the Yukon Territory, and there are contributions to provide income support to on-reserve residents and status Indians in the Yukon. I have three questions about that. My understanding has always been that we do not have reserves in the Yukon. We have lands set aside, and we have 11 of 14 settled First Nation governments. These grants and contributions to provide income support, is it for both the 11 of the 14 settled First Nations as well as those who are non-settled?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. With regard to the way the income support is being administered in the Yukon, I will ask my colleague Mr. Peckham to answer that question.
David Peckham, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs Sector and Partnerships Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the question, senator.
I would be happy to provide a detailed breakdown for income assistance payments in Yukon. Broadly speaking, they are administered directly to the department, to those living in the Yukon who are eligible, and I can provide those breakdowns on how that works in writing, if that’s acceptable.
Senator Duncan: Certainly, it is. There is a coordination issue if this is provided to both — Council of Yukon First Nations — then it doesn’t separate out and recognize that government-to-government relationship. That’s my concern. It’s an important recognition that exists, as you are well aware.
I’d also like a breakdown or an explanation of the distinction — in Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, there are grants to support the Giant Mine Oversight Board and research for arsenic trioxide. Giant Mine is in the Northwest Territories, and there are transfer payments to the government of Yukon for care, maintenance, remediation and management of contaminated sites in the Yukon. I’m guessing that’s probably the Faro Mine and other mine sites. Is the difference because of the Devolution Transfer Agreement? Why is it that one is grants and one is a transfer payment?
Ms. Buist: Thank you very much for the question, senator. I will ask my colleague Wayne Walsh to respond to that question.
Mr. Walsh: Thank you for that question.
I think there is a difference in the devolution agreements. Devolution agreements in the Northwest Territories are structured slightly differently than they are in the Yukon. In terms of why it is a grant versus a contribution, that’s a good question, and I will have to report back to the committee on that in terms of those technicalities.
Senator Duncan: When providing answers in writing, the chair will advise you there is likely a deadline coming very soon to receive those answers.
I mentioned status Indians a few minutes ago. The Senate Indigenous Peoples Committee, as you’re well aware, did a report called Make it stop! Ending the remaining discrimination in Indian registration. I understand that Indigenous Services is undergoing an engagement process to try to address some of the issues. Preferably, of course, the Senate committee would recommend that you address all the initiatives, but you are addressing some of them. Can you advise me where the line item is and how much will be spent by the department in addressing these issues?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question.
I had the privilege of being in Yukon a month ago, and I had the privilege of visiting the registration office. This is also where income assistance is being delivered. It was great to see the operations.
In terms of the coordination of operations between the organizations, at Indigenous Services Canada we have a presence delivering health support. Our health programming is delivered directly through our department, and our other programs are delivered by our colleagues in CIRNAC. You were asking about coordination, and this is a good example where we have great coordination between our two organizations.
With regard to the question specific to registration, I will ask my colleague Paula Hadden-Jokiel if she has a precise answer to provide to the committee on the way registration is being delivered to the Yukon.
Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: Good evening. I am happy to be joining you from the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people.
Thank you, Senator Duncan, for the question. I don’t have the specifics on the line item dollars, but as you correctly mentioned, our team is undergoing engagement and discussion with partners currently to address the remaining sex inequities in the act. Those discussions are ongoing currently and engaging with partners, and we hope to be bringing some proposed amendments shortly. We’ll get back to you in writing in terms of the details on the line item.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you to the witnesses for being here this evening.
My question is for the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency. It’s on food costs and security. As many know, the Northern territories deal with high rates of food insecurity and elevated food costs and, of course, the remoteness and isolation of communities contribute to the high cost of transportation and labour, which therefore impacts the price and accessibility of food.
In the coming year, you will be implementing a funding program called the Northern Isolated Community Initiatives Fund to help enhance food security in the territories. Your goal is to spur innovation and highlight new techniques by means of service delivery models and adopting technologies in the Northern food system. Can you elaborate in what ways you will be improving service delivery and transforming the Northern food system? Are adequate resources available in order to show a significant progress and show positive short-term results on this front?
Ms. Buist: Thank you for your question.
You have described our food-related programs, the Northern Isolated Communities Initiative, and it is a program that has just started over the last couple of years. It’s a new program designed to enhance innovation with respect to food. It’s not designed to replace Nutrition North or to deal specifically with food delivery or the high cost of food; it is designed to spur innovation. It has been a series of submissions that folks have made. We’ve selected a few recipients of the early funding for the innovative ideas. We’re providing them with an opportunity this fall at the Northern conference to come together with food experts to run their ideas by them and get advice on how those projects will proceed. It’s early, it’s seed granting and it’s enhancing innovation to try to come up with some built-in-the-North ideas for how to address food security on a long-term basis and allowing communities to explore their own ideas. For some, a greenhouse would be something they would want to do, and for others it might be innovative ways to freeze fish or country food to allow those communities to look at marketing and types of food to enhance the country foods, like reindeer or bison, in addition to caribou if they are facing concerns around dwindling caribou herds and ways to re-establish local herds. It’s those types of innovative projects that we’re trying to seed fund.
Senator Loffreda: It’s great to hear. Thank you for the answer. Hopefully, innovation leads to efficiency and increased accessibility, and eventually cost is always an issue, so lower costs. Thank you for that answer.
I’d like to continue on the food costs and insecurity and maybe lean in a little more, or dive in. My next question is for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada. If we may, I would like to talk about inflation. Just today, Statistics Canada released the most recent data for September on the Consumer Price Index, and we learned that the food price growth remained broad based in September. For information purposes, Canadians paid 7.6% more for meat, 9.7% for dairy, 11.8% for fresh vegetables and bakery, and it goes on and on.
I note in the estimates that your department is contributing over $117 million to support access to healthy foods in isolated Northern communities. We know that Northern, remote and fly-in communities are already paying way more than Canadians in urban centres, for example, and now there is inflation on top of that. Can you address how this money is going to help Indigenous people access and afford healthy food? Food affordability and insecurity are clearly major issues in Indigenous communities in the North. I was glad to hear there are programs that are innovating and could lead to greater accessibility and eventually lower costs. Ms. Bess, the question is for you.
Ms. Bess: Thank you very much for the question, senator.
You’re right. Things are changing even as we put these estimates together. We do have a Nutrition North subsidy and some funding that’s going out that way. I will ask my colleague Wayne Walsh in Northern Affairs to speak to how we’re addressing the inflation factors and what we are looking at going forward.
Mr. Walsh: Thank you for that great question. Obviously, it is top of mind not just for northerners and people in remote Indigenous communities but for all Canadians.
The Nutrition North program was introduced in 2010. It’s a retail subsidy where we work with retailers and suppliers and we subsidize nutritious and perishable foods. That program expanded somewhat during the pandemic to include non-food items such as hand sanitation and other health-related measures to help people get through the pandemic.
Our data has shown over the course of the program that food prices in remote and isolated communities actually decreased since the inception of the program. Certainly, while we see the trend going up in the rest of the country, those foods that have been subsidized have remained somewhat stable, so that’s a good thing. Regardless of that, food is still very expensive in the North and isolated communities.
The government recently introduced over the course of the last few years other programs to supplement the retail subsidy. Any time you get a situation where you have to transport food, it will be more expensive. What can we do in order to incentivize local food production? My colleague Margaret from CanNor spoke about the innovation fund that CanNor has. We have also instituted a harvest support grant where we pay Indigenous organizations, and they determine how they will support harvesters and essentially provide the harvesters a subsidy in order to go out and harvest traditional food to share back with the community. That’s an important element to augment the retail aspect of it but also has a very important cultural aspect of it.
In Budget 2021, we will be rolling out a new community food fund. We hope that will spur on more innovation moving forward. I see the chair is trying to cut me off, so thank you.
Senator Boehm: On April 26, Indigenous Services Canada joined us on Main Estimates. At that time, I asked a question about universal broadband access in Indigenous communities. I was part of this tour up to the Arctic, and I wanted to follow up because, while we were there, we noticed that internet service was very bad. In fact, at one meeting we had the chief superintendent of the RCMP, he could not even connect his people in Ottawa with us. I want to follow up on the question I asked then, and I asked a similar one yesterday to the Canada Revenue Agency regarding the Auditor General’s report, Access to Benefits for Hard-to-Reach Populations.
Mr. Thompson, you’re here now, and Ms. Hadden-Jokiel, who is also joining us, answered in April that connectivity in remote and First Nations communities is a government priority and that ISC works closely with ISED, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. To quote Ms. Hadden-Jokiel:
To date, since last year, there was about $76 million invested in connectivity projects. So it varies from year to year depending on the priorities identified by communities.
Here are my questions: In the nearly six months since that meeting in April, what work has been done with communities themselves and with ISED and other government departments to continue improving broadband access in First Nations communities across Canada, and in particular Northern and remote communities? I’m wondering about the process that you undertake to ensure that the so-called priorities identified by communities are heard and actioned. Are you anticipating any significant increases or decreases in funding for connectivity projects as you look ahead to next year’s estimates? Since we all know that the one-size-fits-all approach rarely works, especially in government, what are the different approaches that you are taking to connectivity in Inuit and Northern communities specifically versus First Nations communities and other less remote areas of Canada?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much, senator, for the question. I will turn to Ms. Hadden-Jokiel to provide the answer.
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: Thank you, senator, for the question and for your interest in this very important issue.
As we have previously discussed, reliable high-speed internet is essential for all Canadians for them to be able to participate fully in the modern digital economy. As I said last time, ISED is the lead department in the implementation of the national Connectivity Strategy. We have been working closely with them, and there is a project we’re doing jointly that I will highlight for you. I will say that throughout COVID, the impact of being underserved for these communities and the increase in isolation has become increasingly apparent. Our most recent data still shows that about 35% of First Nations households meet the universal service objective of 50 over 10 megabits per second, so there is still a lot of work to do in this area.
Since the last time we updated you, senator, there has been a modest increase in investment. The most recent data I have is our investment as of the end of June, and we have invested $79.6 million to support 42 connectivity projects, and 26 of those have been complete. These investments are benefiting 286 communities.
In terms of our strategy, certainly co-funding and looking to leverage partnerships with other partners is one of the strategies that we have. One of the ones I wanted to highlight was a joint investment with partners at ISED to benefit five fly-in communities in northern Ontario. There are 880 kilometres of broadband fibre-optic cable being replaced to bring long-standing issues for five communities in the Mattawa region. ISC provided $2.2 million to fund the design and engineering cost for the broadband fibre backbone build, and ISED is also contributing funds. I don’t have the details of their contribution.
Senator Boehm: Thank you. I was referring more to Arctic communities rather than Mattawa, Ontario, but that’s fine. That helps me. That’s in progress, and the latest data you have is until the end of June, so that’s two months after we last discussed that. Thank you.
If I have time, I would like to ask a question of CIRNAC.
The Chair: Please do.
Senator Boehm: Thank you, chair.
Senator Duncan touched on this. This is on the issue of devolution and Northern governance. I know Yukon has been managing its own land and natural resources since 2003, and devolution in the Northwest Territories took effect in 2014. I would be curious to know where things stand in Nunavut, since you have budgeted money for this. More importantly, as we all know, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act became law in Canada in June of this year. Have the principles of self-government and self-determination changed this process and/or timeline for devolution in Nunavut, given the acceptance of the declaration?
Ms. Bess: Thank you for the question. I will turn it over to my colleague Wayne Walsh to provide you an update on the Nunavut devolution and then my colleague Georgina Lloyd to talk about UNDRIP and if that has changed things, or perhaps Wayne could do that too.
Mr. Walsh: Thank you for that great question, senator.
The short answer to your second question is no. UNDRIP hasn’t changed our approach to devolution because we have been circumspect in how we approached devolution negotiations in Nunavut. NTI, the land claim organization, is a full party to the negotiations. We’re also undertaking some significant section 35 consultations with Indigenous organizations that have rights and interests within Nunavut and making sure that any impacts that devolution might have on them are properly accommodated.
You will know that we did sign an agreement in principle in Nunavut a few years ago. We are in the final stretches of final agreement negotiations. We are hoping to be able to conclude those negotiations soon and then move towards an implementation phase where we’ll see a final transfer of all the land and water jurisdictions to the government of Nunavut. I believe it’s a three-year implementation phase from the moment that we sign the agreement. Those negotiations are ongoing. They are in the final stretches. Things are positive. I hope that answers your question.
Senator Boehm: Thank you.
Senator Pate: Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us.
My question is for CIRNAC and Indigenous Services Canada, although if others want to jump in, I welcome that. As has already had some discussion, the housing affordability crisis that we’re seeing throughout the country is particularly acute in the North and is disproportionately impacting, of course, Indigenous and Inuit communities.
Those of us who have been up North have also seen first-hand the overcrowding that you all know exist, as well as things like the mould, that has been rampant, and the fact that those conditions also give rise to make it more likely that we’ll see the spreading of diseases during the pandemic and also other chronic illnesses, interpersonal friction and poor socio-economic and educational outcomes for kids.
In a pre-budget submission, it was estimated it would cost $3 billion over the next 10 years to build new houses and fix remaining homes. The government pledged $150 million between 2022 and 2024, as well as $835 million over the next seven years to address the issue. I’m curious as to how your departments plan to work together with other departments to help ensure that affordable safe housing exists given that it seems to be lacking some $2 billion in funding.
I’ve noted that every time I have been up North, there seems to be no shortage of resources to build jails, which is an area I know well. There is the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, the TRC and the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls calls to action and for justice. I’m wondering whether there is coordination with those bodies that seem to have seemingly endless resources to build prison cells. That development doesn’t seem to be halting. What kind of coordination is happening there?
I say that not in any way to be facetious. The reality is that I have spoken to folks up there who talk about the jails being used for temporary shelters when shelters are overflowing and people have no place to go and they are afraid of people freezing. It seems to me that there needs to be some coordinated efforts, as well as some application of these various instruments to ensure not just the self-governance but that the resources are provided to ensure it goes in the correct direction. Any help you could give to enlighten me? If I misread this or misunderstood, I would happily be enlightened.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question, senator.
As we have mentioned previously in this committee, this is a concerted effort. There are many departments involved, especially when we are talking about situations in the North. There are my colleagues from CIRNAC, from CanNor, and when we talk about housing, CMHC is involved as well.
In terms of the budget for our department and our Main Estimates for housing, this year our Main Estimates were at $351 million for housing. It’s an increase from the $138 million we had in the Main Estimates. We see an increase in the investments in housing.
With regard to coordination and how things happen on ground, I would again turn to my colleague Paula Hadden-Jokiel to give us an impression of how our department is collaborating with partners with respect to questions on housing in the North.
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: In addition to the numbers that you provided, I would highlight that there were dedicated housing dollars in Budget 2021 — $596 million over three years — and in Budget 2022, for First Nations on reserve, there was $2.4 billion over five years for housing. We’re working closely with First Nations partners and organizations in terms of supporting communities to increase their housing stock and reduce overcrowding on reserves.
Pertaining to the collaboration, there is ongoing and regular collaboration among the federal departments, as our CFO indicated. There is close collaboration with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, CIRNAC and ourselves on a regular basis, and in our case, with the Assembly of First Nations. We also work closely with ITK on the Inuit-Crown Partnership Committee, and housing has been one of their main concerns as well. We have good collaboration with Indigenous partners and with the federal government departments. I would say Infrastructure Canada is also a regular partner at the table, particularly around other infrastructure supports in communities.
Ms. Buist: I can add that we do some funding, particularly in the communities in Nunavut, for innovative housing projects. For example, in Nunavut, we’ve done some funding for efficient rental housing with the aim of providing bachelor units for the housing-insecure Nunavummiut. We also provided funding for a modular housing plant to be developed in Cambridge Bay to look at different ways to build housing and to support Nunavummiut to look at ways to build housing in Nunavut for Nunavummiut.
Senator Pate: Thank you.
Senator Bovey: Thank you to all the witnesses.
I will follow up on Senator Pate, and I won’t take a long time on this because I have other questions. On housing, we’ve heard over many years the need for “in the North, by the North and for the North.” I have been up many times, and I agree that the mould in the houses is terrible. Why are we using southern building codes in a climate that is very distinctive? I have talked to architecture schools, asking what they are doing about developing building codes that are appropriate for the North. I was in Gjoa Haven a month ago — maybe not even that long ago — on other business, and they were telling me they couldn’t get teachers and nurses up there because there was nowhere for them to live.
My question is now going to move into health and training. I have just come from the Social Affairs Committee where we are dealing with a special study on the Federal Framework for Suicide Prevention. I note that Indigenous Services Canada looks after primary health care and education. I would like to know what kind of funding is going to the suicide prevention frameworks in the Arctic and how they are coordinating with the Federal Framework for Suicide Prevention. It is loud and clear that counsellors should be trained northerners living there consistently rather than people flying in and out. If we can have an answer to that, then I have a question on infrastructure.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question, senator.
I believe that the question on suicide prevention will cut across a number of programs that we have within the organization because there are different dimensions to it. I’m sure that a lot of my colleagues would have something to say about what they do in education and health services and housing. A lot of things have an impact, as you know. If we look solely at mental wellness funding that we have in the organization for this fiscal year, our Main Estimates show a figure of $545.7 million for mental wellness, an increase from last year’s Main Estimates when it was $338 million.
With regard to the programming efforts, I would like to turn to my colleague Keith Conn from the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch to provide you with more information.
Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, senator, for the question.
We do work very closely with the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, the Northern Inuit organization who works closely with the Northern land claims organizations and other Inuit partners, to look at the Inuit-specific suicide prevention strategy, which has been well-resourced and well-funded. We can get you some more details on that and some of the work that they are doing to support communities in terms of prevention and education, as well as having a good, solid culturally rooted workforce in terms of supporting communities on the issue of suicide prevention. We can come back to you with some of those details. I do not have them all in front of me. My humble opinion is that it is working well in terms of the progress and the investments that are being made to date, according to our partners. We’ll circle back on that with more detail.
Senator Bovey: That would be wonderful.
May I ask an infrastructure question that ties to climate change? As one who has flown in and out of the North, with the melting of permafrost, I have had complaints from a number of airports that the runways are falling apart. This is Northern Manitoba as well as further North. I wonder what is being done for infrastructure for the airports that will allow these isolated communities perhaps become a little less isolated.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you, senator, for this great question.
I’m not sure to what extent our department is involved in airports. It may be Transport Canada that plays a greater role in that. I don’t know if my colleagues from infrastructure, because of their knowledge and situational awareness, have anything to contribute.
Senator Bovey: I would hope that the departments around this table would be able to connect, because I think that it is quite different from airport issues in the South. Maybe we can leave that as something to pick up on.
Ms. Bess: I would say that we do have several climate change programs for our department. We do have a Climate Change Preparedness in the North Program that is used to help Northern communities and governments in the North address climate change impacts. It is not specifically airport related, but there is money that is going out there to address various climate change initiatives.
My colleague Wayne Walsh may be able to provide more information.
Mr. Walsh: Thank you for the question, senator.
I’m happy to provide you more details in writing, but we do have a climate change adaptation program that is run out of Northern Affairs. It is not just specific to airports or transportation. You can imagine places like Tuktoyaktuk where there is erosion of the shorelines. It is an issue throughout the North. We do have programs that are aimed to respond to those.
Senator Bovey: It has been a big issue of mine since I joined the Senate.
The Chair: The first time that we had coffee, that was your first objective, transportation in the North.
Senator Bovey: It was.
[Translation]
Senator Audette: Thank you, of course, to the Anishinaabe Nation for having us here again. Thank you for your presentations and your messages. The choice of words will elicit a reaction, but if you don’t know me, what I’m about to share with you is full of love. I come from Schefferville; I come from Maliotenam, Quebec, so I live in the North, I feel it, I taste it, and I see it. Personally, when I’m told that it’s about investments, I see them more as reparations for the wrongs that have been imposed and caused.
Knowing as well that the skills have been there forever, I’m going to pick up on some of the housing issues. This is a Canada-wide crisis, but it’s also happening on aboriginal territories. How much housing is missing right now, if you have that data?
It’s important for me to know that numbers are being provided and described as investments, when there is a huge shortage and it has a major impact on the safety of women, children and our young sons as well. What investments would be required to fix this? What investments have been made or will be made to implement the national action plan and to respond to the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls? Those are my first questions. If there is any time left, I will continue.
Mr. Thompson: I can start with infrastructure. Thank you very much for the question and thank you for reminding us. There’s a lot of CFO language that’s used, and it’s important to remind us of some things. I appreciate it very much.
In terms of infrastructure funding for our department this year, it’s in several items in the Main Estimates. For housing funding in particular, we’re talking about $351 million. Then, for all the other community infrastructure and everything around that, we’re talking about $938 million.
For drinking water and waste, it’s $3.1 billion. On top of that, there is $285 million for health infrastructure, and $395 million for education infrastructure. The Main Estimates for our department this year total $5.1 billion in infrastructure. The figure I have in mind with respect to the gap is $30 billion. I’ll ask my colleague to validate that figure. I have it in mind, but not in writing. Ms. Hadden-Jokiel, is that an accurate number?
[English]
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: Thank you very much.
In terms of the gap in housing needs, senator, there are a few sources of information on that. There was an assessment completed in 2019 of current housing needs on reserve, and at that time 79,000 units were identified as being in need, 21,000 of those being new and 58,000 of those being major repairs. Our colleagues at Assembly of First Nations have also done a major report that is more recent, from August 2021. It was more of a cost analysis. They’ve estimated that $59.4 billion is required to address the current and future housing needs on reserve by 2040. Certainly there is a lot of unmet need out there in terms of housing.
The department is also currently undertaking an extensive inventory of needs. We have outreached to every First Nation community in the country on reserve to provide us a plan of what it would take to close the gap. It is broader than housing. It also includes other infrastructure needs. We’re undertaking that work currently as a part of our assessment of what it will take to close the infrastructure gap by 2030. We will have more information hopefully the next time we appear in front of you. The information from 2019 and from the AFN in 2021 is the most recent information we’re working with.
The Chair: Honourable senators, before we go to the second round, I have a question.
Mr. Thompson, Senator Bovey mentioned construction codes.
[Translation]
When I was Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry, we discussed commercial and industrial residential construction. The National Building Code is the same across Canada, from coast to coast. Is there a different building code in northern Canada from what we have in the South?
[English]
Mr. Thompson: Thank you, chair, for the question. I do not know. I do not have the answer to that question. Maybe Paula has the answer, or a colleague from one of the other organizations, but I personally would not know.
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: We will have to follow up with that detail in writing in terms of the details of the building codes.
Ms. Buist: The territories have their own building codes. Each of them is different, chair.
The Chair: Could we have that in writing? I have directed my question to Mr. Thompson. Can you do the follow-up and provide the committee, in writing, exactly the difference between the code in southern Canada versus looking at northern Canada?
[Translation]
Mr. Thompson, did you say yes?
[English]
Mr. Thompson: Yes. We can work with our colleagues to find the answers.
The Chair: Honourable senators, we will move on immediately to the second round.
Senator Marshall: Just staying on the topic of infrastructure, when you look at Crown-Indigenous Relations, there is $11 million, and it is contributions to support the construction and maintenance of community infrastructure. In Indigenous Services, there are also contributions to support the construction and maintenance of community infrastructure. What is the difference? Who does what with regard to community infrastructure? Are the responsibilities carved out? Does Crown-Indigenous Relations do certain things? What would you build? What is the $11.2 million for? What would it be for?
Ms. Bess: Thank you very much, Senator Marshall.
In terms of areas of responsibility, my colleague Mr. Thompson for ISC, the infrastructure that they do is related to First Nations on reserve and urban Indigenous populations, so it would be related to that. For CIRNAC, it is related to Inuit, Métis, self-governing and modern treaty Indigenous communities and northern communities. It sounds like there is a lot of overlap. There is coordination, but it is based upon the areas of responsibility of each of the organizations.
Senator Marshall: When we are talking about infrastructure and housing, we see in the budget that even with Canada Mortgage and Housing, there is going to be so many units constructed in a certain year and the money is there in the budget, but we never hear back as to how many actually got built.
Is there actually progress being made? As Senator Audette said about measuring the gap, do we say, okay, at the beginning of the year the gap was 50,000 units, but this year we were able to build 4,000. and now the gap is down to 46,000, or we have some new families so it is up to 46,000. Is there anything there that tallies it? We see so much money going into infrastructure, and we wonder — or I wonder — do those units actually get built? The money got spent, but were the units built? Are the people actually occupying them? Did the health centres actually get constructed? The focus seems to be on the budget and the money that is in the budget, like we’re doing now, but at the end of the day, nobody seems to care what exactly happened with the money. Could you just talk a little bit about that, for both of you?
Mr. Thompson: We absolutely report on the progress, and we have a full system to be able to report. We can provide detailed reports to the committee in terms of what has been accomplished.
What I mentioned in my introductory remarks is that since 2015, 2,155 housing-related infrastructure projects have been completed, and 1,219 are currently under way. This will result in improvement to 9,065 homes and the construction of 4,438 homes.
We report as well in our departmental results report on the progress that we made on the funding that we are receiving on a yearly basis. If the committee would like to have more information in terms of the different infrastructure projects by themes and breakdowns of what has been accomplished, we can provide that in writing.
Senator Marshall: I would like to know what the department plans to spend the $2.7 billion on for the construction and maintenance of community infrastructure. I would be very interested in that one. If you could provide that, that would be helpful. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Since my colleague Senator Audette is honouring us with her presence by participating in the committee’s work, I will give her my time, if I may.
Senator Audette: In terms of funding for the implementation of the National Action Plan on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, where are we with the investment, as you say?
Ms. Bess: Thank you for the question.
[English]
For the Main Estimates here for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, we have $109.1 million allocated to that. About $104.7 million is in grants and contributions towards that action plan.
I will ask my colleague Chantal Marin-Comeau to come online and speak about some of the work that’s being done with this funding.
[Translation]
Chantal Marin-Comeau, Director General, Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, Policy and Strategic Direction, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Thank you for the question. I’m speaking to you from the territory of the Algonquin Nation, since I’m in Gatineau. I’m pleased to answer your question, Senator Audette.
In the 2022-23 Main Estimates, $100 million will be used for five programs. The first program of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is for cultural spaces. It’s a program to build safe cultural spaces for women, girls and 2SLGBTQIA+ people. One of my colleagues can give you more details on that.
The second program in the Main Estimates is aimed at improving and increasing support for Indigenous women and two-spirit people, including organizations representing women, girls, and 2SLGBTQIA+ people. That is also included, and it’s a new program for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada.
The third program is to ensure the well-being of families and survivors. This is a new program that began in 2021, is continuing in 2022 and will continue in subsequent years. The program will directly fund organizations that will contribute to the well-being of the families of survivors, for commemorations and the whole cultural aspect.
The fourth program is data. We know that there are big data gaps related to missing Indigenous women and girls and 2SLGBTQIA+ people.
So this fourth major program is aimed at enhancing and funding Indigenous-led data projects, as well as to establish a national advisory council this year on missing and murdered Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQIA+ people. The next program is to create a secretariat for missing Indigenous women and girls within Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada. If you have any questions on other topics, I would be happy to answer them.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Marin-Comeau.
[English]
Senator Smith: I would like to ask a question of Ms. Buist, if I could. The Main Estimates include $10 million for contributions to support Aboriginal participation in the northern economy. Can you explain how the program works? How is the agency working to increase participation in the program, especially in the most remote communities? What metrics are going to be used to measure its success?
Ms. Buist: Yes, we have an Indigenous-specific funding program. In fact, we’re the only regional development agency that has Indigenous-specific economic development programming. In the past three years, we’ve invested $97 million in more than 250 Indigenous-led projects, which is about 65% of our regular programming. It’s just the reality in the North that most of our clients are Indigenous businesses.
Budget 2022 also announced an additional $15 million over five years for Indigenous economic development in the territories, and we were very pleased that long-term core funding for local and regional economic development capacity was reintroduced. It had been cut back in about 2014, and it was finally reintroduced. That will support communities and Indigenous rights holders to hire economic development officers and support capacity within their organizations.
In terms of the outreach, we are primarily in the North. Our staff live in all three territories, and they regularly do outreach into the remote communities. They fly into the remote communities and spend time with those communities, helping them develop economic plans and looking for opportunities for investment. That is a big part of the business that we do. We are not just situated in Ottawa and not just in the capitals in the North.
In terms of the metrics, the metrics that we measure are based on our expressions of interest, the proposals that we get, the success of the proposals and the long-term success of the businesses. We’re also starting to do much more data collection around Indigenous participation, jobs that are created and long-term jobs that are created. For example, we started in a community in Yukon with one job, and there are now 40 jobs coming out of the small amount of funding that we provided for that community. We are building more and more capacity to track that type of thing in terms of data, because there is a real dearth of data in general in the north, and certainly economic development data.
Senator Boehm: My question aligns very closely with that of Senator Smith just now, and it is for you, Ms. Buist.
Yesterday, the Minister of Northern Affairs — the minister for CanNor — announced a federal investment of more than $500,000 over two years to support a community economic development and business development tour that will assist entrepreneurs in accessing the information they need to start or grow their local businesses and, in turn, provide benefits to both local and territorial economies. The Nunavut Economic Developers Association, or NEDA, and representatives from five other federal, territorial and regional organizations will conduct in-person consultations in 24 Nunavut communities.
Here are my questions: To date, how much has CanNor invested in small business development in Nunavut? How many small businesses do you have in your registry in Nunavut? Does this investment have any amount earmarked to encourage and ensure the participation of women, particularly women Indigenous entrepreneurs?
The press release announcing this investment also states that CanNor is investing $21 million to help job creators support organizations to future-proof their businesses, build resiliency and prepare for growth, among other things, in the transition to a green economy. Given the particular impacts of climate change in the northern and Arctic regions, how much of the focus on future-proofing and resilience is on dealing with climate change specifically? If you could take a crack at that, I would be grateful.
Ms. Buist: Thank you. That is a lot to unpack. For some of it, I might have to get back to you. I do not have the Nunavut breakdown at my fingertips to the level of detail that you have asked for.
Yes, you are referring to the important announcement that the minister made that we work very closely, obviously, with all of the territories. In my opening statement, I indicated that about 40% of our funding goes to businesses in Nunavut. I can give you more details in writing about the stats about how many and things like that.
In terms of climate resiliency, it is really an important focus of our funding right now in all three territories. Transitioning to low-carbon economies, climate resilience, green technology — those are some of the priorities that northerners have asked us to look at in terms of funding projects, and they come within that pan-territorial growth strategy that I mentioned earlier.
We also have national programs. During the pandemic, we delivered a number of programs: the Jobs and Growth Fund, Tourism Relief Fun and a community fund as well. We deliver a women’s entrepreneurship fund, and have done that over the last couple of years, that specifically targets groups in Nunavut — all three territories, but your question is specifically about Nunavut.
That is what I can provide you now, subject to any further questions. We will get you the details on the stats that you asked for.
Senator Boehm: Thank you very much. I would be grateful for that. I think the chair will probably specify a date for that.
Senator Loffreda: My question is for the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency. I would like to focus a little more on environmental issues, which are top of mind for many today. I would like to focus on one of your department’s planned results for economic development in the territories which focuses on an efficient and predictable environmental review process in the territories.
One of your performance indicators is to have companies from the territories provide advisory services on issues such as management and support in the environmental assessment and governance processes. Your results have declined since the 2018-19 fiscal year, dropping from 39 to 21 companies in two years. Your goal by the end of the 2023 fiscal year is to bring this number back to 40 companies. I am just curious. How do you explain the decline, given the importance of environmental issues? How do you intend to increase the number of companies that are providing these advisory services?
Ms. Buist: Thank you for the question.
I want to specify that one of the sectors in CanNor is the Northern Projects Management Office. That is where the work you have just described in terms of CanNor’s participation in environmental assessment comes from. If I can clarify, our role with respect to environmental assessment is to coordinate the Government of Canada’s response to environmental assessments that are done on major resource development projects in all three territories. We’re not the decision makers and the regulators, but we bring the federal departments together around resource projects.
We also do a lot of outreach and a lot of work with mining companies and resource development companies on participation in the environmental assessment and on exploration opportunities. We work the chambers of mines in order to foster economic development in the mining industry in the territories.
That’s the overarching work that we do when it comes to environmental assessment. On the specific performance indicator that you referred to, I will have to get back to you in writing on that.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
Senator Duncan: Thank you again to all of the panel that have appeared before us tonight.
I want to follow up on my questions regarding grants to provide income support and contributions to provide income support that are in the Department of Indigenous Services.
In April 2020, an independent review panel published a report, Putting People First: The Final Report of the Comprehensive Review of Yukon’s Health and Social Programs and Services. There are three different providers of social assistance: The Government of Yukon, self-governing First Nations and the Government of Canada. That’s why I asked the question about this funding. If it is funding for self-governing First Nations, that’s like the Canada Health and Social Transfer payment. If it’s other funding for non-settled First Nations, I think they are mixed up in both, and they should be differentiated, because they are different. The report recommended that all three agencies involved in social assistance delivery be brought together to create a vision for social assistance delivery or income supports, and it involves several partners. I am wondering if the Government of Canada is participating, and if you are making progress on the recommendations in the Putting People First report.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. If time permits, I also have the answer to the previous question that you asked on registration, if the chair allows me to answer that question as well.
I will turn to my colleague David Peckham to provide you with an answer on income assistance.
Mr. Peckham: Thank you for the question, senator.
With regard to the specific reports, I will get back to you on that. What I can tell you is that we have concluded our engagement with First Nations and First Nations partners around what income assistance would look like in the future, and we’re currently working with partners to develop those policy options, which primarily would allow for more flexibility for partners to develop their own income support measures, particularly for those to be locally specific and locally relevant. We know that those needs vary widely across the country, including in Yukon. I will get back to you on the specifics in writing on the reports that you mentioned, but I wanted to let you know about the overall national engagement and national work happening on the income assistance programming provided by the Government of Canada.
Senator Bovey: I will be very quick with this, and this shows how new I am to this committee, so forgive me if it’s the wrong question. I’m back on infrastructure. In June of 2019, the Special Senate Committee on the Arctic produced a report that was pretty inclusive about a number off issues, and one of them was about culture. We’ve seen how important arts and culture are as a basis for healthy societies. Do the infrastructure budgets that you have now for the North include the monies that I had been led to believe had been committed for an arts centre in Nunavut so that some of the Indigenous art, which they own and which is now in Ottawa and Winnipeg, can be returned to the community?
Ms. Bess: Thank you for the question. It looks like Wayne Walsh might have some information on that.
Mr. Walsh: The short answer is, “not at this point.” I mentioned earlier we have the article on the policy framework, and we do talk regularly with our territorial counterparts about their priorities. Infrastructure has been a priority, but we’ve not had discussions with respect to cultural properties, as you mentioned.
Senator Pate: Given that we’re looking at Main Estimates for the year coming up, I’m curious as to what kind of costing has been done where the objectives that are being set out by the government are not being met, what the long-term implications are, how that’s being costed and how that figures into your reporting going forward in terms of these Main Estimates. Many of us have gone over the commitments that have been made versus what has been actually expended. I am wondering whether an assessment has been done of the failure to address those issues. I think of the First Nations Child & Family Caring Society impact, the lack of a water advisory, the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls inquiry, and how that is being done departmentally.
Mr. Thompson: I can start, and I am sure my colleagues can provide additional information.
The way the process works is that when we are doing the budget proposals and putting those proposals forward, we have a team doing the costing based on the assumptions the program is using. We have a very robust team to be able to provide that costing, but there is always a high level of uncertainty in the way we are costing.
If I am looking at the last three years with the pandemic, for instance, a lot of the infrastructure projects were delayed. It was very difficult to go to the communities, especially when we were working up north. It was challenging as well to have the manpower to deliver on the projects, and currently, of course, inflation is adding a huge impact on our capacity to deliver. Thinking solely of the infrastructure program, the things that were costed when we did the budget proposals, with interest rates, inflation and everything, the number of projects we can deliver is significantly reduced compared to what we have costed.
We have additional complexity when we talk about wastewater projects for the same reasons. Climate change is having an impact also. There is a high level of unpredictability. We are doing our best to provide the best costing. We have contingencies in our costing as well, but there is always that level of uncertainty.
Senator Pate: I apologize if I’m not being clear. It’s my failure to adequately articulate. Is there also a costing of the failure to remediate in these areas, things like what it will mean in terms of future support action, remedial compensation claims and that sort of thing?
Mr. Thompson: This is an excellent question. We cost the cost of not doing something, for example, if we are not taking action on something, but it’s also based on assumptions. It’s based on past court decisions, for instance, so, yes, we are also providing that information through the policy process when we are making recommendations to the government.
Senator Pate: Perhaps that is something that the committee could examine.
Mr. Thompson: It’s a very good question.
The Chair: For that last question, take it under advisement, and you could probably answer in writing.
Before we adjourn, I believe, Mr. Thompson, you had an answer on a previous question for Senator Duncan. Can you please share that with the committee?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you. I was so excited with my Yukon trip that I didn’t directly answer the question about the line item. With regard to registration, you have a line item for the portion that we have on grants and contributions. In the Main Estimates, it’s $5.3 million, and it’s the very last line item on that page. The thing is that total budget for registration for this year in the Main Estimates was $40.2 million, and the delta, you will find it under the operating expenditures. That’s why you don’t see it in the grants and contributions.
Senator Duncan: Is that funding geared towards the implementation of the Make It Stop! Ending the Remaining Discrimination in Indian Registration?
Mr. Thompson: With regard to registration, the funding that we have that captures all the activity that we would do under registration would be falling under that $40 million. That is in both line items.
Ms. Bess: There was a question about housing units that were built. May I respond now?
The Chair: Yes, please.
Ms. Bess: I have some information on Métis nation housing programs. In terms of units, we have 1,158 housing units brought or built, averaging at 257% of the target; 2096 units repaired or renovated and 7,584 units subsidized for rental support. I wanted to provide that. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you.
Mr. Thompson, Ms. Bess and Ms. Buist, we have an agreement that you will submit your written answers before Thursday, November 10, 2022.
There is no doubt in my mind that there is a common denominator we have seen tonight from your respective responsibilities in that you have been very informative, enlightening and very professional public servants of Canada.
Honourable senators, our next meeting is Tuesday, October 25, at 9 a.m. to continue our study on Main Estimates, but there could be some changes due to the order of reference we got from the Senate with Bill C-31. I would like to have the steering committee stay for a five-minute meeting so we can move immediately to accept a plan of action for Bill C-31.
With that, the meeting is adjourned.
(The committee adjourned.)