THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, November 30, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met with videoconference this day at 6:49 p.m. [ET] to study the Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023.
Senator Percy Mockler (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: I wish to welcome all of the senators as well as the viewers across the country who are watching us on sencanada.ca.
[Translation]
My name is Percy Mockler. I am a senator from New Brunswick and Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance.
[English]
Now I will go around the table and ask my fellow senators to introduce themselves.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Clément Gignac from Quebec.
Senator Bellemare: Diane Bellemare from Quebec.
[English]
Senator Omidvar: Ratna Omidvar, Ontario.
Senator Duncan: Senator Duncan, senator from Yukon.
[Translation]
Senator Loffreda: Tony Loffreda from Quebec. Welcome.
[English]
Senator Boehm: Peter Boehm, Ontario.
Senator Moncion: Lucy Moncion, Ontario.
Senator Smith: Larry Smith, Quebec.
Senator Marshall: Elizabeth Marshall, Newfoundland and Labrador.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: Jean-Guy Dagenais from Quebec.
[English]
The Chair: This evening, we begin our study on Supplementary Estimates B for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2023, referred to this committee on November 22, 2022, by the Senate of Canada.
This evening, we have two panels. We begin with senior officials from the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat and Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC, some of whom are here in the room with us. Others are participating virtually.
[Translation]
Welcome to all of you and thank you for accepting our invitation to testify before the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance.
[English]
We will now hear opening remarks. I understand that Ms. Annie Boudreau, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, will make a statement on behalf of the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat. Mr. Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada will make a statement on behalf of Indigenous Services Canada. Thank you to both of you.
Before we begin, honourable senators, I would like to ask all of the other witnesses that I did not name to please introduce themselves should they be called upon to answer a given question.
[Translation]
We will now hear comments from Annie Boudreau. The floor is yours.
[English]
Annie Boudreau, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat: Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I’m speaking here today from the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people. It’s a great pleasure to appear before the committee to discuss Supplementary Estimates (B) 2022-23. With me are senior officials from the Treasury Board Secretariat.
On my right is Carole Bidal, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Employee Relations and Total Compensation, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.
On the screen, we have Karen Cahill, Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat; Monia Lahaie, Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management Sector, Office of the Comptroller General; Samantha Tattersall, Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General; Kelly Acton, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Performance Sector; Paul Wagner, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Transformation, Office of the Chief Information Officer; and Rod Greenough, Executive Director, Expenditure Strategies and Estimates.
[Translation]
These supplementary estimates present information on expenditure requirements that were not sufficiently defined when the main estimates were tabled, or that have subsequently been refined to reflect new changes.
In these Main Estimates, the government is seeking Parliament’s approval of $20.8 billion in voted budgetary expenditures across 87 organizations to address issues of importance to Canadians.
The supplementary estimates also show, for information purposes, $5 billion in planned statutory spending; this amount includes a one-time $2 billion supplement for the Canada Health Transfer that was transferred to the provinces and territories this summer.
I would like to outline some of the significant amounts requested in this year’s supplementary estimates. For example, the following amounts are requested by Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: $3 billion for out-of-court settlements; $677.6 million to replenish the Specific Claims Settlement Fund.
$673.5 million is also for settlements of certain First Nations Treaty 8 land entitlement claims, as well as $663 million for children’s claims, compensation for abuse, and administration costs related to federal Indian day school and 1960s roundup settlement agreements.
Other key measures in these supplementary estimates include $1.5 billion allocated to the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness for the Disaster Financial Assistance Agreements program. This program provides financial assistance to provincial and territorial governments and will cover costs associated with natural disasters in British Columbia, such as the 2020 floods and landslides, and the 2021 fires, floods and landslides.
$732 million will be provided to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development to support developing countries’ access to vaccines, treatments and diagnostics to combat COVID-19. $696.2 million will go to the Public Health Agency of Canada to support the continued development and procurement of vaccine doses, including new formulations, to provide the best protection against COVID-19.
Finally, $658.5 million will be provided to four departments for the resettlement of Afghan refugees.
[English]
Open, transparent and accountable government means ensuring that parliamentarians and Canadians know how their funds are invested on their behalf. This is why, in addition to estimates documents, we continue to make other reporting tools available such as GC InfoBase and the Open Government Portal. These tools present easy-to-understand information to Canadians about the authorities approved by Parliament.
These estimates propose funding for a wide range of government programs and initiatives including investing in Indigenous communities, maintaining public health measures, supporting disasters, response and recovery, resettling refugees and helping developing countries fight COVID-19.
My colleagues and I will now be pleased to take any of your questions.
The Chair: Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Thompson. The floor is yours for comments.
Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable senators, for the invitation to discuss 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (B) for Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC.
I would like to acknowledge that we are on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people. With me are Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada; Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations Sector, Indigenous Services Canada; Catherine Lappe, Assistant Deputy Minister, Child and Family Services Reform Sector, Indigenous Services Canada; David Peckham, Assistant Deputy Minister, Education and Social Development Programs Sector and Partnerships Sector, Indigenous Services Canada; and Jessica Sultan, Director General, Economic and Business Opportunities, Indigenous Services Canada.
[Translation]
Indigenous Services Canada’s, ISC’s, 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (B) are showing a net increase of $2.2 billion, of which $2.1 billion is in vote 10 grants and contributions. This increase will bring ISC’s total authorities for 2022-23 to $44.1 billion.
The following are the main key initiatives of these supplementary estimates: $457.3 million to support COVID-19 public health responses and the Indigenous Community Support Fund. Indigenous communities still face unique challenges in responding and recovering from COVID-19. This investment is to continue to provide high-quality and culturally relevant health care, in collaboration with Indigenous partners and the provinces and territories, to ensure health services are responsive to the distinct needs of all Indigenous people, no matter where they live.
An amount of $374.9 million is for community infrastructure projects. We are actively working with First Nations communities to understand their infrastructure needs as part of the work to close infrastructure gaps between Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities in Canada by 2030. This funding is to support essential infrastructure needs for First Nations on reserve mainly associated with housing, water and wastewater. Housing is a key determinant of health and lays the foundation for improving socio-economic outcomes and well-being for First Nations.
Improving First Nations communities’ reliable access to safe and clean water and proper sanitation remains especially important in light of the challenges posed by COVID-19. $264.5 million is for the implementation and operationalization of Indigenous children and family services laws to advance implementation of An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families.
$228.6 million is for Canadian Human Rights Tribunal orders implementation and non-compliance motion settlement to address discrimination arising from Canada’s First Nations Child and Family Services program.
[English]
ISC has continued to shape the composition of services with Indigenous partners with the goal of Indigenous-led design, delivery and control of services.
Since 2016, the government has invested over $5.5 billion to improve health outcomes in Indigenous communities. These investments have increased access to timely and culturally appropriate medical care and mental health services for Indigenous people and supported distinction-based priorities.
As of March 2022, eight regional education agreements have been concluded supporting approximately 17,000 students. These agreements allow First Nations to lead the process of administering their own schools using a holistic approach that meets learning and cultural needs of their students.
The OSR, or own-source revenue, in Indigenous communities initiative provided $330 million to Indigenous communities to partially offset pandemic-related OSR declines so First Nations, Inuit and Métis communities could continue to provide important community programs and services to their members.
This delivers the second year of the $170 million Indigenous community business fund to support First Nation and Inuit communities to respond to their economic priorities during the pandemic, and to assist community-owned businesses to recover operating losses.
A total of 574 First Nations and Inuit communities and 111 community businesses were funded in 2021-22. Métis businesses also received support through five Métis capital corporations. I look forward to discussing any aspect of these estimates with you and welcome your comments regarding my presentation. Thank you. Meegwetch.
The Chair: Thank you for the comments. Now we will proceed to questions. I would like to tell the senators that you will have a maximum of five minutes each for only one round of questions. I do not believe that we will have a second round. We do have another panel appearing at 7:45. Therefore, please ask the questions directly to the witnesses. Please respond concisely, and the clerk will inform me when the time is over.
Senator Marshall: Most of my questions are for Treasury Board. I want an update from Mr. Thompson with regard to the $20 billion child welfare deal because I know that the Canada Human Rights Tribunal, or CHRT, did not agree with the agreement in principle, and I see now that there is going to be a court challenge. So what is going to happen to the $20 billion? That’s my primary concern.
Is there any money in Supplementary Estimates (B) that is going to be added to that $20 billion pot?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. When we met last time, we were waiting for the decision from the CHRT. We have received the decision now, so as you just mentioned, the government has filed a judicial review. We are still in negotiation. We are still hoping to reach an agreement with the parties.
With regard to your direct question, the funding is still in our estimates, so it will remain in our estimates in the expectation that we will be able to achieve an agreement. But in terms of those current Supplementary Estimates (B), there is funding that is associated with child and family services, but it’s for the implementation of the First Nation and child and services legislation.
There is also a little element of re-profile from last fiscal year to pay for the CHRT, but the funding included is in these Supplementary Estimates (B) is not related to compensation.
Senator Marshall: So the $228 million which refers to tribunal orders doesn’t have anything to do with this $20 billion deal that we’re talking about?
Mr. Thompson: This is correct.
Senator Marshall: But the concern I have is what happens — I mean, we’re getting near the end — well we’re getting into December now. And it’s very unlikely that the entire $20 billion will be spent unless it goes out to a third party as you mentioned before. So will that be frozen? My concern is it will be moved around and spent on something else.
Mr. Thompson: It’s frozen.
Senator Marshall: I see Treasury Board next to you, yes.
Mr. Thompson: It remains in our appropriation. We will still see it in the Main Estimates of Indigenous Services Canada, but just as last year, it’s dedicated to compensation, and it cannot be spent on other priorities.
Senator Marshall: That’s great. Thanks very much.
My next question is sort of related but it’s for Treasury Board. When we look at the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, there is a lot of funding there for different types of settlement and claims. How can we track that money? I’m looking at what is in Supplementary Estimates (B), and the major amount is for out-of-court settlements. The next one is for a specific claim settlement fund, the next one is specific claims. I was talking to the Parliamentary Budget Officer about it, because we want to track it because the similar wording or identical wording shows up in Main Estimates, Sup A, Sup B.
How is it possible to track that so that we can connect the dots?
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you for the question. Maybe I’ll use an example from public accounts 2021-22 that was tabled a month ago or so. So when there is an amount that is being put aside, the term that we are using is frozen allotments, so you can see that in the public accounts and the amount will be transferred from that fiscal year to the next fiscal year.
So like Mr. Thompson was saying, if the $20 billion is not used before March 2023, Indigenous Services Canada will still need that money, obviously. We will freeze that money, we will see the amount froze in the public accounts of next year. That will be carried forward in the main estimate 2023-24.
Senator Marshall: Is that volume 2?
Ms. Boudreau: I have a note here.
Senator Marshall: I’m thinking of some of the schedules in volume 2.
Ms. Boudreau: Yes, you are correct. Lapses are included in the Public Accounts of Canada Volume II. Yes, that is correct.
Senator Marshall: Great, okay thank you.
So my next question is: Can you talk to us about the operating budget carry forward? I know there is a maximum for the operating, it’s 5%, and I think for the capital it’s 20 or 25%. So, what is coming forward for the operating budget carry forward? If it’s 5%, it’s of $8 billion. So you don’t take the 5% of everything that is lapsed, do you? You go to a lesser amount, don’t you?
Ms. Boudreau: So it is like you said, it is a maximum of 5% of the operating budget carry forward. It is 5% of prior year Main Estimates. We do not include Supplementary Estimates (A), (B) and (C) when we do the calculation of that 5%.
In Main Estimates of this year, we thought that we will need $2.1 billion in order to allocate that 5% carry forward. After receiving information from departments, we discovered that the amount was not enough. That’s why you see in Supplementary Estimates (B) under Treasury Board, another amount has been included in order to top up the $2.1 billion that we put aside during the Main Estimates process.
Senator Marshall: No second round. Thank you. I’ll get you next time you’re here.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: My first question is for the Indigenous Services Canada representatives.
In your document, you talk about money allocated for public health interventions related to COVID-19 and the Indigenous Community Support Fund.
You talk about health care, but could you talk about the labour shortage, its impacts in the community and the amount of money associated with the initiatives? I imagine there are issues there, as well.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. Yes, we have $455 million in the Supplementary Estimates (B) related to COVID-19 to continue immunization, efforts and funding for Indigenous communities.
With respect to your more specific question, I will ask my colleague Keith Conn from the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch to provide you with answers on the efforts that are currently underway with respect to what you are asking us.
[English]
Keith Conn, Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for the question.
As we have seen in the media and as we all know, across Canada and perhaps globally, we have shortages in health and human resources. We have been managing within our own capacities with our existing workforce. We have done some extensive work to reach out to other institutions, organizations and agencies that could supply nurses for surge capacity. We have also developed some recruitment efforts outside our normal practices to approach other tribal councils or organizations that could lend a helping hand, specifically on vaccine surge demands to run clinics in communities across the nation.
We have been managing thus far, but we have to rely on agency-contracted nursing in some respects to manage the demands across the land in terms of vaccine rollout.
Certainly, it has the attention of the full department, our chief nursing officer and among many colleagues across the nation to look at some strategic planning to look at definitive investments in health and human resources investments, recruitment and retention. We are also looking to outreach to academic institutions to look at access programs for nursing and to encourage careers, especially in Northern and remote communities. Thank you.
Senator Moncion: Thank you.
[Translation]
My second question is for the Treasury Board officials. It’s about the Disaster Mitigation and Adaptation Fund.
You talked about the fund for British Columbia in terms of the 2020 and 2021 incidents. How will you handle claims that are related to hurricane Fiona in 2022 or the 2022 disasters?
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you very much for the question.
Actually, cash advances have been made for Fiona. The way it is done for the initiative I referred to earlier is that we wait for requests from the provinces and territories. When the requests come in, the lead department has to check to make sure that they are the right amounts and that the people affected will not be paid twice, by the province and by a territory.
With respect to Fiona, it is the federal government that has committed to pay the money. As soon as the Department of Public Health is ready to come to us with their Treasury Board submission, with an implementation plan, and this is approved, that money will be in the Supplementary Estimates (C) or in the Main Estimates for the coming year.
Senator Moncion: In the amount that currently appears, there is no money for Fiona.
Ms. Boudreau: That’s right. There is no money for Fiona.
Senator Moncion: Okay. Thank you very much.
Senator Gignac: I welcome the witnesses.
Ms. Boudreau, it’s always a pleasure to see you again. My question will be for you.
The Parliamentary Budget Officer came to meet with us. I understand that we are analyzing Supplementary Estimates (B), but there is also the economic statement. So many measures were announced between last spring’s budget and the economic statement. That was an amount of $20 billion after all. I understand that it is not always a matter of spending, but also of tax measures. Tonight, we are talking about Supplementary Estimates (B), or spending of over $20 billion that we have to approve.
There’s also a point I’d like to make with respect to public servant compensation. As I understand it, Supplementary Estimates (B) include an amount of $12.3 billion, which is authority spending for additional compensation that we have to approve. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has given us some statistics that are a little bit — I wouldn’t go so far as to say troubling. Can you enlighten me on that?
Since 2015, since the Liberal government has been in power, the average annual growth in personnel expenditures has been 6.7%. We’ve gone from $39.6 billion to $67.7 billion. 6.7% is still a pretty fast growth in compensation spending. If I understand correctly, the 2.3% has to do with the number of employees. Let’s take 6.7% minus 2.3%; if my numbers are right, we’re talking about 4.4%. Now, 4.4% is still a higher growth rate than the private sector.
Can you analyze those percentages, as the number of employees is growing? We are talking about an average cost of $130,000 per full-time employee. I need clarifications on compensation management. I think that’s a Treasury Board issue.
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you. I will start answering your question and then turn it over to my colleague.
One thing to keep in mind is that the $130,000 figure also includes benefits, including pension, dental care, health care. Once you break that down, the amount is smaller.
We also looked at the Parliamentary Budget Officer’s report. We attach great importance to it. The numbers in the report are a little bit different from our numbers, but at the end of the day, we agree with his assessment. We’re going to end up at the same point within the next three to five years.
I will turn the floor over to my colleague, Ms. Bidal, who can provide more details.
Senator Gignac: I would like to see a breakdown of the $130,000 to see what is salary and what is benefits. If you ever have any statistics or other information, could you please send it to us in writing?
Ms. Boudreau: I will send the information in writing.
Senator Gignac: I wanted to offer the rest of my time to my colleague Senator Marshall, if she has a supplementary question.
[English]
Senator Marshall: I can wait until the end, and if there is time, I will gladly accept your offer.
Senator Smith: Thank you for your participation this evening.
Mr. Thompson, the Indigenous portfolio saw some of the biggest increases and budgetary spending lapses over the course of 2020-21 and 2021-22 as compared to previous years. Can you explain why budgetary authorities for various Indigenous-related programs lapsed over the last year?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question.
It is true that we had a number of lapses over the last few years. That was due to the great uncertainty that we had to deal with regard to the pandemic. As you know, when we got into the pandemic, we did not know exactly what we would be dealing with for the years to come. We didn’t know if we were getting into a two-month pandemic or a two-year pandemic.
There was funding that was provided to the organization to respond to the pandemic, making sure that communities were able to respond. So we had some additional flexibility. We had to go back to ask for additional funding. It makes it very challenging to get precise on what the need will be.
We have been able to reprofile the vast majority of that funding. We also have some programs that are driven by demand. You have seen summary profiles in the Supplementary Estimates (B) where we are talking about child and family services, for instance, and claims that are coming to us. Those programs are driven by demand from communities. Because there was a slowdown in the communities, there were fewer claims coming to the organization. The funding was available to answer those claims, but the claims were delayed because of the situation. People were busy fighting the pandemic rather than filing those claims.
But we are able to reprofile that funding. So the funding is still available because we know that those claims will be coming in anyway. We have the same situation with initiatives like the Jordan Principle. This is really the uncertainty.
Senator Smith: You can say that you had a buffer because there was that uncertainty?
Mr. Thompson: We had a buffer because of the pandemic to make sure we had the funds. We had to make sure we would not run out of funds. What terrified me as a chief financial officer, because of the schedule of the supplementary estimates, at some point, if I do not make the budgetary requests during the year, I run the risk of running out of money. Because of the situation, we could not afford to deal with that risk.
So we were making sure we would have sufficient funding to respond to the pandemic all year long if there were a spike. That explains why the last few years have been a little bit unusual for the department.
Senator Smith: I will stick with you, Mr. Thompson. Supplementary estimates 2022-23 contain $648 million to invest in housing for Indigenous communities, Indigenous Services Canada. Crown-Indigenous Relations, Northern Affairs Canada, or CIRNAC, and Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, or CMHC, are the three organizations tasked with carrying out this objective. Which department is the lead department for this funding? How do all three departments coordinate to ensure the use of the funding?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. With regard to housing, there are criteria. We mostly focus on housing on First Nations on-reserve, but I will ask my colleague Paula Hadden-Jokiel to provide you more precision so that you have the correct answer about how the work is being divided.
Senator Smith: I am looking to make sure that there’s coordination in the projects and managing the money.
Mr. Thompson: For sure. My colleague can provide you more precision on that question.
Paula Hadden-Jokiel, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations Sector, Indigenous Services Canada: Thank you for that question. Housing is distributed on a distinctions basis. Different departments are managing different aspects of the funding. For example, ISC manages the on-reserve housing; CIRNAC manages housing for Inuit. We also work closely with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. There’s a lot of joint work at all levels across the organization to coordinate the planning and implementation of the housing funds.
Senator Smith: The next question is about results. How are you managing results and are you getting results coming in on a regular basis so that you can measure the success of these three groups that are managing such a large amount of money?
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: Yes. For ISC, we track all of that on at least a quarterly basis. Since 2016, we invested over $1.24 billion on housing on-reserve.
Between ourselves and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, we have funded over 27,000 units.
Senator Smith: Could you tell us how many units have actually been completed? Have you met your targets?
Ms. Hadden-Jokiel: We did not have targets as per the number of units. However, we are continuing to close the gap with additional investments every year and increasing the number of housing dollars that we are able to provide to First Nations communities.
The Chair: Thank you. Mr. Thompson, on that last question from Senator Smith, if you want to add anything in writing, we would appreciate that.
Mr. Thompson: My pleasure.
Senator Omidvar: Thank you to the witnesses for being with us.
My question is to Indigenous Services Canada. It relates to the $455 million in the supplementary estimates that Indigenous Services Canada will use to fund food security, mental health, support and home care services.
It sounds like a lot of money, but when I look at it in the context of remote communities in the North and I look at the cost of living, where food is almost twice as expensive as what it costs in an urban area, I wonder if this amount is sufficient? How did you come to this particular amount?
Mr. Thompson: With regard to the $455 million that is in our supplementary estimates, this is related to the work that we are doing with regard to the pandemic; that is, continuing to address the pandemic situation in Indigenous communities.
A portion of that funding is dedicated to public health response. Am I addressing the right question?
Senator Omidvar: Yes, you are.
Mr. Thompson: There is also an element related to the Indigenous Community Support Fund. The Indigenous Community Support Fund has proven to be effective in the pandemic. We were providing funding to communities with the freedom to determine the best way for their community to respond to the pandemic, so we have a high level of flexibility in that funding. Because that funding has been so effective in meeting the needs of communities, we have continued to provide that funding.
For the Supplementary Estimates (B), the way that we determined the funding was based on our experience in dealing with the pandemic. At the beginning of the pandemic, the first portion of funding was allocated to the department and then, based on experience, we received other rounds of funding for the Indigenous Community Support Fund.
Since the pandemic is not over, we have continued to receive that funding in the organization. This is the intent of that funding.
With regard to public health response and inflation, perhaps my colleague Keith Conn would like to provide additional information in that respect.
The Chair: Mr. Conn, please?
Mr. Conn: I do not really have any supplementary to what Mr. Thompson has provided. Public health measures are certainly warranted across the nation. The pandemic has not left Indigenous communities in this country, so we continue to continue on with public health measures and supporting communities, including the vaccine rollout.
Senator Omidvar: I believe my question is for Treasury Board. It pertains to what Treasury Board is doing to facilitate a return to work by public servants and to the question of hybrid-by-design in the face of what I understand is significant opposition to a full return to work or even hybrid-by-design. Can you comment on that? Are there investments in these estimates that are devoted to ensuring that the public service is properly accommodated so that it can to the job that we expect it to do?
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you for the question. I will start with the last portion of it.
In those estimates, no money was put aside for the purpose that you just explained because we think departments will be able to manage within their own authorities, their own appropriations that they have already.
In more generic terms about the return to the workplace, I will ask my colleague, Ms. Bidal, to provide you with more details.
Carole Bidal, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Employee Relations and Total Compensation, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat: Coming out of the pandemic, the federal government is moving from a remote-by-default to a hybrid-by-design approach, as is the case in many organizations around the world. At the same time, we are recognizing that hybrid is here to stay.
Departments have been increasing workplaces since the spring. More public servants in the core public administration are now making their way into the office on a regular and sustained basis. In addition to providing the flexibility for departments and agencies to serve Canadians as effectively as possible, hybrid work is providing an opportunity to reduce some costs, as well as greenhouse gas emissions, associated with excessive building space and occupancy.
In the context of ensuring the safety of employees as they reintegrate into the workplace, cost measures and the guidance of the Public Service Occupational Health and Safety Program are being adhered to in consultations with the union management committees, occupational health and safety within the departments as well.
Senator Boehm: Thank you to our witnesses for coming here in person on a dark and stormy night.
My first question is for Madam Boudreau. The Treasury Board Secretariat is requesting $565 million for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police’s life and disability insurance plan which provides long-term disability coverage to regular members, civilian members and employees hired under the Public Service Employment Act who are unable to perform their duties because of a disability. This amount includes a payment of $499 million to bring the plan out of deficit and replenish the reserve fund for anticipated claims, as well as funding to support the increased employer paid premium cost.
Would you know how many RCMP members and employees are currently on disability leave or is that an RCMP-type question? How many receive benefits? Are dependents covered in this amount? On the $499 million, why did the plan fall into deficit? Are you anticipating a lot of claims to be covered by this reserve?
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you very much for the four questions. As you said in your statement, the RCMP will be in a better position to answer those questions.
Senator Boehm: But they are not here.
Really, it is a program that belongs to them. It is really the DM’s accountability. We will not have that information in order for us to provide you with what you’re looking for, so I’m not sure, Mr. Chair, if you would like to follow up with the RCMP directly, but it’s really information that only they will be able to provide this committee.
Senator Boehm: It is a rather large amount, so I thought I would ask the question. Perhaps, chair, if we could get something in writing on that. That might be helpful.
The Chair: Would you agree, Ms. Boudreau, regarding the question asked by the senator that you would contact the RCMP?
Ms. Boudreau: We could reach out to them and ask if it’s possible to get that information. Obviously, it will depend on what timeline you are going to give us in order to come back to you, because this is a little bit outside our control. It would be up to them to come back to us.
The Chair: We will give you a reasonable timeline.
Ms. Boudreau: Okay.
Senator Boehm: This is for Indigenous Services Canada.
Mr. Thompson, this is to follow up on Senator Omidvar’s question about the $455.5 million that will go to the emerging needs as a result of the pandemic — perimeter, food security, mental health, elder and cultural supports — all this put out there.
As I recall, at the beginning of the pandemic, the rollout to Indigenous communities was fairly quick and impressive. We talked about that in this committee.
Do you have any statistics as to the percentage of Indigenous peoples who are fully vaccinated? Have there been greater post-pandemic — we’re not quite out of it — but have there been particular challenges that are cultural, geographic or socio-economic in terms of the vaccination rollout?
Generally speaking, in our country, elder care has been neglected. It’s also a very controversial policy issue handled at the sub-national level, to a great extent. But how is elder care being handled in this post-pandemic phase in Indigenous communities?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the excellent question. I will ask my colleague, Mr. Conn, to provide a more detailed answer. He would be in a position to give us a very good answer to that question.
Mr. Conn: Thank you, senator, for the question.
We would have to return with information. We have specific data on the vaccination rates across the country as well as what I call “pockets of heaven” where we had seen vaccination rates of the elderly population well over 85% in, for example, Alberta. Those were very strategic investments and efforts to support the promotion of vaccination.
We have seen some resistance, of course, in some communities, and Northern and remote communities resistance was there. They were lacking information and the knowledge base to support vaccinations within communities. We are, unfortunately, seeing some low vaccination rates for the younger populations.
But we can return to the committee with some detailed data around the vaccination uptake, along with efforts to support elderly residents, seniors’ residences or long-term care; we can also provide some information on efforts to support those populations. Thank you.
Senator Boehm: Thank you.
Senator Duncan: I would like to add a question to follow up on Senator Boehm and the funding for the RCMP and long-term disability.
In the written answer, could we have an assessment of the disability plan and the return to work? I come to that question from experience with workers’ compensation where the best prevention of long-term disability is a return to work. I would like an assessment of how the claims are being handled, if there is a plan for a long-term return to work and how well that is monitored.
Could I also have a written explanation on the line item “funding for claims arising from the white class action settlement”? I don’t know what that is. That would be an answer in writing, please.
I have a few questions for Mr. Thompson that I would like to give him an opportunity to answer here. In the funding for Indigenous Services Canada, there are a number of items that are for health care services — long-term care, funding to address anti-Indigenous racism in health care, health capital projects. There is also money for the transformational approach to Indigenous data and resource information-management systems.
On my behalf, there was a question asked of the minister in her attendance at the Senate. The question was:
You have an understanding of health care, and with your current responsibilities of Indigenous Services, your mandate letter includes a whole-of-government approach.
Status First Nations can be identified through provincial-territorial health care numbers. Why is assisting the renewal of status cards through Indigenous Services at such a bottleneck . . . ?
There is funding for health care, there is health care, there is this issue with status registration and it seems like there is a bottleneck and a lack of communication between them. We seem to see a duplication of funding; yet, the government ministers have been tasked with a whole-of-government approach. How is your department working on that?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for the question. There are lots of sub-questions in the questions. I will try to answer them all.
There is funding in the supplementary estimates related to registration. It is related [Technical difficulties] — equities and registration following the Estey decision. The funding is additional funding that is provided to organizations so we can increase our staff complement to respond to the demand. We acknowledge there is a great demand; the demand is going up. We are trying to commit to a six-month service standard to be able to issue registration with the funding that is being provided to the organization.
That’s what we find in Supplementary Estimates (B) with regard to registration.
You also referred to the Indigenous data component. There was a total funding envelope of $81.5 million for Indigenous data. The first tranche of that funding is provided through Supplementary Estimates (B). The work is starting with communities so the Indigenous populations can take control and ownership of their data under the principle of OCAP. We’re working under five streams. It would be a detailed answer. We could possibly provide more information in writing on all the work that is being done on Indigenous data.
With regard to all the health components that we have, there is a portion of new funding in Supplementary Estimates (B). We referred to the public health response with regard to COVID, for instance, but many of the line items that you see in our Supplementary Estimates (B) for this year are reprofiles from last fiscal year. We had few surpluses in a lot of our programs, and we want to make sure that we don’t let that money go — that we have the capacity to invest that money. That’s what I was saying when I was talking about the lapses that we have in the organization: We make an effort to always reprofile the funding so that it goes to the community and really serves them.
Senator Duncan: When will we see the Departmental Results Reports, or DRRs?
Mr. Thompson: That is an excellent question for my colleague.
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you for the question. Touché, Mr. Thompson.
We are still reviewing the DRRs; we are still doing quality reviews on them. We are hoping to be able to table them as soon as possible.
Senator Duncan: So . . .
The Chair: There is no deadline?
Ms. Boudreau: As per the legislation, the DRRs should be tabled after Public Accounts, but there is no fixed date in the legislation. Public Accounts have to be tabled by December 31, but regarding the DRRs, as per the current legislation, there is no fixed date.
The Chair: And have you noticed that the senators of the National Finance Committee engage in teamwork?
Ms. Boudreau: Yes; for us as well. That’s great.
Senator Loffreda: Welcome to our panellists and thank you for your presentations.
The digital economy will definitely be a large part of our future. In Supplementary Estimates (B), your voted appropriations include $5.1 million to fund the Office of the Chief Information Officer to support the governance and oversight of digital initiatives.
Could you further elaborate on what these digital initiatives are and how you plan to use the additional funding to oversee them?
Although $5.1 million is not a large part of the $25.8 billion, we are authorizing in incremental budgetary spending as part of the Supplementary Estimates (B), I am certain you will agree that the digital economy will be an important element of the value creation in the near feature. I am curious to know what is being done on that front.
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you for your question. I place a caveat on it. In the amount that you said, Parliament is not authorizing $25.8 billion. You are authorizing the $20.8 billion which is voted appropriation. The other $5 billion is legislative.
Senator Loffreda: Yes. Thank you.
Ms. Boudreau: I wanted to add that clarification. I’ll turn it over to my colleagues on the screen, Kelly or Paul. They will be able to provide you with additional information.
Paul Wagner, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Transformation, Office of the Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat: Thank you for the questions. That $5.1 million is essentially a program integrity funding which will allow the Office of the Chief Information Officer to oversee digital investments and digital projects. Those are some of the most critical digital projects that the government has under way, benefits to deliver modernization at ESDC and the digital platform modernization at IRCC. That $5.1 million is not specific to a given project but it’s for the oversight and investment management of digital projects across the government.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you for that. I have a question for Indigenous Services Canada.
In 2022-23, ISC plans to invest in improving services and supports to address anti-Indigenous racism in health systems and are requesting an additional $3.3 million in supplementary funding to do so. Would you mind elaborating on the four key areas you will be investing in to tackle anti-Indigenous racism in the health care system?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for the question. As I mentioned before, the funding that we see in Supplementary Estimates (B) is a reprofile from last fiscal year. This is not new funding. This is funding that we are reprofiling.
With regard to a more detailed answer on that question, I will turn to my colleague Keith Conn.
Mr. Conn: As Mr. Thompson pointed out, this is a reprofile from last year. We do have investments with partners to support, for example, Indigenous navigators to work within the health system locally, where there is a high population of Indigenous people accessing hospital services. This is part of the work that will continue.
As well, we have some investments in a unique way with the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations in Saskatchewan who will be establishing an ombudsperson for the Province of Saskatchewan to work with Indigenous communities and the health system, for example, and to address systemic racism across the board.
We can provide more detailed information on some of those particular investments and examples by returning to the committee.
Senator Loffreda: In Supplementary Estimates (B) 2022-23 — and, you are representing Indigenous Services Canada here — you are requesting $373 million for Indigenous community infrastructure. You put in parentheses Budget 2022, but you are also requesting $100 million for infrastructure projects in Indigenous communities.
Which Budget 2022 announcement does the funding request of $373 million intend to fund? Regarding the differences between these two infrastructure funding requests, is there any specific programs you are looking at and regional allocation of these projects? What is the difference between the two funds?
Mr. Thompson: There is a short answer on the difference between the two. The $373 million is the Budget 2022 funding that I was referring to in my introductory remarks. It captures the work done on housing water, waste water and other community infrastructure. This is the budget item. The other amount that you see is a reprofile from last fiscal year.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My question is for Mr. Thompson. There are many political announcements on financial assistance to Indigenous communities, and they are sometimes difficult to follow. This was actually discussed in a previous meeting.
We are dealing with over $2 billion in additions and I have a hard time understanding why some of this spending was not in the main estimates.
I would like an explanation of the decision-making process. I take as a starting point that, a few days ago, the Prime Minister announced $42.5 million over six years for the James Smith Cree Nation. Where did this money come from? Were you consulted or do you have to deal with political announcements?
I’d like to know how — I don’t want to say with a snap of the fingers — it was determined that $42 million need to be spent there. You may tell me that $42 million in the budget is not a lot, but it’s still not insignificant.
I would like to hear what you have to say about that.
Mr. Thompson: Thank you very much for your question. As my colleague mentioned in her opening remarks, the expenditures found in Supplementary Estimates (B) are budget items that were not ready when the Main Estimates were implemented.
So, during the year, after the budget is announced, we have the starting budget for the expenditures, and then we have to go through the Treasury Board Secretariat process in order to get the authorities to go and get those additional amounts in the supplementary estimates. It’s really a matter of timing, so there’s a lot of funding that comes in during the year. There are always risk management decisions that have to be made during the year, especially at Indigenous Services Canada, as we have to meet the demand for certain programs and at the same time get our authorities to be able to fund those requests. So it’s really a waltz over the course of the year to be able to manage initiatives and budgets.
For the James Smith Cree Nation, there was $20 million announced in relation to the Pathways Initiative and $40 million in relation to health support. We don’t necessarily have all of these authorities in our current budgets. We’re going to check what’s available in our budgets, what’s been allocated or not, and often we’re going to have to go and get those budgets in the supplementary estimates.
Sometimes the announcement is made, and we have to start the authorities process to go out and get those amounts and, in some respects, sometimes we also have to make risk management decisions to meet the demand and manage our authorities during the year.
Senator Dagenais: I have a quick question about improving the Arctic defence process. Not surprisingly, we know that this includes Indigenous peoples. What budgets are you planning for this year, and perhaps for the next five years, to address Indigenous peoples’ claims?
Mr. Thompson: Thank you for your question. Indigenous Services Canada is not really involved in the Arctic. That would be more of a question for our colleagues at Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs.
Senator Dagenais: Thank you, Mr. Thompson.
Senator Bellemare: Thank you for joining us.
My question is for Ms. Boudreau. Looking at the different public departments and organizations, I see that operating expenditures have increased a lot across the board.
I would have liked to have, in the introduction, a horizontal breakdown, that would show operating expenditures in Supplementary Estimates (B), capital expenditures.
First of all, do you consider them to have increased a lot or not? At first glance, for example, for natural resources, there are adjustments, but they have increased by over $50 million. It’s the same thing for Employment and Social Development Canada: $164 million out of a total of $1.211 billion. It’s the same in all departments. Can you explain the reasons for that?
Ms. Boudreau: Thank you very much for your question. I’ll admit, it’s not easy to make sense of this big document, nor is it easy to make the connection to the federal budget.
So, at the beginning of the year, in March, we produce the estimates for the upcoming year. Then, there is a federal budget and, of course, there will be announcements in the budget that will have an impact on the supplementary estimates. We always start with Supplementary Estimates (A). When we came here with Supplementary Estimates (A), there was very little spending at that time and we knew that Supplementary Estimates (B) would include a lot of lapsed spending.
If you do the analysis of the last three years and add up Supplementary Estimates (A) and (B), you end up with almost the same situation. It’s not easy to look at this document alone. You really have to look at it with the analysis of the documents before to get the full picture. Here, we don’t have a good overview, unfortunately.
Senator Bellemare: My question was not about the size of the supplementary estimates. I understand that we are coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic, but the operating expenditures have increased significantly. Is that because of additional human resources? What do those operating expenditures consist of?
Ms. Boudreau: They include staffing additions, so human resources, and also operations and maintenance. If a department wants to hire a consultant, that would also fall under this category, as well as real property.
Senator Bellemare: Does that include capital expenditures, as well? I assume that’s real property.
Ms. Boudreau: Capital expenditures are really related to construction. If it’s for operations and maintenance of a building, it will be under operating expenditures, not capital expenditures.
Senator Bellemare: You say that you took advantage of spending reductions related to the hybrid model. I understand that and it was useful to do so. Are those operating expenditures related to the new hybrid management of government?
Ms. Boudreau: Not necessarily; the expenditures you see here are either included in the 2022 federal budget that had not yet been taken into consideration or were part of the new announcements made since the federal budget until now. It’s a combination of a number of factors. To give you an example, in the Supplementary Estimates (B), there is about $5 billion tied to the 2022 federal budget.
So, if you include the supplementary estimates, plus the (A) and Supplementary Estimates (B), 71 per cent of the expenditures that were new initiatives included in the 2022 federal budget have already been included in the estimates, meaning that departments already have the money in their coffers to be able to implement their programs.
Senator Bellemare: It would be nice if you could provide some macroeconomic numbers — the total in the supplementary budget for the operating funds that you are requesting, and the total for grants and contributions for capital expenditures. That would give us a bit of an understanding and it would give a perspective, at least in terms of the spending increases.
Ms. Boudreau: This information is already available. As soon as we publish a supplementary budget, it’s available online; all the information is presented by department, by operating budget and for all the budgets that exist.
Senator Bellemare: I agree that it’s very detailed, but it would be nice to have it all together, in your introductory chapter, to give the big picture. That’s what I was asking for.
The Chair: Thanks, senator, for clarifying.
Senator Gignac had yielded his last two minutes to Senator Marshall.
[English]
Senator Marshall: I’ll finish up my question to Ms. Boudreau where I ran out of time. The operating budget carries forward the $450 million. Is there a list somewhere of the projects or the initiatives that are in that $450 million? Or is it just a lump sum with nothing assigned to it?
Ms. Boudreau: It’s project by project. It is operating funding. It is up to the 5% like we discussed. So we don’t get a project by project. We get that information for the capital budget carry forward. We do get project by project. But not for this one. What you can see in the online annexes are all departments and how much of that operating carry forward is allocated for each of them.
Senator Marshall: But we don’t know what for. Okay, I understand. Thank you.
The Chair: With the indulgence of all the senators, I have a question. Ms. Boudreau, when I look at you’re asking for the vote of the RCMP and for clarity, and it’s being asked through Treasury Board, $536 million, okay? I understand that additional information will be coming in writing.
My question to you: The budget of the RCMP is approximately $4.8 billion. Why are you asking to carry that vote?
Ms. Boudreau: Can you please just repeat your last question because with the noise behind me it’s really tough to understand, to hear you.
[Translation]
Senator Boehm asked you about a voted appropriation that you are requesting from the RCMP for $536,506,604. Why is the Treasury Board Secretariat requesting this vote rather than the RCMP itself?
Ms. Boudreau: It’s part of a central vote and it’s part of the Public Service Health Care Plan because we’re the employer for the entire public service and it’s reflected in the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat estimates.
The Chair: Thank you very much for that clarification.
[English]
Honourable senators, we have reached the end of our time with the first panel. I would like to thank the witnesses for appearing today as you were very informative. There is no doubt in our minds that the information that you have shared with us, and the information that is coming in writing from the questions, it meets the four main principles of our committee, national finance. It’s about transparency, accountability, predictability and reliability. But before adjourning this meeting, I would like to remind you, the witnesses through Mr. Thompson and Ms. Boudreau, that please submit written responses to the clerk by the end — you were waiting for the day — by the end of day, Wednesday, December 7, 2022.
As we continue with Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2023, we have with us senior officials from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, Global Affairs Canada and Public Safety Canada. To the witnesses, thank you very much for accepting our invitation. We welcome all of you.
We will now proceed with comments by the officials. First will be Mr. Hughes St-Pierre, to be followed by Annie Boyer and then Patrick Amyot.
Hughes St-Pierre, Assistant Deputy Minister of the Finance, Security and Administration Sector, and Chief Financial Officer, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: I wish to recognize that we are meeting on the traditional and unceded territories of the Algonquin and Anishinaabe peoples.
It is a pleasure to be here in front of your committee today.
[Translation]
I am joined by colleagues from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC): Daniel Mills, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations; Marian Campbell Jarvis, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy; Catherine Scott, Assistant Deputy Minister, Settlement and Integration; Selena Beattie, Director General, Afghanistan Sector.
[English]
Today, IRCC is appearing to discuss its 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (B) totalling close to $1.2 billion. This is a brief summary of the key investments that we are seeking in these supplementary estimates.
[Translation]
An initial investment of $745.7 million under the 2022-24 Immigration Levels Plan will support increased immigration levels and admissions of permanent residents to Canada. This investment includes the 2022 increase of over 431,000 planned admissions.
The government’s plan also includes funding to expand Canada’s commitment to resettle up to 40,000 Afghan refugees. We recently surpassed 25,000 Afghan refugees, and we are on track to meet this commitment.
[English]
IRCC is also seeking $193 million to continue providing temporary accommodations and support services to asylum seekers. There is a real need for temporary housing as some provinces don’t have the capacity to accommodate the number of asylum claimants. There is also $162.2 million for special immigration measures for Ukrainian nationals which will help IRCC improve application processing as well as continue providing temporary accommodations, settlement support services and short-term financial support.
To date, we have welcomed over 117,000 Ukrainian citizens and retained Canadian permanent residents of Ukrainian origin.
[Translation]
The $63.7 million in funding will be used to reduce processing times and claim backlogs in 2022-23. This funding, which was committed by the Government of Canada in the 2021 Economic and Fiscal Update, will be used to reduce wait times and the inventory of applications. By the end of the fall, IRCC will have assigned up to 1,250 new staff to this project.
[English]
Overall, these investments will provide better services to Canadians, permanent residents and those seeking to come to Canada. It will help Canada address challenges facing the immigration system as well as do our part to help those needing safe harbour.
It is a pleasure for me and my colleagues to respond to your questions tonight.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. St-Pierre. Ms. Annie Boyer will now give her presentation.
Annie Boyer, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Global Affairs Canada: Good evening, and thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee. I’m honoured to be here today to discuss my department’s supplementary estimates.
I would like to first acknowledge that I’m speaking from the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people, and I’m grateful to have the opportunity to be present in their territory. I’m joined today by Peter Lundy, Director General, Indo-Pacific Strategy Secretariat; Kati Csaba, Executive Director, Ukraine Strategy action team; Tara Carney, Director, International Humanitarian Assistance (Africa, Middle East); Manon Souligny, Director Planning and Resource Management.
I will make brief opening comments, following which I will be pleased to answer your questions.
Let me acknowledge the scope of our mandate. Under the leadership of three ministers, Global Affairs Canada is responsible for advancing Canada’s international relations; developing and implementing foreign policy; promoting international trade, while supporting Canadian business interests; being a leader in delivering international development assistance, including humanitarian assistance around the world; and providing consular assistance to many Canadians to work, live and travel abroad.
Global Affairs Canada operates 170 missions in 110 countries around the world in order to accomplish its mandate. We do so in an evolving and often challenging global political and economic environment.
Over two years into the COVID-19 pandemic, the world continues to face an evolving threat from the virus and its variants. This global turmoil has been exacerbated by Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, which has resulted in disrupted food and energy markets, raising food and fuel prices everywhere, and limiting people’s access to food in already vulnerable countries while taking a toll on populations in Ukraine.
Global Affairs Canada has been at the centre of Canada’s support across the humanitarian development, peace and security nexus.
Through these supplementary estimates, Global Affairs Canada is seeking an increase of $1.3 billion to its current authorities of $7.6 billion, bringing total authorities to $8.9 billion. The majority of the additional funding sought through these supplementary estimates will advance the priorities of the government and Canadians. More specifically, it relates to the following activities: $732 million to support access by developing countries to vaccine therapeutics and diagnostics to fight COVID-19 to ensure a continuing comprehensive global response to the COVID-19 pandemic as many countries experienced a resurgence of cases and variants of COVID-19 continue to emerge; $250 million to support Canada’s response to the global food and humanitarian crisis, with a focus on sub-Sahara Africa to enable Canada to provide your urgently required funding to humanitarian partners, enabling them to deliver a more responsive and needs-based humanitarian response; $151.7 million for Canada’s response to advance Ukrainian resilience and early recovery, which will support immediate humanitarian needs, the developmental of agriculture solutions, and peace and security initiatives in Ukraine; $36.8 million for Canada’s engagement in United Nations peace operation and peacebuilding to continue efforts in conflict prevention, mobilization and peacebuilding in a fragile and conflict-affected state; $13.3 million to contribute to the horizontal initiative for immigration settlement measures, temporary accommodations and interim support for Ukrainians; and $8 million for the crisis quick release mechanism to scale up our humanitarian assistance.
So programming will be guided by country needs and will be implemented by trusted partners. Resources will be targeted where they will have the greatest impact, while also reinforcing Canadian leadership.
The department continues to measure performance and communicate results to Parliament and Canadians, as we emphasize responsible financial management to deliver against our mandate to ensure the highest standards of service to Canadians, particularly those requiring consular assistance abroad.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will be pleased to answer any questions you or other committee members may have about these supplementary estimates.
The Chair: Thank you, Ms. Boyer. We now recognize Mr. Patrick Amyot. Mr. Amyot, the floor is yours.
[Translation]
Patrick Amyot, Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Security Officer, Public Safety Canada: Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable senators.
As the Chief Financial Officer for Public Safety Canada, I want to thank you for the invitation to join you to discuss the authorities that the department is seeking through the 2022-23 Supplementary Estimates (B).
Like my colleagues, I would like to begin by acknowledging that I speak to you this evening on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishnaabeg people.
[English]
Supplementary Estimates (B) reflect Public Safety’s mandate to make Canadian communities strong, safe and resilient. The department is requesting to increase its voted operations by $1.6 billion. The most significant item is related to $1.5 billion for a Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangement program, or DFAA.
[Translation]
I would like to take a brief moment to address these Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements. We recognize that communities across Canada are experiencing extreme weather events and natural disasters more than ever before. Climate change is accelerating the frequency and severity of events like wildfires, flooding, and winter storms, which continue to disrupt lives, cause damage to critical infrastructure, and impact our supply chains. Only two months ago, post-tropical storm Fiona devastated residents of Atlantic Canada.
[English]
The longstanding DFAA program is one of the key instruments to support provinces and territories in recovery efforts. This program provides financial assistance to provincial and territorial governments when response and recovery costs from natural disasters exceed what they could be expected to bear on their own.
Since the launch of the DFAA program in 1970, over $7 billion has been contributed to the provinces and territories, 65% of which has been paid out in the last 10 years.
The $1.5-billion request in these Supplementary Estimates (B) is related to the recent disasters in British Columbia. The request represents the first drawdown from the unprecedented $5 billion funding announcement in the economic and fiscal update 2021, which reflected the extreme nature of the B.C. disaster. The increase in the frequency and cost of natural disasters in recent years led to the growing costs of the DFAA program.
As a result, a DFAA program review was launched in March 2022 to ensure that an adapted, sustainable system continues to be available to provinces and territories for disaster recovery. The review panel will submit a report with findings and recommendations to the Minister of Emergency Preparedness this fall.
There is also a request for $20.5 million for First Nations and Inuit Policing Facilities Program. This program supports Indigenous policing services through tripartite agreements among the federal government, provincial or territorial governments and the First Nations or Inuit communities.
[Translation]
There is a request in these supplementary estimates for $10.5 million related to the design and development of a buyback program for assault-style firearms. This represents the first year draw down against a $17-million funding announcement made in Budget 2022.
The buyback program is the key pillar of a comprehensive strategy to address gun violence and to strengthen gun laws in Canada. This funding enables the advancement of a buyback program for assault-style firearms which has the objective of tackling gun violence and keeping communities safe.
[English]
I thank the committee for giving Public Safety the opportunity to discuss these requests and any others that may be of interest to you this evening. I would like to reaffirm the department’s commitment to the stewardship of public resources during these unprecedented times.
[Translation]
The delivery of these important initiatives will be monitored to ensure the expected results are achieved for Canadians.
We look forward to discussing these budgetary authority requests with you. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Amyot. Now we’ll proceed to question period.
[English]
With the five-minute rule and one round.
Senator Marshall: My first question is for Mr. St-Pierre.
You mentioned in your opening remarks about the $63 million for improving processing times for the permanent resident and citizenship applications and the temporary resident applications. Can you give us some information on that program? I am interested in knowing what the backlogs are, exactly. My number seems to indicate around 2 million or 1 million and so I would be interested in what the backlogs are. What the money will be spent on. You did say 1,250 new staff. I am interested in when they will be hired to start the process.
What I am most interested in, what are your objectives? Are you expecting to have a half million applications processed by, I do not know, June 2023? I will be interested in what your performance criteria are going to be?
Mr. St-Pierre: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will provide some detail about the allocation of funds, and I will turn to my colleague Daniel Mills to speak a little bit about program objectives.
In terms of authorities, $39.8 million will go towards our permanent residents and citizenship programs and some $23.9 million will go to temporary residents’ applications. The department has already brought in 1,000 Full-time Equivalents, or FTEs, and will have brought in 12,050 new FTEs this fall and I will turn to my colleague Daniel Mills.
[Translation]
Daniel Mills, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: Thank you for the question. With regard to the inventory, our goal is to reduce the inventories accumulated during COVID-19. Currently, the inventory for all Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada business lines is $2.5 million; this includes all levels of temporary and permanent residents and all citizenship lines.
Since the summer, we have worked to reduce the total inventory by more than 325,000 applications. We are making great progress. We continue to receive new applications every day and we process more than we receive. That is why there has been a reduction since August in the inventory of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.
We plan to achieve our goal by attempting to return to our service standards. In terms of permanent residence, I’m really pleased to report, as the minister raised recently in the House of Commons, that we have returned to our service standards for all Express Entry and family class applications. All new applications that we are currently receiving will be processed within the prescribed time frame, according to our service standards; for Express Entry, it is six months and for family reunification, which concerns spouses, it is 12 months. For temporary residents, we’re working really hard to get back to our service standards, and for students, we plan to get back to our service standards of 60 days by the end of the calendar year, December 31 of this year. For workers, it will be early 2023.
[English]
Senator Marshall: How many applications do you have there that are beyond your service standards?
That is, I think, what you would refer to as your backlog. I am interested. Will you have all of them cleared up by June? I would like to have something specific so that the next time when you appear, I can ask you: Did you achieve your objective? Can you just focus on the backlog? How many are in your backlog?
[Translation]
Mr. Mills: It depends on the business lines. For the ones that are monitored, so, the people who apply, the ones that have prescribed levels, we can definitely get back to our service standards faster than the ones where we don’t monitor the applications, like students. I can provide the details to the committee afterwards. For students —
The Chair: Mr. Mills, one moment please.
[English]
Senator Marshall: I think that my time is over but I was interested in knowing what is the number in your backlog? You have an inventory of applications that are beyond your service standards. I was trying to get a handle on how you are going to deal with them and when do you think that all of them will be processed? I realize that my time is up. I will leave it that I did not get a clear answer and I will try next time around.
The Chair: Mr. Mills, or Mr. St-Pierre, complete the answer in writing, please?
Mr. St-Pierre: With pleasure.
The Chair: Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Moncion: My question is for Public Safety Canada officials and relates to assault weapons. You have indicated that there is $10.5 million to support the design and development of a buyback program for prohibited assault weapons. I would like to know how many of these weapons are in circulation. We know in advance that those who bring back assault weapons are probably going to be people who have no intention of doing anything with their assault weapon other than having fun, and that those who want to use them for less interesting things are going to keep them. Do you have any information on this?
Mr. Amyot: Thank you for the question. Yes, $10.5 million has been allocated to the development of the buyback program in our supplementary budgets. As for the number of firearms in circulation, I will direct you to my colleague Greg Kenney, who is responsible for the gun buyback program, to give you an answer.
Greg Kenney, Assistant Deputy Minister, Firearms Program, Public Safety Canada: Thank you, senator, for that excellent question.
[English]
We do know the number of registered firearms that meet the definition as outlined in the 2020 order-in-council. That number is 144,116. That number is provided by the Canadian Firearms Program at the RCMP. That is an approximation.
Of these, 110,292 were formerly classified as restricted and therefore registered. This represents approximately 80% of restricted rifles in Canada. The majority of which are in urban areas, as well as the bigger provinces of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia.
The remaining approximately 34,000 firearms were previously classified as non-restricted. This is purely an estimate since non-restricted firearms do not need to be registered and therefore their total number in Canada is unknown.
That estimation is based on open source records from 2012 which have been increased by 25% to account for observable trends in market growth.
Another approximate or included in that number is approximately 11,200 firearms, approximately 8% of the estimated total which are in the hands of firearms businesses.
Senator Moncion: Thank you. How many do you anticipate will use the program? Because at $10.5 million you do not necessarily have enough money to buy a lot.
Mr. Kenney: That is absolutely correct. The $10.5 million is to continue the development of the program itself, to advance the design, as well as explore different options for implementation.
The money is outlining $5.7 million or so to continue the development of the program. This includes development of the pricing scheme for businesses and individuals and options for implementation that will be put before the cabinet for consideration, in particular, to advance the definition phase of information management IT solution and a case management and portal solution, pending Treasury Board approval, of course.
It will enable the advancement of engagement with provincial, territorial and municipal governments and police services for implementation options in those different jurisdictions. It will advance different communications and information products as well.
Senator Moncion: When do you anticipate the program to be up and ready to do the buy-back?
Mr. Kenney: The program continues to be developed. We are putting options for consideration before government.
Senator Moncion: So you don’t have a date when it’s going to be implemented and people will be coming to you for the buy-back?
Mr. Kenney: Not at this stage, no.
Senator Moncion: Okay.
The Chair: Thank you, senator.
[Translation]
Senator Gignac: Depending on the length of the responses, I may offer some of my time to Senator Moncion.
My questions are for Mr. St-Pierre. When we talk about immigration, particularly in Quebec, we have to choose our words because it can be a sensitive subject. I am very open to immigration and it contributes to the creation of wealth. I’m trying to understand, for example, when you talk about an additional $658 million, since your budget for the Department of Immigration will reach $5.7 billion for the current year, that’s considerable. You are talking about 30,000 to 40,000 Afghans. Does it cost $15,000 to receive the men, women and children? Can you give me a more microeconomic breakdown of the cost for each Afghan we have to take in? I agree that we’re an industrialized country and we have to do our part, but I’m curious to know how much it costs per immigrant.
Mr. St-Pierre: That is an excellent question. I thank the senator for his question. The costing is determined by the type of refugee or person coming to Canada.
You have a number of them within the Afghanistan cohort; you have different types of refugees. The bulk of them are what are called federally supported refugees.
Usually, there is a unit cost that has been enhanced in the case of Afghanistan, given the particular logistical challenges and other things. The unit cost can be around $50,000 per program, depending on the duration, because people receive federal support for a 10-year period. To those costs, there are one-time costs for transportation and things like that, at the time of costing.
Senator Gignac: If I understand correctly, for the whole term, because there is the current year and the term, it is about $50,000. Is that correct?
Mr. St-Pierre: That is correct, yes.
Senator Gignac: My second question is about a program. You talk about an additional $170 million in your application to provide asymptomatic asylum seekers with temporary accommodation. How many people does that affect and how much does that cost per person?
Mr. St-Pierre: Here, the costs are directly related, as far as IRCC is concerned, to the number of people who use the services, and it is temporary accommodation that we offer to asylum seekers. This is particularly for people who arrive at the Canadian port of entry or obviously through Roxham Road. So, at the moment, we have about 23 hotels and 2,400 rooms booked that will be used by these asylum seekers.
This is done jointly with Quebec. The role of the federal government, obviously, is to offer a little bit of respite to the Quebec system until it can accommodate these people. IRCC provides this interim accommodation service and the costs are a result of both the number of people who come in and the number of rooms that are used in this instance; right now it’s about 2,400 rooms.
Senator Gignac: So we’re talking about 2,400 rooms.
There may be a few seconds left to give my colleague Senator Moncion.
[English]
Senator Smith: My question is for Global Affairs. I guess we would be talking to Ms. Boyer.
Your department is seeking $732 million, which you mentioned, in funding to support access by developing countries to vaccines as well as therapeutics and diagnostics to fight COVID-19. You mentioned Ukraine, the United Nations and immigration in your presentation. Is that part of the $732 million?
To date, what is the total amount of funding the federal government is committed to, or has transferred to other developing countries, or through international organizations, to fight COVID-19? I’m trying to get a summary on where we’re at trying to fight COVID-19 internationally.
Ms. Boyer: The $732 million is related to supporting the COVID-19 in developing countries. Other funding that we have in our Supplementary Estimates (B) relates to food security and support to Ukraine. It’s outside of the COVID support to developing countries.
Senator Smith: To date, how much have we spent or committed to countries actually looking for vaccines to fight COVID-19? Do you have a number?
Ms. Boyer: Yes, I do have a number. Since February 2020, the Government of Canada has contributed more than $3.4 billion in international assistance to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Senator Smith: That $3.4 billion is all directed at the COVID-19 or the variance of COVID?
Ms. Boyer: Exactly, and it includes the $732 million that we have in our supplementary estimates to date.
Senator Smith: Thank you.
Senator Boehm: I’ve taken a hand-off from Senator Smith on the COVID question. So, this is for Global Affairs. We’ll hope for the best, senator.
Of this $732 million, is this going to the Access to COVID-19 Tools (ACT) Accelerator, or ACT-Accelerator, through the World Health Organization, or is some of it bilateral as well? Is some of it going through partner organizations? What about those who could be most effective in war zones?
Ms. Boyer: Yes, the $732 million will continue to support the activities of the ACT-Accelerator partners. It’s through that mechanism that we are spending that money.
That’s a good question about the war zone, but I don’t have an answer to that for you today. I apologize.
Senator Boehm: This will all be going to the ACT-Accelerator run by the World Health Organization?
Ms. Boyer: Yes; that’s true.
Senator Boehm: All right. The request also mentions targeted countries with low vaccination rates. Do you know which countries these might be?
Ms. Boyer: That’s a good question. I apologize; I don’t have the answer.
Senator Boehm: Okay. Are we giving anything to Ukraine out of this, for example?
Ms. Boyer: Maybe I could turn to my colleague who will know more about the activities in Ukraine. I invite Kati Csaba, if you have an answer on that.
Kati Csaba, Executive Director, Ukraine Strategy action team, Global Affairs Canada: I am fully aware of funding directed specifically at Ukraine, but I do not have an answer on funding through the ACT-Accelerator that might be allocated to Ukraine.
Senator Boehm: Okay. I’m just curious about that. Is there a threshold in terms of identifying countries that are in greatest need here?
Ms. Boyer: I’m not aware of any, but I would be pleased to follow up and come back to you in writing.
Senator Boehm: Okay.
Then I have another question, which is for the 250 million to support Canada’s response to the global food and nutrition crisis, with a focus on sub-Saharan Africa. We know that crisis is rather serious, and the war in Ukraine has contributed to the gravity of it. But I would like a bit of expansion on this. Is a lot of this going to the World Food Program? Is it going to any other specialized agencies? Is it going to all of the countries in sub-Saharan Africa? Which in particular?
Again, we’re into conflict zones.
Ms. Boyer: Thank you for the question. I can start answering the question, and then maybe pass it to my colleague Tara Carney for additional details.
Approximately 75% of the $250 million is expected to be delivered through the United Nations, and 25% is expected to support Canadian non-governmental organizations.
I will invite my colleague, Tara Carney, to add additional details.
Tara Carney, Director, International Humanitarian Assistance (Africa, Middle East), Global Affairs Canada: Absolutely. Thank you for the question.
Indeed, the funding from the 250 is going to a range of partners. WFP is absolutely the main partner as the largest humanitarian food actor out there, but through this, we are also supporting UNICEF for their prevention of acute malnutrition, FAO for some of their more livelihood-resilience-related work so that this isn’t simply an immediate short-term solution. As was mentioned, 25% of this is going through Canadian NGOs — some of the big food and nutrition partners, such as Canadian Food Grains Bank, Care Canada, Save the Children Canada and World Vision Canada as well as the Humanitarian Response Network through the Humanitarian Coalition.
In terms of countries, the bulk of the funding is flowing through sub-Saharan Africa. Given that, in the humanitarian context, we are choosing our partners that can reach the hardest-to-reach populations. The fact that many of these countries are actually in conflict — either war zones or intercommunal conflict — is actually going to push a lot more of those populations into severe levels of vulnerability. Burkina Faso, the Central African Republic, the DRC, Ethiopia, Kenya, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan and Sudan are all receiving some of this funding. The list probably won’t surprise you, as they are among the most vulnerable to food insecurity in the world.
Senator Boehm: The ones we supported before. The situation is getting more serious with Russian mercenaries.
This is my last question: I’m assuming that, in doing that, you’re acting in concert with the donor countries as identified through the development assistance committee of the OECD?
Ms. Carney: Absolutely. Our responses are through coordinated humanitarian appeals, which are UN, NGO, Red Cross involved.
Senator Boehm: Thank you for indulging, chair.
Senator Duncan: Thank you very much. I would like to follow up on questions asked by my colleague to Citizenship and Immigration, particularly to Mr. Mills.
There has been money allocated to deal with the backlog of permanent residents and citizenship applications. Respectfully to my colleagues, all those applications aren’t processed in Montréal, Ottawa and Toronto; they are spread across the country. Could we have in writing — I don’t expect you to have this at hand — the backlog in each of the regional centres and the amount of money that will be spent in each of the regional centres to try to address the backlog of permanent residents and citizenship applications?
The other question I would like to ask is this: Could we have a note regarding the work of Citizenship and Immigration with provincial health care? For example, if a person immigrating to Canada goes to their provincial health care office without a provincial health care number, there is a certain amount of money that I believe Citizenship and Immigration pays to assist with the health care costs. Also, if a person is legally entitled to be in Canada but doesn’t quite have their citizenship papers, sometimes they will be extended a provincial health care number.
How much of the funding of this department and perhaps any supplementaries is allocated to assist with health care costs of those immigrating into Canada? If we could have that information in writing, as well please.
The Chair: Mr. St-Pierre, you have heard the questions from Senator Duncan. Do we agree that we will have the answers in writing, please?
Mr. St-Pierre: We can certainly provide the answers in writing or provide some elements of an answer right now.
The Chair: We will wait for the answers in writing, please. Thank you.
Mr. St-Pierre: Understood.
Senator Loffreda: Welcome to all our panellists this evening.
My question is for Public Safety Canada. The Security Infrastructure Program, SIP, you have in place is to make funding available to private not-for-profit organizations that are at risk of being victimized by hate-motivated crime. About $4 million is being sought in these Supplementary Estimates (B) for the enhancement of this program and for the protection of communities at risk of hate-motivated crimes.
Would it be possible to expand on what kinds of improvements will be made to the SIP? How will you be providing additional protection for at-risk communities?
Once again, although the $4 million is not a significant percentage of the $25.8 billion in incremental budgetary spending, of which $20.8 billion is to be voted and the $5-billion increase is in the forecast statutory expenditures, it is an important program such that its importance is not just reflected by the amounts requested.
Mr. Amyot: Thank you for the question.
SIP is seeking $4 million in Supplementary Estimates (B). The type of expenditures, what we reimburse or how we help communities is by helping them to secure their infrastructure, such as putting in cameras, securing fences and allowing for a more secure community-gathering place.
The reason we have $4 million is that we’re trying to increase the number of communities we can help. The rise of police-reported hate crimes in 2020 largely resulted from crimes targeting Black, Indigenous, Southeast Asian and South Asian populations. The funding will allow Public Safety to protect communities at risk, and help address the increased need and the groups that need it.
If you need more information, I can ask my colleague Mr. Westmacott to provide more information on what is specifically provided.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
Chad Westmacott, Director General, Community Safety, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Crime Prevention Branch, Public Safety Canada: Thanks very much. I don’t think I have much to add. As Mr. Amyot said, it was to go to support more projects in more communities.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you.
My next question is for Global Affairs Canada. We did discuss it. With respect to when Ukrainian and Russian relations became more aggravated, Canada readily welcomed Ukrainians seeking refuge from the war. We discussed the funding for the asylum seekers and the immigrants on the immigration front. That’s very important.
Can you elaborate further on the framework in place for settlement measures, temporary accommodations and income supports with regard to Ukrainian refugees and immigrants? What are the main challenges with respect to the resettlement of refugees, including Afghan refugees, for which you are requesting significant amounts for in these supplementary estimates?
Ms. Boyer: Thank you for the question. I would like to invite my colleague, Ms. Csaba, to provide an answer to this question. Thank you.
Ms. Csaba: I can speak to the Ukrainian portion of that question. Yes, in fact, there has been a program put in place by IRCC to support streams of Ukrainians coming to Canada, the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel program, or CUAET, which is a temporary program, and an expedited path for permanent residency through a new family sponsorship program, which is obviously a permanent program.
So the CUAET offers Ukrainians and their family members free, extended temporary status and enables them to work, study and stay in Canada until it is safe to return home.
In addition, the Government of Canada has chartered three flights to bring 953 Ukrainians fleeing the war into Canada. We waived the fees for travel and immigration documentation for Ukrainians and increased capacity to provide in-person services to Ukrainians in Poland applying to come to Canada. We also established Canadian Red Cross reception services at major airports, and provided transitional financial supports and up to 14 days of emergency hotel accommodation.
Senator Loffreda: Thank you. Second round.
[Translation]
Senator Dagenais: My questions are for Mr. Amyot.
Mr. Amyot, in Supplementary Estimates (B), there is $22.3 million to improve the integrity of Canada’s borders and refugee determination system. Obviously, as you mentioned, we’re talking about the Roxham Road file in Quebec.
What is the total budget this year for the Roxham Road file? What is the forecast for the next few years, since the current government has no intention of closing it?
Mr. Amyot: Thank you for the question. I don’t think your question is directed at Public Safety Canada. I did not mention Roxham Road.
Senator Dagenais: Earlier, someone mentioned Roxham Road.
Mr. Amyot: I think it was my colleague.
Senator Dagenais: Perhaps it was one of the representatives from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada?
Mr. St-Pierre: I can provide some details. We are working with partners at the Canada Border Services Agency, particularly in terms of receiving asylum seekers at the border.
IRCC’s expenditures for the current year are $193 million. These expenditures are for IRCC operations directly related to the Roxham Road issue and the arrival of asylum seekers in an irregular manner.
Senator Dagenais: Also on the issue of Roxham Road, we recently learned in the media that over five years, $27 million had been awarded to a supplier of personal protective equipment without a call for tenders. One can seriously wonder what the urgency is to act, especially since this situation has been known for five years.
Can you tell us if this is a process that will continue? If so, who has imposed this decision? To what extent could there be greater transparency in the decisions that are made on this kind of expenditure?
Mr. St-Pierre: Thank you for the question.
As for IRCC — I’ll find my note in a moment — 44 contracts were issued in relation to the Roxham Road. As I said, contracts may have been issued for some of our other partners, including the Canada Border Services Agency. Thirty-six of these contracts are worth $22 million. They were awarded directly by IRCC. Eight contracts totalling $63 million were awarded by Public Works and Government Services Canada.
Also in this group, 14 of these contracts, worth $37 million, were awarded through a competitive bidding process and 30 contracts, worth $48 million, were awarded to a single supplier. All contracts over $10,000 were disclosed in accordance with the usual rules we follow for the federal public service.
Senator Dagenais: This was done with or without calls for tenders.
Mr. St-Pierre: That is correct.
Senator Dagenais: Thank you very much.
Senator Bellemare: I will continue with Mr. St-Pierre from IRCC.
I will go very quickly.
Can you explain the numbers very briefly for those who are looking in the documents or those who are watching us and would like to understand? In one of the programs for which money is being requested, the 2022-24 Immigration Levels Plan fund, there is $111.8 million in Supplementary Estimates (B). This amount is divided into Vote 1(b) for operations, $76.9 million; Vote 5(b) for capital; and Vote 10(b), $34.7 million in grants and contributions.
Can you comment on these amounts so that we understand what is behind these numbers? What is the mission of the 2022-24 Immigration Levels Plan?
Mr. St-Pierre: Thank you very much. That’s an excellent question.
I will invite my colleague Daniel Mills, to provide you with further details as this is his primary responsibility.
The Immigration Levels Plan sets immigration targets for permanent residents for Canada. The $111 million is essentially derived from three types of expenditures. There are operating expenditures for staff who process immigration cases. A large portion of this fund is in the form of grants and contributions, which are paid to organizations that deal with newcomers at the local level, that is, in each community.
Expenditures can be capitalized. This is the famous Vote 5, which will be used to make improvements to Elections Canada’s computer system. So we have an investment fund.
I hope I have answered your question.
Senator Bellemare: Yes, thank you.
[English]
Senator Omidvar: My questions are to our colleagues from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, and I would like to follow the line of questioning by my colleagues on asylum housing, the provisions in the estimates for providing housing to asylum seekers.
My question is, will this money go over the provinces to hot spots or directly to the hot spots? The two hot spots are frankly Toronto and Montréal.
Mr. St-Pierre: Excellent questions. The $193 million here is directly related to interim housing, so these are largely hotels and temporary shelter operations that we have to support the hot spots directly, to use the senator’s expression.
There is also a program — not part of our Supplementary Estimates (B) here — which is the Interim Housing Assistance Program, or IHAP, in which the federal government has committed over $750 million to help provinces deal with the pressures that the asylum seekers’ arrival has put on the provincial shelters. That program was renewed through the last budget, I believe.
Senator Omidvar: Thank you. Mayor Tory will be very happy to hear that. My next question is around whether, in your estimates for dealing with the backlog, you have factored the cost of the rising number of mandamus applications, a route more and more immigrants are choosing because of the over-long delays? Has that been factored in, because it costs the department a significant amount of resources and money to process these demands?
Mr. St-Pierre: It’s an excellent question. I cannot — unless my colleagues have more detail — specifically attest that this was taken in direct consideration, but certainly in arriving at any costing exercise, there is a broad consultation that goes through the department, including our legal services, and we would have factored all of these direct and indirect costs in arriving at the amount of money that we’re seeking right now.
Senator Omidvar: What is your annual budget for legal costs? I’m just curious.
Mr. St-Pierre: I do not have that top of mind, but I’m happy to return to the committee with that answer.
Senator Omidvar: That will be great.
My numbers tell me that the backlog is 1.2 million, Senator Marshall; that is the number of people whose waiting time has exceeded standards.
Did I hear someone say that this backlog in all business streams would be cleared up by June of 2023?
Mr. St-Pierre: Mr. Chair, I would like to turn to my colleague, Daniel Mills, to speak specifically to the backlog.
[Translation]
Mr. Mills: Thanks for the question, senator. Our inventory of files is 2.5 million, and 51% of them meet our service standards. You are correct when you say there are 1.2 million applications that do not meet our service standards.
With respect to the June 2023 date, I cannot confirm that everything will be settled by then, because there are lines of business where we depend on the annual immigration level, which the government tables in the House in November every year. In some categories, we cannot completely eliminate the inventory because there is no room in our reference levels. That said, as far as the temporary line is concerned, our goal is to eliminate it as much as possible in the coming months. As I mentioned earlier, for students, it will be at the end of the calendar year, and for workers, it will be at the beginning of 2023.
[English]
Senator Omidvar: My final, short question is: how many new staff have been hired, trained and are operational now?
[Translation]
Mr. Mills: We have hired over 1,100 people, and over 850 of them are fully operational. The difference between the two is due to the number of people currently in training who will be joining our workforce in the coming weeks.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Omidvar.
To Mr. St-Pierre, Ms. Boyer and Mr. Amyot, to remind you, please submit written responses to the clerk by the end of the day on Wednesday, December 7, 2022. Do we agree on that?
Mr. St-Pierre: We do.
The Chair: We do, thank you.
For the senators, the next meeting will be Tuesday, December 6 at 8:30 a.m. to continue our study on the subject matter of Bill C-32.
I now declare the meeting adjourned.
(The committee adjourned.)