THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Monday, May 2, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights met with videoconference this day at 5 p.m. [ET] to examine such issues as may arise from time to time relating to human rights generally.
Senator Salma Ataullahjan (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, I welcome you all to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights. I am Salma Ataullahjan, a senator from Toronto and chair of the committee.
I would like to introduce the members of the committee who are participating in this meeting. We have Senator Arnot from Saskatchewan, Senator Boyer from Ontario, Senator Wells from Newfoundland and Senator Francis from Prince Edward Island. Welcome to all of you and to those viewing these proceedings on senvu.ca.
Today, we are conducting a study that began in 2019 on the forced and coerced sterilization of persons in Canada. This committee tabled an interim report on this topic in June 2021. This is our second meeting on the topic in this parliamentary session. The June 2021 report underlined the importance of hearing from survivors about their experiences. Today, our committee is clearly responding to this recommendation by hearing from six women who have agreed to share their stories and their views. I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank our witnesses for agreeing to participate in this very important study.
I will now introduce our first panel of witnesses. We have Witness A, who wishes to remain anonymous, Sylvia Tuckanow and Elizabeth Esquega. They are accompanied by Alisa Lombard, a lawyer from Lombard Law. Welcome to all of you, and thank you for being with us.
I would also like to take this opportunity to recognize Senator Kim Pate, who has joined us.
Witness A, you now have the floor.
Witness A, as an individual: Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the members of the committee for providing me the opportunity to give my testimony today.
Starting off, I would like to acknowledge the ancestral territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe Nation, and First Nations, Métis and Inuit people from across Canada.
Honourable senators, I’m very grateful to be here today. I greet you in the most humble and respectful way. I would also like to acknowledge God above with committing my experience toward serving a higher power while also expressing my gratitude toward the courage and bravery of champion advocates Brenda Pelletier and Tracy Bannab for first breaking this story in 2015. I give very special thanks to all survivors nationwide who, in this cause, hope for justice and stand united in the gap.
I am the founding leading plaintiff of a proposed class-action suit that addresses the coercive sterilization of Indigenous women in Saskatchewan. Nationwide, I believe that includes thousands of Indigenous women across Canada. I am a proud member of Fishing Lake First Nation in Treaty 4 territory, a loving mother of two children and a citizen of the Anishinabeg nation.
Today, I stand in solidarity with several survivors and several Indigenous women whose human rights were violated during their labour and delivery. Our experiences are similar in that when Indigenous women were at their most vulnerable and exposed during labour and delivery, our basic human rights to free, prior and informed consent were compromised, which not only rendered Indigenous women sterile but also forever removed generations of future unborn from ever receiving their inherent treaty rights. Where the violated have Indian status, such as myself, the repercussions reflect in an inability to pass that status on to future generations and decreases the numbers of our people. This practice is, in all manners, nothing short of genocide.
In September 2008, prior to and up to my delivery, during and following the C-section of my now 13-year-old son, from a variety of health care practitioners and providers, I was interrogated, shamed and subjected to systemic racial profiling and harassment. I was further marginalized and violated when I was forcefully sterilized. I was told that the procedure was reversible and that I didn’t want to be in that kind of situation again.
Upon my release from the hospital on the following day after I brought my newborn baby home, due to the birth alert, my son’s human rights were violated when, on his first day home, he was apprehended by Child and Family Services. While I had the resources to access justice to have my son returned to my care, many of the survivors who suffered the same fate did not and lost their children to the system of Child and Family Services. Later, when I reviewed both mine and my son’s Child and Family Services file, to my utter horror, it had read that, prior to the birth of my son, he was earmarked for permanent wardship.
As a survivor of coercive sterilization, next to screaming into the void, there are no words to describe the violation and powerlessness of having your cultural identity as a woman essentially sterilized. Such an inhumane, brutal act can only be compared to being gutted wholly alive.
Your report on this study is hopefully followed by legislative and policy reform, concrete action and acknowledging that the rampant and deeply harmful coercive and forced sterilization of Indigenous women must be actioned at the highest levels to ensure respect for free, prior and informed consent of Indigenous women. Without legislation and policy reform, such Canadian laws that have adversely impacted so many Indigenous women will continue to thrive on the foundations of colonialism.
In solidarity with fellow survivors, I implore the Senate Human Rights Committee to right this historical wrong and to end the coercive sterilization of Indigenous women. It is my opinion that criminalizing this gross human rights violation is a critical step toward ending the disturbance of our people’s survival as a distinct nation and toward ensuring justice and healing. It would be a peaceful gesture toward lasting reconciliation for generations to come. To that end, we look forward to your feedback, and we welcome any decisions on how best to build upon the foundation of the study to achieve justice, peace and healing.
I thank you for your valued time, Madam Chair, Senate committee members and fellow survivors across Canada. Meegwetch.
I’m sorry, I didn’t anticipate being so nervous.
The Chair: You were fine. If you were nervous, we didn’t see it.
Witness A: I’m literally shaking. I can feel it.
The Chair: Thank you for your testimony. You were great. Thank you so much.
We will now turn to the next witness, Sylvia Tuckanow.
Sylvia Tuckanow, as an individual: Hi. Good afternoon. My name is Sylvia Tuckanow, and I am a 49-year-old Cree woman from Peepeekisis First Nation in Saskatchewan.
I have six children and 14 grandchildren, and I am also an Indian day school survivor. My parents and late husband are residential school survivors. Having a big family was my dream. I love my family to the fullest. My children tragically lost their father eight years ago. In his culture, they did not believe in birth control, and being forcefully sterilized had a huge impact on our marriage, which ended in divorce. I no longer felt and I no longer feel like a complete woman.
I was sterilized against my will when I was 29 years old. On July 9, 2001, I went to Royal University Hospital in Saskatoon in active labour. I gave birth to a healthy baby boy, with my late husband by my side. Shortly after the birth, I heard my husband in the hall saying loudly to nurses, “I’m not signing that.” No one asked me anything or explained anything to me about what he had been asked, and I’m absolutely sure that I didn’t sign anything.
As soon as my husband left the hospital, I was taken into an elevator in a wheelchair to another room. I can’t recall if I went up or down, as I was still disoriented from giving birth and the effects of pain medications. I was placed outside this room by the door. I managed to see into the room, which was unfamiliar to me. I automatically felt fear, so I started trying to wheel myself back to the direction of where the elevator was, but I didn’t make it because a man came up behind me and wheeled me back towards that room. I told him I didn’t want to do this, but he didn’t listen. I didn’t know exactly what I was objecting to at the time, but I had a terrible feeling because no one had talked to me about what was going on. I felt terror and fear as I was taken into that room.
A few nurses surrounded me — I don’t know exactly how many nurses — to prepare me for an epidural. I already had an epidural sticking out of my back from giving birth, so I wondered why they needed to do another one. I kept asking if the one already there could be used. I was trying to stall them, I believe, because I was coming up with excuses. During this, I kept saying “No, I don’t want to do this,” and crying uncontrollably, but nobody listened to me. I was completely ignored by everyone in that room.
I was so vulnerable because my legs weren’t working properly because of giving birth and having the first epidural. I was put in that bed in total fear. I kept crying and I was terrified. I was hyperventilating because of the position I was in on that bed. My head was positioned lower than my body, and they tied me down to the bed.
I could also smell something burning, which reminds me of the smell of singed chickens to this day. I asked the man doing the surgery if he was done a few times. He didn’t reply until the procedure was done. When he was finished, he said: “There, tied, cut and burnt. Nothing will get through that.”
I felt relief that I was getting out of that room. I was taken back to the maternity ward, and it was then that I got to hold my son. I can’t recall if I held my baby before they brought me to the operating room to sterilize me, but I don’t think that I did hold him.
This terrifying experience left a void inside me. I felt no longer a woman, and I am terrified of hospitals and doctors.
I didn’t say anything to anybody because I thought no one would believe me. When Melika Popp, Brenda Pelletier and Roxanne Ledoux came forward, that’s when I decided to come out with my story. I felt relief knowing that I wasn’t the only woman this happened to. I lived with this terrifying experience alone for 14 years. Now I am telling my story to anyone and everyone who will listen. I was also involved with the external review that happened in Saskatoon. Everything I am doing is so important to me because I am advocating for other women to come forward, and I know how scary and hard this is.
When my daughter recently gave birth to my fourteenth grandchild, I could not be with her because of COVID restrictions. This caused me much anxiety and fear because I don’t want what happened to me to happen to her. Our co-plaintiff, DDS, is about the age of my daughters, so I know it can happen to my girls, and their girls one day, if something serious isn’t done, and I’m terrified.
But we are not alone anymore. We will stand together. We know women around the world who this has happened to: in Peru, South Africa and so many other places.
I am standing up to protect our future generations and our nations from this genocide. We can’t be scared of that word. Imagine all the little spirits who would be here in our lives to teach us and learn from us and to form the backbone of strong Indigenous nations. What they did to me and my family, and so many others, was wrong, and they need to be held accountable, including criminally, for these horrendous, tortuous and genocidal acts.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you for that very powerful testimony. We will now turn to Elizabeth Esquega.
Elizabeth Esquega, as an individual: Booshoo, my name is Liz Esquega. I’m here to share my story with face and voice no longer hidden. I want to say meegwetch to Honourable Senator Yvonne Boyer and Honourable Senator Audette, as well as lawyer Alisa Lombard, for their commitment and support, and also to the other members of the panel and the women, men and families also impacted by coerced and forced sexual sterilization.
I attest that I was both coerced and forced to be sexually sterilized and to abort my unborn child simultaneously without full knowledge of the life impacts. When coercion or force is used for the purpose of compliance, it is both unethical and morally wrong, to say the least.
My story goes back to the late 1970s. I was a teen mom and did not grasp the gift of being a mother, or, for that matter, pregnancy, and all that it entailed. While it is difficult to pinpoint actual dates, I do recall timelines and surrounding life events, which I will now share.
My circumstance differs as I was not only sexually sterilized but also forced to have an abortion. The assigned Children’s Aid Society worker demanded that they would, and I quote, “take the baby one way or another.” Those are words that I never forgot. I also never forgot waking up after surgery with an emptiness and knowing that I was now an accomplice in terminating life, as this was something that I could not do willingly, for if abortion was a crime, I was now a partaker, not only against my unborn child, but against myself and the Creator. I felt empty, with my maternal instinct and God-given ability to bear life cut and ripped from me.
These life-altering experiences preceded the sudden death of my mother in 1978. I had not experienced the death of a loved one before. I am sure that anyone who has lost a loved one will agree that grief is overwhelming, as it takes time to heal. The loss of my mother deepened as it thrust me towards a greater loss. As I stated earlier, the life events are timelines and put into perspective what transpired. Although what happened is not right, I ask: When can we correct the wrong?
I had no one to share the immense pressure put upon me by the social worker or doctor. I did not know what to do or where to turn as another life trauma was intensified and triggered.
As a child, I was sexually abused, and I understand the link between sexual violence and sexual sterilization. Both are just as harmful, degrading, shocking and traumatizing. Even more important, the actions and words by the social worker and doctor are themselves nothing short of a crime. The contrast between sexual sterilization and abuse are aggressive, with motivations of power and control. The way the CAS worker and the doctor treated me are akin to the traits of an abuser with their unwanted touches and the invasion of sacred parts of my body and being. They are like sexual predators in their use of power and force over a person, where the act leaves one feeling helpless.
These acts went without complaint or investigation. Instinctively I knew something was wrong, yet I had no alternative until now. I just lived with it and suffered in silence. I know that fear, shame and guilt are associated with sexual sterilization and sexual abuse. Both are violent acts, and I internalized deep-seated fear, shame and guilt. This led to a greater loss of my own being as shame overtook my sense of self.
I did not know then, but I know now, that sexual sterilization is part of the eugenics era where labels such as “defective,” “unfit” and “unworthy” were words used to identify people for sterilization. Those who have never experienced this type of harm will never understand, nor will they see the correlation with the sexual nature of the violence in the act. I see them because I lived them.
Having internalized over a lifetime, I know that sexual violence takes different forms, one of which is coercion. I suffer psychological effects on my overall physical health to this day. Sexual sterilization is mutilation, and my body has a degree where the scars I have are constant reminders: physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.
I did not share the details of what happened with my family for over 40 years. I can finally come forward and say, “This happened to me.” Sadly, it has also happened to countless others and is still happening. There are times I think about the people who will never know the joy of having a child or grandchildren, and there are others who have passed on without us ever knowing or hearing their story — made barren by sexual sterilization, as the target were Indigenous people.
Despite all of this, I have two beautiful daughters and five grandchildren, as the Creator’s timelines were far greater than theirs or mine. The Creator has blessed me, and I know there is no greater power.
Honourable senators and listeners, while I have shared a portion of my life experience, I am resilient. I know that being an Anishinaabe woman in this world can be challenging and wonderfully beautiful. I see the beauty despite the ugliness that has happened to the Indigenous people, both in Canada and in the world. They may have cut my ability to bear more children and slashed life from my womb, but my ties to the Creator are aligned with grace. I hope that sharing my story will empower others to come forward.
In closing, there are 30 articles in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as proclaimed by the United Nations General Assembly on December 10, 1948. Article 1 states:
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
In this same spirit, I thank you for listening. Meegwetch.
The Chair: Thank you to all of you for sharing your powerful stories.
We will proceed to questions from senators. I would like to remind each senator that you have five minutes for your question, and that includes the answer.
Witness A, you had indicated that you did not want any questions asked. Are you still feeling like that, or are you feeling comfortable in answering questions?
Witness A: Yes, I am comfortable in answering questions if anyone has any questions for me. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you so much for that. We will proceed to Senator Boyer for the first question.
Senator Boyer: Thank you to all of you for your powerful testimony. What you have done today is freeing the women who haven’t come forward, because they hear you, they hear your power, and they see your power and your shining. Thank you.
I want to know from each of you what you think the federal government should do to stop this heinous practice.
Witness A: I would like to see legislative change and policy reform to ensure that these kinds of human rights violations end; that it leaves no question for any Indigenous woman, or any woman, to be coercively sterilized; and that, as a consequence, it be criminalized. I think that, with consequences, it won’t happen as much, I hope.
Ms. Tuckanow: I think the same thing, that they need to be held accountable, so criminalization and changing policies.
Witness A: I also think that the federal government and the provinces should address this matter with the seriousness that it requires. So far, there have been ongoing delays and a lot of stonewalling, it seems. Maybe they don’t realize or understand that there are lives hanging in the balance and that, for some people, waking up every day is a struggle. I would appreciate it if our Prime Minister and our premiers were able to address this matter as a leader should.
Ms. Esquega: The question was what steps I think the federal government should take to prevent future incidents of forced and coerced sterilization. I think there shouldn’t be future incidents and that it must stop now. Having said that, this is the first step, seeing the gathering of the senators and the survivors, the women and the families of the women. I think that that is a big major step in the right direction. But really, there shouldn’t be any more.
The Chair: I want to acknowledge that we have been joined by Senator Lankin and Senator Gerba.
Senator Wells: I would like to thank the witnesses for appearing before us and helping us, certainly helping me. When we first looked at this, I spoke with Senator Boyer about it a couple of years ago, and I couldn’t believe that it was happening in our country, in our day and age. I was shocked that it was happening. It was like watching a movie where you say this is a fiction. That’s what I thought when I first heard it. I want to thank you for your courage in appearing before us today. Appearing before a Senate committee, you are now expert witnesses. That’s now your position in educating me, and I want to thank you for your courage.
There was a mention of criminalizing the practice. I assume that would be criminalizing the forced and coerced, because the practice may still go on where it’s not forced and coerced but requested and consented. Aside from making the forced and coerced illegal or a crime, are there things that can be put in place as part of a process that slows down any decision-making process? The decision-making process, I understand in the past, was that the decision was made by the medical staff, not by you. I will ask all of you individually. Is there any sort of a process or steps that can be put in that would slow this down to give it due and fair consideration where you consult your families, any spiritual leaders you might have, and certainly your husbands or your partners? Can you help me with that part of the process that could become law?
Perhaps I would ask Ms. Esquega to address that first and then the other witnesses.
Ms. Esquega: I’m still processing your question in my mind and trying to come up with an answer to that, because it is a difficult question for me to answer at this point. Can I have a few more minutes? I am still processing what I just said.
Senator Wells: Of course.
Ms. Esquega: So please excuse me at this moment, thank you.
Senator Wells: In many ways, I’m still processing that this is still happening.
Perhaps, Ms. Tuckanow, you can take an attempt at it?
Ms. Tuckanow: Me too, the same thing. I’m thinking about your question. I know, for one, there needs to be policy changes, and definitely, like with the consultation, not to be making these decisions after birth, or even while pregnant. It shouldn’t even be brought up. It shouldn’t even be talked about until well after you give birth. But I’m still thinking of your question, so I’m just saying what is coming off the top of my head right now.
Senator Wells: Sure. No, what you say makes good sense. What I’m thinking about, and when I try to think about this, I try to think of a solution or a process solution that would give a pause to the process and put the power to the patient, the client, the mother or the prospective mother, rather than put the power to the medical team. That’s also a process question because, if you didn’t have the time to give this consideration or the full suite of information and ramifications — and obviously some things that were not true were put to you as fact — given time and a process where the full, informed truth can be presented — I’m having a hard time even asking the question because I want to be clear.
Perhaps our first witness could try?
Witness A: In relation to free, prior and informed consent, I think that, number one, the health care officials need to be updated and educated on said consequences and/or penalties and/or criminal charges should coercion continue in any way, shape or form.
I know that in my experience, it wasn’t informed. My mother had — she died about two years ago — home care for several years. Some of her clients had to take every proper channel to ensure that this is what they wanted done. They had to see specialist after specialist and everything like that. But in my case, and in a lot of the other women’s situation, that time was not given to us; it was offered in a time of severe pain, while in the throes of labour.
I think that, going forward, hospital staff need to understand that there would be consequences, and those consequences would be implemented at a provincial and federal level. This is why I’m suggesting that this process has to be criminalized or have some kind of penalty, suspension or consequence. That’s just one aspect of it. That’s not including damages and pain and suffering to the afflicted who suffered and continue to suffer.
Senator Wells: Thank you.
Senator Francis: As a First Nation man, I want to thank you all very much, witnesses. You have all shown tremendous strength and courage while discussing a topic that is so personal and difficult.
My question is to all of you. What role do you think systemic and institutional racism played in your cases?
Witness A: 100%. This would not have happened if I was not a woman of colour. This would not have happened if I went in there with a husband and a family. I was profiled. I was marginalized. I was racially profiled. I did not want this happening to me.
Senator Francis: Thank you for that. Would any of the others like to respond?
Ms. Esquega: Honourable senator, could I ask you to repeat the question? I was just thinking about it.
Senator Francis: Yes, absolutely. What role do you think systemic and institutional racism played in your case?
Ms. Esquega: I think that racism definitely was a factor in it. Having said that, I think that institutions such as hospitals and such should have educational programs, especially about institutional racism and such. There needs to be a bigger educational aspect involved here as well, not only for the medical professionals but for all professionals involved. In my case, I can’t think of where I had an opportunity to speak with an actual counsellor or a social worker about the long-term effects of what I was going into here. That wasn’t offered. All I recall is being in a small room with a doctor in a white coat and the social worker standing in the corner, and both of them taking their shot at me, so to speak. So, yes, I think that’s definitely racism.
Senator Francis: Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you. Sylvia, would you like to respond to that question?
Ms. Tuckanow: Can I not answer?
The Chair: Of course, of course.
Senator Pate: Thank you to all the witnesses. I used to be on this committee, but I’m currently substituting for Senator Omidvar. I want to thank you all for your testimony. I would agree with all my colleagues that it is very important testimony.
Oftentimes, when we hear of these kinds of abuses, individual and systemic, the first and only thing offered is the criminal law, which can be a blunt instrument. In this case, from my hearing, what you have described has already violated criminal law. You were assaulted. You were sexually assaulted. It was also contrary to the medical codes of the doctors and nurses, all the medical professionals. It violated your human rights, and yet there has been no accountability.
I was reviewing Justice Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond’s report In Plain Sight about the abuses in the medical system in B.C. She makes a number of recommendations about accountability within the medical profession for the kinds of oversight that will prevent this from happening.
My worry about going to criminal law first, quite frankly, as someone who has worked in that area for a long time, is that a lot of people spend a lot of time avoiding responsibility. It strikes me that, first, there needs to be an acceptance. I don’t know if anyone has apologized to you. On behalf of my small part in this part of the government, I want to express my sincere apologies that you had to live through what you had to live through.
Also, there have been many recommendations, including from some of the former witnesses, about the need for the cultural competencies training recommended by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Nothing can change what has happened to you now, but what would accountability look like for you? What would some kind of remedy look like for each of you, if you are comfortable sharing?
Witness A: I guess exploring the possibility of establishing a partnership between the survivors in addressing the existing oversights toward legislation and policy. That could be a good start forward. But, also, for the defendants, their approach on this could be a little bit more mindful of the fact that we’re human beings, you know? We didn’t deserve to be treated like this. That’s overlooked in all of this because with a lot of people — at least from a lot of the things I have seen online, and I don’t look anymore because I have been somewhat re-traumatized — there is a lot of ignorance surrounding this, and that ignorance is painful.
Society could benefit from education, cultural education, and understanding of the real harms done to us women and our children. There is intergenerational trauma that we have to consider from this. This was a very traumatizing, life-altering experience. If there were maybe a class that every nurse, every doctor, could take every year to understand that their actions have real consequences in people’s lives?
The Chair: Thank you. Would anybody else like to answer that question?
Ms. Esquega: Sure. I’ll say this. I had it written down in other areas of the questions here, but I was thinking about a review of the policies; enhanced race relations to include Indigenous history; cultural competency, as you already mentioned; also including a history of racism, especially as it relates to Indigenous people and history; educating the medical professionals more so in that regard; providing counselling; more awareness to the public that this isn’t just a figment of some people’s imagination, but these are actual truths and stories from women who have experienced these horrendous acts; and the need to further acknowledge that this has not only happened nationally but also internationally.
There isn’t enough information out there on it. The first information that I actually came across on this topic was the document written by Dr. Yvonne Boyer and Dr. Judy Bartlett. That was the first time I have actually seen anything in print on sterilization of Indigenous women. I read that report and I was just totally flabbergasted. I couldn’t believe what I was reading because to see it actually in print and to say this happened to me, that just set it all in motion for me, to see that. That needs to happen more. There needs to be more out there.
We’re hearing right now about the history of Indian residential schools. Well, within those residential schools as well, our children were sterilized in there as well. That has to come out, too.
Senator Lankin: I truly want to thank the witnesses. Their courage is amazing. I’m here today substituting for Senator Michèle Audette from Quebec. I know that Senator Audette would say it’s so important for us to hear from you directly and to honour your truth and your voices. I wish to join her in that, to say that on her behalf and to add my voice to it. Also, I am just amazed at your courage and how deep you have to dig to speak about these things. I want to acknowledge and say to you, please don’t feel pressured to answer our questions in any way. Anything you want to contribute is helpful.
As I listened to you, Ms. Esquega — you started to highlight this — I was thinking about a lot of things, firstly, bringing it to the public. We need to build an understanding, and I think some of the work that has been done by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, giving voice and educating people, as well as what we now learn about the extent of the tragedy in residential schools, all of that highlights and brings Canadians closer together with Indigenous First Peoples to understand that we have to do something about this. I take that as one of your recommendations, Ms. Esquega, and others who have spoken.
I think putting this in the course curriculum for medical students, nursing students, all health professionals and child welfare workers may be important. I remember, as Minister of Health in Ontario, when I had that role, bring forward consent to treatment legislation and all the things you’re talking about at a provincial level should never be able to happen with the legislation that we have. It’s like Senator Pate spoke about the Criminal Code of Canada. These things are illegal and already opposed to policy. I agree with you. It has only happened and will only continue to happen to Indigenous women, because you’re Indigenous, and it must be rooted out of our system.
I know one of our sister senators is bringing forward a proposal to add antiracism as a pillar foundation in the delivery of health services, antiracism in policies and education, and I think that’s something else I take from what you have said.
I suggest, lastly, and you want to comment on this one, that there has been a real beginning of a transition to ensure that child welfare is being administered by Indigenous peoples themselves, and we need to understand how far that has gone and how far it hasn’t gone. Bringing Indigenous values, Indigenous voices and Indigenous leadership and authority to the administration of child welfare may also be an important part of this.
The other things I have said I took from what you have said, but this last point, I would like you to, perhaps, address whether any of you had access to supports and services from Indigenous child welfare workers.
Witness A: I didn’t have any support from any Indigenous childcare worker or health care official when I went in. After I had my son, there were lots of families in the room that had their family members come in, their husbands, their families, to greet the baby and everything, and I didn’t have that. I remember feeling that shame and that loss, you know, that grief. I did ask the staff for a private room and if I could see a priest, just because I was struggling spiritually and I was embarrassed and ashamed. I did get the private room, but I didn’t have any Indigenous supports. I wish I would have.
Senator Lankin: Thank you.
Senator Arnot: Thank you. I want to say I acknowledge the great courage it took for you to tell your stories today and the emotional stress and the obvious trauma it has caused you. I want you to know that your message has been very compelling and very helpful.
As the Senate continues to study this issue, I would like to know what you think should be done to ensure that survivors like yourselves can be reached, can be consulted and can come forward so that the truth is made public in a way that is respectful to you and has the most impact on Canadian society.
Ms. Esquega: I think our First Nation leaders and our community leaders need to get involved at some point as well, because we’re going to go back home to our communities. We have shared our stories. I started with my family, because I didn’t really share it with anyone else before, so this is the first time I’m actually showing my face and my voice to my story. It’s a hard story to share, and I didn’t expect myself to be so emotional, because I don’t know how many times I read through it and thought, “That’s fine,” you know. It just hits you out of some clear, blue sky. I think we need our community leaders’ support as well, and I think one of the other members mentioned that we have to have our traditional people, our knowledge keepers and our elder circles, to help us, because that’s the path I’m on today.
The Chair: Thank you.
Sylvia, would you like to respond to that? Are you comfortable not responding? You don’t want to. Thank you.
Witness A, would you like to respond to that question? You don’t have to.
Witness A: We’re in the process of establishing a survivor’s society for survivors nationwide, and that could be an option to contact us when exploring our involvement.
The Chair: Thank you very much for that.
I want to remind the witnesses that in case you feel there is something that you missed or something that you would like to add to your testimony, you can always send us a written submission. I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your testimonies and for sharing your personal stories. You have shown immense courage, for which we are grateful. Your testimonies will contribute to our study, and we greatly appreciate that.
I would like to now introduce our second panel of witnesses. We have Morningstar Mercredi, Nicole Rabbit and Witness B who is a registered nurse but who wants to remain anonymous. They are accompanied by Alisa Lombard from Lombard Law. Welcome to all, and thank you for being with us. Madam Mercredi, you have the floor.
Morningstar Mercredi, as an individual: I’m thankful to the senators, Alisa Lombard and all those present for this opportunity.
Before I say anything, I need to acknowledge the grandmothers, aunties, mothers, women, unborn children, unborn generations of our children and those grandmothers, aunties and mothers that are no longer with us but certainly have also been impacted within their own families and communities — impacted by forced coerced sterilization. Certainly in my family, I can say that was and is the case with three generations of women.
It would be inappropriate and disrespectful of me to not acknowledge the women that have gone before us and their advocacy work — which has been ongoing for decades — for the human rights of Indigenous, Métis and Inuit women and women of colour.
My late Grannie Annie had nine of her children in the Charles Camsell Indian Hospital in Edmonton, Alberta. Of all of her children, four survived. Of the four that survived, two or three were in the Charles Camsell Indian Hospital, and of those four, only two were able to conceive and have children. That was my late mother and my late Aunt Céline. My late Aunt Eva and my uncle were not able to conceive.
It is my opinion that we will never adequately be able to determine the number of women, men, girls and boys that were sterilized in residential schools and in Indian hospitals. I say that to acknowledge the fact that this has been ongoing for as long as those institutes of genocide have been in place in Canada and is currently ongoing now in 2022. We will never be able to adequately determine the number of women that are being tortured and subjected to forced coerced sterilization, not only from the perspective of a survivor coming forward to disclose this atrocity of genocide on her being but also from those women who have experienced forced coerced sterilization in the past ten years. The medical documentation would not be accessible.
As to myself and what happened to me when I was a 14-year-old girl and pregnant, I’m choosing not to disclose the details because I can confidently say that you can read the book, and the book is Sacred Bundles Unborn. Should anybody require any of the horrific details of the inhumane, brutal torture and incident that I only speak of to myself, you can read the details in the book, Sacred Bundles Unborn, which was published this year. I have to say thank you to all the Fire Keepers and contributors to this book. It was not an easy task. The purpose for me in writing this book was that, first and foremost, it was definitely a healing process, and I certainly felt the necessity to document, by our perspective, our experiences and with our voices before it becomes commodified and yet another survey or study.
I’m 58 years old, and it wasn’t until my 50s that I was ever able to articulate or even speak to the trauma. It was at that point that it was more than obvious to me that I needed to surround myself with supportive, nurturing, compassionate, loving, understanding women and people in my inner circle. I had no idea at that time of the degree that this traumatic event — this genocide on my person — impacted me to the severity that it has, which is ongoing. I struggle with PTSD and suicidal depression.
Let me make it very clear: I am not a victim. I have done absolutely everything humanly possible to nurture my spirit and to address my mental health crises when I was triggered with the memory of what happened to me. To those survivors out there, you are not alone. I stand with you in solidarity, and I acknowledge and thank all of the advocates and sisters in solidarity that stand beside all of us survivors of this act of genocide.
This morning, I was going through my Google News feed, as I often do, with my cup of coffee in the morning. I came across an article: “Canadian astronauts cannot commit crimes in space anymore thanks to new legislation.” I thought, “But forced coerced sterilization in Canada can occur by a surgeon who might feel by his bias and racial perspective that he has the right to discontinue a woman’s right to conceive, therefore ending her DNA, her genealogical line and her lineage,” and he or she — or those practitioners — can do this with impunity. But thank God that Canadian astronauts are not going to be able to commit crimes in space.
I can never effectively articulate, whether through speaking, writing or otherwise, the impact of the scars that I carry in my soul and my spirit and my body. So yes, I am absolutely concerned that this form of genocide is allowed to be continued in Canada, and as we speak, there are women out there who will be subjected to this.
Hiy hiy.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Nicole Rabbit, as an individual: Good afternoon and thank you, everyone, for allowing me to give my testimony.
It may be a little bit hard for me, as I haven’t shared openly like this, but I know that in using my voice — for the ones who can make a difference, that’s where the power is. We need to tell our stories, so please forgive me if I have a hard time here. I did tell my mom the story of what happened a few years ago when I spoke to Alisa. Before that, my partner knew exactly what happened, but shortly after we had our baby, we separated.
I’ll just introduce myself. [Indigenous language spoken]. My Blackfoot name is Eagle Woman. My English name is Nicole Rabbit, and I’m from the Blood Tribe in southern Alberta. I have four children — two sons, two daughters — and three grandsons. I met the father of my children back in 1992. We had a 10-year relationship and four children together. Baby Ali was our last baby together. Our relationship changed after the birth of our fourth child, and we separated shortly after. Today, we have been co-parenting for 20 years, and to this day, we still call our baby Baby Ali; the whole family calls her Baby Ali.
I will give a brief introduction of where I come from and my family. My paternal grandparents had six children. My maternal grandparents had seven children. My parents are both residential school survivors and had four children, me being the youngest. I come from a family of educators. My mom was the first educator in our family and has encouraged her siblings, her three daughters, me included, one grandson, who is my son, and even her mother to pursue their Bachelor of Education. Some went further to receive their masters and PhD. Today, I’m currently caring for my elderly mother full time. Prior to becoming a full-time caregiver, I was a principal for an elementary school for six years and have been a teacher since 2004.
Now I will talk about the day I was coerced to be sterilized. I was beginning my second year at the University of Saskatchewan. My classes started on September 6, 2001, and I was scheduled to have my baby September 11, 2001. At this time, a fellow student was taking notes for me and sending me my assignments because I didn’t want to fall behind in my studies.
I was scheduled for a C-section on September 11, 2001, at the Royal University Hospital in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. I was very anxious getting ready for the birth of my baby. It was early morning when we arrived at the hospital, and I was taken into a room to check my vitals and given a gown. Then I was told to wait in the waiting room with my family. I sat in the waiting room with my partner, my mom and my uncle. As I waited to be called into the operating room, it was at this time that my uncle brought my attention to the television. I asked what movie was playing, and he informed me that it was the news and that a plane had just hit the World Trade Center. Minutes later, I was called to go into the operating room. In the operating room, I was given an epidural. Then my hands were strapped down on each side. I was given laughing gas to minimize my anxiety, and a drape was placed in front of me so I wasn’t able to see the doctor perform the C-section.
At this time, my partner and I were excited and anxiously waiting for our child. We never asked about the sex of any of our children, as the reveal of our baby was part of the whole beautiful experience of welcoming a new addition to our family. The delivery was normal and we welcomed our daughter baby Ali. My partner and I were so happy. They took my baby, and then they went and they cleaned her up and did the necessary things like weigh her and stuff.
It was then that I saw the doctors and nurses leave the room. I still couldn’t see anyone on the other side of the drape. I just knew my partner and I were left in the room, and I was still fully exposed and open. Some nurses and doctors returned. I could hear them talking. My partner, who was sitting on my left side by my head, told me that the delivery team were huddled at my feet.
A nurse then approached me on my right-hand side and said really loud that I couldn’t hold another baby, and it was best that they tie my tubes. I was confused and I looked towards my partner. The nurse then turned to my partner, and she said, “She can’t hold another child. It’s in her best interest to have this procedure done.” My partner reiterated what the nurse had said, so I asked if it was reversible. She said yes.
I had no time to think, and I couldn’t think clearly. The nurse informed me that I needed to decide. I was coerced into deciding, still being fully exposed, my abdomen still open from the C-section, my arms still tied down and numb. I felt pressured to say yes. Moments later, I could smell something burning and thought, “Did they just burn my tubes?” Then the doctor proceeded to close me up. I trusted the medical team but knew something wasn’t right when I smelled the burning flesh. These were strangers who I had no previous encounters with who insisted I tie my tubes. The medical team took advantage of me in a vulnerable state.
Hours after the delivery of baby Ali, I was having severe abdominal pains. The best way I can describe the pain is someone putting a torch to one side of my stomach. This pain came on quickly and lasted for five minutes, and then it would move to the other side. I have never felt this kind of pain before and was given Tylenol 3 to manage it.
My longest stay in the hospital was with baby Ali, my last child, so as my stay in the hospital was longer than I expected and I already started classes, I scheduled baby Ali’s feedings at the hospital to make sure that I could make my classes, and I had a friend pick me up. The university was just east of the hospital, two minutes away. Three years later, I received my bachelor of education and was valedictorian for my graduating class in 2004.
No one asked me what I wanted. No one explained to me why I apparently needed this done, and I didn’t sign any forms. I still have no real idea what the options were and why they said it was best for them to sterilize me. I know now that the sterilization can’t be reversed.
Like I mentioned earlier, the relationship between my partner and I ended shortly after baby Ali was born. I was 28 years old when my womanhood was taken away by the hands of the doctors at the Royal University Hospital in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. My human rights were violated. My identity as a woman was taken away. I never decided I was done having children, yet in a vulnerable state I was pressured into having my tubes tied, or burned. I’m not even sure how they did it because they never bothered to give me any information about the procedure.
How is this consent — tied down, with an epidural, with my stomach wide open on the operating table? How could the hospital let this happen? How could the government let this happen? And why are none of the people who are responsible for what happened to me and what happened to the women you’ve heard from and will hear from not held accountable?
Moving forward, it wasn’t until I confided in my mother what happened to me that I found out the same thing had happened to her after she delivered me in 1973 at the hospital in Fort Macleod, Alberta. She always said, “I wanted more children,” and today at 76 she says she always wanted a big family, which she will never have. She mentions how this happened to other women on the Blood Tribe reserve. Some women only had one child and were coerced into tying their tubes. These women she speaks of turned to alcohol and pills to deal with their mental health and depression. My mother also turned to pills, but thankfully she got away from that. She talks to me about how down she felt and how hard it was to be a mom and a wife after her ability to have children was stolen from her. My parents have separated as well.
And then just going further, this has also happened to my mother-in-law, my partner’s mother. She had two children and was told she would die if she had another child. This is sad, as my children have only one uncle on their father’s side of the family, and, as First Nations people, we are a communal people. Our family take care of each other. What happened limited the number of family to take care of our family, especially our elderly. There are no words to describe what my family and I have lost because of forced sterilization.
I want to thank you for listening to me, and I’m sorry that I got so emotional. It was just that I haven’t really told my story except to Alisa and my children, my mom, and I just informed my dad a couple weeks ago, so it’s very trying. I appreciate allowing me to give my testimony, and I thank everybody for sharing. It’s very traumatizing. I know some are further along than I am in their healing, but I’m working on my healing now. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Nicole, for sharing your story, and there’s nothing wrong with getting emotional. I think most of us sitting here are getting emotional listening to the stories. I thank you for your courage.
Witness B, Registered Nurse, as an individual: Good evening. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts with you today.
As a registered health care professional, I know what informed consent looks like. It is due diligence whereby the physician ensures each patient is made fully aware of the risks, benefits and purpose of the intended procedure. In the case of female sterilization in Canada, the nursing textbooks state that appropriate counselling and subsequent signing of the legal document must occur 30 days before the procedure. The College of Physicians and Surgeons also urge their members to document the discussions regarding this process. Most importantly, all literature regarding informed consent clearly outlines that capacity is a required element. Unfortunately, at the time of my sterilization, none of these fundamental aspects were present. One and a half years ago, I had the opportunity to peruse hospital documentation related to that day, and I am horrified.
In August 2004, I had a spontaneous vaginal delivery, and I recall being asked if I wanted to have my tubes tied due to a cancellation in the surgeon’s schedule. It is important to note that at that time I was not a health care professional and did not know anything about the informed consent process. It is even more important to note that the document states I was in labour for two days prior to my presentation to the hospital, as it is well recognized how sleep deprivation creates incapacity and that life-changing decisions should not be made whilst in that state.
Paired with blood loss, pain, exhaustion and a lack of family presence, I find it unethical that I was even asked to make a choice about a procedure I did not know was permanent. Yet, within two hours of giving birth, I was in the operating theatre getting sterilized.
The trajectory of my life changed that day, and I experienced negative outcomes including, one, months of chronic pelvic pain, which I can now reasonably attribute to the specific procedure I underwent called bilateral partial salpingectomy; two, the breakdown of my marriage because of tension surrounding my inability to give him a biological child; and three, regret due to having wanted another child several years later.
Ultimately, I believe in Dr. James Reason’s Swiss cheese model of system failure. The harm I experienced requires that major safeguards be implemented to ensure that no other woman experiences this injustice again. Accountability is imperative. There should not be the chance for variability to exist in terms of how each physician interprets the process of informed consent.
As a registered health care professional, I firmly believe that every patient deserves autonomy, which includes the ability to be an active participant in choices that pertain to their bodies. Informed consent is more than a legal document; it is a process with an ethical basis.
Thank you for your time.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We’ll now turn to the senators for questions, starting with Senator Boyer.
Senator Boyer: I want to thank Morningstar, Witness B and Nicole for your testimony today. By your coming forward, it frees other women who are listening. It will allow them to come forward too. One day this will be stopped.
I want to pick up on something Nicole had mentioned about the generations that have been affected — not just affected, but sterilized — your mother, your aunties and your in-laws. How widespread has this been in each of your communities? Nicole, are there others in your community who have been sterilized? How far back does this go, and is it still happening?
Ms. Rabbit: My mother speaks of a lot of families on the Blood Tribe reserve and she mentions names. I won’t mention names. She says how they were forced to have their tubes tied. Basically, after one or two children, there was a family breakdown. I know of a whole family who turned towards pills.
These women had to deal with intergenerational trauma in terms of their mental health and depression. Nobody asked if they were okay. For the children they did have, their mother was on pills, and their children and grandchildren were affected. Some turned to alcohol and some developed depression.
This also happened to my mom when she had me in 1973. I know it hurts her now when she talks about it. I didn’t know this until I brought her with me to see Alisa. That’s when she told me that this happened to her. Had I not brought her with me to my meeting as a support, I wouldn’t know that this happened to her.
With regard to residential school, I never knew anything about residential school until I was in university. That’s when I started asking questions and started hearing the stories. This is something that people don’t talk about. People need to be aware of this, just like the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls, the residential school survivors and the children that didn’t come home. This is one of those things that needs to be discussed. People need to know what happened and what continues to happen to us.
I hope I answered your question.
Senator Boyer: Thank you, Nicole.
I’m wondering about Witness B and Morningstar. How widespread has this been in your communities?
Ms. Mercredi: I can honestly say that when I brought this to the attention of Chief Allan Adam of Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation — I am from Treaty 8 territory — he wasn’t able to respond to me until he felt he had enough time to give it some thought. He later contacted me and was quite shaken up — frankly, in a bit of shock — because he was able to reflect on many members in our community who were unable to have children. It seems that with this generation it’s the health care system — period, point-blank — in 2022. Previously, it was also Charles Camsell Hospital in Alberta. Prior to that, it was experimentation on children in residential schools. Suffice to say there are many community members he is aware of who were unable to have children. Of course, he didn’t provide any names, nor should he have.
To sum it up, within my community, to my knowledge, there are women and men — because it wasn’t just women — specifically women, though, Indigenous and Métis, within my community. I have to make reference to the Inuit, as well as women of colour. Specifically to my community, though, definitely there were Indigenous Métis women who were unable to have children. I reiterate that my aunt, who was in the Charles Camsell Hospital, was unable to have children, and my uncle was unable to have children. Both were in Charles Camsell Hospital.
Witness B: I’m not aware of many women who have been forcibly sterilized. What I can say is that when this has come to my attention while working up north, I’ve found that there are a lot of women who are having their tubes tied without knowing that it’s permanent. I’ve been making a concerted effort to educate women about their reproductive rights. It’s awful that these women have no idea. It’s happening today, and we need to figure out actual solutions.
Ms. Rabbit: Just to add, for my mother, we don’t know if her tubes were tied, but I’m pretty sure she was given a hysterectomy at that time. That really affected her and affected her mental health after that.
For the First Nations, when this issue was brought up, I was thinking that they were targeting First Nations women or Aboriginal women just in Saskatchewan, but it wasn’t until I discussed it with my mom to find out that it was happening in our First Nation, on the Blood Tribe Reserve in the local hospitals and Fort Macleod.
Senator Francis: As a First Nation man and leader, I want to thank you for your strength and courage. There is simply no excuses for what happened to you and is continuing to happen to others.
I asked this question previously to the witnesses that appeared. I want to invite you now to comment too. What role did racism play in your cases?
Ms. Rabbit: Just going back to what I said before, I thought it was just happening to First Nations women in Saskatchewan because Saskatchewan has a lot of First Nations reserves around Saskatoon, not knowing that it actually happened back home in Alberta. So, yes, we were basically targeted.
Ms. Mercredi: Absolutely, racism without a doubt. Systemic racism is alive and well in 2022.
I know that in some provinces in Canada it is said that birth alerts are no longer permitted but, in fact, they are continuing. When an Indigenous woman goes to a hospital for health care while she is pregnant to deliver her baby, the racial profiling of her may very well lead to her death. The racial profiling of her systemically and individually by bias stereotypes and racism will potentially also lead to — well, it definitely will — forced coerced sterilization. It’s common knowledge in Indian country and throughout Canada that the racial profiling of Indigenous women, certainly within the health care systems, in many cases — and it continues to be the case — will lead to our death.
I know this is off the topic, but I just want to say that, yes, racism is literally within the policies within Canada systemically, so not only on a personal level can I attest to that, it’s literally in writing. So, yes, racism is undoubtedly a key factor in forced coerced sterilization, in the demise and the inhumane treatment of Indigenous, Métis, Inuit women, and women of colour, but specifically as we refer to Indigenous women, absolutely. By virtue of me being a visibly Indigenous woman, when I step out the door, I am at risk. I’m not being dramatic. So, yes, racism definitely plays a role in this.
Witness B: My circumstances are slightly different because I am not visibly Indigenous. I do look Caucasian. But there is a simple matter that we in Saskatchewan have a letter R on our health cards, so right away it identifies the person as a registered treaty Indian, so I do believe racism played a big part of my not being informed properly and ultimately being sterilized.
Thank you.
Senator Gerba: Thank you, witnesses, for being here.
[Translation]
I am flabbergasted to hear that this is happening in Canada. I want to thank our witnesses for having the courage to come tell us about their lives. That’s admirable.
From a cultural point of view, I know that this is difficult. Although I have been living in Canada for 36 years, as an African, I still have this cultural logic where it is difficult to discuss topics of a sexual nature. That is why I think it is admirable and courageous for these women to come testify before us.
I would like to put the same question to all the women who have come to talk to us and to testify today. Does keeping everything they have experienced taboo and secret help perpetuate the problem? Wouldn’t it be time for today’s younger generations, who are connected to the Internet, to speak up more to publicly denounce what they are experiencing and what their parents are experiencing? Some witnesses have talked to us about their aunts, their grandmothers. Do you think that communication and awareness raising by those who are going through these situations, instead of keeping it taboo, could be options in 2022? Thank you.
[English]
The Chair: Who would like to answer that question?
Witness B: I will say something. When I first found out about this subject and then realized that I was actually one of the women that had this happen to her, I did speak out on social media when I first read about this. The way that I was attacked made me feel like I couldn’t speak my mind. I was called a liar. I expressed that I was a nurse at that point. When I found out, I had become a nurse and I knew about the informed consent process. I tried to explain that I did not get informed consent. I had people not believe me, just stereotype me as a drug addict or someone who had my children taken away and put into care.
For women, especially Indigenous women and minorities, this is an uphill battle. We need to look more at upstream thinking to come up with solutions. I’ve always believed that education will be needed. We can’t easily change racist attitudes of adults or older adults. We have to worry about and teach and educate younger generations. We need to get to people earlier.
I will answer a question from the first panel about how to slow down the process where people were able to just sterilize women. We need to get funds allocated for education of prenatal mothers on their reproductive rights and money towards presentations that would go to teaching medical and nursing and social worker students. We have to get to people early to be able to create this awareness.
Thank you.
The Chair: Witness B, we know that racism exists. We know that there are racist attitudes. Yet you felt when you spoke about what happened to you that nobody wanted to know about it? Nobody wanted to believe you? Was that your experience?
Witness B: Yes. That was my experience. Especially in the province where I live, racism is rampant. People don’t want to move to Saskatchewan because the racism here is so extreme. We know this, and we see this all the time. We see it in the court system. We see it in the case of Colten Boushie. This is just Saskatchewan.
I wrote what I thought was an eloquent response to try to foster more awareness, saying, no, this is not just women who are suffering the effects of intergenerational trauma, and then I saw the response from regular people. I saw the racism. It’s there. It’s present. I have seen it every day when I was a nurse in urban centres. Now, I have chosen to go and work strictly in First Nation communities because I want to be that advocate. I want to make sure that things like this don’t happen to other Indigenous people.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Gerba: I have a question, maybe for Alisa.
[Translation]
Since talking about it or denouncing it seems to be a problem, are there any cases of people filing complaints? How has that been managed?
[English]
The Chair: Are any of the witnesses able to answer that question? If complaints were lodged, how were they handled?
Ms. Mercredi: This is a really important dialogue, without a doubt. However, until forced/coerced sterilization is criminalized in Canada, I’m not sure what advantage there would be to dialogue.
Certainly, it has been my experience that, and I might add that I have removed myself entirely from social media. Any time that there has been an article for which I provided an interview and the article had gone to print, the violent racist replies and comments were indicative of what seems like a common, consensual right for Canadians, if you will, to have such violent, racist attitudes towards us to the degree that we continue to go missing. MMIW, forced/coerced sterilization — it’s difficult to separate the two.
Specifically to forced/coerced sterilization, I can assure you of a few things. Brochures for cultural sensitivity? That won’t cut it. Ultimately, the end game for me, personally — and I believe I share this sentiment with others — is that it needs to be criminalized in Canada.
It is not safe for me on any venue via multimedia to discuss sterilization. The response is violent. It is beyond racist; it is violent. I feel even more intensely targeted. Consequently, as I said already, I removed myself from all social media that I was on, with the exception of one. Anyway, that’s just my perspective on that matter. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Wells: Again, thank you to our witnesses for the individual strength that you have brought to us in helping us learn and understand the broad circumstance and then your individual circumstances. You have tremendous courage that I don’t think I could ever have.
Ms. Mercredi, you mentioned that you are not a victim, and I accept that, but you are a survivor. There is a spill-on effect. I have heard a couple of times during committee meetings about marriages breaking down, sibling lines ended and the desire to have more children. You weren’t given a choice in that. Marriages and partnerships ended. Communities have felt the effect of this.
Could the witnesses please briefly talk about some of the things that go beyond you, as individuals directly involved in this, to others who have had an obvious negative follow-on effect to this that might not be considered in compensation or in any action that might be taken?
Ms. Mercredi: Thank you for the question, although, pardon me, I don’t quite understand the question.
Senator Wells: I’m asking about the others who are affected by the illegal decisions by medical staff to have coerced and forced sterilizations. Clearly, you were victimized in this process, but what about the marriages and the partnerships that ended because of this? The sibling lines that stopped? The communities that didn’t grow in the way that was planned? What about families who wanted to have more children? Maybe you can talk a little bit about those other negative impacts from this action.
Ms. Mercredi: I’ll try to be very brief. Certainly, I can speak to my own experience and that my marriage ended, and I have never remarried. Although, I have been engaged — I have been engaged — all of my relationships in my adult life ended because of my inability to conceive and the trauma that has haunted me and followed me throughout my life. You have to understand the circumstances of my situation when I was 14 years old. Again, I don’t feel like I want to re-traumatize myself today to speak to the events.
Definitely within my own community and within my family, the communal references, endearments that we have to one another, whether you’re biologically related to one another or not, the elderly in the community, whether they are your auntie or they are your uncle, the relations within our communities are so strong. If it weren’t for the miracle pregnancy I had when I was 16 and for my son, and for the two grandchildren that I have, my lineage would stop. That would have been the end of it. I’m very fortunate in my circumstances that there are seven women in my family, and, well, they have all chosen to have smaller families.
Suffice it to say that the point is that community is everything, absolutely everything. All of our communities are matriarchal. The foundation of who we are is based on matriarchal societies, we aunties, grannies and mothers. It didn’t take long for me to recognize how this form of genocide is insidious and silent and covert and permitted, and the breakdown of families and communities is the result.
I want to say that after what happened to me, I know today that one of the reasons I wasn’t able to remember and I wasn’t able to talk about it until I was in my 50s was because I then went into a catatonic state and had a nervous breakdown. At 15, eight months after the fact — you know, I was still 14 — eight months after the fact, that was the first time that I attempted to take my life, and it wouldn’t be the last throughout my adult life. The impacts that it has had on me and my well-being are profound and indescribable. The impact it has had on me as a woman is indescribable.
Thank you for asking.
Senator Wells: Thank you.
Chair, unless there are other witnesses who want to answer, I am happy to leave it there.
The Chair: Nicole and Witness B, would you like to answer that?
Ms. Rabbit: I am just thinking about the question.
Basically, what I said in my testimony about being coerced to get my tubes tied, that ended me having more children, and I, like my mother, have always wanted a big family. My grandparents on either side, they had six children, seven children, and before that, their parents had lots of children. I grew up with a lot of aunties and uncles, and like Morningstar said, the aunties and uncles step in, and we take care of each other. Basically, that’s what I am doing, but I’m limited to my kids. My siblings have already had their children, and for my nieces and nephews, there were eight of them, and two passed away. They were just like my children. I treat all my nieces and nephews like my kids, and they know that. So what had happened was they limited our supports.
Even now, my parents are elderly. If my mom had had more children, she would have had more grandchildren, more great-grandchildren to step up and help take care of her or my dad. But given the fact that she was only allowed to have four children, and we kind of moved away from home because of everything with the intergenerational trauma of residential school, we were kind of distant.
For myself, I really try to be there for my nieces and nephews as much as I can, and my parents, but it’s not like how I grew up. I grew up with many aunties and uncles, and I have over 40 first cousins. My children only have their cousins from my siblings. Then, like I said, on their dad’s side, it happened to his mom, and she was only allowed to have two children, so that limits my children to just one uncle and his children.
It really affected us, and it’s going to affect us, because we’re trying our best to get through all of this, and this is just one thing. We need to remain strong and resilient because there are so many issues coming out now with the residential schools and everything.
Just going back to the other question, our voices are finally being heard, and that’s where I found the courage to speak up and testify and tell my story so that others can. It’s our voice, and we need to be heard, and something needs to be done. Even starting this meeting off, I was thinking that we should have started with a prayer, and it would have been nice if we could have been face-to-face, because this is kind of different.
I don’t know. I’m getting lost in my thoughts, but that’s what I wanted to say.
Senator Wells: Thank you. It’s very helpful.
I want to thank all the witnesses for moving this forward. Even though you may not realize it today, the work that you have done with us today is one more step, perhaps even a large step, towards seeing the end of this. Thank you.
The Chair: I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone as we conclude today’s meeting.
To all the witnesses, thank you for your courage in sharing your stories. They will assist us when we write the report. We stand in solidarity with you. They were difficult stories for you to tell, but believe me, they were also difficult stories for us to hear, and I think all of us have been touched emotionally this evening. I know I have, so I want to thank you.
Our next meeting on this topic is scheduled for May 9, 2022, when we will continue to hear from survivors.
(The committee adjourned.)