THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON VETERANS AFFAIRS
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, May 4, 2022
The Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs met with videoconference this day at 12 p.m. [ET] to examine and report on issues relating to Veterans Affairs, including services and benefits provided, commemorative activities, and the continuing implementation of the Veterans Well-being Act.
Senator Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu (Deputy Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Welcome to this meeting of the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs of the Senate Standing Committee on National Security and Defence. I am Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu, a senator from Quebec, and deputy chair of the subcommittee. Unfortunately, our chair, Senator Richards, could not be with us today, so I am pleased and honoured to take his place.
With me today are the subcommittee members: Senator Anderson, Senator Deacon and Senator Yussuff.
Today we continue our study into issues relating to Veterans Affairs, including services and benefits provided, commemorative activities and the continuing implementation of the Veterans Well-being Act.
We welcome today the Honourable Lawrence MacAulay, Minister of Veterans Affairs, accompanied by Paul Ledwell, Deputy Minister, and Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, Veterans Affairs Canada.
I would like to acknowledge the presence of some very important people at the committee: our analyst, our clerk and the interpreters. Thank you for your work. I thank the witnesses for joining us by videoconference. I invite you to make your opening remarks, which will be followed by questions from the members of the subcommittee.
[English]
The Honourable Lawrence MacAulay, P.C., M.P., Minister of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Canada: Good morning, and thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Senators, I’m pleased to be here today. It’s been a long time since I had the opportunity to speak to honourable senators, and I can tell you it’s always an honour to visit the upper chamber, whether virtually or in person.
I’d like to begin by acknowledging the tragic death last week of our four military officer cadets at the Royal Military College in Kingston. On behalf of the Government of Canada, I extend my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of those four young adults and the entire RMC community. I also want to thank you for your invitation. I’m looking forward to updating you on what the government is doing to support Canada’s veterans community.
I know that last week Dr. Heber was here to speak to you about the use of psychedelics for treating veterans, VAC’s client population. As we continue to support our veterans with their rehabilitation and transition into post-service life, it’s vital that we always keep looking at what new and emergent treatments are out there. We have some anecdotal evidence, but more research must be done. We have to make sure these treatments have been fully and properly studied and that the full extent of the risks associated with them is well understood by all parties.
I said it before, and I’ll say it again: The Government of Canada is fully committed to the health and well-being of veterans and their families. Mr. Chair, we want anyone who comes to us for assistance to receive proper care and support, as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Some veterans are understandably frustrated with how long it takes to get a decision on a disability benefit application, but we’re taking steps to change that. In fact, it’s my number one priority.
Over the past several years, we have invested hundreds of millions of dollars, hired hundreds more staff, made improvements to the application process and simplified decision making for some medical conditions.
The department also created spike teams to deal with the high demand. These teams were formed from over 350 staff that were hired in 2020 to work on the most common applications. Combined with other improvements to the decision-making process, the department has reduced the backlog by more than 50% since we began our investments.
As of April 29, there were 10,937 applications that were over the service standard. That is down from a high of over 23,000. It is good progress, but we know there’s more work to do to get that number down even further, and we are committed to doing that. That’s why just last month we invested $140 million to extend our staff work hours to reduce the backlog. We’re going to keep investing in our employees so that we can keep getting decisions out to veterans as quickly as possible.
Over the last few years, the department has also increased the number of case managers in order to meet the increased needs of our veterans. As of last November, there were 476 case managers in the department. I personally committed to finding ways for Veterans Affairs Canada to hire more staff if needed.
Mr. Chair, let me turn to another issue that is vitally important to our government, that of veteran homelessness. Every veteran deserves a safe and affordable place to live. One homeless veteran is one too many. We are working closely with Infrastructure Canada and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation on initiatives under the National Housing Strategy. Budget 2022 announced an additional $62.2 million to launch a new veteran homelessness program in partnership with Veterans Affairs Canada and community organizations. This program will provide assistance and rent supplements to veterans experiencing homelessness to help them get back on their feet and will build on the $45 million announced in Budget 2021. Our programs like the Veterans Emergency Fund and the Veteran and Family Well-Being Fund also provide key support to homeless and at-risk veterans.
Examples of what we’re supporting through the Veteran and Family Well-Being Fund include a program in Ottawa to help tackle the issues of social isolation, anxiety and mental health challenges that homeless, shut-in and at-risk veterans face.
In Calgary, a project called the 908 ATCO Village in Calgary helps provide veterans with the support they need to live on their own in the village.
Finally, Mr. Chair, I would like to end with a few words about my recent trip to Europe. Commendation is and always will be a crucial aspect of the Veterans Affairs Canada mandate and my own responsibility as minister. All over the world, Canadians have served and sacrificed in pursuit of global peace and security. Many are laid to rest on or near the ground where they took their final breath. I was honoured over the past few weeks to pay my respects at the war cemeteries and monuments in France, Belgium and The Netherlands. From Vimy to Passchendaele to Holten, I was reminded of the enormous sacrifice Canadians have made in the service of peace around the world, and I was heartened to hear from many locals who still carry the memory of our veterans, and I can assure you that’s so touching.
I also met my French counterpart and other French officials to discuss Canada’s concerns with a proposed condominium development in the area of Juno Beach Centre. We agreed on the importance of Canada and France to honour the sacrifice of Canadian soldiers who fell at Juno Beach in 1944 as they fought to return freedom and democracy to Europe. We also resolved to work together to seek a favourable outcome to the dispute that could negatively impact the operations at Juno Beach Centre and to protect this historic site for France and Canada.
Lastly, as you may have heard, the Duke of Sussex announced at the closing ceremony for the Invictus Games that Vancouver and Whistler would host the 2025 games, which is a big deal for Canada. Like all Canadians, I look forward to watching our team compete on home soil in three years’ time.
Mr. Chair, this sums up many of the latest developments of Veterans Affairs Canada, and I would be more than pleased to answer any of your questions.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, minister.
I will invite my colleagues to ask questions. You have five minutes. We can probably have a second round of questions.
[English]
Senator Anderson: Thank you very much, minister. You had stated there were 476 case managers. Can you tell me what the case load is, and whether it varies from region to region? And in what areas would you have the highest case load?
Mr. MacAulay: I can assure you it varies from region to region, yes, but there’s also no control over the applications that come into the department. The thing is, we have no control over what comes in. We just have to deal with every application that comes to the department and that is what we have to do, and that’s what we have been doing.
Of course, you’re concerned about the delay and the backlog, and rightfully so. As you know, it was at 23,000 and now it’s around 11,000. That’s okay, but it’s not good enough. We’re working to make sure that we lower that figure even more, and with a lot of changes, such as digitizing the files and doing all these things that Veterans Affairs Canada offered itself, it has helped the situation. I think that answers your question.
Senator Anderson: Do you know how many cases there are per case manager? The reason I’m asking is I know that the case loads for case managers have a direct impact on the ability of service they’re able to provide and how effective they are in providing that service. Would you have any numbers for the caseloads?
Mr. MacAulay: My department would have those numbers, and I would be more than pleased to have them answer that question. As I said, we have a lot more case managers and we have a lot more applications too. But I would turn it over to my deputy to give you that exact departmental information. He would have something in that area.
Senator Anderson: Thank you.
Paul Ledwell, Deputy Minister, Veterans Affairs Canada: Thank you, minister, and thank you, senator, for the question.
Presently, there are approximately 15,000 veterans receiving case management services through Veterans Affairs Canada. I think it’s important to underline that no veteran who comes forward who needs case management has to wait for that service. That’s provided to them automatically as they come forward and identified with the need for that support.
Across the country, our case managers are on average supporting about 31 veterans, which is higher than our target. We have a target of 25 veterans per case manager, but we’ve provided additional support to our case managers. We’ve really taken away the administrative burden from our case managers, so they can provide more direct, regular and upfront service to our veterans.
We have also provided additional supports to the case managers so that they have some professional support to draw on to provide support to the veterans. So we’re really trying to drive to more regular and reasonable levels of cases of veterans who are receiving support through case managers.
There is variability across the country. Part of that is based on the demand that exists within a particular region, and part of that is based on our ability to maintain the level of case managers that we need in those regions. In some regions, it’s quite frankly more challenging given labour markets, but it’s something we really try to regularize right across the country to ensure that the support is there for the veteran who is in need of case management, and to ensure that our case managers are able to provide that support reasonably.
Mr. MacAulay: It’s also important to indicate that I think we have hired about 400 case managers since we formed government. They are such a vital part. Your question is certainly important. Case managers are a massive help to people when they apply for benefits, so thank you very much.
Senator Anderson: Thank you.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for being here today. I was very excited by the Invictus Games announcement. Peter Lawless was part of that bid, and it’s so exciting now to bring the games to Western Canada after Toronto a few years ago, so I’m super excited. I welcome my colleagues to try to experience those games. It’s amazing.
I have two questions, if I could. The first concerns some feedback you gave to something a little while ago, and it concerns extremism and White supremacy in our Canadian Armed Forces and subsequently in our veterans community.
Your government recently released a report saying not enough was being done to root out these actors in our armed forces. I have no doubt the vast majority of veterans despise such views, which I think is all the more reason why it’s important to address this if it is an issue, and it seems to be.
Is your department aware of any post-service extremist activity in our veterans community? If so, what steps are being done to make sure that such ideology and the groups that tout it do not become, perhaps, even an attractive option for our vets?
Mr. MacAulay: It’s certainly totally unacceptable. I’ll let the deputy answer that. We’ve made a major investment in these areas, and need to make sure that these are not tolerated at all. I would fully expect they’re not. I know they’re not tolerated in the department, and I’m sure the deputy would like to expand on that, but certainly none of this is tolerated at all.
Mr. Ledwell: No, and I think the same level of attention given throughout Canadian society and across government is given throughout our department as well, senator.
What is also important in this regard is there are a number of recognized and organized veterans’ groups who themselves don’t hold to those views and through a period of peer relationships certainly discourage those views from taking hold within the veteran community. That is very compelling, and very strong, of course. We certainly monitor the situation and ensure that the groups that may be arising are not given any credibility whatsoever from the perspective of Veterans Affairs Canada.
Mr. MacAulay: The peer-to-peer support is so important, because you’re dealing with people who have knowledge of the situation and that helps an individual who is having difficulty, so we put a lot of emphasis on that area, and we’ll continue to do so. It’s very important and a good question.
Senator M. Deacon: Now, with that support and with transitions back home and our veterans returning to Canada, I do have another question.
Last Friday, I had the opportunity to meet with the Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman, and we talked about a lot of different things, but one of the things that he did talk about that made me a little bit more curious was a program started in 2018, called Seamless Canada. It was launched to improve, of course, the services of our CAF members and their families when they move to a different province or territory.
Does Veterans Affairs Canada have any direct or indirect role with this program? And what, if any, assistance exists for veterans’ families who have lived a life of postings and are now trying to settle into life in one place?
Mr. MacAulay: Yes, of course. We have the caregiver program, announced a few years ago, that is so vitally important. I think that puts over $12,000, tax-free, into people who are caring for veterans when they come home. It is so vitally important when a veteran returns home to have a loved one there to be able to take care and provide assistance. That’s one of the programs that I think has been very much appreciated. It has indicated to us, anyhow, that it’s very helpful to veterans that come in, because it’s so difficult. We have transition officers on the Canadian Armed Forces bases too.
What we’re trying to do and what I try to make sure of any time I visit a base is to make sure is that when you enlist in the Canadian Armed Forces, there is a day that you’re going to leave the Canadian Armed Forces and to be prepared for that.
Now, we have a number of programs in place, I won’t go through them all. You know what a lot of them are. But we have transition officers on the Canadian Armed Forces bases trying to make sure that the military men and women are aware of these programs, like the education program and so many other programs that are available.
There are so many people who leave the Canadian Armed Forces, as you understand fully. They have a doctor and everything is provided for them, and then one day they leave. We’re trying to make sure they’re more prepared for that. The doctor situation is still a big issue, but we want to make sure they’re aware of what Veterans Affairs Canada offers.
Quite simply, society needs these people. There are people who are not well who leave the Canadian Armed Forces, but there are a lot of people who are well who leave the Canadian Armed Forces. They are vitally needed in our businesses. As you’re aware, every business in the country is short of people. That’s why I do my best — and the department works hard on the bases — to ensure that members of the Canadian Armed Forces are fully aware of the programs that are there and to make the transition easier. We had job fairs before the pandemic hit and then we had them virtually. I’ve toured a number of them. They are so important.
Senator Anderson: Thank you.
Senator Yussuff: Thank you, minister and deputies, for being here today.
I’ll begin my question around your recent trip to France and the dispute that’s happening at the Juno Beach Centre. This is an ongoing dispute. Clearly, this had coverage in the media, meeting with folks at the centre. You promised to take this up with your counterpart in France.
You just spoke about it, but could you elaborate a bit more in terms of how soon we might see a resolution to this issue of the Juno Beach Centre? We recognize the important role it plays in reminding our friends in France about the importance of Canadians who contributed to their security, but equally for Canadians who are going there to visit loved ones, to ensure that the centre is not going to be threatened in any way. Minister, do we know what time frame we’re working towards to find a resolution to this?
Mr. MacAulay: Senator, it is good to see you. We’ve wrangled in a previous life.
Your question is so important. When we arrived at Juno Beach, it was obvious to see. I had called my counterpart in Paris a few weeks before I went to Juno Beach and made her aware of the situation. When we arrived at Juno Beach, you could see what the development would do. It’s a complicated situation, of course, because it’s on French land, with French businesses and French government.
When we arrived there, all the media — I guess we informed them we were coming; national, regional and local media — were there and there was a lot of activity on TV. I do think that helped, because when governments see this difficulty, they understand. I think it highlighted the issue, if you understand what I mean.
A couple of days later, I met with my counterpart in Paris. I have to say that she was fully aware of the situation. We had a meeting that was not going to be very long and it turned out to be over an hour. She indicated to me that she would be contacting the regional district representatives and the people involved to start to put in place a process for all of them to sit down — the condominium people, Juno Beach and the town.
We’re very hopeful that can be resolved. The issue wasn’t highlighted at first. I’m only speculating, but I would expect that the condominium developer would be keen to see a resolution to this too. It’s a difficult situation. It’s right along the side of Juno Beach, and there’s only one highway down to Juno Beach.
It was amazing when we had a meeting there. Juno Beach was full of young French Canadians. It was truly impressive to see, senator.
As you know, I’ve been around Veterans Affairs Canada in my previous life, and I know that the Europeans have such respect for what Canadians did to restore peace and democracy. It’s obvious that Juno Beach has been well used.
From the meeting with my counterpart, I understand there’s a process in place concerning Juno Beach, but it’s not our business to be involved in that. I think it will be left to them to come up with a resolution.
This became a pretty hot issue when we got there. I’m very pleased, because everybody involved in Veterans Affairs Canada is fully aware of what Juno Beach means. All levels of government in France, right to the top, are concerned about this. Again, I can’t say for sure because it’s under French law, but it looks like the process has been highlighted. I’m sure Canadian veterans right across this country would be pleased about that. I know that you and the members of this committee are fully aware of the value of this, understand the costs of war and can see what the centre provides for young people.
It’s somewhat difficult to understand, but when you see the setup and the entrance to Juno Beach, it’s obvious that if you have buses and a lot of traffic, it could be a dangerous situation. It could mean that not many people will go to Juno Beach. I would say all of that helped the situation and that we hit it at the right time. Thank you, senator.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you, minister. For the second round of questions, I invite the minister to give shorter answers so that senators can ask more questions.
I have two questions for you. You spoke briefly about the issue of homelessness, veterans who are homeless. According to our data, it is estimated that 3,000 veterans are homeless in Canada, which is huge. In last year’s budget, the government promised $45 million over two years. Now it is $62 million. Over what period of time will this $62 million be invested? In addition, a recent answer on the Senate Order Paper suggested that Infrastructure Canada and your department are still working on the design of the program to help veterans. It is not known how many veterans will be affected by the money you have announced. When will this program be operational, and how many veterans will be affected by this program?
[English]
Mr. MacAulay: Thank you very much, senator. It’s an excellent question. As you noted, you understand that the issue of homelessness among veterans is complex. We think we have a number, but there are veterans who don’t wish to talk to Veterans Affairs Canada and there are people who don’t want to be involved in any part of this whatsoever. We’re doing the best we can to ensure we identify the veterans.
We have other programs, but there is a fund in place, two budgets of just over $100 million, which will help to put a program in place. We can also access Minister Hussen’s housing budget. We need to get the programs in place and ensure we have veterans who want these homes.
We also have the rent subsidy, which veterans seem to want more. I don’t want to go on too long, but I want to tell you that the rent subsidy seems to be more of a desire for veterans.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Minister, I remind you again of my directive, which was to try to give shorter answers; otherwise we will not have time to be more specific. My question in relation to the veterans was simple. When will the program you’re talking about be operational, and how many veterans will be affected by it?
[English]
Mr. MacAulay: What we hope is every veteran would be affected in the program. It will be available for every veteran who needs a home. What we want to do is make sure that every veteran — one veteran without a home is unacceptable. That’s what this government feels and that’s what we are going to deal with. We have this program and, as I said, we have a number of other programs — the rent subsidy program, the housing program plus the emergency program — that all would be put together. It’s important to know that too.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Minister, I repeat my question: When will the program be offered to veterans? I understand that this program is going to be geared towards a certain number of people, but the veterans, who know that you are here today, are asking the following question: When will the program be available to them?
[English]
Mr. MacAulay: Senator, I can’t give you an exact date, but I can tell you it’s an initiative of the government. We have indicated that quite clearly. But if you have a veteran who is in dire straits, make sure that you are fully aware of the emergency program. Contact the department. We’re there to help in any emergency program.
We have a lot of programs in place and we want to make sure that you know and everybody else knows that if it is a dire situation, we are there to deal with it. The housing situation — we put a program in place in order to provide homes for veterans. That’s what we’re going to do. But it is not that there wasn’t anything available before this happened. There are programs in place, and people will contact you, senators, to find out, and all you have to do is contact Veterans Affairs Canada and they have this very valuable emergency program.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you, minister. I remind you that there are 3,000 veterans who are homeless and who need help.
[English]
Senator Anderson: My question is around the backlog that remains, the 10,937 veterans. Do you have a timeline when the backlog will be addressed? In the interim, while they are waiting for the financial or medical support, are there any supports or services or reassurances to these veterans while they are awaiting the process?
Mr. MacAulay: Thank you very much. Yes, we just announced $140 million for a mental health program that’s in place. If you apply for that as a veteran, funds are available immediately to make sure that is dealt with.
As far as the backlog is concerned, I gave you the figures on that, and I don’t want to talk too long. The fact is the backlog was at 23,000. It is about 11,000 now. We’re working to make sure we continue to reduce it, but it is awfully important that senators and people in places everywhere are fully aware that there are other programs within the Department of Veterans Affairs Canada to deal with emergencies. Yes, we are putting the housing program in place — but no, the disability is what you’re on. I’m sorry. Yes, we are going to continue to work and make sure. That’s why we hired the 400 case workers and to make sure that we have the people in place to deal with this.
You can’t immediately eliminate the backlog by any means, but what you do is to make sure you have the staff in place, make the changes within the department that it is handled efficiently, which we are doing and will continue to do. Also, as you know, we are hiring more people to make sure that we deal with the backlog.
I can’t give you a date as to when things will happen because, number one, we have no control over what comes in the door of Veterans Affairs Canada. Sometimes it is a little reduction. Sometimes it is a big increase in applications. We are working very hard and have made progress but we need to make more.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for your comments. We all know that the two and a half years that have just passed related to the pandemic have had an impact in many ways across all sectors. I am wondering about the disruptions brought in the area of employment.
Does your department have any data about veterans retiring from the service over the course of the pandemic facing additional challenges or special difficulty in obtaining employment? I am wondering if there is any data on that and what supports or measures are taken to assist them.
Mr. MacAulay: Are you talking about veterans that leave the Canadian Armed Forces?
Senator M. Deacon: Yes.
Mr. MacAulay: Yes, there are a number of programs in place. It is vitally important that you know what these programs are. Like the example I mentioned, the education program, but we have many other programs to make sure that —
Senator M. Deacon: Minister, thank you. I recognize there are a number of programs. Specific to this issue related to the pandemic, do you have a sense of the data, of the number of veterans that have really struggled to try to make that transition to employment? You may not have it. I’m just wondering if you do.
Mr. MacAulay: I don’t have it. The department might have it but I would turn to Mr. Ledwell. I don’t think we would have stats exactly on that.
Mr. Ledwell: Thank you, senator, for the intention on this issue, because it is important and the minister has really underlined that it is significant for our department.
The actual data shows that the percentage of veterans who are unemployed is actually quite low, but that may be an under-reporting in that some may not be coming forward identifying themselves as veterans and identifying themselves as unemployed. We will get more data, I should say, senator, when Statistics Canada releases census data tracking for the first time those who have served in the military. That will be coming out this summer, and we will be paying attention to that data for a number of reasons, including for employment.
There are all sorts of supports that are provided to guide those who have served into appropriate employment so that they are not just employed, but they are employed in an area that is actually worthwhile to them, is related to their service and to their experience, their skills and their talent. We do a lot of that as well. We recently, for example, had a job fair where we had 45 employers across the country and over 1,000 veterans who engaged in that. So there is interest. We are seeking to track that and we will continue to track that.
Senator M. Deacon: That’s wonderful. Thank you.
Mr. MacAulay: Chair, I would like to indicate that the veterans employment strategy was indicated in my mandate letter and that’s something that we are certainly focused on. Because we all understand businesses have a need for employees and veterans need a place to work when they come out of the armed forces. That’s what we’re working on, to make sure that these programs coincide. That’s why veterans’ organizations are so important. You’ll be talking to veterans’ organizations. That’s the information we need in order to make sure we have the proper processes and programs in place in order to make sure that these veterans land in the spot where they want to be and where they are vitally needed. Thank you.
Senator Yussuff: Minister, let me come back to the Juno Beach Centre. Obviously, we’re hoping your meeting will lead to a resolution. Can the department keep our committee abreast of the developments if a resolution is reached? Of course, you could do that by simply corresponding through our chair who will share that information with us on the committee. I would appreciate that very much, to know that we are staying on top of this and hopefully we will get a resolution.
I do have another question, obviously, in response to your earlier comments regarding veteran homelessness. You do indicate that a number of veterans obviously prefer the rent subsidy. Can you indicate to us how many veterans are currently accessing the rent subsidy from the department?
Mr. MacAulay: Well, the department might have that figure but it is a program that is in place. It is a program that has been sought by veterans’ organizations, the people we consulted with. Homes are important, but it seemed to be that the rent subsidy program was the most vital part of the request from veterans’ groups.
I don’t know if the department would have those figures or not, but I will turn it over to the deputy. I doubt if we have the figures.
Mr. Ledwell: We don’t have updated figures, senator, but we will get those for you. The intention of the program that will unfold is that rent supplements and subsidies will be a key feature of that in support of the veterans.
To the earlier points, there have been a number of different data points trying to ascertain the number of veterans who are homeless. We don’t have a definitive figure. As the minister has indicated, we want to ensure that any veteran who needs support for housing receives that support and that no veteran is homeless. That’s the key objective that we hold.
Mr. MacAulay: It is important to note that we also talked about the countries. The U.S. put this program in place, and it reduced it significantly, to approximately 50% on their figures.
It is obvious that the rent supplement program is vitally important, but the housing program is also important. We will work hard to put that together in an appropriate manner. Thank you.
Senator Yussuff: Minister, with regard to the homelessness issue and with the number of resources that have been made available in the current budget, is the department talking with other arms of government? The biggest challenge in an urban environment is actually having land to build housing, especially for veterans who live in major cities.
If the federal government can make land available, it would make it easier to build housing for veterans. I hope there is some collaboration going on with other departments on how to make federal government land available for the building of housing for veterans. Perhaps this is something that the department is thinking about given the number of resources it has allocated in the upcoming budget.
Mr. MacAulay: Thank you very much, senator. Yes, it is vitally important that we work with other departments. Land can sometimes be a big issue.
As you are fully aware, veterans like to live in the communities they are in. They have served us well, and we have to make sure we do what is right for them. Of course, that’s what we work to do to make sure these programs are put in place in order to let them live where they would like to live.
There are many programs such as the tiny houses in Calgary. I visited that, and it was heartwarming to see, senator. I’m not sure of the number, but there are 15 or so. There were people who just moved in, and there was a couple who were leaving the tiny home and going into their own home.
That’s what you call progress. That’s the private sector working with government and other sectors of the business community in order to make sure that the veterans have what they need. That was heartwarming.
That’s a success story. It is not resolved, but these people were down and out and had great difficulty, and they were moving into their own home, with a job. That’s what we want to see. We will work the best way we know to make sure that continues to happen.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Minister, I have a few questions for you before I turn the floor over to my colleagues.
Last week we had the Chief of Psychiatry, Dr. Heber, and I asked her two questions. I asked her if she was aware that there are hundreds of veterans who have been in the military in theatres of operation — whether it’s Europe, the Middle East, or even Afghanistan — who need psychiatric or psychological support. I asked her how long veterans have to wait for services of this nature, and she had no answer. I also asked her if Veterans Affairs Canada rates the level of satisfaction with the services that are provided to veterans. Again, she didn’t have an answer for us, which is quite surprising.
Is there any data on the time it takes for people suffering from post-traumatic shock to receive services?
Are there regular evaluations that are done with veterans on their satisfaction with the services provided by the department?
[English]
Mr. MacAulay: I can assure you that there are evaluations, senator. As you know, with this program for mental health, they immediately started receiving funds.
I will turn it over to the department if they have any statistics on that. I don’t know.
[Translation]
Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch, Veterans Affairs Canada: Thank you for the question, senator.
I can assure you, Mr. Chair, that we have just introduced a new mental health program that, as the minister mentioned, allows people to access the mental health process immediately when they apply for a disability with our department. As of April 1, veterans who apply to us with a mental health problem can access treatment immediately. This can be medication or meetings with psychiatrists or other specialists. In addition, there is a system of clinics across the country, including 11 clinics with satellites, that provide mental health treatment services. People can go there, and the services are dedicated to veterans and RCMP veterans so they can get mental health support.
The Deputy Chair: If you have any data on veteran satisfaction, can you send it to the committee?
Mr. Harris: Certainly. We do a client survey every two years or so, and we can give you the results that we have.
The Deputy Chair: Minister, in 2015, your government said that no more money would be allowed to sit in drawers. In 2018, a motion supported by Parliament ensured that money that was not spent could be kept for the following year.
In the 2021 public accounts, we see $634 million that was not spent in Veterans Affairs. When we look at all these important issues in terms of backlogs, very long delays and homelessness, how can we end up not spending $634 million? Is this money not well managed, basically?
[English]
Mr. MacAulay: Thank you very much, senator. I think you are fully aware that the money that you are speaking of is for benefits. We have to make sure that the money is always there for benefits, and it always is. There is no money left unspent. The money is put back in the program in the next year to make sure that the veterans have the dollars for the services that they need and are approved for.
We have had investments of over $340 million that has allowed hundreds of new staff come to Veterans Affairs Canada. We have a lot of new programs in place. In fact, senator, you are aware that in our term as government, we have invested over $11 billion in Veterans Affairs Canada. It is much needed, I will add, but the fact is that there is no money that goes unused. You always have to have a working capital base to make sure that you have the dollars in place to pay for the veterans’ programs. We have, and governments always have and will continue to have.
Senator Yussuff: Minister, as you know, there is an important program that building trades unions have set up called Helmets to Hardhats to try to bridge veterans leaving the Canadian Armed Forces and transitioning them back into the private sector and to make sure they have jobs in the building trades. This has been a very important program. There was some seed money initially in order to help set up and coordinate the efforts of the building trades in that effort.
Is the department still collaborating with that program, and more important, does the department offer any support to the folks in the building trades that continue to run that program? Because I see it is of great benefit to veterans who are coming back who want to work in the private sector but also in the construction sector.
As you know, right now, there is a tremendous worker shortage that can’t be met because we don’t have enough workers in the sector. Many of the veterans coming back have the skills to move right into those sectors. Is there anything you can offer in regard to how the department has been working with the Helmets to Hardhats program?
Mr. MacAulay: Senator, I’m not surprised at your questions, and I appreciate your questions.
Of course, we have many programs, but it is pretty unique. I have dealt with Helmets to Hardhats since I became Minister of Veterans Affairs. I have a great appreciation for them and know them very well. In fact, tomorrow night I am a guest speaker at their dinner in Toronto, and I think there will be 750 people there. You couldn’t have asked the question in a more timely manner.
Are they important? Yes. Do we support them? Yes. What do they do? I don’t have to tell you what they do. They line up people for the occupations that you are so interested in, and I can tell you they do a great job of that. But they are not the only organization that works to help veterans. Helmets to Hardhats works to place people in the construction industry, and they’ve done a great job of that. We will continue to support them in their efforts. It’s kind of unique that I will be with them tomorrow night, but I see them quite often, talk to them, know them and appreciate what they do. They are not the only ones, by any means, but it is organizations like this one that help us so much with veterans who are returning from military service.
Thank you so much for the question.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Since my colleagues have no further questions, I would like to come back to the $634 million that has not been spent. I am trying to understand why the funds were not allocated in the form of services or benefits. How is it that your department has not been able to spend this money, given the issues that have been going on for years? I’m trying to understand.
[English]
Mr. MacAulay: Thank you very much, senator. I certainly appreciate your question. I think I have answered it before, but the fact is we always have to have enough money in place to make sure the funding is right at hand for all the programs that veterans are approved for. I would say no government ever in the last 50 years hasn’t returned dollars back or put it in place for next year’s funding.
That’s exactly how it has worked and will continue to work, because we have to be sure that we have the money there to pay for the benefits that the veterans so much deserve. Of course, we have to make sure that we deal with the backlog and make sure that the veterans who are not receiving the funding do that, too. But we have an annual budget of over $2 billion, and it is just so important that we have this funding in place, and that is exactly the answer to that question.
I thank you.
[Translation]
The Deputy Chair: Thank you very much, minister.
That concludes our meeting today. First of all, I would like to thank you, gentlemen. We very much appreciated your availability and the answers you provided.
Ladies and gentlemen, the next meeting will take place on Wednesday, May 11, at the usual time. Citizens are welcome to attend next week’s meeting. We wish you all a very good week. Thank you very much.
(The meeting is adjourned.)