Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
National Finance
Issue 1 - Evidence - December 10, 2015
OTTAWA, Thursday, December 10, 2015
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met this day, at 12:01 p.m., to continue its study of Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2016.
Senator Joseph A. Day (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, this afternoon, we are continuing our study of Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2016.
[English]
This committee considered the Main Estimates and the Supplementary Estimates (A) earlier in the year, before the election, and members have been reconvened this week in order to provide the Senate's input and understanding of the Supplementary Estimates (B).
Yesterday, we heard from Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat and from the Parliamentary Protective Service.
We have two panels today, honourable colleagues. For our first panel, we'll hear from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. We expect that will take approximately one hour, from 12:00 until 1:00.
I'm pleased to welcome Tony Matson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer; and Sidney Frank, Director General, Syrian Refugees Project. Certainly your hands have been full for the last while and will continue to be, I expect. We also welcome Mike MacDonald, Director General, Operational Management and Coordination. We're also pleased to have — and we thank you for coming to the table — Daniel Mills, Director General, Financial Management.
I understand, Mr. Matson, you have a few opening remarks, and then we'll go into an exchange.
Tony Matson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: Yes, I do. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It is my pleasure to speak to the members of the Senate's Finance Committee about the government's plan to welcome 25,000 Syrian refugees by early next year. I'm also happy to be here today with my two colleagues, Mike McDonald, Director General, Operational Management and Coordination; and Sidney Frank, Director General, Syria Refugee Project. We also have with us Daniel Mills, Director General, Financial Management.
[Translation]
I think it is notable that we no longer have a Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Instead, we have the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. In adding that one word — refugees — the Prime Minister sent a message that refugees make a strong contribution to our country. He signalled that refugees are always welcome in Canada.
[English]
As you are aware, the conflict in Syria has created one of the worst humanitarian crises the world has faced in recent years. Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada's 2015-16 Supplementary Estimates (B) only include funding to implement the government's response to the Syrian refugee crisis. These estimates include $178 million in funding for operating expenditures. This funding will be for the identification and selection of refugees with the United Nations Refugee Agency and the Government of Turkey; all processing of applications abroad, including security and health medical examinations; and transportation to Canada, as well as logistic, policy, system and corporate activities to support this initiative.
There is also $99.9 million in funding for grants and contributions. This funding will be used as income support for newcomers to cover such items such as food, clothing and shelter. Funding will also be provided to non-government organizations for resettlement assistance needs, including household goods, linen and furniture. In addition, funding will be used to help refugees in areas such as language training, orientation to life in Canada and counselling.
As well, $2.3 million in statutory adjustments for contributions to employee benefit plans for staff directly involved in achieving the Syrian refugee commitment.
All told, these items represent an increase of $280.2 million. As a result, IRCC's authorities to date for 2015-16 show an overall increase from $1.487 billion to $1.767 billion.
[Translation]
This funding is a response by the Canadian government to the Syrian refugee crisis and was made official in the announcement by the Minister of IRCC and his colleagues on November 24. It will see the resettlement in Canada of 10,000 government-assisted and privately sponsored Syrian refugees with a target of the end of December 2015. An additional 15,000 refugees will be resettled in Canada by the end of February 2016.
[English]
The department's vote structure includes operating expenditures in vote 1 and grants and contributions in vote 5. These two votes will be used to manage the funds received for this initiative.
Canadians have responded to the government's plan with a groundswell of support. They have expressed a desire to help in any way they can.
Since the announced details of our plans, the minister has met with various levels of government and stakeholders and has been encouraged by the enthusiasm and support on the part of many people. The minister has had the opportunity to go through all five phases of the plan with the provinces and territories, with municipalities and with other partners and stakeholders. A great deal of work is taking place to prepare for all phases.
Syrian refugees will be resettled to Canada under two programs: government-assisted refugees and privately sponsored refugees.
[Translation]
The government is working with the United Nations High Commissioner of Refugees, or UNHCR, to identify people in Jordan and Lebanon, and is working on establishing a similar process with the Government of Turkey, where refugees are registered by the state and not the UNHCR. These individuals will come to Canada as government- assisted refugees.
[English]
Privately sponsored refugees are those identified by a sponsorship group, such as a sponsorship agreement holder, a group of five or a community sponsor. Several thousand applications are already in process across both programs.
In order to maximize success in resettlement while minimizing security risks, the government has asked the UNHCR to prioritize vulnerable refugees, such as complete families, women at risk and persons identified as vulnerable due to membership in the lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender community.
Canada has already set up an expanded temporary office in Beirut to achieve this commitment. A temporary office opened in Amman, and visa capacity will also be enhanced in Turkey once referrals are received. These offices are staffed by experienced immigration officers, as well as other government officials and security partners.
Identity will be verified throughout the process. Visa officers will take the time to screen refugees carefully before accepting them for resettlement to Canada. Once the prospective refugees have undergone screening, those selected will receive permanent resident visas.
The government will then prepare to bring them to Canada. It will transport refugees using chartered aircraft and military planes. The International Organization for Migration, a humanitarian agency that specializes in coordinating travel of large groups, will manage the operation. Upon arrival, refugees will be processed for admission. This will include final verification of identity.
Refugees who come here sponsored by private citizens will continue directly to their final destination community where their sponsors will welcome them. Most government-assisted refugees will continue to their new home communities across Canada after being admitted by Border Services officials. Some government-assisted refugees whose final destinations have not yet been determined will be provided with temporary accommodation while work to finalize matching is complete.
The government expects these stays to be very short. Temporary accommodation will give federal officials more time to work with provinces, territories and settlement service providers to determine which communities will become the refugees' new homes.
[Translation]
I hope these remarks have given you a better understanding of the government's plan that is already moving forward. My colleagues and I welcome any questions you have.
[English]
The Chair: Mr. Matson, thank you for your comments. I'm sure there'll be a number of questions by honourable senators.
Senator Wallace: Thank you, Mr. Matson.
In your comments, you've broken the financial request into two sections, the first being $178 million for the identification and selection of refugees. That identification and selection is occurring with the UN and with the Government of Turkey. Is the Government of Jordan involved in that process that would concern the $178 million?
Mr. Matson: My understanding is absolutely, but I should probably turn this question over to Mr. Frank.
Sidney Frank, Director General, Syria Refugee Project, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: Senator Wallace, in terms of the identification of refugees, the UNHCR provides that service for us, and the Government of Jordan wouldn't be involved. The Government of Lebanon would not be involved either.
In Turkey, registration of refugees is done through the Turkish authorities rather than the UNHCR, so we're working with the Turkish authorities there.
We do work with Jordanian authorities and with Lebanese authorities in terms of setting up this process. There are issues such as obtaining exit permits. We have to work with those governments to do that.
We need to consult with them throughout the process. These refugees are in their country, and we wouldn't be taking out refugees in the large numbers we're considering doing without working closely with all the governments concerned.
The Chair: Could we, for the record, have the full name of the UNHCR?
Mr. Frank: UNHCR is the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
The Chair: And there is, in the section of the statement that Mr. Matson made, a reference to the United Nations Refugee Agency. Is that the same thing?
Mr. Frank: That's the same organization, yes.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Wallace: Undoubtedly Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon are incurring tremendous expense. It's a wonderful thing they're doing to support the refugees at this time.
In this initial phase of identifying and selecting, the cost that you're indicating for Canada would be $178 million. Are there any additional costs for that purpose that would be covered either by the United Nations Refugee Agency or the Government of Turkey, or is it entirely for Canada to cover that as far as those that are coming to Canada?
Mr. Matson: The costs as identified in these supplementary estimates are only those that are being incurred by the Government of Canada. We are contributing funding to the UNHCR to help us identify the refugees who we will be accepting applications from, and $10 million has been provided, within the $178 million, to the UNHCR. Above and beyond that, any costs incurred by the other governments are not included in these figures.
Senator Wallace: The second part of the financial request is the $99.9 million for grants and contributions for income support for newcomers, as you refer to it. Is that only in respect of those who would be funded entirely by the federal government in addition to those who would be privately sponsored? Is a portion of those funds going to both groups or only one?
Mr. Matson: Of the $99.9 million, the majority is for government-assisted refugees. With regard to some of the settlement funding, $10 million, I believe privately sponsored refugees are also eligible for settlement services such as language training, et cetera, but the remainder under the resettlement assistance program is for government-assisted refugees only.
Senator Wallace: Over what period of time is it anticipated that this income support for newcomers will be provided?
Mr. Matson: We've been planning, I believe, for six years of funding. The funding in these supplementary estimates is only for this fiscal year, but there is additional support provided for the next four to five years after this current fiscal year.
Senator Wallace: You've referred to that funding as income support for newcomers, for food, clothing and shelter. Are there other federal programs, though, that will provide additional financial assistance to refugees during this six- year period you've indicated, through employment or whatever other departments?
I'm just trying to get a sense of the type of financial commitment. As a country, we're pleased to make it. This is a wonderful humanitarian effort, but just so we understand the financial consequences, will there be federal government contributions towards this effort other than the $99 million for income support for newcomers?
Mr. Matson: I have no specific figures. I hesitate to comment, but I would say that these individuals would be eligible for other federal government programs, as are other Canadians. There would be other programs supporting these individuals, but I'm not really in a position to even speculate how much that would be.
Senator Wallace: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Mr. Matson, it would be helpful for all of us to understand it a little more clearly. The two groups, the government sponsored and the privately sponsored, the 10,000 between now and the end of the year, does that include both or just the government side of things?
Mr. Matson: That's an excellent question, and I'll turn it over to Mr. Frank.
Mr. Frank: We roughly estimate that in the group of 10,000 there will be 2,000 government-assisted refugees and 8,000 privately sponsored refugees. That's an estimate, because we have processing centres in Beirut, one in Amman and another is in the process of opening in Turkey. We are processing those cases at new centres, so we don't know the exact rate at which we'll be able to issue visas, but that's roughly the mix we're anticipating.
The Chair: That's helpful. Can I apply the same division to the 15,000 before the end of February?
Mr. Frank: In fact, the refugees that are being referred to us by the UNHCR and the Turkish authorities will be, for the most part, government-assisted refugees, unless they already have relatives in Canada.
Overall, the rough estimate is 15,000 government-assisted and 10,000 privately sponsored, for a total of 25,000.
[Translation]
Senator Rivard: I don't think we've ever seen the likes of the Syrian crisis. In the past, we have taken in many political refugees — we need only think of the Kosovars, the boat people and those who fled tyrannies such as in Cambodia — as well as those who fled situations such as the earthquake in Haiti. It is safe to say that the overall impact of those three events combined is less significant globally than that of the current Syrian crisis. Would you agree? When we took in the Kosovars or the boat people, the number of individuals was about the same. I don't know the figures, but, off the top of your head, would you say they are comparable?
[English]
Mr. Matson: I don't have the statistics on these other initiatives, but I do understand this is one of the most significant initiatives that we've taken on in the regime of helping refugees in many years. Unfortunately, I don't have the statistics.
[Translation]
Senator Rivard: Mind you, I am only asking the question to get a simple detail, as I fully agree with the government's decision. Normally, resettled refugees receive a loan to cover the costs of their medical exam and travel to Canada from their country or the country they are in. In this case, however, the government chose to bear those costs. I'm not saying it was a policy, just what was traditionally done before. Personally, I agree with this approach, but do you have an idea of what the total cost will be per person for medical exams and travel, in order to bring these refugees to Canada?
Mr. Matson: That's a great question; I have a few numbers I can give you.
[English]
Normally, historically, the average loan to a refugee has been $3,000 approximately. It was stated that the government has decided to forego the requirement for refugees to pay for their transportation costs and some medical examinations through a loan. So they've taken on the requirement to pay for all of the travel from overseas and the medical examinations for the 25,000 refugees. I believe those figures bring us to somewhere between $70 million and $80 million that the government will be paying in lieu of having the refugees pay for those costs themselves.
[Translation]
The Chair: Thank you. Senator Mockler has a supplementary question.
Senator Mockler: As a senator from New Brunswick, I want you to know that I strongly support the province's request with respect to this initiative, and I'll have a chance, Mr. Chair, to ask more questions shortly, after your presentation. I'd also like you to know that the vast majority of New Brunswickers are behind this humanitarian initiative.
Nevertheless, Canadians have the wrong impression that the government is going to give millions of dollars to every refugee. To pick up on Senator Rivard's question, I'd like to know the maximum amount of money that the refugees — who are sometimes accompanied by grandfathers, grandmothers, small children and so forth — receive upon arriving in Canada, if you can tell us that.
I know that, when it comes to social assistance and income support programs at the provincial level, such as in New Brunswick, recipients receive a limited amount of money. Can you assure us that the government will be able to tell Canadians the maximum amount that refugees and their families will receive through government or other programs?
Mr. Matson: That's an excellent question, as well as a complex one.
[English]
When refugees come to Canada, they're provided with various levels of assistance. When they first arrive to Canada, they are provided with immediate assistance for their basic needs, and then they can also be eligible for income support for up to 12 months. That income support is comparable to the social assistance they would receive in the province that they are in.
They are also entitled to some settlement assistance support, such as language training, et cetera. There are those dollars that are made available. I don't have specific amounts per refugee, but I can probably get those for you.
Refugees are entitled to support for some of their health care costs, and they are entitled to amounts that are equivalent to what provinces would pay to any Canadian.
The Chair: Why don't we get back to our list? I have you on the list at the appropriate place. Normally a supplementary is a very quick clarification. If you're jumping out of place, it doesn't work well.
Senator Mockler: Thank you. I always respect the guidance of the chair.
The Chair: I've already given him some leniency because of his place of origin.
Senator Gerstein is a former deputy chair of the committee and a senator from Toronto. You have floor.
Senator Gerstein: Firstly, I'd like to start by commending the committee for the initiative they're implementing. We all take great pride in it.
Perhaps I might direct this to Mr. Frank, pursuing the issue that Senator Day raised. As I understand it, 10,000 refugees are coming in, of which you indicated 2,000 are government sponsored and 8,000 are private. I'm not quite sure how one would get into either of those groups. If you start with the premise that there is a family of five in a refugee camp in Jordan, how do they get into either of the two groups? What is the decision-making process?
Mr. Frank: For the government-assisted refugees, the decision to refer the cases to us is made by the UNHCR. In our normal process of selecting refugees abroad, the UNHCR is the referral agency for us. Under normal circumstances, they will meet with the refugees and assess their vulnerability. They will see what their background is and so on.
We work very closely with the UNHCR, and we let them know the types of individuals that we're prepared to resettle in Canada. There may be some people with medical needs, medical issues, people from the LGBT community, and we're very sympathetic to the vulnerability they might be experiencing because of that.
This is a very special project. It's done very quickly because of the need, so we've established a special process with the UNHCR.
Mr. Chair, I hope I'm not taking too much time, but I think this is important to explain.
The Chair: It's very important for us to have this understanding. I will not say take all the time that you need, but —
Mr. Frank: I'll do it as fast as I can; I promise.
So we have a special process here where the UNHCR gets in touch with people they think might meet very special criteria and a quick assessment. We're looking for families who are vulnerable; we are looking for women who are vulnerable; and we are looking for people from the LGBT communities.
They do a quick review of the circumstances. They re-establish the identity of the person through an iris scan, because they've met them before, and then they give us the names of these people. In some instances, they'll schedule an interview with us right away.
The process for what we call privately sponsored refugees starts in Canada. You can have groups of five who would like to sponsor someone. You can have what we call sponsorship agreement holders. These can be church groups or different types of organizations. They say, "We want to sponsor refugees," and they can identify the refugee abroad. A lot of these people are already registered with the UNHCR, but the names of the refugees are provided to us by the group of five or the sponsorship agreement holders in Canada.
Senator Gerstein: If you go back to the fact that the refugees are in a particular camp, it's more likely, if there is an issue as you described — gay community, transgender, et cetera — that they will be referred to the government group that is being sponsored, as distinct from a family of five that will be more likely allocated to a non-profit group.
Mr. Frank: The UNHCR doesn't allocate these people to organizations in Canada. The organizations in Canada are aware of these people themselves. Very often they're relatives of people who are in Canada.
Senator Gerstein: I see. That's what I didn't understand.
Mr. Frank: They can say that their brother or cousin is in a camp in Lebanon and they want to do a sponsorship for that person.
Senator Gerstein: I see. Thank you very much. That's a very helpful clarification, which I didn't understand.
Mr. Frank: There is another part to it, a small group, but we'll let that go for now. I think we won't confuse the issue.
Senator Gerstein: Thank you.
Mr. Frank: You're welcome.
[Translation]
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Perhaps out of curiosity and to draw a link between our efforts to support refugees in the past, I'd like to know how many refugees Canada has taken in every year for the last three years.
Mr. Matson: Over the last three years, I believe we have taken in approximately 10,000 refugees annually.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: That gives me an idea. I'd like to discuss public opinion and the apparent fuss that is being made of Canada's efforts to take in 25,000 refugees.
If we break that number down over the 2015-16 fiscal year, we get more or less the same number of refugees. As long as we select only people from Syria and don't take in an excessive number of the 1 million refugees — because that is how people here perceive it — this is a reasonable endeavour. Of 1 million refugees, we are taking in 25,000. Over 2 years, that amounts to 10,000 and 15,000 people respectively. We usually take in 10,000 per year. So people should rest assured that they can have confidence in your system. It's a system that already existed, not something that was suddenly thrown together because of the crisis in Syria.
I think it's important to reassure people — something I do on a regular basis — that you aren't making things up as you go along, that you're not selecting just anyone and that you're following a system, a mechanism, that has been in place for years. When I heard that Canada was welcoming 2,000 refugees before Christmas, under a government-led initiative, I was far from taken aback by the number. To my mind, it's pretty modest.
I'd like to know whether the Red Cross is one of the non-profit organizations involved in this operation, since it has built up expertise in this area.
Mike McDonald, Director General, Operational Management and Coordination, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: Yes, absolutely. The Red Cross is involved in activities taking place in Canada. We are working closely with the organization.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: It has certainly acquired the necessary expertise to perform this kind of work.
Mr. McDonald: Absolutely.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: So nothing about this initiative is being made up on the fly. That's the point I wanted to make. I wanted to make sure that our contribution to this humanitarian effort was more than valid, and something we could all be proud of. At any rate, we aren't placing some unreasonable burden on Canadians.
Mr. Frank: The Red Cross also administers a portion of the medical exams for the refugees in Jordan. It is involved abroad as well.
[English]
The Chair: Is there a matching program and does it apply to private and public groups?
Mr. Matson: I believe a program has been put in place. I'm not very current on the specifics of it, but I believe a matching fund has been put in place by the government, and any contributions made in support of Syrians will be matched. I'm pretty sure that fund is managed through Global Affairs Canada.
The Chair: Is there some way you could let us know the total commitment by the federal government? Is it matching up until the end of December or the end of this February for the 25,000?
Mr. Matson: My understanding is it was opened up until the end of December. They may have extended it, but we can get back to you.
The Chair: If you could let the clerk know, and we will circulate that information.
That would apply to the private groups as well? If a church, for example, was bringing in a family, and that church group raised $100,000 to help the family, is there $100,000 coming from the federal government for that privately sponsored group as well, or is it only the publicly sponsored?
Mr. Matson: I'm not sufficiently aware of the specifics of the matching group program to be able to respond, but I believe that is the principle. Any funds raised by the private sector, by Canadians, will be matched through this fund that is being managed by Global Affairs Canada.
The Chair: Any clarification on that will be helpful.
Mr. Matson: Absolutely.
Senator Mockler: To share with the honourable senators and the officials, two weeks ago I went to see the Government of New Brunswick. Minister Francine Landry briefed me on the proposal for New Brunswick. I want to share. It's public, so I am not divulging any cabinet secrets from New Brunswick.
When we look at refugees, they are not a liability; they are an asset. In New Brunswick, there are a few questions I would like to bring to your attention. New Brunswick is developing a multi-stakeholder plan for refugees that includes the Department of Health, the Department of Education, Social Development, Public Safety, and even Service New Brunswick, and also, yes, the Red Cross in New Brunswick is a full-fledged partner. We support that.
New Brunswick is the only province that is officially bilingual under the Constitution of Canada. I brought to their attention the importance of making sure — they told me, and it was said in reports in the paper and on radio and TV — that they keep in mind this ratio.
[Translation]
Francophones make up 30 per cent of the province's population and anglophones make up 70 per cent. That is the current breakdown of our communities. Are you going to keep a close eye on this file to assure the public, the Government of New Brunswick, me, a senator, and others, that the 70/30 split will be respected?
[English]
Mr. McDonald: There are a few things in the question that I would like to address, senator. I'll start with the spirit of working across the country that you raised, which is very important. It starts in the federal government with the way that we're organizing ourselves to address the situation.
This is a multi-department effort; it is not our department alone. Hundreds of people are working at this, and federal assets are combined. We coordinate that through the Government Operations Centre, which falls under the approved Federal Emergency Response Plan.
Within that construct, provinces, territories, municipalities are connected, but stakeholders are right there planning this operation with us. I think that's a key point that the senator has raised.
In addition, in our department, we already have the linkages to the agreement holders, the service providers, and those people at the grassroots level, organizations that Mr. Frank talked about that work with private-sponsored and government-assisted refugees in helping them with the settlement and meeting basic needs. That is very connected.
What is important to realize about this population is we do try and work within the parameters of provinces, territories, municipalities in what services are available. We don't want to overwhelm capacity, but we also want to try and work with individual territories or provinces to respect their wishes in terms of how many people could settle in their locations.
Language is interesting. It is something that we do consider when our department decides where we are going to settle or send someone. However, the facts and the reality of this refugee movement is that many of these refugees — probably the vast majority — do not speak either of Canada's official languages. They speak only Arabic. This has caused us to adjust our basic communications when we receive them tonight in Toronto and in Montreal on the weekend.
So we are very aware, senator, of the province's needs and wishes, the municipalities and the rural-urban split as well. We have to always consider the needs, the characteristics — medical, language and education — of the refugees. It's part of a complex puzzle in deciding where someone actually goes in Canada.
Senator Mockler: When it comes to language, it's very important because of the role that we've played in history and now play as a bilingual province, because I know that the Université de Moncton and others do have language trainees.
Why I'm sensitive to this fact — I will give you another statistic, Mr. Chair, and then I will ask one more question.
We will bring in 25,000 refugees, and New Brunswick is looking at a proposal of 1,500 refugees. It's factual that New Brunswick represents 2.1 per cent of the Canadian population. However, our province that I'm very proud of — and there is no doubt all senators in New Brunswick are as well, Mr. Chair — is asking for 6 per cent of the refugees coming into Canada. I bring to your attention that that's important. That is why I want to intervene on this question of why the officials are here. I don't question the role that you play. You play an important role. You have to look at Canada. Don't forget New Brunswick.
Can you give us, or share with the chair, a detailed list of all of the departments that are involved in bringing the 25,000 refugees into Canada?
Mr. Matson: Absolutely, a number of other government departments are involved with this, without which this would not be possible: I can think of a few. There's the Canada Border Services Agency. I'm sorry; I'm going to use the old titles of these departments. Those are the ones I'm most familiar with.
The Chair: Then you'll know what you're talking about.
Mr. Matson: That's true.
There's Global Affairs Canada, the former DFATD. They're intimately involved in this.
There's PHAC, which is the health agency of Canada. They're deeply involved in this as well.
We're working with PWGSC on some of our procurement issues. That would be another key partner in this initiative.
DND, of course, is involved in this. They're providing a lot of essential help, overseas and in Canada. There is a multitude. The RCMP is involved, as is CSIS.
Service Canada is involved in helping deal with the settlement services that our clients will ultimately need as they begin life in Canada.
A number of federal government departments are engaged in this initiative and many municipal and provincial partners as well. So this really is an all-of-Canada effort. Transport Canada, as well, is involved.
Mr. McDonald: I just wanted to add two other partners — Public Safety Canada, and Heritage Canada, because we are also delivering Canadian Heritage kits to refugees upon arrival, to help with the assimilation program. It's getting close to 15 to 20 departments or agencies that are involved in this overall effort.
Senator Mockler: In both official languages?
Mr. McDonald: Yes.
Senator L. Smith: Gentlemen, supporting all of our senators in here in terms of the importance of this activity and listening to your feedback leads me into my question following Senator Mockler.
With 15 to 20 agencies involved, I'm sure it's a fluid situation because you've had to mobilize yourself very quickly. Our side of the government is very supportive of this effort. We just want to make sure everything is done in a cost- effective way.
What is the estimate of the total cost of this project, and how will that estimate vary as you move forward with the actual numbers? To put this together is obviously a major undertaking, to coordinate it and to understand costs. I'm sure there are going to be some surprises along the way. What are we looking at, and what type of contingency do you see occurring in terms of your costs?
Mr. Matson: That's an excellent question. Cost has always been something that we paid very close attention to in looking at all of the permutations and combinations of things that can happen over the next five years. It's been very challenging but very interesting to deal with. We've paid a lot of attention to the costs, and we've also worked very closely with our colleagues at Treasury Board, who challenge us on all of our asks, not only for this initiative but all government requests for funding. We're challenged very thoroughly by the Treasury Board Secretariat.
This initiative, at the end of the day, for these 25,000 refugees over the next six years, the total cost is in the neighbourhood of $678 million. That's for all government departments for all years, and that includes operating funding. The bulk of that is for the settlement services that the refugees will be provided with over the six years.
That's the envelope, about $678 million over the six years, for all government departments, for all costs, operating and benefits that will be given to refugees to help them integrate into Canada.
Senator L. Smith: From a practical perspective, if DND spends X number of dollars over that period of time — and that will probably be in the initial phase when they're putting them up in Valcartier or in Ontario — how is that handled? Do they get a bump in their budget to cover it, or do they come back to Treasury Board? How is that going to work? I asked the same question of Treasury Board, and their answer wasn't quite as definitive as yours.
Mr. Matson: For our department, for example, we're receiving additional funding through these supplementary estimates and our Main Estimates for future years. I imagine other departments will be doing the same, and they'll be going through a similar challenge function with Treasury Board. So what they will actually be able to secure in the future and need I think will be determined still, and they will be coming forth to this committee in the future with those asks, once they have been challenged. They have already been challenged, but once they are ready to bring it forth here.
Appropriate contingencies have been built into our funding asks. It's not like we will be spending the entire $678 million. This is a very complex initiative, and we have asked for appropriate contingencies to deal with all of the permutations and combinations of things that could happen over the next six years. I believe the process that you'll see coming forth will be that each department will come to this committee and other committees with an explanation and a justification of their resource requirements.
Senator L. Smith: Out of the 678, what percentage would be contingencies, in this particular perspective, so that you can plan effectively?
Mr. Matson: Of the 678, the total contingency across departments is about $114 million. That is a across both operating and grants and contributions for refugees. A lot of that contingency is retained by the Treasury Board Secretariat, and we'll have to go to them for access to that contingency funding. If it's not spent, it will be returned to the fiscal framework.
Senator L. Smith: Did they participate in the construction of the numbers with you, or did you do it and then have that discussion with them in terms of the numbers?
Mr. Matson: It was more the latter. We've been working very closely with many departments on the development of the cost estimates in reviewing all of the possible options that we were looking at for the delivery of this program, but all along the way we have been working very closely with Treasury Board Secretariat so that they were very aware of our assumptions for coming up with the cost estimates and the reasonableness of the options that we were considering. Ultimately, at the end of the day, there is a significant challenge function that they play. After having been plugged in all along the way in the process of developing the costs, there is a challenge function that they perform. Then, after all of that, we come to you with the final result, which is what we're requesting.
Senator L. Smith: From the provincial perspective and the municipal perspective, have there been requests made to you folks to have some form of compensation coverage for the expenses that they incur, and is that included in the $678 million?
Mr. Matson: Our request does not include funding for provinces and municipalities. I believe there is an expectation that we are all partners in this, and they will be contributing to this effort in many ways. I can't really even speculate or try to quantify that in dollar terms, but our funding request does not include funding for provinces and municipalities.
Mr. McDonald: I wanted to add one point for Senator Smith. For both Treasury Board Secretariat and Department of Finance, while the costing and the challenge function were occurring at the same time, clearly, because of the time, we were planning the actual operations, creating the national plan, the tactical plans, setting up overseas.
That activity occurred in a different space, and Treasury Board, Finance and the Privy Council Office are there at the table with us all along. Their challenge function is more than from just a central agency perspective traditional. They are actually right at the table while we're doing the planning and the assumptions, as well as the tactical-level planning.
Senator L. Smith: The past government, of course, said that they had committed to 10,000 refugees coming in, and now the new government is up to 25,000, which is great. How long have you folks been in planning? If the guys who were in the slot before were planning to bring in 10,000, has your planning process been going on for the last six or seven months? If so, is it just the case where you take the number and move from 10,000 to 25,000 and have to time it out? How has it proceeded?
Mr. McDonald: Overall, planning is complex, and we've had to adjust quickly to different requirements as we have gone through this.
We have been working on this for many months, depending on the goal or the target of the government of the day. However, by using the federal emergency response structure, we were able to increase our planning very quickly and already have the appropriate departments and agencies already there thinking. With each successive announcement about the target to achieve, we have adjusted our planning all along.
But remember, a regular flow of refugees for our department is established through our annual levels plan, so a lot of those structures already exist. We are able to simply plan for something more. Not "simply," but I think you get my point, senator. We are able to work off what we have each time a new target is made. Clearly we are in a very significant planning and a tactical operation right now.
Senator L. Smith: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Frank: If I could add, this process is unprecedented in terms of the effort that's required. While we had planned and while things were moving forward, the pace in terms of proposed arrivals necessitated setting up offices at a breakneck speed.
This really is unprecedented, and I think it's the right reaction given the humanitarian need. I have to say that personally, hearing the support coming from you in terms of our doing this is really welcome. It's a big challenge for us all, but I think we can handle it.
The Chair: Good. Thank you for those additional words. We can assure you of our support for the effort and do anything we can to help out. The first thing we're going to try to do is vote you more money here. That's what we're working on.
Senator Ataullahjan: I just want to put on the record that I'm very supportive of what the government is doing.
Most of the children that are coming have not had any schooling, through no fault of their own. Have any funds been allocated for the education of these children to bring them up to par and help them integrate into Canadian society?
The other issue is that obviously there will be a lot of mental health issues. Have any funds been allocated for that, too?
Mr. Matson: With respect to your first question in terms of additional educational requirements, I'm not aware of any funding in this ask for additional special educational requirements of the children. I believe education is within the domain of the provinces. There is nothing in this with regard to that requirement.
With respect to your second question, there is funding in here for some psychosocial support. When the refugees arrive in Canada, they are assessed, and if they require that type of service, there is funding in here for that.
[Translation]
Senator Bellemare: I, too, believe that this is a very worthwhile humanitarian effort and that we should continue to move in this direction. But, like Senator Smith, I have financial questions, since we are, after all, the Finance Committee. I'd like to get a better sense of the impact this humanitarian effort will have on our finances. My understanding, from what you have told us, is that the numbers are going up, with 25,000 refugees throughout 2016. We have already taken some in, so we don't know whether we're dealing with an additional 25,000, on top of those we have already accepted, or whether they are just part of the overall total.
There is, however, a point I'd like to make. After looking at the figures you've given us and doing some quick math, I see that you are asking for some $280 million through the supplementary estimates for 10,000 refugees, which amounts to about $28,000 per refugee. Your numbers add up; you're telling us it will cost about $778 million for 25,000 refugees. So all of that makes sense.
That's the cost for the arrival program, if I understand correctly. That does not include the costs assumed by the provinces. So my question is this: Under your plan, do you intend to take advantage of employment and entrepreneurship support programs for all of the refugees who will be arriving, precisely to help them integrate quickly into Canadian society? We all know that having a job and participating in economic life will help these people not only learn our languages more quickly, but also integrate into our society. Does your program include any such funding, because these people won't be eligible to receive employment insurance? That responsibility will fall on the shoulders of the provinces. Have any alarms gone off to alert you to the fact that the integration of these newcomers also depends on that dimension?
Mr. Matson: That's a very comprehensive question. Thank you. I'll start with your first question.
[English]
These requirements are in addition to what we do in our normal levels plan for refugees. This is over and above, and that's why we're asking for additional resources, and that is for 25,000 refugees for this fiscal year. Above, absolutely.
In terms of your second question, I believe there is no funding in our ask for the educational supports that we've talked about earlier and job training that might be very helpful for these refugees to integrate into Canadian society. It is not in this ask, and there is no funding for the provinces for their requirements either. This is purely funding that we're asking for to help identify, process, transport and integrate into Canadian society the refugees for up to one year after their arrival. Above and beyond that, there is no funding in this ask at all.
[Translation]
Senator Bellemare: Mr. Chair, I would like that component to factor into our efforts; it's important that, going forward, the government set aside funding to help these newcomers integrate into the labour force.
Mr. Frank: Building on what Mr. Matson said, I think it's important that we refine how we use the word "direct."
[English]
A portion of the money included in our supplementary goes toward certain organizations whose responsibility at the grassroots, community level is to provide community connections, support, counselling, language and pre-employment types of training. The federal government relies on community organizations, sponsor organizations and service organizations to deliver that.
We do not deliver jobs programs directly to refugees; however, we do support through contribution agreements by providing certain amounts of money to those who do, in addition to what they may get from a municipality, a church group, the city or the province itself.
[Translation]
Senator Bellemare: So that is part of the $10.9 million that has been earmarked, resettlement support also being a form of direct assistance. In the transfer expenditures, we can see a total.
[English]
Mr. Matson: We're asking for $99.9 million in grants and contributions in support of this initiative. As Mr. McDonald has pointed out, that includes supports that we provide to service provider organizations to help them integrate into Canadian society with some employment supports.
[Translation]
Senator Bellemare: An $88-million contribution has been earmarked for resettlement assistance and another $11- million contribution has been allocated to the settlement program. What is the difference between those two initiatives?
Daniel Mills, Director General, Financial Management, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada: Would you mind repeating the question, please?
Senator Bellemare: I'd like to know the difference between the transfers for resettlement assistance, totalling $89 million, and the settlement program, totalling $11 million.
[English]
Mr. Matson: Yes. There is about $11 million for settlement programs. The rest, approximately $88 million, as was pointed out, will be for resettlement assistance programs, which includes supports to refugees when they first get here, such as immediate life supports and immediate housing requirements. They're also entitled to income support for up to one year, unless they're able to begin to support themselves.
Over and above that, the $10 million to $11 million is for settlement services. We engage with service provider organizations to help provide language training and perhaps help them find employment. That's all included in the figures, the $10 million that you've referred to, yes.
[Translation]
Senator Chaput: My question will be quick. It ties into Senator Mockler's questions about language training.
We all know that, when immigrants come to Canada and are barely able to speak either official language, it's always harder for them to learn French, because English-language training outside Quebec is prevalent, easy and accessible.
If they want to learn French, training is less accessible and more expensive for them. In this case, we are going to be taking in a considerable number of refugees. Let's take the only bilingual province, New Brunswick, as an example. When a provincial government has set targets for the francophone and anglophone makeup of its population, can you assure us that these refugees will have equal access to training in both official languages when they arrive in Canada, whether it be in New Brunswick or Manitoba?
That has never been the case, but this time around, I would like us to make sure that training in both official languages is equally accessible. I believe the federal government has an obligation to ensure equal access in that regard.
[English]
Mr. Frank: It's a difficult question.
Mr. Matson: I'll give it a try.
We provide funding to service provider organizations to assist with language training, amongst other things. I would believe that we would provide those to service provider organizations in communities in a way that reflects the community and that they would provide the training required for that community.
Above and beyond that, I don't have enough information to understand what that percentage is. I would not even speculate what it should be.
Mr. McDonald: I can add that every year or every three year, we do a large national call for proposals for these settlement organizations. It's a call to ask if an organization can meet a very robust requirement in language, language training, language skills, language education — all these component parts of a successful integration — as being part of their proposal. We receive hundreds of them. This is vote 5 money. We have a very robust system in which we award those agreements to those agreement holders to deliver those services.
I can assure you, senator, that the linguistic duality across the country is part of the assessment criteria, amongst others, that we're looking at for those community organizations or other types of organizations to deliver those services. That falls within the remit of our department.
[Translation]
Senator Chaput: I would humbly suggest something to you. When you award the contracts to the various agencies and groups who will be delivering official languages training, you should make sure that they use a very simple training approach.
Most of these people who come from other countries speak neither official language. Some very simple literacy techniques exist when it comes to teaching someone a language. With French, for example, if they can speak it, they can get by. I realize that it's important to know how to write in French, but, as I see it, when children arrive in a strange land with no understanding of the language, the first thing they should learn is how to communicate orally.
These literacy training techniques must not be overlooked. What's more, when it comes time to dole out this funding, you should factor that dimension into your requirements. It's certainly worth some consideration.
Mr. McDonald: Thank you for your suggestions, senator. I will pass them on to the people in charge of tendering.
[English]
The Chair: We were talking earlier about the matching program, and you weren't certain of the details. But we've received communication, and I will indicate to you what we understand the matching program to be. If it turns out to be different, you'll let us know.
It's $100 million that the federal government will be matching, any private contributions in relation to the current refugee situation, up to December 31 of this year. That might change, since other things have changed. The 25,000 is now going to February. But that is the latest statement by the minister on this, as we understand it.
Mr. Matson: That would be consistent with what I understand. I wasn't sure at the time, but that is what I think to be the case, as well.
The Chair: If it turns out to be otherwise, you'll let us know, but we'll go on that basis.
We're over the time that we've asked you to be here, but I have two senators who want to go with a second round of questions. We have very strict rules in round two: short, snappy questions and short, snappy answers.
Senator Wallace: Mr. Matson, as you've indicated, the total number of government-sponsored refugees will be 15,000. What input will those refugees have as to where they settle in Canada? There is obviously a major difference between settling in a larger urban centre versus rural. Do they have any meaningful input as to where they will be settled in Canada?
Mr. Frank: When a visa officer abroad interviews the applicants, he or she takes a look at their training, their work experience, their professional background and also looks at whether or not they may have special needs or if there is someone in the family who has a medical issue, and so on, and takes that into consideration. The information is sent to what we refer to as the matching centre, different matching centres and matching funds.
We have qualified people there who look at that information and information from the communities and the service providers that are willing to take the refugees. They also consider how many refugees a particular province has indicated that they wish to take. They take all of that information and use it to select a destination for the refugee family.
Senator Wallace: Yes, but my question was: Do the refugees have any input as to where they want to go? If they knew of any cities in Canada, it's likely Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver. If they say, "I want to go to a larger urban centre," does that carry any weight?
Mr. Frank: Absolutely. One of the important factors is if they have any relatives or friends in Canada
Senator Wallace: They'd perhaps be privately sponsored if that was the case.
Mr. Frank: It's still the case that refugees who are selected by the UNHCR may have connections to Canada. In fact, that's one of the things that traditionally, even outside of this program, we ask the UNHCR to see, whether or not refugees have connections to Canada. We definitely ask them that information.
We will ask them what their preferences are, but I have to say that not every refugee can go to Toronto or Vancouver. We do want to send refugees to smaller communities, to communities in provinces like New Brunswick. Communities and provinces have told us consistently that these people are very important, that they want refugees.
We'll definitely take into consideration what they say, but we will be sending refugees to the communities that need them.
Mr. McDonald: I can give you a direct example from last week, senator.
I happened to be in our matching centre, which is an operations centre that matches people to their destination. I saw a file, and an individual had, in fact, put a preference down because of some family links to a smaller city outside of a major city here in Canada.
Taking that into account and looking at all the other services and/or needs that Mr. Frank discussed and the capacity of the service provider organizations, we did in fact match that person to that exact place. That was a file I happened to come across last week.
Senator Wallace: That's helpful. Thank you.
Senator Mockler: In New Brunswick, Canada has identified three centres: Saint John, Moncton and Fredericton. You are now in the process of certifying other regions in New Brunswick. I see here Caraquet, Sussex, Edmundston. When will those areas that we call urban/rural be certified?
Mr. McDonald: Extremely good question, senator.
The process of certifying welcoming communities outside of those three centres in your example is something the department does in a very judicious fashion, because we need to ensure that all of the support services are there.
That said, we are undertaking right now a process to reach out. We have reached out to the provinces, territories and the provider organizations to try and work with them to find a way to quickly — and I'm talking fairly quickly, much faster than we do normally — look at those welcoming centres and expand that network.
A couple reasons, senator. One is we need to have more centres, but we have to do it right because we have had refugees coming every day for years now and into the future. We have to make sure those welcoming communities can support them. We are expediting the process, but we will be judicious.
Senator Mockler: How many refugees do we have worldwide? What is the number? Is it 100,000? Is it thousands or millions? Can you give me the figure?
Mr. Frank: Excuse me, senator, do you mean refugees that are —
Senator Mockler: People known as refugees.
Mr. Frank: — in our inventory?
Senator Mockler: No, around the globe.
Mr. Frank: Displaced people? It's millions. I wouldn't have the precise figure.
Senator Mockler: According to the United Nations, it could be anywhere between 4 million to 8 million and now progressing, going to 80 million.
The Chair: That is huge.
Thank you very much for being here on short notice, Mr. Matson, Mr. Frank, Mr. McDonald and Mr. Mills. We appreciate you being here from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. We very much appreciate the work that you're doing for Canada and for the world.
We're very pleased for this second panel to have a professor from the Faculty of Law at the University of Ottawa, Ms. Liew, who heard the department giving its presentation. I asked her if there were any points that she would like to pick up on from what they had to say that could help us, either emphasizing their points positively or otherwise, and any other comments she may have. That would be helpful.
Professor Liew, we appreciate your being here.
Jamie Chai Yun Liew, Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, as an individual: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, honourable senators. I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.
As the honourable chair mentioned, my name is Jamie Liew. I'm an immigration and refugee lawyer but also a law professor at the University of Ottawa.
I first want to applaud the government in committing to a large-scale resettlement effort of Syrian refugees. I appreciate that this is a complicated undertaking, given that it has not been fully planned and that the government is working with a fluid and dynamic situation. Understanding this, my presentation to you today will offer four recommendations, all revolving around the concern from the refugee support community that there may not be enough resources for refugee settlement.
These four recommendations are, first, that refugee settlement agencies are underfunded and will bear a heavy burden in implementing the government's ambitious resettlement plan; second, that resettling refugees will require coordination, and this requires resources not already allocated to settlement agencies; third, refugee assistance should be provided to all refugees, whether they are from Syria or not; and, finally, that refugee assistance should include affordable housing and, as Senator Ataullahjan mentioned, access to mental health care.
It's important to understand that the government has and currently funds refugee settlement in a number of ways, as presented to you this afternoon, first, directly providing funds to those that have been brought here by the federal government through the Government-Assisted Refugee Program. The government also, as many of you mentioned, provides loans to assist refugees in obtaining medical examinations and travel to Canada.
The government, however, also funds refugee assistance program agencies, or what I'll refer to as settlement agencies, through the settlement and refugee assistance program. These agencies or organizations are front-line organizations on the ground that assist resettled refugees once they arrive in Canada.
Funds from this program flow to services to help newcomers settle and adapt to life in Canada. They can include assistance for language training, finding employment, orientation on financial information or getting government services, cultural and social integration. They also do the hard work of meeting refugees at airports, at ports of entry, finding temporary accommodation, referring them to legal or other social services, and helping persons find basic household items, accompanying them to government offices or medical and day appointments.
A variety of organizations receive funds in this manner. I think the representatives who came here today noted that about $11 million is being slated for this effort.
I wanted to give you an example of what kinds of organizations do this work. For example, here in Ottawa we have the Catholic immigrant services and also the Ottawa Community Immigrant Services Organization, known as OCISO. They benefit from this program. These organizations at the best of times are underfunded and will be facing greater demand with the government's efforts to resettle Syrian refugees.
My recommendations today flow from an understanding of how the government has and is assisting resettlement in these two ways. As I said, I have four recommendations.
On my first recommendation, settlement agencies will largely be responsible for ensuring that newly arrived refugees will receive support. While the government yesterday announced a 25 per cent increase in funding for these agencies, it is unclear at the moment and unlikely that this increased expenditure will match the increase in effort and expenditures undertaken by these agencies to deal with the anticipated influx of refugees.
As well, the government's decision to not renew existing agreements with settlement agencies but to extend current agreements means that the agencies are asked to absorb costs of implementing this endeavour. For example, the very persons who are asked to make these heroic efforts to resettle overwhelming numbers of refugees may forgo salary increases related to inflation, and it is my recommendation that these agreements should be renewed or a one-time top- up should be considered to cover the period until these agreements are renewed.
My second recommendation involves coordination efforts around refugee resettlement. Resettlement includes persons and organizations that may not be able to access the funding or the $11 million that is set aside for resettlement purposes.
For example, here in Ottawa there is an organization called Refugee 613. They're coordinating the city-wide effort in Ottawa for refugee settlement, but they're not a settlement agency. Therefore, they are ineligible for funds received by settlement agencies. Nevertheless, they are doing important work, such as convening task forces, training sponsors and communicating resettlement information. This is a unique grassroots coalition and does not have sustainable funding, and this model can be replicated in other centres of Canada to help coordinate all of the efforts being done in between the settlement agencies that are delivering these services. Local coordination efforts are just as important as specific settlement funding.
Third, for those of us working in the refugee field, we are heartened by this tremendous response by the government. However, funding should not be allocated to the resettlement of Syrian refugees only. As Honourable Senator Mockler pointed out, there are millions of refugees all around the world, and a refugee is a refugee. There are many other groups of persons in need of protection and also in need of settlement and other services. Equal treatment and access to resources should be given to all refugees.
For example, the government has exempted Syrian refugees from the burden of transportation loans in recognition that such a loan has a devastating impact on resettled refugees and thus their settlement process in Canada. This is welcomed. However, this should be the first step in eliminating loans for all resettled refugees.
Finally, attention should be given to first providing affordable housing and, second, access to mental health services. Safe, secure and affordable housing is a resource that plays a critical role in determining overall health and well-being and provides a base from which immigrants and refugees can seek employment, re-establish family relationships and make connections with the wider community.
Immigrants and refugees are facing absolute and hidden homelessness problems in Canada. Resources should be allocated to review the provision of adequate income. As spoken earlier by the previous panel, this level of income is at social assistance levels only. Consideration should be given to review this and to facilitate greater access to safe, secure and affordable housing that can accommodate different kinds of families with any number of children and persons with disabilities.
Second, it is easy to understand that refugees are at high risk of mental health issues that go beyond post-traumatic stress disorder, following time in war zones or refugee camps. I understand the government has recognized mental health concerns in their plans regarding where to house refugees, and in the last presentation they mentioned that some funds have been allocated for this. I think more can be done in this area.
While Canada has skilled and experienced professionals to provide trauma treatment, more funding and resources are needed not only to meet the spike in the need for these services but to provide the initial access points for such persons to get these resources. Early interventions are of little cost and help prevent deterioration of mental health problems. These costs can multiply if there is a delayed response.
The government's response to the crisis is tremendous, and I appreciate that details have not yet been sorted out. I hope my recommendations today and my answers to your questions will help the government in planning their next steps.
I just want to note that I am also familiar with the refugee sponsorship and resettlement process, should you have further questions on that. I am undergoing sponsoring a family with a group of individuals and can shed some light with regard to that process as well.
Thank you, honourable senators, for the opportunity to speak with you. I welcome any questions you may have.
The Chair: Thank you very much for being here on such short notice and giving us a very interesting and different perspective than we would get from government officials. That was our hope, that we could have someone who is outside of government but is intimately involved in resettlement issues to help us understand what is happening.
You talked about the $11 million in the supplementary estimates for resettlement programs, but the government previously had asked for over half a billion dollars in that particular program; so they are just asking to supplement that with $11 million more.
Ms. Liew: Right.
The Chair: So $588 million had already been asked for in resettlement. It's a huge expenditure and a large amount of money.
Ms. Liew: Thank you for that, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: There is another category called "Resettlement Assistance." I'm not sure how they break that down, and in these supplementary estimates the government is asking for $89 million more in that particular one as well.
Senator Ataullahjan: Thank you for appearing before us this morning.
I want to go back to where you had the recommendations in your third paragraph where you say we should be looking at refugees from all over. What areas are you specifically thinking about? For me, the Rohingya in Burma come to mind; the world has forgotten about them.
Ms. Liew: While the world has paid a lot of attention to the refugee crisis, which is a phenomenal crisis and deserved, there are a number of groups being inadvertently ignored who may also need assistance.
You can look at the example of refugees that have already been identified by the UNHCR. The government releases a list every week to potential sponsors and sponsorship agreement holders, and on that list are persons from all over the world — from North Africa, Asia. It is important that there be an understanding that the crisis does not just relate to Syrian refugees, but there are wider areas of the world impacted by the displacement of persons and where there is a great need for Canada to step in and provide assistance and asylum.
Senator Ataullahjan: The other issue I raised is the mental health issue, because we have seen children, who only see civil war or war, become very jaded. As someone who emigrated from Pakistan and saw the crisis in Afghanistan develop and has seen children who grew up in times of war, to them war seems normal. That's what they have seen, so just to help them adjust to life and realize there is life other than what they have seen. I feel that for the children specifically, mental health issues and education go side by side.
Education is provincial. We have to remember that the people coming from Syria, in Syria they didn't really have very poor people. These are middle class, lower middle class people; so they did have a good life, which no longer exists. My concern is for the children because we want the children to integrate into Canadian society.
Ms. Liew: That is a very good point. This government has obviously made great moves to provide basic health care to resettled refugees, and I think greater efforts can be made to provide resources for mental health care as well. It's a good point that is often brought up by the community that there are services and people with expertise, but there is going to be an influx in demand for these. We need to be able to provide these services in an accessible way, meaning they are free or subsidized in some way. We shouldn't expect persons working in this field to work for free to provide a very important service. We also need to understand the importance of this with regard to the successful integration and settlement of these refugees in our communities.
The Chair: Ms. Liew, you indicated that you are involved with sponsoring refugees and helping with refugee resettlement. Can you explain to us the process that an organization might have to go through to sponsor? Are any of the initiatives in this program helpful and should there be more? I'm thinking of the loan forgiveness aspect that's here at least until the end of the year and the matching of $100 million. Can you comment on those points?
Ms. Liew: There are two different ways sponsors can be involved in sponsoring a refugee in Canada. The first is through a sponsorship agreement holder, an organization that has already entered into agreement with the government to sponsor refugees. As you know, the panel indicated that these include churches and other organizations.
In that process, they either work amongst themselves to raise funds or work with a constituent group, which is a group of private individuals to raise funds, put together a plan and indicate how they would help the refugee family settle into Canada, fill out the paperwork and then do a match with the lists that the government releases that have been identified by UNHCR.
The other method is the sponsorship agreement holders or private citizens can identify a refugee family to sponsor on their own. This can be done by contact from Canadians in Canada who have family connections or know of a certain persons who need refugee protection. In that way they will connect with them, collect the important information related to their situation and provide it to the Canadian government.
There are two ways: the UNHCR identifying persons, putting them on a list for persons to sponsor; and private individuals or sponsorship agreement holders finding those refugees and having them vetted by the Canadian government through the application process.
The Chair: You made a comment at the beginning of your remarks about cancellation of these agreements with some of these organizations. What is happening there?
Ms. Liew: Those are the funding agreements. Those are the agreements in place for the government to provide funding to settlement agencies. The concern from some settlement agencies is that in the rush to provide assistance to these refugees, the review of these agreements will not occur. Therefore, the increase in funding that they might receive as a result of inflation or other information might not happen, and these organizations will have to bear the shortfall in the interim. So there is a lot of concern that these organizations are going to bear the burden of going into deficit or having to provide services without the appropriate funding available to them.
The Chair: So their right and facility to support isn't being cancelled, but their normal review and possible increase to cover increased costs might be getting overlooked with all of the other activities going on.
Ms. Liew: Exactly.
The Chair: I understand now.
Senator Wallace: Ms. Liew, obviously you have a lot of experience with both the privately-sponsored and the government-assisted refugees. My assumption would be that the privately-sponsored refugees probably have a better rate or success with integration. Integration is probably not the right word, but finding successful lives in Canada because of that personal connection.
Two questions: Once refugees arrive in Canada, say, under the government-assisted program — and from what we heard earlier, the funding could extend for up to six years — is there ability in the process for any of the 15,000 to then become, once in Canada, privately sponsored? If Canadian families wish to sponsor them at that point, is that possible?
Ms. Liew: The short answer is no. The reason is that once you have a group of citizens who are willing to sponsor a group of refugees, they are pledging to provide financial assistance in the same amount that the government would, should the government have sponsored them. So that means that they are responsible for at least a period of one to two years providing social assistance — a monthly income that is equivalent to social assistance. Instead of the government providing these resources, it's private individuals. That's why private sponsorship is efficient and less costly for the Canadian government to resettle refugees because it takes away the cost of providing that income.
If a group of citizens has committed to this, they will have completed application forms, identified a refugee family and brought them over and then implemented their plan in terms of finding housing for them, getting the children registered in schools, helping them to find suitable employment and things like that.
Once government-assisted refugees are identified and brought over, the impetus for entering into a private sponsorship for citizens is not really there because the government is providing funds for them and the government is referring the settlement services that they need to the settlement agencies that are helping with that.
So there are the two models — the settlement agencies and the government funds, and then the private funds and the individuals helping with the settlement.
Senator Wallace: What strikes me in all of this, aside from the money — we can never ignore the money, but aside from the money — is the success of the refugees' lives in Canada. I hate to use the word "integration." There's a better word, but it's not coming to mind. Integration is going to be determined based on what is actually done for them, what is provided. On the government-assisted side, there are various programs you have highlighted. We've heard earlier — health assistance, housing, all of that.
On the privately sponsored side, aside from the money, are the same types of inputs recognized as being needed by refugees to make a successful transition? Do they match up whether they are government-assisted or privately sponsored?
Ms. Liew: I think you are correct in assuming that persons who come through a private sponsorship may initially have much more help. They will have a group of individuals dedicated to that family only. That's not to say that government-assisted refugees might not receive the same level of support because there are quite a number of settlement agencies, and I have seen this myself is dealing with refugees, who often make very close connections with settlement workers, who often take the place of private citizens. So, in certain circumstances, yes, that could be true. In other circumstances, refugee families come and say, "Listen, we've got all the help we need. Thanks, but we're ready to move on after a few months."
I think it really depends on the family that comes. I think it depends on the group of individuals involved and the settlement agencies and their staff and how dedicated they are.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: I'm just curious: Since you are a lawyer in that sector, do you work with these refugees or the families of these refugees? Are they part of your clientele?
Ms. Liew: Yes, I do work with refugees in my own work. I have connections with the settlement agencies that I've spoken about and represent them through their legal proceedings and often help get referrals for them to different social services and settlement services.
Senator Hervieux-Payette: Who is covering these costs?
Ms. Liew: Often, if I refer them to a settlement agency, these funds are received from the federal government. If it's social services that are related to the province, it's the provincial government. They access the government at very many different points, as indicated by the previous panel. A large number of departments and organizations may intersect during the resettlement process here in Canada.
The Chair: Professor Liew, thank you very much for being here. We very much appreciate it. We know now who is working in this particular area. My guess is that the next supplementary estimates or next year's Main Estimates will have quite a bit of this particular subject involved, and we may have to call on you again.
Ms. Liew: It would be my pleasure. Thank you for your time.
The Chair: Colleagues, I have a motion to go into camera. Thank you, Senator Smith, for that. All in favour? Contrary minded?
We will continue in camera.
(The committee continued in camera).