Journals of the Senate
56 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2007, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 39th Parliament
Issue 78
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Di Nino, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Goldstein, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Pépin, Pitfield, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Di Nino, Eggleton, Eyton, Fairbairn, *Fortier, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Goldstein, Grafstein, Gustafson, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Lapointe, Lavigne, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, *Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Pitfield, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, St. Germain, Sibbeston, Smith, Spivak, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Zimmer
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable Senator Comeau tabled the following:
(1) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Income Tax Act;
(2) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Excise Tax Act relating to the goods and services tax and the harmonized sales tax (GST/HST);
(3) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Customs Tariff relating to the travellers' exemption;
(4) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Excise Tax Act relating to excise taxes;
(5) Notice of a Ways and Means motion to amend the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act;
(6) "The Budget Speech 2007'';
(7) "The Budget in Brief 2007'';
(8) "Restoring Fiscal Balance for a Stronger Federation'';
(9) "Creating a Canadian Advantage in Global Capital Markets''; and
(10) "The Budget Plan 2007''.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-701.
Correspondence between Brigadier-General T.J. Grant, Commander, Joint Task Force Afghanistan, and Mr. Noorzai of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, dated February 20, 2007.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39- 702.
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator St. Germain, P.C., Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples, tabled its sixth report entitled: Sharing Canada's Prosperity — A Hand Up, Not A Handout.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-703S.
The Honourable Senator St. Germain, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Keon, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Kenny, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence, tabled its eighth report entitled: Canadian Security Guide Book 2007 — Airports.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-704S.
The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Dallaire, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Eyton, Joint Chair of the Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of Regulations, tabled its fifth report (Report No. 79 — Broadcasting Licence Fee Regulations, 1997).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-705S.
The Honourable Senator Eyton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Angus, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Canada Pension Plan and the Old Age Security Act, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Grafstein tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-United States Inter-Parliamentary Group, respecting its participation at the Pacific North West Economic Region (PNWER) 2006 Economic Leadership Forum, held in Whistler, British Columbia, from November 16 to 18, 2006.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-706.
SPEAKER'S RULING
At the end of Question Period on Thursday, February 15, while the Speaker pro tempore was in the Chair, Senator Comeau rose on a point of order respecting some questions posed to committee chairs. Referring to rule 24(1)(c), he expressed concern that several questions had dealt with matters not actually before any committee. He argued that such questions anticipate a decision of the Senate and should be ruled out of order.
In addressing this issue it seems pertinent to cite rule 24(1):
When the Speaker calls the Question Period, a Senator may, without notice, address an oral question to:
(a) the Leader of the Government in the Senate, if it is a question relating to public affairs,
(b) a Senator who is a Minister of the Crown, if it is a question relating to his ministerial responsibility, or
(c) the Chairman of a committee, if it is a question relating to the activities of that committee.
As noted in the Speaker's Ruling of May 10, 2006, the aim of Question Period "is to promote the immediate exchange of information about the policies of the Government or the work of a committee.'' As all senators will appreciate, the Senate functions best when its business, including Question Period, proceeds in a courteous and dignified manner appropriate to the Chamber of sober second thought.
In the Senate, it is the tradition and practice that decorum and mutual respect prevail during Question Period, even as issues that can arouse great passion are being considered. It is the norm that senators are respectful in asking questions, providing very brief contextual explanations when necessary. It is also the norm that questions are answered in a similar manner, as is shown by the practice of expressing thanks to the Honourable Senator for the question. In addition, it is the general practice that senators refrain from any disruptive outburst. In the Senate, Question Period is an opportunity to exchange information.
The Rules are clear as to which senators may be asked questions during Question Period. If it relates to public affairs generally, a question can be asked of the Leader of the Government. If it relates to the ministerial responsibilities of a departmental Minister, the question can be asked of that senator. If it relates to a committee's activities, the question can be asked of the chair of that committee. On this latter point, "activities'' can be interpreted generously. As noted in a Speaker's Ruling of November 13, 1980, committee activities include "the specific things that are done by the committee, such as the holding of meetings, the election of a chairman, the calling of witnesses, the hiring of staff, advertising, and any other matter relating to the manner in which the committee conducts its proceedings.'' General issues about planning and upcoming work are included in the broad category of committee activities.
Rule 24 establishes that a very wide range of questions may be posed during Question Period. By contrast, rule 22(4) is quite explicit that Senators' Statements shall not anticipate any Order of the Day. The lack of such a restriction in rule 24 and its broad wording suggest that questions can cover the full range of public affairs, whether or not they anticipate an item on the Orders of the Day. It is also interesting to refer to page 420 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, by Marleau and Montpetit, which notes that the House of Commons has permitted questions anticipating an Order of the Day since 1997.
Going beyond the issue of what questions can be addressed, and to whom, it is the Senate's practice that, if a Senator is comfortable answering a question, he or she should be allowed to do so.
It is well to emphasize that the Senate is, to a considerable degree, a self-regulating House. While rule 18 allows the Speaker to intervene on his or her own initiative to preserve order and decorum, this authority is used with circumspection. In most circumstances, the Speaker's duty is to preside over the proceedings, ensure the orderly flow of debate, and assist the Senate in moving through its daily business. For the Speaker to adopt an interventionist approach would be a significant change in practice that is not often necessary and would likely be unwelcome. The self- regulating nature of the Senate is particularly in evidence during Question Period, since rule 23(1) prohibits the raising of points of order and questions of privilege at this time. In terms of the flow of business during Question Period, the Speaker should not normally interfere.
Another issue affecting the decorum of Question Period, and which needs to be reiterated, is the use of personal electronic devices. They interfere with the sound system and make it difficult to follow proceedings. Once again, all Honourable Senators are called upon to keep these devices out of the Chamber. Even when they are in the off position they can cause static in the sound system.
Returning to the specific issue of the point of order, the questions that were put to committee Chairs on February 15th were not out of order. More generally, however, all Honourable Senators are encouraged to reflect on the manner in which we conduct ourselves in order to ensure that we preserve the useful flow of information that has long been the tradition and hallmark of Question Period in the Senate. In this manner we shall best serve all senators.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Second reading of Bill C-37, An Act to amend the law governing financial institutions and to provide for related and consequential matters.
The Honourable Senator Angus moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gustafson, that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cowan, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 1, 2, 3 and 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Phalen, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day, for the second reading of Bill S-222, An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and to enact certain other measures, in order to provide assistance and protection to victims of human trafficking.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Order No. 8 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, for the second reading of Bill C-288, An Act to ensure Canada meets its global climate change obligations under the Kyoto Protocol.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Eyton, Gustafson, Keon, Meighen, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, Prud'homme, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk—14
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Bacon, Banks, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cook, Cordy, Cowan, Dawson, Day, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Goldstein, Grafstein, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Pépin, Ringuette, Robichaud, Sibbeston, Smith, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Zimmer—42
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Lavigne—1
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, for the second reading of Bill C-288.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Cochrane, Comeau, Eyton, Gustafson, Keon, LeBreton, Meighen, Nancy Ruth, Oliver, St. Germain, Stratton, Tkachuk—14
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Bacon, Banks, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cook, Cordy, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fox, Fraser, Furey, Gill, Goldstein, Grafstein, Harb, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Massicotte, Mercer, Milne, Mitchell, Munson, Pépin, Poulin, Ringuette, Robichaud, Sibbeston, Smith, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Zimmer—44
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Cools, Lavigne, Prud'homme—3
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Trenholme Counsell, for the second reading of Bill C-288.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Cochrane, Comeau, Gustafson, Keon, LeBreton, Meighen, Oliver, Spivak, St. Germain , Tkachuk—12
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Bacon, Banks, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chaput, Cook, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fox, Fraser, Gill, Goldstein, Grafstein, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, Mahovlich, Mitchell, Munson, Pépin, Prud'homme, Sibbeston, Smith, Tardif, Trenholme Counsell, Watt, Zimmer—39
Ordered, That all remaining items on the Order Paper and Notice Paper be postponed until the next sitting.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Government Response, dated February 27, 2007, to the second report of the
Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans Committee entitled "The
Atlantic Snow Crab Fishery'', tabled in the Senate on June 22, 2006.—Sessional
Paper No. 1/39-690.
(Pursuant to rule 131(4), the report and the response were deemed referred to
the Standing Senate Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.)
Report of Correctional Service Canada on Sustainable Development Strategy 2007-2010, pursuant to An Act to amend the Auditor General Act, S.C 1995, c. 43, sbs. 24(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-691.
Report of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on Sustainable Development Strategy 2007-2009, pursuant to An Act to amend the Auditor General Act, S.C 1995, c. 43, sbs. 24(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-692.
Agreements for RCMP policing services (First Nations Community Policing Service) for the provinces of New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia, pursuant to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. R-10, sbs. 20(5).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-693.
Summary of the Corporate Plan for 2007-2011 of Export Development Canada, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-694.
Copy of Regulations Implementing the United Nations Resolution on Iran (P.C. 2007-235 and SOR/JUS-609501), pursuant to the United Nations Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. U-2, sbs. 4(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-695.
Statutes of the Northwest Territories for December 2006, pursuant to the Northwest Territories Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. N-27, sbs. 21(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-696.
Investigation report of the Registrar of Lobbyists entitled "The Lobbying Activities of Neelam J. Makhija on behalf of TIR Systems, Ltd.'', pursuant to the Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence, S.C. 2004, c. 7, s. 23.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-697.
Investigation report of the Registrar of Lobbyists entitled "The Lobbying Activities of Neelam J. Makhija on Behalf of Infowave Software, Inc.'', pursuant to the Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence, S.C. 2004, c. 7, s. 23.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-698.
Investigation report of the Registrar of Lobbyists entitled "The Lobbying Activities of Neelam J. Makhija on behalf of Intrinsyc Software, Inc.'', pursuant to the Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence, S.C. 2004, c. 7, s. 23. —Sessional Paper No. 1/39-699.
Investigation report of the Registrar of Lobbyists entitled "The Lobbying Activities of Neelam J. Makhija on behalf of Wavemakers, Inc.'', pursuant to the Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence, S.C. 2004, c. 7, s. 23.—Sessional Paper No. 1/39-700.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 7:38 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Ringuette substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Baker (March 1).
The name of the Honourable Senator Banks substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Moore (March 19).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The names of the Honourable Senators Fraser, Jaffer and Baker substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Hubley, Campbell and Ringuette (March 1).
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The name of the Honourable Senator Banks substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Callbeck (March 6).
The names of the Honourable Senators Chaput and Zimmer substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Banks and Biron (March 8).
The names of the Honourable Senators Callbeck and Biron substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Chaput and Zimmer (March 19).