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THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS

EVIDENCE

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OTTAWA, Monday, November 25, 2024

The Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights met with videoconference this day at 4:32 p.m. [ET], in camera, to examine such issues as may arise from time to time relating to human rights generally.

Senator Salma Ataullahjan (Chair) in the chair.

[English]

The Chair: Good afternoon, colleagues and Mr. Nair.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we gather is on the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation — and is now home to many other First Nations, Métis, and Inuit Peoples from across Turtle Island.

I am Salma Ataullahjan, senator from Toronto, Ontario, and chair of this committee. Today, we’re conducting a public hearing of the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights. I would like to invite my honourable colleagues to introduce themselves.

Senator Bernard: Wanda Thomas Bernard, Nova Scotia, Mi’kmaq territory, and I’m deputy chair. Welcome.

Senator Senior: Paulette Senior, Ontario.

Senator Osler: Flordeliz Osler, Manitoba, Treaty 1 territory, original lands of the Anishinaabe, Oji-Cree, Dakota and Dene peoples and the homeland of the Red River Métis nation.

Senator Arnot: David Arnot, Saskatchewan. I live in Treaty 6 territory and homeland of Métis.

Senator Pate: Kim Pate, and I live here on the unceded, unsurrendered and unreturned territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe. Good afternoon and welcome.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: Amina Gerba from Quebec.

[English]

The Chair: Welcome, senators and all those who are following our deliberations.

Before we begin our study, I would like to welcome Senator Osler as a new member of the committee’s Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. Welcome, Senator Osler.

Today, our committee will continue its study on aging out of foster care under its general order of reference.

Before we welcome our witnesses, I would like to provide a content warning for this meeting. The sensitive topics covered today may be triggering for some people in the room with us as well as those watching and listening to the broadcast. Mental health support for all Canadians is available by phone and text at 988.

Senators and parliamentary employees are also reminded that Senate’s Employee and Family Assistance Program is available to them and offers short-term counselling for work and personal concerns as well as crisis counselling.

This afternoon we will have three panels. For each panel, we will hear from the witnesses, and then the senators around the table will have a question and answer session.

I will now introduce our first panel, and our witness has been asked to make a five-minute opening statement. Please welcome, from the Peel Children’s Aid Society, Prasad Nair, Director, Youth Success and Innovation.

I now invite Mr. Nair to make his presentation.

Prasad Nair, Director, Youth Success and Innovation, Peel Children’s Aid Society: Thank you so much, senator.

Good afternoon, senators. Good afternoon to the esteemed Senate panel.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I’m grateful that I have the opportunity to be and work in this land, which has thousands of years of history, where sometimes in me being part of a structure has not been fair to the younger generations.

Child welfare has a history that at times is not to be very proud of — I am not — but I see it is an opportunity to rewrite the future by asking some of the most powerful minds in Canada to continue to work together for a bright future.

My name is Prasad Nair, and I serve as the Director of Youth Success and Innovation at Peel Children’s Aid Society, a child welfare agency in the region of Peel, Ontario, that supports vulnerable children, youth and families.

Peel CAS delivers vital programs and services to ensure safety, well-being, and opportunities for success to young people.

I am also the director of the Child Welfare Centre of Immigration Excellence, or CWICE, a national leader in addressing the intersection of child welfare and immigration. The CWICE provides expertise and advocacy for children and youth with precarious immigration status, ensuring their needs are addressed comprehensively.

Specifically related to this part of the study, the key challenges that young people face when they transition out of government care or foster care are: financial instability; mental health and the development needs; inconsistent definitions of who is eligible for services; unresolved immigration status; access to basic services; housing instability; and, at times, the risk of deportation.

Some of the positive innovations that we found to work are providing educational support, not just at the time of transition but from the very beginning onwards; paying significant attention to our educational system; and understanding that young people involved with child welfare have other related trauma or challenges that they face. Therefore, they need to be considered as a priority population within our educational structure to provide adequate services and support.

Another aspect is that case management support for young people should not be cut-off at an artificial age. Right now, across Canada, different provinces and territories have different cut-off ages. In some provinces it’s 18; in some it’s 19; for extended services within some provinces, it is 21; and in some other provinces, it is 23. Having consistency to ensure that a specific age limit at which help can be accessed would be highly beneficial.

From a policy recommendations space, a universal definition of youth services should be brought forward and then designating young people transition, children in care and children in care transitioning out of care as a priority population. It is not just to ensure funding. It is also for meaningful resource allocation within our social services, including housing, legal and mental health services, trying to find further investments within integrated mental health and housing support, and also, free education and skills training.

When providing services, we need to ensure that those services are culturally appropriate. Also, we must consider that young people come to the attention of the child welfare mostly because of other system failures at one time or the other. Therefore, rather than creating changes at the crisis point, policy‑makers need to look at upstream investments and how we’re going to do them. That also includes investments in immigration and settlement.

In closing, I will say that youth aging out of foster care deserves not just survival; it should be more than that. It should be hope. It should be providing spaces for young people to belong and be proud of. They deserve an opportunity to thrive. It is our collective responsibility to close the systemic gaps that leave them vulnerable and ensure they have access to the resources, services and opportunities they need to succeed. Addressing housing stability, mental health support, free post‑secondary education and unresolved immigration status are crucial steps toward this goal.

Thank you for the opportunity to address you all on these critical issues. I look forward to your questions and to further supporting this important work. Thank you.

The Chair: Thank you. I will now turn to senators for questions. Just a friendly reminder that we have five minutes for both the question and answer. I will start with the deputy chair, Senator Bernard.

Senator Bernard: Thank you, chair.

Thank you, Mr. Nair, for being here, and thank you for your opening statement and the acknowledgment that a service such as child welfare, which is meant to be helpful, has been harmful to many of our children and families, as well as the call to action for all of us to do better. I appreciate that.

I recall that you were at the Senate for our study of Bill S-235. You were one of our witnesses, and we were quite impressed with the work you were doing at Peel. It’s wonderful to have you here with us again now.

I wonder if you could say a bit more about some of those upstream investments. If you had a magic wand and you could create these upstream investments, what would they be? And secondly, if there are some innovative things you are doing at Peel, we would love to hear about them.

Mr. Nair: Thank you, senator. I wish I had a magic wand, but I think rather than getting into a magical framework, from a realistic space, when we are talking about providing hope to our young people, it is about building trust. It’s not about policy; it’s about the implementation of the policy that matters.

A simple example is we invest a lot into the recreation aspect or into recreational spaces, thinking that young people will actually be there. What we are trying to do within Peel Region is to create these recreational spaces where young people are attracted to go and where we are able to provide other services that are related to housing, mental health, education and financial literacy. Rather than offering programming such as investing in financial literacy, if we could consider this from an integrated service delivery framework and bring these services together where young people can access them with few barriers, that is what we need to aspire to. Every service provider needs to invest in that.

Even within the funding framework we have — we are provincially funded — we have raised money through private foundations and also through our community to create a youth centre for our young people and then bring these services into that space where it is low barrier, where young people are part of the developing service delivery and are able to provide feedback on what they love and what they don’t like. It is when we work with them through a youth council and a youth advisory framework that we start seeing changes happening.

Senator Bernard: Does this recreational centre belong to Peel Children’s Aid or does it belong to the community? Who operates it?

Mr. Nair: Peel Children’s Aid Society operates it. It’s called the Trailblazers Youth Centre. It was actually named and conceived by our youth council. Our youth council actually came together and said they wanted a place to belong. They want a place where they can feel comfortable, not be judged, and where they feel that it’s okay to be vulnerable. They want a place where they can see people with similar backgrounds or similar stories, where it’s not about trauma-focused therapy but where people come together, learn about each other and manage the trauma.

We have child and youth workers. We have social workers too. We’ve incorporated and integrated those services within the recreational framework. We have a partnership with the MLSE Launchpad, and we bring sports programming into the space. I’m a social worker, and if I have a conversation with a young person about what transition to adulthood is going to look like, chances are that I may not get a good grip. Whereas if there is a basketball program, a hockey program or even an arts program and then during the program, if we are able to have these conversations, chances are that the young people will feel validated, and then they may sit down and have these conversations with us.

But again, it’s an uphill struggle. That’s why I say I don’t want us to forget the upstream investments that are needed. The best thing we can do for our young people is to avoid them coming into care altogether. Our families should be supported within their own communities.

Senator Pate: Thank you. Building on your response to Senator Bernard’s questions, I want to ask if you could elaborate, please, on the urgency of the measures that Bill S-235 would introduce. If you have any estimates regarding the number of children who are in that situation now, whether it’s in your agency or if you know more broadly for Ontario and Canada, how many have left care without citizenship? How many have ended up being deported, if you have that data?

Mr. Nair: Thank you so much, senator. I think it’s an important aspect. One of the challenges last hearing within this Senate committee, we mentioned that there is no centralized data collection space. That’s something that’s lacking.

The service of the Child Welfare Immigration Centre of Excellence is voluntary. There is no mandate that the child welfare agencies must work with us in providing adequate support, but within the knowledge that we have and our ability within the province of Ontario, we assume that it’s in and around 14 young people. The reason is that it’s private information, but I think we see around 14 young people whose statuses are in challenging situations.

One thing that I want all of us to be aware of, we only come to know about it when a problem occurs. Whereas if nothing happens — we know situations of a young person who has been in Canada for their entire life and nothing happened, so we always thought that they are part of Canada — there is no other country that this young person knows. Then an unfortunate situation happens, and all of a sudden, we start realizing that some paperwork was missing. That’s where Bill S-235 becomes an important aspect.

If the child is here, and we are caring for the child, then we definitely have a moral and ethical obligation to ensure that that young person continuously stays in Canada.

Senator Pate: Is there anything currently, as young people are leaving care — even a tick box — to see if they have citizenship?

Mr. Nair: In the past couple of years in the province of Ontario a regulatory framework was established so that the children’s aid societies have to ensure that the immigration status of young people leaving care needs to be addressed. However, I’m not aware of a similar arrangement across Canada.

Senator Pate: Thank you very much.

Senator Arnot: Thank you for coming today, sir. You have over two decades of experience in child welfare counselling and leadership, and you’ve talked to us tonight about housing instability and financial literacy as being barriers.

I’d like you to tell me what kind of innovative housing programs or partnerships you believe could be implemented in Peel, or any other place in Canada, to support youth transitioning to independence? I’d like to know what the best practices are and where they exist. Maybe they exist in Peel — I don’t know — but I’m just wondering what your answer to that question would be.

Mr. Nair: Thank you very much, senator.

I’d love to say that we have a fine-tuned program, but the reality is that we don’t. We know it exists across Canada as a result of our search for what will work for our young people.

One of the programs is working with the community to ensure that we have boarding space where young people can have a meal, receive a space in which to stay and then continuously move through the transition.

One thing in all the programming that I want us to think about is this: A young person who is living in care, which means that they are in a home until they turn 18, all of a sudden, have to be out. There is no protection mechanism that is emotionally structured for the young person. That’s the part — that mental health support — which is needed.

I’m from Peel. It’s probably considered the outskirts of the Greater Toronto Area, or GTA, but, at the same time, it’s highly expensive. The government pays $1,850 for an 18-year-old who transitions out, and that’s for the first year. But in the second year it diminishes, the third year it goes down, the fourth year it goes down, and so on. By the time the young person reaches the age of 23, there are not enough resources for that young person to continue to afford housing. Within the housing structure, rather than creating a shelter, we need to have opportunities for these young people to have meaningful ownership. That’s what I meant by having housing options.

Senator Arnot: Is there anything you can tell us about financial literacy and how that works, as a model of best practice?

Mr. Nair: Within Ontario’s regulations, financial literacy is part of transition planning. From our experience, it’s not just about teaching them how to count money or how to do A or B. It needs to go beyond that. One program we are currently piloting is about helping our young people in the business environment, helping our young people to become entrepreneurs and starting small-scale businesses. Those types of investments also need to be placed, along with post-secondary support and providing support to them to enter trades.

Senator Arnot: Thank you very much.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Nair.

In 2019, the Ontario government eliminated the Office of the Provincial Advocate for Children and Youth. Complaints from children in care are now investigated by the Ontario Ombudsman. What do you think were the consequences of that elimination?

[English]

Mr. Nair: The question is about the Child and Youth Advocacy Office and the government’s decision not to renew that office, but instead, moving the responsibility to the ombudsman. Since it’s more of a governmental decision, I’m not going to comment very much on it, but my thought process is that we need to amplify every space where a young person can independently voice their concerns. I’m not saying that it needs to be a specific name, but I’m saying that spaces need to be created.

In that process, if we are not consistently keeping such spaces for our young people, it can create mistrust within the system. Now that the authorities have been moved to the ombudsman office, in that office, the hope is that it will consistently provide a space for our young people to voice their concerns.

Recently, the Ontario Ombudsman has released a report on Mia’s story about a young person who had challenges finding housing and the recommendations that they made to the sector. Such effort needs to be continuously made so that the children’s voices are being captured and transferred to the sector appropriately.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: We have heard from previous witnesses who think there should be a federal advocate for children and youth. Do you think it would be a useful decision to have this type of advocate for children leaving care?

[English]

Mr. Nair: Let me return to my previous response. I am all for constructing structures. I am all for creating systems. However, creating too many systems is not helping our young people. Even within Ontario’s child welfare system, the regulatory framework is being managed by several spaces: the ombudsman, the financial office and the ministry. I’m here with 23 years of experience in the field. The more we create oversight and structures in managing the various aspects of operations, the more challenges it will pose. So far, oversight has been all about paperwork. It’s moving into bureaucracy. Then what happens is that it’s taking time away from our frontline social workers, from the actual work that needs to happen, which is one-to-one work with our young people. It’s relationship building, providing space to belong and providing a space for them to feel that they are worth something.

On that note, I will say that I completely agree that having a body of national oversight is helpful, provided that the provincial and territorial bodies have to work closely with that national body. Otherwise, like everywhere else — in housing we see it — different layers of government have different priorities, and, depending on the government of the day, the chances and challenges that they can also face can have a negative impact on our young people.

Senator Gerba: Thank you.

Senator Osler: Thank you very much for being here. You talked about the experiences of youth and children who are new immigrants or have precarious immigration status. I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about that and in particular how they experience the process of aging out of care. You had already mentioned some gaps in education and housing. But as you touch on that, can you tell the committee if you have any thoughts on what the federal government could do?

Mr. Nair: Regarding immigration, the federal government should have an appropriate system to capture how many young people whose immigration status is in a challenging situation even if that includes a number of unaccompanied and separated children actually arriving in Canada. Depending on the port of entry, depending on where they are, the services are very localized. From that point, having a centralized system or a database of young people, something similar to that of the U.K., will be something Canada can consider. So that’s part 1.

Part 2 of that answer is that the immediate thing to be done is related to Bill S-235 which is currently at the House after second reading and we don’t know what the future of the bill will be. If all of us can continuously work together to see that bill becomes an act, this would definitely resolve some of the immediate challenges.

Senator Osler: Thank you.

Senator Senior: Thank you, Mr. Nair, for being here. I appreciate your thoughtful responses. From your lengthy experience, I would like to get a sense of what has been the most successful transition of a young person out of care that you have seen and what were one or two key factors that contributed to that?

Mr. Nair: The most successful transition experiences happen when we are able to have a family member attached to that young person. At this moment we have a community that is connected to that young person. In my experience, it is very clear that the faster we are able to connect a young person in care with a family member or their community, the faster they become resilient. The success rates are very high. The younger people are placed in kin homes, the higher the chances are that they will get into school, complete their post-secondary, find meaningful employment, or get into spaces where they become productive citizens. Human beings are social animals. We need connection. That connection needs to be encouraged and nurtured. If we don’t provide that nurturing environment, that is where the challenge will come in.

From a policy space, I have continuously argued for the past several years that if the ministry, the government, spends money on foster care, I’m not saying no. Let’s continue. But similarly, we should have a family support plan where a grandmother, aunt or distant relative is caring for a young person, and we should support them financially while they do this so that there will be more family members and community members available to care for our vulnerable young persons.

The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Nair. I was fortunate enough to visit your youth centre. It was very impressive when you had a young person who had just come out of foster care speak. I was impressed by how focused she was. We are talking about success stories. Do you think there are countries which have gotten this right? That is they have a good program that works, and which Canada could learn from?

Mr. Nair: In my own research, I don’t think there is one country able to resolve it because it is communities. Icelandic countries have a better social services system and a better system for helping transition-age youth. It is not that diverse of a culture, or have other aspects that we consider from a Canadian perspective. There are good things we can learn from those countries, and from the U.S.A. and U.K. In different jurisdictions, there are better things that are happening. Even within Canada itself, there are fantastic practices that happen. One of the things that we are very proud of is the Child Welfare Immigration Centre of Excellence. Similar practice frameworks within Canada need to be enhanced and adequate resources needs to be provided to those internal innovations.

The Chair: Thank you. I think we could have spent a whole hour with you, Mr. Nair, but we are out of time. I want to thank you for your help with this study.

Honourable senators, I shall now introduce our second panel. Our witnesses have been asked to make an opening statement of five minutes. We shall hear from the witnesses and then turn to questions from the senators.

With us at the table, please welcome Amber Moon, Youth Advisory Committee Member, Vancouver Aboriginal Child and Family Services Society. Also with us at the table, from CHEERS Mentorship for Youth in Care, please welcome Anayah de Andrade, who is the founder. With us via video conference, please welcome Daniell Sunshine.

I now invite Mx. Moon to make their presentation followed by Ms. De Andrade and Ms. Sunshine.

Amber Moon, Youth Advisory Committee Member, Vancouver Aboriginal Child and Family Services Society, as an individual: [Indigenous language spoken]

Hello, my name is Amber Moon, it’s nice to see you all. I use they/them pronouns. I am Nlaka’pamux, Siylx and Kwakwaka’wakw. I live on the unceded lands of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh nations known as Vancouver in British Columbia. I would like to thank you for inviting me to speak to you today on the unceded territories of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people.

My area of expertise on this subject is lived experience. I am part of the Vancouver Aboriginal Child and Family Services Society Youth Advisory Committee, or YAC, and have been a member since 2017. I will first highlight some of the work that we do on the Youth Advisory Committee, and then talk about my experience of aging into community, the services that I access and how they have helped me or could be improved.

The Youth Advisory Committee believes in a strength-based approach to advocacy. One of the most significant aspects of our advocacy work is our focus on relationship-based practice in social work. This approach prioritizes trust, meaningful connection and consistency between youth and their social workers. For youth aging out of foster care, these relationships can make a world of difference. They are not just about accessing services, they are about having someone who truly sees and values you as an individual, and someone who understands your history, your culture and your goals for the future.

Relationship-based social work helps youth build a solid foundation of trust and stability, which is essential as they transition into adulthood. Aging out of care can often feel like being thrust into the unknown without a safety net. Social workers who practise relationship-based care serve as anchors, helping youth navigate this transition with guidance, reassurance and advocacy. For Indigenous youth in particular, these relationships can also help connect them to their culture, their community and their identity, which are crucial components of healing and resilience.

The YAC also advocates for the expansion of post-19 services. As we know, the journey toward independence does not end on someone’s 19th birthday. Many of us are asked for input during the development of these supports. For example, we contributed to shaping the SAJE program for youth attending post-secondary.

Although my life and time in foster care were difficult, I believe that I have been quite lucky in my experience. I was put into foster care at the age of seven, and I remained there until I turned 19. At 17, I transitioned into independent living, and I have been in subsidized housing ever since. I do not know where I would be today without subsidized housing. I am 26 now, currently in university, and on the tuition waiver program as well as SAJE.

SAJE is the new and improved support that has replaced Agreements with Young Adults, or AYA. While it is more comprehensive, there is still room for growth. For instance, the funding is only available to those under the age of 27. I took a long break from post-secondary education due to the pandemic and the loss of my dad, and I know many other youth face delays in their education due to personal barriers or systemic inequalities.

Funding for students attending post-secondary should extend beyond 27 and last for the entire duration of a degree. If someone qualifies for a tuition waiver, they should also qualify for financial support throughout their studies. I also believe that youth across Canada should have equal access to these kinds of supports. The level of assistance should not depend on where you live but rather on what you need to succeed.

I will end by emphasizing this: Relationship-based social work is not just about improving individual outcomes; it is about creating a system that recognizes the humanity, strength and potential of every youth in care. By investing in relationships, we create opportunities for youth to age out of care with the confidence and support they need to thrive. Thank you.

The Chair: Thank you.

Anayah De Andrade, Founder, CHEERS Mentorship for Youth in Care: Good afternoon, everyone. Imagine a world where every young person, regardless of their walk in life, steps into adulthood with confidence, stability and hope — a world where youth aging out of care are not merely surviving, but thriving. They are building careers, creating meaningful relationships and contributing vibrantly to their communities.

My name is Anayah De Andrade. I am a former youth in care and founder of the CHEERS peer mentorship program for youth aging out of care.

In this world, when a young person turns 18 or 21 and transitions out of care, they do not walk alone into an uncertain future. Instead, they are surrounded by a supportive ecosystem that uplifts, empowers and prepares them for independence. In this society, opportunity meets compassion, potential is nurtured and no young adult feels abandoned simply because they’ve aged out of a system that is meant to protect them.

In this vision, youth aging out of care have access to stable, safe housing — not just a roof over their heads, but a home that fosters security and belonging. They live in neighbourhoods where they feel valued, where landlords and communities understand their unique journeys and offer a hand instead of judgment. Housing becomes a stepping stone to independence and not a barrier to overcome.

In this society, where education is accessible and achievable, post-secondary institutions open their doors with tuition waivers and mentorship programs, recognizing that education is a pathway to self-sufficiency and a powerful catalyst for confidence and resilience. Programs like CHEERS flourish, bridging the gap between aspiration and achievement, and help youth turn their dreams into degrees and diplomas.

In this world, youth transitioning out of care have employment opportunities tailored to their strengths. Employers big and small invest in these young adults, offering internships, training and careers that provide more than a paycheque — they provide purpose. Financial literacy ensures they can manage their earnings, plan for the future and break cycles of poverty.

Mental health is no longer an afterthought but a cornerstone of this thriving ecosystem. Accessible counselling and peer support groups help these youth process trauma, build resilience and forge healthy emotional pathways. Every young adult has someone to talk to, whether a mentor, a counsellor or a trusted friend, ensuring no one faces their challenges alone.

In this society, foster youth become leaders, advocates and change makers. They use their lived experiences to shape policies, mentor others and inspire a generation that believes no challenge is insurmountable. Their voices are not just heard; they are amplified and celebrated.

Perhaps most importantly, in this world where we, as a society, have shifted our mindset, we no longer see aging out of foster care as a finish line for the system but as a transition point where our collective responsibility begins anew. Families, educators, policy-makers and businesses all come together, united by the belief that every young person deserves the chance to thrive.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a distant dream. This is the society we can create together. The programs, policies and partnerships we envision and implement today will shape this brighter future. By investing in youth aging out of care, we are not just addressing a social issue; we are unlocking untapped potential, creating stronger communities and building a more equitable nation.

Thank you.

The Chair: Thank you. Ms. Sunshine, please go ahead.

Daniell Sunshine, as an individual: I am so honoured to be here today with you all. I thank the people of this land, I thank all the leadership in this room today and I thank all our delegates and speakers who are on each panel. I am forever grateful for this opportunity.

Thank you so much for the welcome and invitation to speak with you all about a matter of great importance, one that affects thousands of vulnerable young people across Canada. Today, I address you as a young person with lived experience, having once been a permanent ward of the government. As I share my experience with aging out, I hope to shed light on some of the issues faced by youth aging out of foster care and the urgent need for systemic change.

I was placed in foster care at the age of 2. I endured a lot of trauma and hardships throughout my childhood, such as sexual, physical and emotional abuse. By the time I was 17, I was struggling with severe mental health challenges, including major depressive disorder, social anxiety and PTSD. During that time, I had to deal with being kicked out of my family’s home, concerning which, to date, they apologized for not having an adequate understanding of mental health and supports in place.

Being kicked out resulted in me living in homeless shelters, as no one is willing to foster a teenager. That same year, my biological mother overdosed, all while trying to finish high school and the reality of aging out of care with no familial connections and no plans for the future.

Research and experience have shown the importance of social support and mentoring programs for youth in care. These programs provide valuable guidance and stability, but also a relationship.

However, that need is far greater. It is essential to move away from isolated services and aim for more holistic, integrated approaches that address not only their practical needs but also their emotional and social well-being. Rather than offering services and programs in isolation, we must create and implement integrated service models and frameworks that address multiple needs at once.

Providing the funding and training for this wraparound approach can help ensure that youth receive the comprehensive supports they need and can help with their independent living skills.

Another major issue in our system is that Canada does not have national standards for youth leaving government care. Currently, a major guideline that each provincial government uses to determine whether a youth ages out is an age indicator, and that can vary for each province and territory. Having no national standards for youth leaving government care puts youth at a greater risk of falling behind their peers and through the cracks. The inconsistency creates a gap in the support available to youth based on where they live. I strongly believe the federal government should work to standardize the age range for youth aging out across the country. Extending it or removing it altogether could help ensure that all youth aging out of care have equitable access to the resources they need to transition into adulthood more successfully.

Furthermore, there should be greater flexibility for youth to move between provinces and continue accessing the support they need. Some youth in care may experience trauma related to their geographic location or circumstances, and having that ability to relocate without losing access to service can offer them a fresh start. This can give youth in and from care the same opportunity to move across the country as their peers and pursue what they want to pursue.

In addition to that, a lot of extended service agreements are not accessible to all youth who age out of care, as eligibility is often contingent upon employment or attending school full-time. British Columbia has set an exemplary standard by providing support to youth up to the age of 27. Recently, they adopted an unconditional income supplement of $1,250 a month for youth from ages 19 to 20. I strongly believe that adopting this policy at the federal level would provide a safety net for all youth aging out, allowing more support and the financial security they need to pursue further education or training, stabilize housing and achieve independence, without the burden of immediate conflicts.

I also want to address the importance of inviting more youth into these important conversations. If we are to create real and everlasting change for youth aging out of care, we must actively include them in the decision-making processes and conversations. Their lived experiences are so valuable and treasured. Their perspectives can help shape policies and programs that are more effective and truly responsive to their needs. We need to create more opportunities and encourage more youth to take leadership roles in shaping the present and the future. Their participation and engagement in the design and implementation of the policies are so meaningful as this will directly impact their lives.

Canada’s youth can provide and contribute powerful insights to the conversations around foster-care systems, and we must make more space for their voices. We need to ensure that they have a seat at the table. I urge us all to think beyond the traditional approaches and recognize that the inclusion of more youth is not only essential to creating better outcomes it also fosters the system that directly impacts them.

It is imperative that we recognize the unique challenges faced by youth aging out of government care and take meaningful steps to address these issues. By creating a more consistent, integrated and supportive system, we can ensure that these young people, my friends and peers, can succeed and thrive just like anyone else.

I personally do not think this is a provincial, case-by-case issue but, rather, a national crisis.

Thank you so much for your time, your attention and your commitment to making change for vulnerable youth across Canada.

The Chair: Thank you all for your presentations.

Senators, just a friendly reminder that you have five minutes for questions and answers. If we have time, we can always go to a second round. I will turn first to our deputy chair.

Senator Bernard: Let me start by saying thank you to all of our witnesses. You are examples of youth aging out of care who are not simply surviving but thriving. I particularly admire your ability to give back to your community. It is really commendable.

So what’s my question? It is this: What truly works? What has worked to give you the space that you have needed to not simply survive but to thrive?

I would like all three of you to answer that, please, if we have time.

Mx. Moon: I can start.

As I said in my opening statement, I strongly believe in relationships — having, creating and maintaining relationships with social workers and any other support people. It has been extremely helpful. My social worker is actually in the room right now and has been supporting me to come here and speak today. I think it has been seven years since I turned 19, and we still have a relationship.

I have relationships with other social workers in situations where I wasn’t even on their caseload. They helped me in any way that they could.

In my housing, I also have relationships. There is a youth program within my housing. I have a relationship with the person who runs that and is now transitioning into the CEO of the housing company. She is basically like a mother to me. Having this support is very helpful, because when I run into any issue I have within housing, or in life, I know I can turn to them and they will help me to make sure my housing is secure, or I get help on a paper I’m writing for school. It has helped me a lot.

Ms. De Andrade: For me personally, it started with my placement. I like to say my experience in care was not the norm. I was placed in a good home. To this day, my foster mom’s name on my phone is saved as “Mama Bear.” I am in my mid-30s. I didn’t get my own Costco card until three years ago, because I used her Costco card.

It started with my placement. In my placement I had a lot of options in terms of the type of relationship that I wanted to have with my foster mom. I was given the freedom to, some days, call her “mom,” some days to call her by her name. That allowed me to explore and feel safe with other adults and forms of authority in my life.

Aging out was beyond difficult, because I was one of those kids who was highly independent. At 17, I was prepared to be on my own. The gap there was I was doing well because I was in a safe and supportive environment. That was the piece that was missed there.

Luckily and thankfully, I did find a lot of support outside of the youth in care system, I would say. I had a lot of support within the system. As I grew up, there were limitations in what I could access. I was able to find supports, as I said in my speech, in the community as a whole, whether I was accessing community-based services or meeting folks at work, peers at school or my friends’ parents.

That’s where I ended up with the idea for the CHEERS program. I was working and my manager was someone I respected who was highly regarded within the organization. I ended up finding out she was a former youth in care. You would never know.

Exposure to possibilities, meaningful community integration and freedom to be oneself without fear of judgment, because as you’re growing up, you are discovering yourself and you make a lot of mistakes. When your relationships are conditional on being good, you never truly discover yourself, or you find other ways to be oneself.

I have been fortunate to have people both within the system, starting with my placement within the community, including landlords that I’ve rented from, who gave me the space to grow up, make mistakes, pick up the pieces, show me how to pick up the pieces and continue to push me forward.

I was propelled forward by the greater society I existed in.

Ms. Sunshine: I want to reiterate having the impact of a social connection. I also have a social worker I still keep in contact with and check-in with monthly. Having the sense of permanency of having someone there beside you, cheering you on and not giving up is highly beneficial and impactful. I would have moments where I would be looking down on myself, but having them pick-me-up, cheer me on again, reminds me I am not alone and I can do what I can do.

I also think having a transition period as well, like a program based on readiness where you want to transition out of foster care. This can help with IDs, preparing your taxes, knowing how credit cards work. I personally had to figure all of that out by myself with some help. Having a program to help build these skills is crucial for one’s success.

Senator Osler: Thank you to all three of the witnesses here today. My question is for all three of you. Perhaps we’ll start in the same order you did last time.

This committee was asked to imagine a system centred on well-being where every child and family had what they needed to thrive. Imagine a system infused with love and respect.

I’ve been thinking about how one can transform a system that’s in place while minimizing disruption and harm to the people who are already in the system.

Based on your experiences, could you share some of the foundational first steps that you would recommend to create a better system centred on well-being?

Ms. De Andrade: Human services. Going from a service recipient to a service provider really opened my eyes on the challenges of human services. This is human services we’re talking about. It’s not easy. It is possible.

In terms of how to transform this system with minimal disruptions, let’s talk about the population who is benefiting from the system; without disrupting that part, think about the concept of change management. How do we approach change management? We start with the low-hanging fruit.

In this case, what is the low-hanging fruit? It is those most vulnerable youth you have had the privilege to hear from, and the service providers who are on the frontlines day in, day out. I would say start with the low-hanging fruit. Start with the greatest need.

It has been highlighted, I would say from reports dating all the way back to the 1980s until today, it is housing, education, mental health services and financial supports.

I would love to talk about pilots. Pilots do have a place, and scaling those pilots. By having the evidence-based services, improving the models, then we start to replicate and scale as needed.

There won’t be a one-size-fits-all. It’s not a cookie-cutter approach, because we are so unique in our needs, dynamic and intersectional. It’s necessary.

I used to be very stubborn. When I was younger, I was taught you will only change when the cost of staying the same is higher than the cost of changing. We are at that crux of the cost of staying the same is higher than the cost of changing. We don’t really have an option. In terms of how to start, it is the low-hanging fruit.

Senator Osler: You mentioned national standards for young people leaving care, age-based cut-offs versus readiness cut-offs, unconditional income supplements for youth aging out. Is there an order of precedence or should all of them be considered at the same time?

Ms. Sunshine: I believe all of them should be considered at the same time. I feel like one step is better than no steps at all. If it is better to implement one thing at a time and work from that, it’s better than doing absolutely nothing.

I do think unconditional income supplements would be very helpful as a lot of my friends and peers are maybe falling through the cracks at this very moment. Having the stepping stone of the financial stability can help promote their growth and their success into adulthood. I think addressing them at the same time is very important.

Senator Osler: Thank you.

Senator Pate: Thank you very much to each of you for being here and for sharing. I can’t even imagine. I had the privilege and responsibility of working as a — I think they called me — an adult adviser to the national-youth-in-care network and of starting a few youth-in-care-and-custody networks over the years. It’s always struck me the challenge of you having to disclose your life story to help us improve the situation of other people. Most us have choices about whether we do that or not. I want to echo those of my colleagues of thanking you for doing that. It doesn’t come without cost, and I hope that you feel that we have recognized that.

You’ve provided excellent testimony and great suggestions on how we move forward. I’m always struck by how many resources are put into taking kids out of care. I don’t know if any one of you are comfortable talking about what might have made a difference before you ended up in care if different supports had been provided. How that might influence how we move forward from here? What opportunities should there be for people like yourselves to provide advice when kids are being considered for being taken into care? It’s always struck me that we have no end of resources to take kids out of their homes but don’t necessarily put those resources into those homes when it’s appropriate.

I don’t want to pick on any one of you, but if any one of you or all of you have comments, I would be grateful to receive them.

Mx. Moon: I can answer a little bit. I think just my parents getting some extra support would have been helpful. My dad had brain damage from an accident that he was in when he was younger, and he was an amazing parent. My mom was also an amazing parent before I got taken into foster care, but afterward, things really slipped for her, and she went really hard into addiction. I think if they had just had more supports before and if someone had really just made sure that they had everything that they needed, and for my mom, more mental health support.

My dad was deemed incapable of looking after children on his own, but I believe that if he had been given support to look after us on his own or if somebody had been able to check in — I’m not sure exactly what that would look like — but I think we would have been able to live with him and still have a fairly good life because being a parent was really important to him, and his kids were the most important thing in his life. He did have some memory issues, but he never forgot anything that had to do with us.

I think that being labelled as incapable of looking after children on his own was unfair to him. I think he was capable.

Senator Pate: Thank you.

Ms. De Andrade: I would start with cultural awareness. Different isn’t bad. I think for the longest time, if we speak on the diversity of youth over-representation in the system and we really look at the reasons underlying why those youths were brought into care, I feel safe enough to say a lot of it was attributed to differences in cultures and misunderstanding. I would say that we as a society are not necessarily at a place where we understand that different is not bad.

Starting with the education awareness, we pride ourselves as being diverse and multicultural, that it’s our strength and that we are a nation of immigrants, but are we truly a nation of immigrants, and is diversity really our strength when we look at families and decide the way that they’re bringing up their children is bad because it’s different from the expected norm?

In terms of supports, I would say the education and awareness of cultural diversity, and then supports that are available or should be available for those families because let’s look at the supports that we give to foster parents or kinship parents. Why can’t we divert that to existing families?

I also think about a conversation I facilitated with the Catholic Children’s Aid Society social workers about their own experience as parents and how chaotic their homes are at seven in the morning in the winter with three or four kids and trying to get them to put on their snow boots, snowsuits and mittens while getting their lunches prepared. The fussiness that comes with children. When we look at those experiences and we deem people to be an unfit parent because a child went to school without their hat or their mittens, but if we look at it as how those things come about and give more benefit of the doubt — not negating the fact that negligence and abuse do happen — and ask: How do we truly arrive at those conclusions?

To summarize the two points, the first is to understand diversity and culture differences and not assuming it is bad because we don’t understand it, and the second is to understand the journey of a parent.

Ms. Sunshine: I want to talk about putting protocols in place for when a youth is taken out of their family home. I want to touch on providing additional support for the parents, for the family.

These intervention programs could be parenting programs on how to be a parent. They could be working toward sobriety. Having more programs helping the parents to bring back their child into their homes, I feel as if this would have made a huge difference in my life but also other youths’ lives. Having those protocols in place, I think they take the child out of the home and don’t bother looking back to the biological families or kin and ask why they were taken out. I think we have to further explore why they were taken out and start at that point and work on figuring out a solution to fix it.

Senator Pate: Thank you.

Ms. De Andrade: When we look at the cycle of youth entering care and existing care — not just through my experience but also my peers and those who have streamed through the CHEERS program — toward the end of their journey in care, you find a significant amount of effort from the system in trying to do a family reconnection. If we put that effort in family reconnection from the beginning, then we would not have to work so hard to bring it back together once it’s been torn apart.

Senator Senior: I’m so glad you added that last piece, because I’ve been sitting here with the response to my question from the previous panellist and my question about successful key factors and the response around kin. I must say I had a mixed reaction to that response, probably because I have a good friend and sister-in-law who was in care. She’s a social worker, but today she runs an extraordinary organization for families. But that experience lives on, and the part of it that pains her most is the family. That’s the part that pains her the most. That’s probably why I had this mixed reaction, because it’s great when families work, but when they don’t, they remain pain points.

My question is: From all your responses, it seems as if you have defined family differently. Could you comment on what that means to you?

Ms. De Andrade: Options. It started with allowing myself to have options. Some days it has been my biological family. In my opening remarks, I talked a lot about the greater community that has supported me and carried me. I still think about my Grade 11 biology teacher sometimes. Just giving myself permission to have options, because you are right. Sometimes biological family can be a pain point. I have had really good people in my life who told me that I have options and I have autonomy, and I’m allowed to decide when I want to pick up my phone, when I want to identify as part of the family and when I don’t, or when — and it’s all okay. It ebbs and flows. It evolves. It is all okay. It does not have to be a stagnant definition. You’re so right.

I think the healing in that and the anchor in that for me and the youth that I’ve worked with is when you look beyond your family and you understand that everybody’s family dynamic is just as crazy if not crazier than yours. So then you’re like, “Oh. Okay, I guess I’m not the only crazy one in the room.” So I can choose.

Mx. Moon: For me, family is more people who love and support me unconditionally and allow me to be myself and give me space for anything that I need and allow me to open up and come to them and feel comfortable enough with them to be able to do that. As I mentioned my social worker here, the person who runs the program in my housing. I also have my best friend’s family that treats me as their own, and sometimes we joke that I am his mother’s favourite child. But I have had many teachers in every single school that I’ve been in whom really support me and believe in me and what I can do.

There are many people who are not biological family that definitely make me feel like I’m family to them, even though I have had experiences with family. I lived in one of my aunt’s house as a foster. My aunt was my foster parent, and it was the worst experience that I have had. So family is definitely more, to me, what you choose rather than what you were born into.

Senator Senior: Thank you.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: I thank our witnesses for being here and sharing their very touching experiences. That’s very important.

Ms. De Andrade, you talked about a pretty important element, which is the education of immigrant parents who arrive in Canada. When people arrive in Canada, it’s hard for them to understand the system, and there’s nothing to tell parents how to talk to their children. I imagine that’s also why immigrant families are overrepresented, as they arrive in an environment they don’t understand, and there’s no system to help them figure out how to deal with their children, unlike in their own country.

Since we’re in a multicultural country, do you think one of the solutions would be to set up an education system for newcomers?

If so, what kind of a system would it be? How would you go about making it universal across the country?

[English]

Ms. De Andrade: I’ll start with this: I understand why immigrant parents or immigrants tend to gravitate toward their communities. For example, I was born in Angola, and my first language is Portuguese. When my parents came to Canada, we lived in all Portuguese areas and had all Portuguese landlords. It was safe. My mom was also very curious, so she did venture out and made friends of all different cultures, but in terms of where we lived and resided, it tended to be those neighbourhoods because it was safe and had cultural similarities. When you are a newcomer to the country, it’s already a huge hassle to pick up your family and move to a new society, to a new country.

In terms of educating parents, I would say the responsibility would be a shared responsibility. It’s not easy for newcomers to get settled, find meaningful employment and deal with the cost of living and such. I also believe that as a country, we pride ourselves as being a nation of immigrants, and we have a responsibility to do outreach into these communities and support co-integration. Not necessarily newcomers integrating into Canadian society and not necessarily Canadian society changing completely to integrate — it’s a co-integration. It’s a co‑responsibility and a shared culture, because there are strengths that come from parenting norms from different cultures that we — if we call it a typical Canadian background or culture, we don’t have and we can learn from, just like there are strengths that come from the Canadian society and way of parenting. So how do we get the best of both worlds, and how do we integrate both?

To answer your question, yes, it would be great to have an educational program. I would say we would be cautious on the expectation of one dominant culture versus the other and look at how we bring the best of both worlds and co-integrate and share that responsibility.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: Mx. Moon, you spoke about the SAJE program, from which you benefited. Could you tell us more about the positive aspects of this program and how it could be improved? Would you say it’s a program that needs to be expanded across Canada?

[English]

Mx. Moon: Yes. The Strengthening Abilities and Journeys of Empowerment, or SAJE, program has only recently been implemented in B.C. We used to have a program called Agreements with Young Adults, which would provide financial support for former foster youth attending post-secondary.

I have been on both programs, although I only started the SAJE program in September, but I also helped a little while they were developing the program. Since it is still very new, I think it would need a bit of time. It provides funding for me for rent, food, clothes, and I can also request extra funding to help support with textbooks occasionally.

But I think that it should be across Canada that youth get this financial support. I believe it should be extended further. As I said, it currently goes until somebody’s twenty-seventh birthday, but many people are in post-secondary for longer than their twenty-seventh birthday. I believe that if they are in school, they should get financial support for the entire degree. It is very helpful because I don’t have to worry about working as well as being in university, which does take quite a bit of my time. I’m unsure if I would be able to support myself if I had just a job and being in school.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: Thank you.

[English]

The Chair: Senator Arnot, would you like to ask your question?

Senator Arnot: That’s fine. I think this has been an excellent panel. I don’t have any questions.

Senator Pate: Much of my working life has been with people who were failed by the child welfare system who did not go on to thrive. I have done a lot of work with young people and adults in the prison system. It is the rare person in jail who has not been in the child welfare system.

What do you see as the points where different interventions could result in different end places? I know it is a huge question, but if you have any suggestions I would be most appreciative.

Mx. Moon: That is a very big question, but I have never been in that system, but I believe that if youth get a lot of support and feel valued, it can prevent them from entering the prison system.

This is not quite foster care, but I did recently watch a video talking about somebody who was involved with the law, and, from a very young age, they were judged, and that judgment led to them stealing and feeling that they weren’t worth more than being a criminal. Eventually, they did kind of turn their life around, but I think without that judgment for that person, they would have avoided having that life of crime from a young age.

There is not much more that I can personally say on that. As I said, I don’t have experience in there, but I think just having stability, support and feeling supported.

Senator Pate: Thank you, Mx. Moon.

Ms. Sunshine: I personally don’t have experience, but to prevent more youth going is investing in long-term trauma informed services. Being trauma-informed can help prevent such cases, and I want to reiterate what Mx. Moon was saying. Being met with compassion, love, patience and understanding — meeting youth at their level can help save lives.

For example, I was surrounded by crime and poverty. I was surrounded by that, but people not giving up on me and reinforcing me with positive affirmations — I used to be bullied and called “goody two shoes” for not indulging in these activities — I believed what people were saying and they gave me the confidence to strive and do what I’m doing today. I think having that reinforcement and building more trauma-informed services can help youth.

Ms. De Andrade: I’m going to guess that if you ask a lot of the youths who have interacted with the youth justice system what their first touchpoints with the system were. If they were in care, were the police called because they were an hour late for their curfew and reported for AWOL? Or because they were having a bad day and slammed the door, or there was a conflict between the youth living in the home that wasn’t necessarily violent, but the staff, if it is a group or foster home, didn’t know how to manage? So it’s looking at what the entry point has been and how we can intervene.

The second point would be how we teach young people to channel feelings. Feelings are valid. How do we channel them? As a woman, I learned how to deal with the anger of social injustices related to being a woman and having permission to be angry but then also finding places to take that anger. There are many ways. Through that process I learned that I have many options on how to express my anger. I would say having options is important and also intervening in the entry points that young people have with the justice system very early on in care.

The Chair: Thank you. I want to take this opportunity to thank each one of you. We have learned from your wisdom and strength. What a privilege it has been to have you here. Thank you.

Senators, just thinking back to the witnesses we have had today, Mr. Nair, the previous witness, spoke about the importance of family support and investing in a family support plan. That’s what we are hearing from you too, so I want to thank you. Your testimony, what you have said and what you have shared with us will help us when we get ready to write the report.

I shall now introduce our third panel. Our witnesses have been asked to make an opening statement of five minutes. We shall hear from the witnesses and then turn to questions from the senators.

With us at the table, please welcome Keauna Moulaison, Planning Alternate Tomorrows with Hope, or PATH, program participant; and Lanell Murphy, PATH program participant. I now invite Ms. Moulaison to make her presentation, followed by Mr. Murphy.

Keauna Moulaison, PATH program participant, as an individual: My name is Keauna Moulaison. I’m 20 years old, and I’ve been under the care of youth services since I was 15. I am in my fourth year of studies at Queen’s University in my Bachelor of Science with honours degree, majoring in life sciences and specializing in cancer research under the biomedical discovery sub-specialization.

My experience in foster care wasn’t the stereotypical journey often shared by others, such as those who enter at a very young age or move from home to home. Many have experienced far more challenging situations, but that does not mean my journey was easy.

My father passed away from melanoma in the fall of 2018 when I was 14. My younger brother and I initially moved in with a family friend, and social services ware not informed of the situation. This family friend had then decided that this was not working for her and asked my younger brother and I to leave. I entered youth services the following fall, at which point I had more trauma than I had started with because of the second upheaval.

Shortly after, COVID and all its complications for children in care began. This marked the beginning of an entirely new chapter in my life, a chapter filled with uncertainty, grief and fear. In some ways, I was lucky. I remained with one foster family who remain part of my life today, but transitioning from my family, home, routines and rules to living in someone else’s house and adapting to a new way of life was incredibly difficult, especially since I was older when I entered care, and shortly after entering care, COVID disrupted everything.

Grieving my father’s loss, the loss of my old life, and this transition into care all at once was incredibly terrifying. All the structure, security and reassurance I had once known seemed to vanish overnight. For the first time, I felt as if I had no control in my life. I had to develop a new level of independence, one I was unprepared for. Life skills I hadn’t been taught became hurdles, and even now, I am still figuring out how to navigate this new level of independence.

My foster family was incredibly understanding of the grief and instability I experienced during this time. They accepted me for who I was, even when I struggled to process everything happening around me. My foster mom treated me like her own, offering me unconditional love and unwavering support in everything I did. She made me feel valued and seen, celebrating my accomplishments and ensuring I was included in every holiday and milestone. This provided me with a sense of belonging.

The transition to foster care was difficult, but the love and acceptance I found within my foster family made all the difference. They gave me a sense of stability and belonging that I desperately needed, and I am eternally grateful for that, but there were still moments when I felt lost. Decisions about my life were suddenly in the hands of strangers, and it was hard to adjust to that.

Everything happened so quickly, and I was left in the dark while strangers discussed my case, making it difficult to process everything that was happening. Building trust with social workers was especially difficult because I was constantly assigned new ones. Just as I began to form a connection, it seemed they’d be replaced by someone else.

One of the most significant adjustments was dealing with all the budgets and financial processes that come with being in care. I wasn’t used to having strict budgets in place to support me, let alone having to wait for the submission and approval of funds to receive things I needed. This created delays and frustration that I was not familiar with. Suddenly, I was required to report all aspects of my life to people I barely knew, and this felt invasive and overwhelming. I had so much grief and trauma built up but felt uncomfortable sharing this with people I had just met, so I struggled with all these internal emotions with no outlet.

I recognize the incredible work and good intentions of social workers, but they are overloaded with cases, making it impossible for them to provide undivided attention. Responses to my questions or needs would take time, and I quickly learned that I couldn’t rely on them in the same way I once relied on my dad. Instead, I had to figure out many things on my own.

This struggle became even more apparent when I transitioned to independent living. I had to develop budgeting skills — something I had yet to gain experience with. Learning to manage money was difficult, especially when inflation caused living expenses like groceries to skyrocket. Often, the limited funding provided by the agency was not enough to cover all of my basic necessities, and I developed an eating disorder as I was so stressed about budgeting and food was so expensive. However, receiving PATH funding has been a tremendous help in addressing these challenges. This biweekly financial support has provided a more consistent source of income for necessities. With this additional funding, budgeting has become easier and I’ve been able to better manage my expenses without constantly worrying about how to make ends meet.

PATH funding has been life-changing for me. It has alleviated some of the financial stress of trying to stretch a limited budget to cover everything from groceries to school supplies. The consistency of this funding has allowed me to focus more on my education and personal growth rather than constantly struggling to meet my basic needs. I feel a sense of financial stability, which has made an incredible difference in my overall well-being. But in a few months, I will lose access to mental health care, with the loss of funding for this. My university coverage will not allow many visits, nor will it allow for me to continue with the therapist I have a trusted relationship with. If I could recommend anything, it would be for this to be considered as an essential element to continue funding for.

Foster care has shaped me in ways I couldn’t have imagined. It challenged my resilience and forced me to grow in ways I wasn’t ready for. While I’m grateful for the stability I did have, the experience was anything but easy. It was a mix of gratitude and grief, of learning to trust and finding my strength during the chaos. Thank you.

Lanell Murphy, PATH program participant, as an individual: Good day, respected senators, staff members, guests and fellow speakers. My name is Lanell Murphy, and I am a young, Black Nova Scotian youth living in East Dartmouth but rooted in Halifax, North Preston and Beechville. I appreciate the support of the PATH Program. It’s been helping me in so many ways. I am empowered with the opportunity to be independent, accomplish goals I set for myself and take my education to a higher level in part due to the financial assistance available from this program, which lessens the stress and worry of how things will be paid for.

When circumstances arose that my younger brother and sister were placed in my aunt’s care, I decided to leave home as well and live with my aunt, who gave us all a home. Thankfully, my aunt is department staff. She reached out to her resources to find the information to help me, but when she reached out to the social worker about support for me and my older brother — I was 17 and my brother was 18 — she was told my brother and I were too old and there was no support available. As you know, opportunities can often be harder to come by for young people like us, and there can be a lot of barriers to overcome.

I am grateful to be able to volunteer in the community with BLM In this TOGETHER and the many events they put on, which helps me keep my wellness on track. Helping myself as well as others to navigate systems, break barriers and dismantle anti-Black racism is a big focus for this volunteer work.

I also love to work out, walk and run. These are my outlets. The annual timed run-walk is definitely a highlight for me. I volunteer and participate. My whole family is involved in the walk. My siblings even trained and ranked first place and top three in many runs.

This organization offers easy accessibility because it has little to no barriers. All programs were free and held on a bus route. I am thankful for BLM In this TOGETHER society. To show my appreciation, I give back by volunteering at many events, including the Wednesday night wellness walks at the track.

My aunt kept looking for support and financial help beyond what she could help me with herself, like the extra things I need in regular life. It is a hard enough situation, but it was even harder at times because of having to search for information or fight for supports that we as citizens should be entitled to have or access. She eventually found out that I could apply for income assistance, and she helped me do that. This was a long process, and took many months but we didn’t give up, and I was eventually approved. My aunt helped connect me with prevention and early intervention support. My family and I were connected to the Boys and Girls Club of Preston’s resource centre, which enabled me to connect with my father’s community and rebuild connections with many of my family. The financial program I completed and received a certificate and it was very beneficial. I learned a lot of things like how to save money and invest my money right. My siblings still attend prevention and early intervention programs at the Boys and Girls Club of Preston and North Preston Family Resource Centre.

Imagine if my aunt hadn’t learned about prevention and early intervention, and she just took “no supports available” as a final option. I imagine that I wouldn’t be connected to so many supports, nor reconnected to my extended family members in the Prestons.

I accomplished other goals, too. I had always wanted to take drivers education, and the funding allowed me to complete that program, and I now have my driver’s licence. My aunt is currently helping me get a used vehicle, which will make it easier to get back and forth to work, which will enable me to help my aunt in taking care of my younger sister and brother. I will be able to take them to appointments and other activities, which has been challenging at times for my aunt in the past because she does a lot on her own since she instantly went from being a single person to being single with dependents. I want to try to help out and contribute as much as I can. I’m currently in school taking the home inspection course at Dalhousie University, and having the licence and car will also help me get back and forth to study at the Dalhousie library when necessary.

After so much effort was put into getting approved for income assistance, at one point it was taken away because of the course I was taking at Dalhousie University. This was a bump in the road before I started the course. When dealing with the employment support worker, she told me the course I was taking wasn’t on their approved list, and therefore financial assistance would be discontinued. The employment support worker told me I would have to drop the course in order to continue receiving income assistance. I paid for the course with the money I earned from a summer job and income assistance was helping me with my living expenses.

I was disappointed with the decision. To say I was upset is an understatement. I turned to my aunt, and it didn’t sit well with her, either. She looked into it further and found out that the decision could be appealed, so I appealed the decision and had a bit of a win. While I wasn’t able to get any financial help with my course, the income assistance was reinstated. This did cost me time that I could have used on my course instead of spent fighting to keep what was already approved.

These are just some of the life lessons I am learning about resilience, responsibility and overcoming obstacles. Our adverse circumstances have been stressful, and being a part of the PATH Program is a good thing that came out of it. The PATH Program has also given me the ability to help with other things financially, like groceries and bills. I’ve taken over my cell phone bill from my aunt. She paid my bill for years, and I truly appreciate this, but now I can learn some responsibility and how it feels to pay for my own things. Occasionally, I treat my family to take out, and it feels good to be able to do this, give back to my aunt and help in looking after my younger siblings, which means so much to me.

It has helped me to be proactive with my dental health and book regular appointments, as I had booked an appointment with the dentist last year but decided to cancel and put it off because of the cost. With financial assistance from the program, I was able to follow through with maintaining my oral health.

I find the check-in with the youth outreach worker very beneficial. She helped me to update my resume and apply for jobs. Because of this support, I’m currently employed. She has been very supportive, and I appreciate all her efforts.

I also reached out and inquired about the program for my older brother. The program has helped me so much, I wanted the same for him. Now he is also in the program, and he is empowered to reach his goals in his life as well.

In conclusion, the PATH, program has been a valuable asset in my life, helping pave a new path, one that shows that, even in stressful situations, there are always reasons for hope. I hope that sharing my story can help share the value of such programs.

Thank you for your time.

The Chair: Thank you, both, for your presentations. We will now proceed to questions from the senators.

Senator Bernard: Thank you, both, for being here. As a proud Nova Scotian, let me say that you have represented our province well here this evening. Thank you.

I heard about the PATH program, and I know it’s relatively new. Stacey Greenough, Director, Child and Family Wellbeing, Department of Community Services was here. When we started this study, she was one of our first witnesses. She said that the PATH program has three primary goals: one, creating environments that are safe and healthy; two, creating a positive connection to community; and three, providing equity opportunities to access the supports needed to thrive and reach your full potential.

Ms. Moulaison, I know that when you transitioned, the PATH program wasn’t in existence. So, you would have entered the PATH program as you were already in university. I wonder if you could each tell us from your experiences whether PATH is meeting these three priorities.

Ms. Moulaison: As you said, when I originally transitioned, I didn’t have PATH funding in place. This came about last year. I went through the first two and a half — almost three years — of my university without this additional funding.

As I mentioned in my speech, unfortunately, I ended up suffering with an eating disorder, because food is so expensive, eating healthily is so expensive, living is so expensive and everything surrounding it is so expensive. I was limited to a given budget each month. I had to make it last for the entire month. I had to make it through the 30 days. It would be fine for the first week or two, but then as the month goes on, you start to have less and less money, and you don’t know if you should go and buy groceries because what if something else comes up and you don’t have these emergency funds?

With PATH being implemented, I notice an extreme difference in my mental well-being, education and personal relationships. There have been many improvements because I’m no longer carrying this burden of stress, of how I am going to afford to live this month, of how I’m going to afford to eat this month, or whether I’m only going to eat one or two meals a day instead of all three because I can’t afford to buy enough food.

To go back to the three goals of PATH, I believe they are accomplishing this. The check-ins are amazing, as Mr. Murphy said. They ask you questions, some of which are a little uncomfortable, but it’s so that they can know whether you’re okay and to ensure that, if you need supports in certain areas, they can guide you to those supports.

However, in my scenario, I live in Ontario during the year for school. I’m not in Nova Scotia. So, I can’t access some of these programs, supports or options that they have for me while I’m here in Ontario, because they don’t have the same programs or supports available to help me.

That’s still a little bit of a juggle. Community relationships are still something that could be worked on. Today was my first time ever meeting someone who is also in care and who isn’t my brother. I’ve never met someone who has gone through something similar to me, and for so many years, I’ve felt as if there’s something wrong with me, that I’m an outsider and that no one understands me, which is related to all the stigma that surrounds kids in care. You don’t want to tell that to just anyone. You hold that close to you and wait until you can trust the right person to share these experiences with, someone who is going to get it, not someone who is going to look down on you and think that you need to be pitied or treated differently. I say this because I don’t believe my experiences define me as a person. Yes, it is part of my story, but don’t define who I am today.

One thing with the PATH program — not necessarily with the PATH program, but just foster care in general — there should be more events, programs and events to have us meet people who are also going through things that we’re going through. I also feel that, as you get older, it’s so much more isolating because you’re trying to navigate this whole new ballpark of life, and you feel so alone because you don’t know so many things, and you think you should know all these things, and everyone else around you knows them because they’ve had people guiding them all of their lives. Just today, I’ve only been here for 12 hours, and it’s made a significant difference for me to hear other people’s stories and know that I wasn’t alone.

Senator Bernard: Thank you. I love the fist bump. Mr. Murphy, do you feel that the three objectives of the PATH program are working for you? How do you feel that they are working for you in your experience? These three objectives are as follows: creating an environment that is safe and healthy, creating a positive connection to the community and providing equitable opportunities to access supports needed to thrive and reach your full potential.

Mr. Murphy: For me personally, I started on the PATH program back in April, which was a few months ago. In April, I tore my Achilles in my right leg while playing basketball. Before that, I was paying for my schooling by working. After I tore my Achilles, I couldn’t work because I was in a cast for two weeks and then I was in a walking boot with crutches. I couldn’t work because I did construction work.

If I hadn’t had the PATH program, I wouldn’t have been able to pay for my schooling. That was perfect timing for me to be accepted by that program. That’s one aspect that helped me reach my potential, because I wouldn’t have been able to pay for my schooling. It helps with community because it just takes a lot of stress off of you, learning how to pay for anything, because with that money coming in, you don’t have to worry about where anything will come from. Now, I feel secure because of the PATH program. I also feel that my environment is better because I have peace of mind knowing that I don’t have to worry about money. When I first started, I couldn’t work at all, but I could just work on my school. I didn’t have to worry about where the money was going to come from. I knew I was good. That’s where it helped me.

Senator Bernard: Yes. I know you both do a lot of volunteer work, and, Mr. Murphy, you volunteer with the Black Lives Matter movement, and they have this annual walk on Emancipation Day. You reminded me that that’s where we first met. I was the oldest person walking — and a little running too. Tell me why that’s important to you to volunteer and give back?

Mr. Murphy: I feel that it’s important, because, when people see me coming to the community, here is this young guy volunteering. I’m coming with a smile, and I’m happy to be there. It gets the community together. It’s a fun event. We even had a barbeque afterward. You remember the first one. That’s where I met you. We had a barbeque after. There were a lot of playthings like face paint. I was going to come in the top three of the run, but I ran the wrong way for the route. That’s what I remember about that race.

Ms. Moulaison: Volunteering is very important to me, because, since my dad’s passing, I have struggled with self-love, acceptance of my story and believing in myself. I have many moments when I doubt myself, and I feel like I can’t accomplish what other people can.

I volunteer with many elderly people and children with intellectual disabilities. They’re also struggling with those feelings of not believing they fit in, that they can accomplish what they want to accomplish or need a bit of extra love and an extra shove in the right direction. “You can do this. You can accomplish what you want to accomplish.”

I think that’s the main reason why I started volunteering. I originally started volunteering when my dad was diagnosed with melanoma. I formed a Relay For Life team as captain in memory of him, and we continued it after his passing. I continued it because I remember he was in the hospital when I first started it, and this huge group of friends and I got together. We walked these laps for hours in the pouring rain, and I sent him so many pictures of us all doing it. He just cried. He was so happy, and he felt like he meant so much to many people. I really do think it helped him put up a fight and feel like his life was worth fighting for.

I just want to continue making those differences in everyone else’s lives.

Senator Senior: Thank you, Mr. Murphy and Ms. Moulaison. It’s great that, even though you have just met each other, you have formed this team approach to this experience.

I hear the benefits of the PATH program. You’ve both had such different paths yourself. I’m wondering what remains a gap that you still want to be able to address in terms of what your aspirations are.

Ms. Moulaison: For me, since I am graduating this year with a Bachelor of Science degree — I still have some more schooling to go but, in Nova Scotia, it’s typical to only cover one program. I can apply to try to have another program covered, but it’s uncertain, so I have to plan to cover my remaining school on my own and figure out how to apply for loans and grants, and all the adult things I don’t know how to do right now.

I’m 20, but I still don’t know a lot. I’m still learning.

Senator Senior: [Technical difficulties]

Ms. Moulaison: This year I have been trying to advocate and almost shout for help to prepare me for this transition, to enter adulthood and for this whole new level of independence all over again. It was a new level of independence transitioning into care and then transitioning into independent living, but it’s going to be a whole new level of independence doing this transition again.

Like I said, social workers are overloaded with their caseloads, and it’s hard to just focus on those one-on-one interactions. They really just want you to come to them and say, “I need exactly this, this and this,” but in my scenario, I don’t know exactly what those supports or programs I need to have offered to me because I don’t know much about the real world.

For me, that is a remaining gap. The workload of the social worker is affecting the relationships they have with us. Then there is how that’s further affecting us. There is us trying to move into the future and adulthood.

With typical families, you have your parents there every day. You’re with your child every single day. You’re pushing them every single day, every step of the way. With us, we have check‑ins every few days, every week, every few weeks, every few months — it can vary. For me in Ontario, I hear from my social worker maybe once a month. It takes weeks to get answers.

It takes multiple people to go through to try to figure things out. It’s a long process. I don’t have much time. June is coming soon — my graduation is coming soon — and I don’t want to be scrambling at the end trying to figure out ways to help me; I would rather figure that out now so I’m not so scared for this transition.

Mr. Murphy: For me, I would say it’s like moving. My home inspector course doesn’t end for another year and a half, so my gap would say “moving more.” Right now, I think I want to move to a full-time job, because my job isn’t full time. So I think I want to move to a full-time job and continue to work on my online studies at the same time. I just want better time-management skills.

With the support of my worker in Nova Scotia, she could help me. Just talking to her, I could get help. When I was first applying for jobs back in July, which was when I could start working again — because my walking boot was off — I got a part-time job. Right now, I’ve been working there, but I need to start saving up some more money. To be a home inspector, I need a work vehicle. That would be the next step I would have to take: saving up for that work vehicle. It is just working full time, I think, because I have to get used to that again.

[Translation]

Senator Gerba: Thank you very much for being here today. You’ve both talked about the obstacles when it comes to mental health, obstacles that you’ve both identified. Ms. Moulaison, you even talked about an eating disorder you’ve developed and are still struggling with. I wonder if there’s anything that could have been done, in your case, to improve care, particularly concerning mental health.

You talk about difficulties accessing your social worker, whom you see once a month. If you had one or two recommendations to make in that regard, what would you recommend for this study?

[English]

Ms. Moulaison: One of the recommendations is the funding of private mental health services. I currently see a private service therapist. She’s not public service. I have been seeing her now for many years — probably three or four years. She’s great. I don’t trust anyone else.

I went through a long process when I first went into care. I tried the public health options. I tried group therapy. I tried psychiatrists. I tried psychologists. I tried many different therapists. I tried eating disorder specialist therapists. I tried so many things.

It took a lot of trying and meeting new people. Unfortunately, it means having to tell your story over and over again, which is very difficult. However, it got me to the point where I could find someone with whom I finally felt comfortable and whom I finally trusted and can open up to completely now.

In my scenario, I have now been told that as a part of independent living we’re only supposed to be accessing mental health resources through the public health services, or through our university services and things like that. So I know it’s come into conversation with me that, in January, technically, I should no longer be covered to see the therapist I’m currently seeing, which is hard. It’s hard because you form a deep connection. I’ve been seeing her for years, and now, all of a sudden, you want me to go and do the whole process all over again of talking to person after person telling my story over and over again and reliving that trauma to find someone else I’ll finally trust?

It’s very important to have the funding for mental health services, because everyone is different. It’s going to be different for everyone as to whom they feel comfortable with. For me, my eating disorder got so bad that my therapist could no longer help me and I had to go see a specialist who knew this area and really helped me and gave me strategies to help improve my eating. That greatly helped, but it’s obviously a private service.

So I don’t think there should be a limitation on the services we can access. It should be what works for us and what is improving our mental well-being.

I forget the other part of the question.

I just think that advocating for the mental health coverage is crucial. Many kids who enter care are full of trauma. Our lives have not been easy. We have all had hardships. Even the general public — that’s the thing: Mental health has become increasingly prevalent in society today. The world itself is a scary place. We have pandemics, isolation and things happening across the world. It’s just a terrifying world to live in. It’s a huge step to get an individual to go talk to someone and to want to get help in the first place, and I think if they’re willing to take that step, they shouldn’t be limited in whom they can access this from.

Senator Gerba: Can you add something?

[Translation]

You talked a lot about your aunt and family support. Would you like to recommend anything, as part of this study, in relation to family support?

[English]

Mr. Murphy: I think a good support you could give to families would be family events to bring up morale and stuff.

For me, there are these programs. We always had events we would go to. Let’s say, for example, we would go to an arcade. It would be my family and a bunch of other foster children, and we would just go, and we would have fun. We would go bowling.

Last week, for example, we just went to a hockey game, the Halifax Mooseheads, and I feel like those types of events raise morale and get you to feel like you are a part of a family when you’re hanging out with everyone. You could help by putting more events and doing stuff with the kids just to raise morale for them.

I find that if you’re doing things outside the house, it makes you feel happier. If you’re feeling unhappy, that could just help your situation. That’s what I think.

Senator Gerba: Thank you.

Senator Pate: Thank you very much to both of you for being here. I was going to ask a question, but you’ve already been asked some of those questions. I want to, instead, offer support, if we can.

When you mentioned what you’re going to do now for your second degree, I would like to suggest — and I’ll speak for myself, but I suspect other colleagues may join in. I’d like to suggest you put in that proposal as soon as you have time to do it and copy it to some of us. I’ll put my name forward, because I’d like to know why they wouldn’t support you to do this.

It’s an investment, not just in your future but the future of many others that you would be wanting to do this. I’d like to strongly urge that you put that in, that you request the direction of what else you need to do to get that support and copy as many of us as you feel comfortable. Certainly, I would like to be copied, and I would like to follow up, because there is a great deal of discretion in most provisions that would allow you to be supported in that way.

I think of the argument made in family law now, when you have someone who has capacity, parents can’t even negotiate away the rights of children to have that kind of support, so social services and child welfare should not be permitted to negotiate away your right or to regulate it away. It is just an offer.

The same would go for you, Mr. Murphy, in terms of your work and wanting to have support. Whatever we can do, feel free to copy me on something like that, and I would be happy to follow up.

Ms. Moulaison: Thank you so much. I could cry. That feels so nice to have a room full of people that I’ve just walked into, who are willing to do that for me, because it’s hard to do. How are you supposed to accomplish your goals and try to work for a future and get the education you need, when you can’t work full time, and you can’t go to university full time? It just doesn’t work.

For me, now that I’m done an undergraduate degree, I will be going into graduate studies, where there are things like placements. It’s just a lot more of a course load, and with the cost of living right now, it’s impossible to do it all on your own, even with tuition waiver. The cost of living is way too high. The stress of school is already enough. It’s adding to the mental load, I think. Speaking for a lot of kids in care, we already handle a lot of that.

I think trying to do whatever we can to minimize that mental load is very important. Thank you.

The Chair: Mr. Murphy, would you like to add something?

Mr. Murphy: I feel like you guys supporting us is amazing, to be honest.

I fly here from Nova Scotia into a room with a bunch of people who are supporting us, just listening to us talk and being really appreciative. It’s amazing to see.

Senator Bernard: I’ve been a social worker for almost 49 years. I started as a child. I’ve never worked in child welfare, but I have worked as a parents’ advocate. I have worked in providing supports, programs and resources to families. I’ve done that upstream work that our first witness talked about in community.

One of the things that I always believed in and always helped parents believe in is not accepting a “no,” so I want to support what Senator Pate is saying.

You apply for something, and someone says, “No,” you appeal it, and you appeal it again. If it helps to say you have some senators backing you, then count me in.

I am where I am because people believed in me when I couldn’t believe in myself. I am where I am because people gave me opportunities. People opened doors that were otherwise closed to me, and I’ve made it a life’s mission to do that for others.

You have gifted us this evening by your presence, by sharing your stories and by being brave enough and courageous enough to respond to an invitation from the Senate of Canada. We need to do what we can do to help you reach the next level.

It’s not just about you reaching your full potential, but creating the conditions for every child, every young person, to reach their potential. That’s what we’re after, so thank you.

The Chair: We have come to the end of our session.

As I’ve been sitting and listening to you, Ms. Moulaison, I see a confident young woman, and for you to share your story with us and let us into your life and let us know what you’re afraid of, I thank you for doing that. I know that’s not easy.

Mr. Murphy, you have this amazing sense of responsibility of wanting to do better for your family. I’m so proud of all the young people we saw today and the stories that you shared with us, and I think I speak on behalf of all the senators that for us this has been an incredible afternoon and evening, and I want to thank you.

I know you’re going places, both of you. Thank you for sharing that story, and thank you for all your help.

It’s been very powerful just sitting here and taking it all in. Most of us are parents, and we realize what goes into bringing up a child.

To your aunt, a big thank you from all of us, because the one thing we heard is that the family support means so much, and you’re living proof of that.

Senators, we’ve come to the end of the testimony. We will suspend for about five minutes, and we will move to our in camera portion.

Thank you very much.

(The committee continued in camera.)