Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Agriculture and Forestry
Issue 7 - Evidence - Meeting of February 26, 2008
OTTAWA, Tuesday, February26, 2008
The Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry met this day at 6:58 p.m. to examine and report on rural poverty in Canada.
Senator Joyce Fairbairn (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Good evening, honourable senators and witnesses, and welcome to those who have tuned in to watch the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry's hearing on rural poverty and rural decline. This evening's witnesses are here to talk to us about criminal activity and policing in rural Canada.
Judging from the nightly news, crime would appear to be mostly an urban problem. Drugs, prostitution and property crime seem distant from our everyday impression of rural Canada as a place where people rarely lock their doors, leave car keys in their vehicles and generally look out for each other in an informal, neighbourhood watch sort of way.
In many cases, these stereotypes hold true. However, as the committee heard in travelling from coast to coast, rural poverty and rural depopulation are unravelling the fabric that has given rise to Canada's reputation as a rural nation, as a place of low or no crime.
With us tonight to talk about these issues are representatives from two police forces with large rural mandates, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Ontario Provincial Police. From the RCMP, we have Michel Aubin, Director, Drugs and Organized Crime and Marcel Lebeuf, Senior Research Officer; and from the Ontario Provincial Police, we have Mark Allen, Inspector, Manager, Crime Prevention Section, Investigation Bureau.
We have two hours, colleagues, to cover a wide array of issues with these three gentlemen. I would invite my friends to keep their questions as brief as possible, to allow our witnesses to respond fully and for everyone to be able to contribute to the discussion this evening.
We thank you so much for taking the time to join us. It may seem like a strange place to be, but you are very welcome here, and we know that you have stories to tell.
Michel Aubin, Director, Drugs and Organized Crime, Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Good evening and thank you very much for inviting us here. As you mentioned, I am the director of Drugs and Organized Crime for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. As such, I am responsible for overseeing the delivery of the enforcement activities in relation to these areas for the RCMP.
The drug enforcement side of the program is composed of investigative units across Canada, including specialized marijuana grow operations — or grow-ops — and clandestine lab teams strategically located across the country.
On the organized crime side, the RCMP leads 13 enforcement teams specifically tasked with investigating criminal organizations. These are fully integrated teams comprised not only of RCMP members, but members from other municipal and provincial law enforcement agencies as well.
These teams target the highest levels of organized crime within their jurisdictions. While these teams are located in urban centres across Canada, they also have province-wide responsibilities. The teams are committed to intelligence- led model policing embraced by the RCMP and larger Canadian law enforcement agencies.
These investigators rely on intelligence reports prepared by the RCMP criminal intelligence teams across the country, as well as the Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, CISC, provincial bureaus and intelligence units of the participating agencies.
Concerning the presence of organized crime in rural areas, there are a number of public reports that speak to this fact. Indeed, with vast resources at its disposal, organized crime is able to penetrate legitimate social and economic structures, giving it the potential to wreak enormous damage on the fabric of Canadian life in rural areas. However, I hope to provide some clarity to this issue by highlighting law enforcement's awareness of how organized crime penetrates rural communities and what we are doing to counter this threat.
In general, organized crime concentrates its activities in the most populous and economically solvent areas of the country. The primary hubs are the lower mainland in British Columbia, Southern Ontario and the Greater Montreal Area. In addition to proximity to supply routes, these areas are also where the majority of market demand is found.
Concentration of criminal organizations tends to decrease as population densities decrease. However, organized crime does exist in rural areas. Many local and provincial organized crime groups, while relatively small and unsophisticated compared to the more traditional groups, can have major impacts on the communities in which they reside.
Most groups do not base their operations in rural areas, but their impact extends into these areas through the commodities they sell, such as drugs and counterfeit goods, and through their presence while either transiting goods or dealing with their consumer base.
Intelligence and enforcement activities have found that criminal organizations are also linked to rural areas through the establishment of indoor and outdoor marijuana grow operations. Wooded areas in secluded sections of cultivated fields are often selected due to the low cost of real estate and the protection offered by the location's remoteness. For this evening, I will allow my colleague to speak more extensively on the issue of marijuana grow operations in rural areas. The RCMP's national statistics on rural marijuana plant seizures note an increase between 2002 and 2004, with numbers remaining relatively stable through 2007.
In some communities, organized crime also manifests itself through the presence of street gangs. Cells of larger, urban street gangs and, to a lesser extent, new street gangs are being identified in smaller urban centres, rural areas and Aboriginal reserves. Canadian street gangs are primarily involved in activities ranging from graffiti, theft and drug trafficking to the sex trade. In some instances, street gangs may also use violence and intimidation to achieve their goals.
According to the 2006 CISC annual report, street gangs are on the rise in rural areas and Aboriginal reserves. However, it is unclear if this increase is real or the result of enhanced police reporting.
I would also like to take a moment to highlight the opportunities that present themselves in boom towns. The oil industry, for one, has injected enormous wealth into previously small, isolated communities. The booming diamond industry in the North has brought similar success. With this increased wealth comes increased opportunity for criminal organizations to infiltrate these communities.
Through enhanced intelligence gathering and integrated law enforcement efforts, we are aware of the threats that may present themselves in these boom towns. The RCMP and its law enforcement partners, along with municipal, provincial, territorial and federal governments, are working hard to combat these threats.
I have already mentioned that the RCMP has 13 integrated and intelligence-led organized crime enforcement teams located across Canada. These teams were mainly implemented over the past five years and are our answer to the issue of organized crime across Canada.
The RCMP also established a First Nations organized crime response program in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec. In fact, the Quebec model has had numerous successful investigations targeting criminal organizations that directly impacted Aboriginal reserves in the province of Quebec.
In Quebec and Ontario, as the RCMP is not the police force of jurisdiction, the RCMP participates in integrated teams led by provincial or municipal agencies that also target criminal organizations. As an example, in the province of Quebec, the Sûreté du Québec has teams, and, in Ontario, we participate with the teams led by the Ontario Provincial Police, OPP.
Investigations conducted by the RCMP-led teams, while focusing on criminal organizations that may be based in large urban centres, often include investigative components that reach out to the rural areas. Within RCMP detachments in rural areas, our members are trained to conduct investigations and, in many instances, manage human sources, obtain and execute warrants, and provide Crown prosecutors with the requisite material for court proceedings.
Our members are also trained to identify and report on criminal activities. While investigations of potential organized crime activities expand the capacity of a detachment, regional investigative units or drug units located throughout the province may carry out these investigations. As well, these investigations may be carried out by these specialized organized crime teams. Every province has at least one team at this time.
On training, law enforcement's biggest asset remains the cultivation and handling of human sources. Through the sources, we are able to monitor the activities of criminal organization and be both strategic and responsive in our enforcement approach.
The RCMP ensures that its members are trained in the management of human sources. We have also invested heavily in the training of the resources that are affected to the specialized organized crime teams.
The RCMP also experienced considerable success with targeted enforcement programs. Operation Pipeline and Jetway, for example, trains front-line police officers to detect and interdict contraband along highways and in transportation hubs, such as train and bus stations. These programs have proven extremely effective at disrupting organized crime's movement of legal products through rural areas to larger criminal markets.
It is important to stress, however, that enforcement alone is not enough. The RCMP believes in a balanced approach that includes education, awareness and enforcement. Raising awareness helps protect individuals from becoming victims.
The RCMP's Drugs and Organized Crime Awareness Service, DOCAS, has been supporting our enforcement initiatives for more than 20 years. This service is committed through partnerships to make communities safer and healthier by reducing substance abuse, organized crime and their related problems. Its goal is to encourage, mobilize and support community-led and police-assisted initiatives.
This is a point I cannot stress enough: Reducing substance abuse, organized crime and their related problems cannot be limited to the police. It must involve community leaders and social services in a combined effort toward education and prevention. This is true in all areas of Canada, especially in rural communities where resources are scarcer.
I will be happy to elaborate on any of these issues or anything else I can help you with this evening.
Mark Allen, Inspector, Manager, Crime Prevention Section, Investigation Bureau, Ontario Provincial Police: Thank you for the opportunity to address this committee on the issues of crime and policing in relation to your examination of rural poverty in Canada. As mentioned, I am the manager the Crime Prevention Section for the Ontario Provincial Police, OPP, and I have been specifically asked to address two areas tonight: Rural grow operations and domestic violence.
I would like to give a very brief overview of the OPP. We are responsible for policing nearly 1 million square kilometres of land and over 110,000 square kilometres of waterways. Our 5,650 uniform members, 2,194 civilian members, 68 First Nations members and 853 auxiliary members provide a vast array of services to the province and 315 municipalities through our 165 detachments, 6 regional headquarters and general headquarters in Orillia.
I will begin by speaking to marijuana grow operations. The pictures behind me are worth 1,000 words.
Grow operations and organized crime in rural Ontario, including the production, distribution and trafficking of illicit drugs, have been identified as the primary source of revenue for organized criminal groups operating in the province of Ontario.
The proliferation of marijuana grow operations, or grows, in rural Ontario is attributed directly to organized crime groups that exploit the secluded nature of rural communities to further their criminal enterprise.
In 2002, our Drug Enforcement Section, DES, dismantled 480 indoor grow operations and 249 outdoor grow operations. Since that time, DES has seen a steady decline in the indoor grow operations but a steady increase in outdoor grow operations. The ratio of outdoor to indoor grow operations has been continually reversing. In 2007, of the 551 grows we dismantled, 365 were outdoor grows as opposed to 186 indoor; two-thirds of them were outdoors.
A number of reasons could be cited for this shift. One reason is increased enforcement on indoor grows has pushed growers to rural outdoor operation. The second reason could be economics. As my colleague mentioned, land is cheap in rural areas and one annual marijuana harvest could be equal to the annual harvest of ten indoor grows. Finally, the rural nature of where most grows are located often makes detection more difficult, and, in general, our officers are spread more thinly in rural areas.
During the past five years, DES and their partners have investigated nearly 3,550 marijuana grow operations and have destroyed 1.3 million plants. In addition, our DES officers are seeing an alarming number of weapons seizures. In the past five years, officers have seized 3,200 weapons in relation to drug investigations.
The public safety threat posed by the proliferation of outdoor marijuana grows in rural Ontario is evident in the emerging trend of «drug rips» in which organized crime groups steal from other criminals' grow operations.
In the last couple of years, marijuana growers are guarding their crops from «pot pirates.» Pot pirates are individuals, many armed with weapons, who steal the marijuana crops. There have been incidents where people have been shot, killed and/or wounded. Police are seeing elaborate booby traps aimed to kill or maim, as well as viewing observation and security posts that are dug into the earth or constructed from tree growth in order to conceal the person's location.
With marijuana production being a multi-billion dollar business, there are groups who will go to extremes to protect their product and others that will go to extremes to steal the product.
OPP officers have investigated a multiple shooting in Greenfield, north of Cornwall, in relation to a marijuana grow operation. One person was killed. In another shooting near Portland, Ontario, a man was shot in relation to a grow operation. Police have recently arrested and charged an individual in relation to a murder that directly related to the theft of marijuana from a grow operation in the Cobourg area five years ago.
OPP officers commenced eradicating a marijuana grow in Carnarvon, east of Bracebridge, where they were met by 20 suspects, some of whom were in possession of bulletproof vests and handguns. In that case, all suspects were eventually arrested. Most recently, six all-terrain-vehicle enthusiasts riding in the trails near Minden, Ontario, encountered armed individuals who abducted, pistol-whipped and shot at them. Police arrived on scene, conducted an investigation and seized over 1,800 pounds of marijuana bud in duffle bags that these pot pirates had harvested.
In a number of these incidents, pot pirates were portraying themselves as police officers outfitted with police-type clothing, with police markings on the back.
The domestic sale and use of marijuana in Ontario is at unprecedented levels. Statistics indicate that high school students are consuming less tobacco than ever before. However, at the same time, they are consuming marijuana at levels that exceed consumption levels at the peak periods of 1970s. Compounding this problem of increased usage is the increased level of violence inherent with organized crime protecting its illicit investment, which has migrated into the rural areas.
A final example of a pot-pirating incident involved tactical officers conducting surveillance from within a large-scale grow operation, waiting for harvesters to return. DES officers were staged nearby but away from the immediate area. A tactical officer noticed a fully-uniformed police officer armed with a long gun approaching his concealed position in the grow site. The officer radioed the DES officers inquiring who this individual was and why he had not been informed of a change in the plans. The DES officers verified all of their members were accounted for and advised the tactical officer the individual was not one of them.
The tactical officer quickly made the assessment that the individual may not be a police officer despite wearing full police clothing and clearly marked police bulletproof vest. The tactical officer confronted the individual, who was armed. Fortunately, the individual surrendered his weapon and was taken into custody without incident. This individual was one of several fully outfitted and armed individuals dressed as police officers, who were also taken into custody.
We have experienced several other incidents where significant levels of violence or potential for violence have been a factor as either members of the public unwittingly find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, or various factions of organized crime come into conflict as they are trying to steal from one another.
Although I am focusing on marijuana grow operations, I would like to note that the seclusion of Ontario's rural communities is also exploited by organized crime groups involved in the production of methamphetamine. In 2005, OPP seizures of methamphetamine totalled 2.85 kilograms, while in 2006 seizures increased 14-fold to 40.5 kilograms.
The risk of chemical explosions and toxic fumes at locations known as meth labs posed serious risk to first responders, including police, firefighters and hazardous waste handlers. These often crudely developed labs also pose serious risk for those who work and live near the labs.
As an example, OPP dismantled a residential ecstasy lab containing methamphetamine where two young children aged 1 year and 8 years were living. Drugs screening tests of these youngsters' systems following the raid indicated that the youngest child had a very high concentration of methamphetamine and the older child had a low to medium concentration.
Over the last five years, our officers have been involved in the investigation and/or dismantling of 40 meth labs in the province. In last two years, there has been a shift in the scale of the meth production. We now have super labs, which are reflective of an alarming scale of methamphetamine production and trafficking in Ontario.
It is important to note that crime in rural areas disproportionately affects the province's Aboriginal community. Organized crime groups involved in tobacco smuggling, drugs and weapons exploit Ontario's Aboriginal communities. They take advantage of geographic isolation and proximity to international border crossings.
Aside from the obvious public safety threat, organized criminal activities on reserves, as in any small community, significantly affect resident's quality of life, sense of community and social well-being.
I will now address domestic violence. Data released by Statistics Canada last year indicated that, in 2006, Ontario's homicide rate was down by 11 per cent over the previous year. However, domestic homicides were up.
We need to be very careful in terms of how we interpret crime statistics. While homicides are down in Canada, many believe there is a direct correlation between the decline in homicide rates in our country and the advances made over the last number of years in emergency medical services and the medical care victims receive in hospital trauma units. Simply put, people continue to be shot and stabbed. They just get much better medical care than they did 10 years ago.
This correlation seems to be supported by the fact that, in 2006, attempted murders were up by 15 per cent in Ontario. As well, other forms of violent crime, including robberies with a firearm, increased by 16 per cent. There is also a strong belief that crime in general continues to be under-reported. For the six-year period from 2002 to 2007 inclusive, of the 174 homicides investigated within the OPP jurisdiction, 38, or 22 per cent, were classified as domestic homicides.
Our experience shows that particularly in the northern parts of our province, when there is a downturn in the economy, such as when a major local employer closes, stress levels among those affected increase. The levels of family conflict, including domestic violence, also increase as families try to cope with the loss of employment.
Historically, Ontario's northern economy has been steeped in natural resources. The depletion of natural resources, combined with other economic factors, has contributed to the depopulation of northern and rural communities.
We also recognize that there are a number of risk factors contributing to both the continuation and under-reporting of domestic violence and abuse generally. Those factors include isolation; lack of support services, including women's and children's shelters in rural communities; lack of transportation and substance abuse. In essence, many victims of domestic violence simply feel trapped. Resources are limited, distances are significant to social agencies that could help and, in many cases, victims feel they have no alternative but to remain in the situation and endure the abuse.
Other factors that may affect a victim's decision to report abuse may include the following considerations: Who will take care of the farm, home or business when the offender is removed? Who will ensure the safety of children and pets if a victim decides to leave? In certain circumstances, based on ethnic origins, issues of social acceptance come into play.
The OPP has placed domestic violence prevention as a priority in our service delivery model. We are gradually increasing the number of domestic violence coordinators within our detachments across the province, with the goal of having a dedicated, full- time coordinator in each detachment. Increased training and awareness among our front-line officers is seen as critical.
The refinement of protocols and partnerships with Crown attorneys, probation officers, social agencies, and women's and children's shelters continues as we look at a case-management approach to the more serious domestic violence cases involving repeat offenders.
As a former detachment commander for 15 years, I made it a priority to ensure that we were linked very closely with our local shelter. Along with the shelter's executive director, we initiated a program where we had our female officers work within the shelter for a week to give them a first-hand understanding of what victims face when they decide to leave and go to a shelter.
We are also placing a heavier emphasis on aggressive-offender management within our community to ensure those offenders on various forms of judicial release, probation and parole are abiding by the conditions of their release.
Although I was asked to focus on marijuana grow operations and domestic violence, I would like to add a brief comment on the rural suicide rate. A 2006 study revealed higher suicide rates among those living in rural settings. The highest risk was for those under 20, with boys living in a rural area being four times and girls six times more likely to commit suicide than those young people residing in urban areas. These figures were similar for adults.
Population in the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, covering a vast geographic area north of Thunder Bay, Ontario, is approximately 30,000 people. Sixty-five per cent of these people are under the age of 26. Over the last 18 years, there has been an epidemic of suicides with over 254 completed and an estimated 4,000 attempted suicides.
In closing, front-line police officers play a significant role in all communities, but especially in rural and remote communities. Of all the social agencies — including policing as a social agency — we are the ones who are the most visible and the most accessible. Many of our officers working in rural and northern communities are young members still learning their profession. On a daily basis, they are dealing with issues that are not necessarily policing matters. However, the issues fall to us to deal with as we are there. We are visible, and if we do not deal with them, who will?
Our front-line members do this with vast geographic areas to police, stretched resources and often with limited or no backup. For these reasons and many more that I have not touched on, we appreciate the government's commitment to increase the number of police officers in our communities. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
The Chair: Thank you. We would like to close the circle with Marcel Eugène Lebeuf, Senior Research Officer with the RCMP.
[Translation]
Marcel Eugène Lebeuf, Senior Research Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Madam Chair, I thank you for inviting me. I have not prepared any opening statement since I have worked for almost a year and a half on a research and I believe that you have had access to this material.
I would like to remind you that this work is already somewhat outdated. The research was done during the year 2004. It is a research that essentially aimed at answering the following questions: Are first line police officers, that is men and women who are patrol officers, aware of organized crime? Are they knowledgeable about it? How do they acquire that knowledge? And are they able to counter it?
So I am available to answer your questions, if you have any.
[English]
Senator Callbeck: I would like to ask a couple of questions on domestic violence because this is an issue that has come up time and again in our study on rural poverty. It has been mentioned that in rural areas there are barriers to assessing law enforcement services, whether that be physical distance, transportation or lack of social services. I wonder about the tight social bonds that are found in rural communities. Do you find that many people are hesitant to report instances of family violence?
Mr. Allen: Under-reporting is a significant issue. There are many challenges for our communities in Northern Ontario. For example, if a report is made and a suspect is removed from the community, where does that person go because many communities have fly-in access only? As well, there are numerous issues around non-association conditions of release. These are tough challenges in terms of doing the right thing.
In Ontario, we have a mandatory charge policy when there is evidence of domestic assault whereby officers are obligated to lay a charge — they do not have discretion to do otherwise — and let the Crown attorneys make the decision. At times, that can be more devastating to the family. These are extremely challenging issues for our communities.
Senator Callbeck: Are most of the investigations initiated by the victim or by someone else?
Mr. Allen: We have an initiative in Ontario called Neighbours, Friends and Families whereby we encourage those who are aware of domestic violence to report it. We are seeing an increase in the number of reports coming from people other than the victims. I cannot say for certain what the percentages are, but often someone other than the victim reports because the victims are afraid to report.
Senator Callbeck: What type of training do you give your officers on family violence? My province of Prince Edward Island has a standardization in police response that came about through the police, the RCMP, the director of child welfare and the Crown prosecutor. They are involved in a group that gets together from time to time to work on issues of domestic violence and have developed standardized forms and approaches across the province. Is it done that way in all provinces, or is that approach unique to P.E.I.?
Mr. Allen: I can only speak for Ontario, where we have a similar approach.
Senator Segal: Mr. Allen and Mr. Aubin, from your perspective, is it the isolation of rural communities that presents opportunities for crime, or is it the poverty of the people living in those communities that results in an incentive not to report it? What is the driving force, and how, in your experience, would it be different from the driving force in a big city core?
Mr. Aubin: I am sorry, senator, was your question on the driving force of not reporting it?
Senator Segal: No, I want to know about the driving force of the increase in criminal activity per se. Is the driving force of that increase the surrounding poverty or the isolation that leads to people concluding that they can get away without detection in drug-related or grow-op-related activities?
Mr. Aubin: There are several factors at play. For example, in the lower mainland area of British Columbia, there are programs through the Fire Chiefs' Association of British Columbia to increase housing inspections. That has pushed indoor marijuana growers from the large urban centres to the bedroom and rural communities.
As was explained by Mr. Allen, marijuana grow operations are no longer simply a group of guys getting together to grow marijuana to satisfy a group of people. Rather, these operations are based in organized crime. These operations are what we call ``economic-based.'' The yield of these operations is significant and, as Mr. Allen explained, they go to extremes to protect them. We are seeing a movement toward rural areas where their operation costs relevant to housing and land are lower. Organized crime sees this as an opportunity to do what they have to do continue growing marijuana or producing methamphetamine away from the eyes of law enforcement.
To a certain extent, we are seeing a displacement and an emergence of organized crime groups and street gangs in smaller communities. Many of these gangs are connected to the more traditional organized crime groups and are carrying out activities such as growing marijuana and producing methamphetamine in remote areas for those more traditional groups. Their incentive is monetary, and they are becoming more complex and sophisticated in their business.
Senator Segal: I spent some time with a few Crown attorneys in the part of Ontario where I live — Leeds County, Frontenac and Kingston. They reported that many of their cases for more serious crimes, such as domestic violence and others, are related to poverty. They also said that there is an intergenerational link to poverty for which there seems to be no solutions and that the cycle repeats itself. That may be statistically valid, but is it anecdotally valid in terms of what officers find when people engage in such activities.
The committee travelled to Maniwaki to hold a meeting. A high school teacher appeared before the committee and asked what teachers can do when kids come to school to sell drugs because their parents have sent them to do so. The parents live in a home that displays relative wealth, but no one in the home has a job. How do you deal with such a scenario?
Mr. Allen: That is accurate in terms of the cyclical issue of family violence. Some kids are growing up in families of criminals. I will add to the comment on street gangs. In the Greater Toronto Area a couple of years ago, we had what was called the ``summer of the gun.'' The emphasis to address the issue was on community programs, which were quite successful. However, those gang members simply moved as they were pushed out to the rural areas.
We are trying to play catch-up in many areas because the whole issue is quite new in some of our communities. We talked about the holistic approach of communities in addressing these issues, but some community members do not want to admit they have a problem, which makes it difficult. Gang activity and, in particular, youth gang activity is worrisome and is on the rise in rural communities where it did not exist five years ago.
Senator Segal: In terms of the remote issue, do the OPP and RCMP have access to satellite technology for the purpose of monitoring and scanning areas where they cannot have their officers present? Is such equipment made available to criminal intelligence officers and other groups? Perhaps they have it, but you not allowed to tell me. I do not mean to pry, but we have heard from police, in the past, that they just do not have enough people to get to the areas and provide the backup. I would like to believe that you have access to technology that would make your job a little less overwhelming, without diminishing the challenge. However, if you cannot tell me, I understand.
Mr. Aubin: I will let Mr. Allen speak to the situation with front-line policing and the use of it. In terms of organized crime, the use of technology in general is always challenging. Do we use it? Yes, we do. We try to use it because we are trying to catch up all the time. With organized crime, we will never be ahead of the eight ball, as the expression goes. We are always trying to catch up, and organized crime is always looking for new techniques and ways.
Remoteness is one issue. For example, where organized crime is cultivating marijuana in remote areas, we have seen some cases where they are literally burying containers in the ground to defeat the detection technology that is available to us. They will bury it many feet into the ground, bypassing hydro services. It goes to show the complexity with which organized crime operates. Their activities yield large amounts of money, and they are willing to invest in it.
If anything, there is a need to recognize socially what organized crime does, or what people are doing in support of organized crime. In many instances, it is no longer ``Johnny'' doing a little pot grow operation; it is individuals supporting organized crime. They are responsible for certain marijuana grow operations. A house is turned into production, and it is an economic-based lab. It has a high yield, and these individuals are there to support organized crime. My opinion is that we need to come to that awareness, without being alarmist.
Senator St. Germain: I believe it was you, Mr. Allen, that said the use of marijuana is becoming more socially acceptable with our young people. I do not know what your exact terms were, but obviously education cannot be working effectively if our young people are subjecting themselves to the use of drugs — whether it is marijuana, amphetamines, ecstasy or whatever drugs. Is that a statistical fact that can be substantiated in terms of use?
Mr. Allen: Yes, the use of marijuana has increased significantly among young people. Education is working in that young people understand the dangers of drugs. Many of them just believe marijuana is a safe drug, which it is not. That is one of the biggest challenges.
They believe it is harmless. They believe they can smoke it for a couple of years and stop, and it will not have an impact on them. As much as we try to get the message through to young people that marijuana is not a safe drug, and it will have a lasting impact, many do not believe it.
Senator St. Germain: You cannot really blame them when there are politicians running around saying that it is harmless, and we should legalize it.
I am from British Columbia. I live on Eighth Avenue, and we tunnel everywhere when we go somewhere. A few miles away from me, they tunnelled under the U.S. border.
You have to Charter-proof every charge now; and the organized crime you are fighting on a daily basis has the best lawyers and the best advice. We have people saying, in this country, that we cannot get tough. They always revert back to the American example. Look at the American jails; they are full, yet they still have a problem down there. Whenever there is a drug dealer close to that U.S. border, he makes a run for the Canadian side, at all costs. He will go clear over ditches, trees and anything to get on this side to try to effect the arrest on the Canadian side.
Do you believe that, by virtue of the way of our system, we can ever gain control if we are seen as a lenient place? I do not know how many times we have heard in British Columbia, where criminals are being pursued with drugs in their vehicles and so on — even in airplanes, helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft — they make the run for the Canadian side. We are seen as lenient on crime. If we were not seen as this, I can guarantee, this would not be the case.
How do you overcome that type of situation and properly enforce the laws of the lands and bring this horrific blight on our society under control? I am a former policeman; I guess you can sense that.
Mr. Aubin: In terms of sentencing provisions, it is well-known that the U.S. does have minimum guidelines for drug- related offences. It is a sliding scale, contingent on the amount of drugs one is found guilty of possessing, trafficking and so on.
I am not an expert in it, but I do have experience in dealing with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency doing international cases. In Canada, our sentencing guidelines, as applied by the judiciary, are not necessarily on a minimum standard basis or a sliding scale basis. However, the Criminal Code does have section 467, which was introduced approximately five years ago. It contains provisions that deal with organized crime. For example, section 467.13 deals with individuals who are found to be directing criminal organizations. They may not be found with their hands in the bag, so to speak; but if they are found to be directing criminal organizations, they can be so charged.
I speak from knowledge. To those who know of Project Coliseum in Montreal, which resulted in the arrest of 90 individuals linked to organized crime, I was the officer in charge of that investigation at the time.
Back to your question, however, I believe the answer really lies in the balanced approach when we look down the road. We have to look at our youth and our communities; the approach is not strictly law enforcement. It is there and needs to be supported by the judiciary. However, we also have to look at prevention and education.
It is about turning to our youth and giving them the sense not to be attracted to drugs, street gangs and crime; and providing youth in the rural areas with the amenities and resources to have something else to do other than hang around. They need to have hockey rinks and gymnasiums, and support services. Without them, in many instances, they will turn to crime as something to do.
Senator St. Germain: I have a short question on Aboriginal people. Many of us here work on that particular committee as well. You said that our Aboriginal youth are exposed to and involved in gangs and also the drug trade.
This is to overcome poverty, the poverty that plagues the First Nations reserves or communities as a whole. Basically, whether in Winnipeg or any of the major urban centres, there is a high concentration of young Aboriginal people. What do you feel would be the solution for discouraging this group? This takes them basically out of the depths of poverty and gives them access to materialism, whether by way of money or whatever they can buy.
From your experiences, what would be the most effective way of dealing with this segment of society?
Mr. Allen: One of the key issues is — and this is not restricted to Aboriginal youth, but about youth in general — they need strong guidance to head down the right path in life.
Your previous question ties in with the education and prevention piece. Both the RCMP and the OPP are involved in the Drug Abuse Resistance Education program, D.A.R.E. I attended the first Canadian D.A.R.E. conference last week. It brought police officers from across Canada together. A common theme heard from our D.A.R.E. training officers was that they should be in the schools educating the kids. However, with only so many officers to go around and them being called away, their D.A.R.E. classes are being cancelled due to other calls for service or competing priorities.
A study in the U.S. shows that for every $1 spent on prevention, $8 is saved in the criminal justice system. However, it is tough to convince people prevention is worth it. When we talk about youth — keeping them out of gangs and having them choose the path in life where they get an education and contribute to society as opposed to joining a gang — as my colleague says, it is a complex issue. It is really a community issue. We need a multi-disciplinary approach. It is not simply a police or a drug issue.
I know I have not answered your question, but I have danced around it as best I could.
Senator St. Germain: I asked you an impossible question to answer in a short period of time.
Senator Gustafson: What of percentage of crime results from family breakup? I am referring to a family in which the kids are not looked after and are not properly raised.
Mr. Allen: I cannot give you a specific number, but we know, in some cases, that is a factor. Many families are intact and still have problems. There are families in which there are breakups, and it is handled very well; the kids go on to lead quite successful lives.
However, there is no doubt that, in some cases, that has been cited as a factor. The family unit is important, the children need stability and direction, and they need adults who care. One of the pieces of data we looked at last week at the conference was that every child needs four solid adults as role models and mentors in their life; beyond their parents they need other people that can guide them and help them along through childhood. It is a tough road, especially these days.
Senator Gustafson: What is the biggest cause of car accidents with young people? There seems to be more of that all the time. Is it alcohol or marijuana?
Mr. Allen: Alcohol certainly continues to be a problem.
Mr. Aubin: That is a difficult question, sir. However, in my experience, alcohol is the leading cause. That being said, the consumption of drugs as a cause is definitely challenging for police officers to detect. It is certainly there. However, it is difficult to say which one is worse. Many would say that speeding is probably one of the major contributing factors, as well. Unfortunately, I am not well-versed on that aspect of it.
Senator Gustafson: Senator St. Germain touched on getting tough on crime. Do you believe it would help if the legislators got tougher and the courts toughen up a bit?
Mr. Allen: Different people respond to different deterrents. For some people, the fear of being incarcerated is a deterrent. For others, they can carry on their criminal activity from inside prison just as well as outside. A balanced approach is needed. Certainly, the deterrence of incarceration works for some, but it is much greater than that. The balanced approached of prevention, education and enforcement needs to be there. There is no cookie-cutter or one- size-fits-all approach.
Senator Gustafson: How long does it take to grow a marijuana plant to the point of harvest?
Mr. Aubin: Many organizations know it is not a matter of speed, although the speed at which it is done has to do with yield. They have it down to a science; they know exactly how many hours per day of light and how much water, humidity and ventilation is required. They have it to a point where the plants can now produce a higher level of THC potency. THC stands for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol and is the chemical product that provides the ``high.''
At the end of the day, they are able to sell a product for which there is a market demand. Growing periods can vary from three to six months, depending on the strain and type of yield desired. Some people will attempt to produce it quicker, but the potency and the yield per plant will not necessarily be at the desired level. It is necessary to understand that there is a bit of a science to it. Much effort goes into these economic-based marijuana cultivation operations.
Senator Gustafson: What is the street value of one mature plant?
Mr. Aubin: I have had to give expert testimony many times before criminal courts, and it is one area in which I try to be very conservative. There are many figures offered out there.
The plants will offer, on average, a pound of marijuana. That is for someone who does a good job of production. Again, I am trying to keep it conservative so we are not misleading the courts or Canadians, in general. Is that a figure the OPP relies on?
Mr. Allen: Yes, it is.
Senator Gustafson: Why do indoor grow operations destroy the house?
Mr. Allen: There are large amounts of humidity, so mould is created. In Ontario now, there is legislation in place with respect to identifying grow houses. There are standards. Many of them cannot be cleaned up, so they are bulldozed.
I want to go back to your last point about marijuana quality and price. It is nothing to be proud of, but we produce the highest quality of marijuana in the world here in Canada. It has the highest THC content. We talked earlier about youth usage and the perception of it being a ``soft drug'' that will not hurt them. The THC levels were much lower in the 1970s. Youth are smoking a much more potent drug now than in the 1970s, which is of great concern.
Senator Gustafson: Among the serious drugs, is it about the worst for young people?
Mr. Allen: They are using marijuana more than anything else, but there are other drugs out there that are much more harmful to them.
Mr. Aubin: We also have to look at methamphetamine. The 2006 Drug Situation Report tabled recently by the RCMP identified Canada as no longer being a victim country, whereas ecstasy was being imported into Canada. The reality is that we are a producing country. We produce and export ecstasy to the U.S. and other countries. That is another drug we need to be concerned about. If we are exporting it, that means our streets are saturated and the demand is being met locally.
Senator Gustafson: We have a large land base to cover to detect all of this.
Mr. Aubin: Yes, sir.
Senator Peterson: You indicated that organized crime is fairly sophisticated. Who exactly is it? The terms we hear about are the Mafia and biker gangs. Are they Canadian or are they from outside the country? Who is funding all this?
Mr. Aubin: Organized crime groups have been here for a long time. The traditional Mafia came to Canada in 1954, if we look at some of the books that are written about them. The Hells Angels have been here since World War II.
It is important to understand that they have managed to evolve over the years. A number of the organizations, though not all, have evolved to a level of sophistication with an ability to finance and insulate themselves from our police enforcement activities. It was mentioned earlier that they have good lawyers. I would say that they have experienced lawyers, not necessarily good ones. However, they have experienced lawyers that are able to coach them on police techniques and how to insulate themselves.
We see them now carrying out activities in a number of jurisdictions at one time. This makes it more challenging for us. The jurisdictions in which they operate can be inside and outside Canada.
Their activities are not limited to drug trafficking. I see all the operations across Canada led by the RCMP on organized crime. They are involved in a number of criminal activities at any point in time. Our studies show that over 80 per cent of criminal organizations have drug trafficking as a primary activity. However, they do have secondary activities. Some are involved in very sophisticated levels of money laundering, and corruption is becoming more prevalent as a tool for organized crime. They will rely on individuals who may be working for law enforcement agencies or various government departments to access information.
The level of sophistication has increased, and it demands police have a very comprehensive and sophisticated approach as well.
Senator Peterson: Is it usually the foot soldiers then that wind up getting caught and the top guys are insulated? They have the money and can restart the process again.
Mr. Aubin: That is a good question. Organized crime teams balance short-term versus long-term investigations.
With the short-term investigations, one would expect that we would get a segment of the organization. That segment may be involved in drug importation for example. However, if we want to be able to go up the hierarchy to the directors of a well-entrenched organization, the requirements on law enforcement become very stringent. It has to be a comprehensive, labour intensive investigation where we monitor the activities and have to be there at the right place and the right time using the right technique.
It can become costly, and the reality today is we have an obligation to provide the courts with full disclosure. That is a significant challenge to the organized crime teams.
I can think of a specific case of a small criminal organization based out of Orillia. I walked into the courts and had 20 banker boxes. That was my copy of the disclosure for that case for trial. Twenty banker boxes times 25 accused tends to get rather complicated, time-consuming and expensive. Therefore, there are realities that we take into consideration.
Senator Peterson: You indicated there is an increase in violent crime and use of guns. Are these handguns?
Mr. Allen: Do you mean with respect to grow operations?
Senator Peterson: You said an increase in violent crime, including shootings and robberies.
Mr. Allen: The majority of weapons used in those types of crime are handguns. However, in the marijuana grow operations, they protect themselves using long guns and some high-powered rifles. It is not uncommon to see the high- powered rifles as well.
Senator Peterson: Where do the handguns come from?
Mr. Allen: They are coming from a variety of sources. Certainly, some come from the United States, and some are stolen from residential break and enters. Therefore, they are sourced locally as well.
As much as gun laws are tighter in Canada than in the U.S., guns are still fairly easy to get in Canada.
Senator Peterson: You talked about the need to get youth redirected at an earlier age. There was a song a few years ago that said that freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. Dealing with that is an incredible human resource function. You work with them. However, who else do you feel should step up to the table, the cities, the provinces, the federal government?
Mr. Allen: You know the old adage: It takes an entire village to raise a child. It takes all levels of government, social services and non-governmental organizations, as well, to engage. Growing up is tough for kids. I do much work in the area of safe schools. I have been looking closely at working with the Toronto Police Service and the Toronto District School Board. It takes many creative ideas to engage youth. I always find it interesting when I go to a conference on youth, and there are no kids there. We need to hear from them; they need to have a voice about their needs and how we can meet them rather than sitting together as adults and deciding what is good for them.
Mr. Aubin: One of the initiatives being considered by law enforcement in dealing with Aboriginal reserves with respect to the Drugs and Organized Crime Awareness Services, DOCAS, is to call on the communities themselves and train members of the communities on these issues. Then, they can go back and be leaders in educating the youth.
Traditionally, we used to have police officers do it. However, with limited resources and police officers not staying in a community for 10 or 20 years, we had to change. The OPP and the RCMP, by need, have to transfer our members. Therefore, we are now looking at calling on community leaders to come in and receive training on these programs so that they may, in turn, educate the youth. We have to look at these creative ways of delivering necessary programs.
Senator Mahovlich: When you mention marijuana, I always think of the drug capital of Canada being Nelson, B.C. It began back in the 1960s, I believe, when we had all the hippies coming into our country. Is that still prevalent in Nelson?
Mr. Aubin: I am sorry; I have not had the opportunity to visit Nelson, senator.
Senator Mahovlich: Does it not have a reputation for that?
Mr. Aubin: I am not aware of such a reputation compared to other cities.
Senator Mahovlich: This is what I understood about Nelson.
How many houses have been bulldozed in Toronto because of marijuana grow operations?
Mr. Allen: I do not know that.
Senator Mahovlich: There have been quite a few. I read in the newspaper where grow operations were closed down and houses had to be destroyed. Do we not have a number?
Mr. Allen: No, I do not.
Senator Mahovlich: Whatever happened to opium? Can you still get that? The Chinese have a reputation for its use, and many books have been written in China about opium. The Chinese are now a third of the population in Toronto I believe.
Mr. Aubin: In relation to the Chinese, I could not say. However, the 2006 Drug Situation Report still reports the importation of heroin into Canada. Most of the heroin originates from Asia, not South America. Opium and heroin users are mainly concentrated in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.
Senator Mahovlich: Is it a problem like marijuana? Is it a concern?
Mr. Aubin: It is definitely a concern because of the effects of heroin, which are well-known. The east end of Vancouver has been portrayed as an area where heroin use is prevalent, and the effects on the lives of individuals are incredible. Lives are literally destroyed by the use of heroin. Maybe that consumer base is not as large as marijuana, but the concerns for law enforcement and society in general are significant. In terms of the priorities in the drug enforcement program, heroin is included.
Senator Mahovlich: A number of years ago, I visited Drummondville, Quebec, where there was a rash of suicides in their high schools. Has the rate of teen suicide decreased? I believe there were nine high school children who committed suicide that one year in Drummondville. Sadly, they felt they had nothing to live for. Have we made improvements in that area through education for youngsters in Quebec?
Mr. Aubin: I can only speak for the RCMP, not knowing Drummondville itself or that particular situation. However, it speaks very much to the issue of the need to support youth today. We have heard stories about other areas of Canada where youth have committed to sniffing gasoline or other activities because they have nothing else to do. We need to invest in youth and to find ways to provide them with the support, guidance and resources needed so that they do not turn to these activities for lack of something better to do.
Senator Mahovlich: Is one province any different than another province in terms of young students committing suicide?
Mr. Allen: There are pockets across the country. I was not familiar with the rate in Drummondville, but some of these instances are cyclical. I mentioned the area in Northern Ontario, where some communities have been identified as having extremely high suicide rates. The United Nations identified one of our Northern Ontario communities as having the highest suicide rate in the world.
The issues for young people are many, apart from isolation, such as bullying and cyber-bullying, which is a completely different topic. Suicides by youth have been directly attributed to victimization from bullying and cyber- bullying.
Senator Mahovlich: There are not many schools north of Thunder Bay, so I imagine one of the problems is education in that area.
Mr. Allen: There are many challenges in the remote parts of our country. Certainly, many children have to travel great distances to attend school, in particular high school.
The Chair: My question goes back to an earlier visit that the committee made in Western Canada. I am from Lethbridge in Alberta. It is in a beautiful area of the country with rolling hills, river valleys, nearby mountains and winding highways. The RCMP began in wonderful, historic Fort McLeod in that area. On that trip, I thought it would be nice if committee members could have a private meeting with the various mayors, reeves and others because we could not travel to all communities. I asked them to give us a thumb-nail sketch of how their communities were doing. One after the other, they came to the microphone, and the first word said was ``crystal meth.'' That startled me because I was unaware of the problem. I learned that it was happening in several of these communities.
I do not understand how these people who slip this stuff to young children cannot be discovered in such small communities. Apparently, there is a vigorous group of folks who are doing their very best to bring these drugs into the communities. Could we have your comments on that, taking a national perspective?
Mr. Aubin: There is a two-part answer, if I may. First, one of the challenges presented by producers of chemical drugs for law enforcement is that the production process can involve many steps. Under our current legislation, law enforcement has to wait until the process is sufficiently engaged before taking action. Therefore, these labs, which are put together and led by organized crime, move locations on purpose to counter what police are trying to do to detect them.
The legislation requires us to wait until the lab is producing at a level that will be undisputable that the end product will be methamphetamine, even for a conspiracy charge. Before that stage, it can be claimed that the end product could be many substances, including soap.
The challenges for law enforcement on the detection side of production are many. The rare case occurs where we have evidence first-hand prior to production, and the individual is willing to admit that he or she intends to produce methamphetamine.
The second issue is trafficking. We talk about individuals who traffic to our kids, at times, in the proximity of school zones or other areas where kids hang out. There is no doubt that the issue of resources is constant, and we try to be as strategic as possible with our resources.
In community drug enforcement, we always try to prioritize what we do based on intelligence available to us. At times, it might seem that we are behind in knowing what is happening, but it is simply that we are working on the highest priority. We might forego working on a trafficker at a small level to try to work on an organization that is producing a much larger scale of contraband products or drugs intended for the Canadian market. The challenges are many.
The Chair: Certainly, it is important that everyone in every way tries to work together and not in isolation.
Mr. Aubin: I do not want to sound like a broken record, but the issue is that police will not be able to eradicate drug trafficking, and that is the reality. We do not have the resources to do that. The answer goes back to target the market. The consumption base is our youth, so we have to prevent and educate. That is 66 per cent of our effort, and enforcement is only 33 per cent.
Mr. Allen: We are able to reduce the demand by keeping young kids off drugs, and that can have a significant, long- term effect on reducing the trends down the road. As long as the demand exists, there is money to be made.
Senator Callbeck: With respect to the suicide rates among youth, I find it shocking that there is such a difference between rural and urban youth. You say that boys living in rural areas are four times, and girls six times, more likely to commit suicide than those in the urban areas.
Has this changed much in the last 20 years? Have the number of suicides in rural areas shot up dramatically, or have we always had the gap between urban and rural youth?
Mr. Allen: I provided that number. That is from a 2006 national study, and I am not aware of the historical context to that.
Senator Callbeck: Okay, I just find that really shocking.
Senator Gustafson: Do gangs use fear and threats with lawyers —someone that is trying to put them in jail — or police officers? I would not be too encouraged to march into a house where I thought a gang was holding out.
Mr. Aubin: Yes, we have seen, across Canada, a number of trials where threats were being exacted toward lawyers, prosecutors and the judiciary or law enforcement. We do see it with some street gangs and with more traditional organized crime groups.
However, I must say that police and the judiciary are very much aware. There are provisions in the Criminal Code for those who do intimidate, and there is an organized response in a number of provinces by law enforcement to immediately step up and intercede.
If need be, in the very worst cases, there is also the witness protection program. It has happened where we had to consider admitting individuals into the witness protection program because of that type of situation.
Senator Peterson: Do we have any idea what the dollar value is of the drug trade on an annual basis, roughly?
Mr. Aubin: The 2006 Drug Situation Report was the first year that we reported the street value of the drugs that were seized by law enforcement across Canada. I believe the value of the drugs seized was $2.3 billion.
Senator Peterson: That you seized?
Mr. Aubin: Yes, drugs that we seized.
Senator Peterson: What percentage would that be of the total? How much more is out there?
Mr. Aubin: It is very difficult to try to figure out whether we are getting 10 per cent, 15 per cent or 35 per cent. The International Monetary Fund put out an interesting figure. It suggests that in Canada, the amount of money laundered annually, which is proceeds of crime, is between $22 billion and $55 billion. That would be from all types of criminal activity; but keep in mind that the drug trade is a very significant one.
In terms of what the $2.3 billion represents, I am not able to measure the effectiveness of law enforcement. However, we do see the effectiveness of law enforcement through the price of drugs on the streets. If the police are not effective, we will see an increase in the amount of drugs available, and the price will go down. That is simply market supply and demand. When we are effective — and especially in rural areas, it is very evident — when we have a significant seizure, when we are able to displace or arrest or incarcerate traffickers, suddenly drugs are not as available and the price goes up. That is how we are able to see some measure of effectiveness.
Senator Mahovlich: If we educate our youth and the demand goes down, then the export business starts, am I right? In America, there 30 million illiterate people, so how will we solve that problem? That is another problem we have to solve.
Mr. Allen: You are right, but we have to look after our own backyard and our own youth first.
Senator Mahovlich: It is ongoing, especially if the quality is good up here.
Mr. Allen: Absolutely.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Mahovlich. If we are to fix the literacy issue, it means that everyone has to get in line from government on down and do it. We are not doing it well enough, and I am glad you raised that.
Thank you all for coming here. This has been a very different type of hearing than our usual ones. On the other hand, it is very much a part of what is happening in rural Canada. Thank you very much, and keep doing what you are doing because clearly you are needed.
The committee adjourned