Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Official Languages
Issue 13 - Evidence - Meeting of June 8, 2015
OTTAWA, Monday, June 8, 2015
The Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages met this day at 5 p.m., to continue its study on Bill S-205, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act (communications with and services to the public).
Senator Claudette Tardif (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, welcome to this meeting of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages. I am Claudette Tardif, a senator from Alberta and chair of this committee. Before we begin, I would ask the senators to introduce themselves, starting on my left.
[English]
Senator McInnis: Senator Tom McInnis from Nova Scotia.
Senator Seidman: Judith Seidman from Montreal, Quebec.
[Translation]
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Suzanne Fortin-Duplessis from Quebec City.
Senator Maltais: Ghislain Maltais from Quebec.
Senator McIntyre: Paul McIntyre from New Brunswick.
Senator Chaput: Maria Chaput from Manitoba.
The Chair: Today we are continuing our study on Bill S-205, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act (communications with and services to the public), which is sponsored by Senator Chaput. Clause 2 of Bill S-205 intends to guarantee access by members of the public to services in the official language of their choice at major transportation hubs.
Today we have with us representatives from VIA Rail Canada. Welcome. Our witnesses today are Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, President and Chief Executive Officer; Laurent Caron, Chief Human Resources Officer and Official Languages Co-Champion; Eve-Danièle Veilleux, Advisor on Governmental Relations and Official Languages Co-Champion; and Diane Desaulniers, Official Languages Advisor.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano, you may begin your presentation, after which, the senators will ask questions.
Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, members of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.
[English]
I am pleased to appear before the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages to have the opportunity to speak about VIA Rail's unique perspective in the application of the Official Languages Act, in particular, the provisions of the language policy relating to the communications with and services to the public.
[Translation]
First, allow me to review who we are.
[English]
VIA Rail operates the only national passenger rail service on behalf of the Government of Canada. VIA Rail is a non-agent Crown corporation established in 1977 which provides Canadians with safe, efficient and environmentally responsible transportation. We travel across Canada through over 400 communities, on more than 12,000 kilometres of railway from coast to coast.
[Translation]
VIA Rail serves three markets. As a public entity, the corporation provides regional services, for example between Winnipeg and Churchill, Manitoba, Montreal and Senneterre, Quebec, or Sudbury and White River, Ontario. VIA Rail also offers two long-distance trains, in eastern and Western Canada respectively: our legendary Ocean, between Montreal and Halifax, and The Canadian, between Toronto and Vancouver. These two services fill a tourism-related role and also serve as a major regional transportation option. Our most popular service, however, is in the Quebec-Windsor corridor, where VIA Rail runs more than 400 departures weekly.
VIA Rail has a strong, unequivocal interest in the issue being studied by this committee today. The question at hand is agreeing upon a future benchmark that can be used to establish the level of service offered to francophones outside of Quebec and anglophones within Quebec, in a context where, while their numbers have increased over a number of censuses, the relative size of certain official language minority communities in Canada is proportionally lower compared to the total population. Since, in some cases, the representation of these linguistic minorities is below the five per cent threshold set by current legislation, certain communities no longer have access to bilingual services. In this regard, several attributes set VIA Rail's official languages policy — more specifically, the provisions relating to Part IV of the OLA — apart: its openness, its understanding of this country, its culture of safety and its dedication to bilingual service, which are all at the heart of the organization.
The following are some key facts. Since 1986, every new employee recruited to communicate with customers and other members of the public must be bilingual — an approach that was met with strong support from the Commissioner of Official Languages at the time. VIA Rail chooses to offer service to all Canadians in the official language of their choice, in its stations, in its call centres and onboard all its trains, throughout the country, whatever the level of demand.
At the time, VIA Rail justified its decision to adopt this service policy on the basis of two priorities: its passengers' health and safety. The corporation also wanted to offer the quality of service that Canadians are entitled to, and expect from their national rail carrier. Finally, as a public actor with a commercial purpose, VIA Rail seeks to offer a level of service that ranks among the most appealing with respect to international tourism standards.
We also believe that this consistency of service to members of the public across the country is, in operational terms, easier to manage. Although this policy was disputed, the Federal Court found in favour of VIA Rail in a judgment handed down in 2009. It recognized that the bilingual service requirements established by the corporation were reasonable for the following reasons.
First, VIA Rail plays an important role in promoting linguistic duality and bilingualism in Canada. The court also points out the key role our rail system has played in Canada's history and its status as part of Canada's cultural identity. Third, the corporation is not required to demonstrate the existence of adequate demands, namely the rate of five per cent, since it has chosen to exceed the minimum requirements of the OLA. Next, the objectivity of language requirements attached to a specific position or to specific duties must reflect the tasks to be performed, which enables the imposition of higher standards than those set by the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat — in this case, health and safety priorities, which I mentioned earlier.
[English]
Furthermore, according to the Supreme Court of Canada, VIA Rail was justified in establishing reasonable bilingual requirements because, first, VIA Rail believes that the regulations only set minimal standards with respect to the provision of bilingual services and, second, the concept of "public services," which is also guaranteed by section 20 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, is broader than just "communications."
The court ruled that:
. . . neither the Regulations nor Burolis can supersede or restrain the OLA or the Charter, but must always be interpreted and applied in a manner consistent with the general objectives of the preamble of the OLA and a recognition of the fundamental values of the Charter and Canadian policy in the matter of bilingualism.
[Translation]
The level of satisfaction with, and appreciation of, our bilingual service offer, as expressed by our passengers, is demonstrated by the small number of complaints filed with the Commissioner of Official Languages over the past five years. Quarterly surveys conducted with customers over this period revealed that more than 95 per cent were satisfied with VIA Rail's offer of service in the language of their choice.
[English]
Indeed, during the past five years the number of complaints directed to VIA Rail by the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages varied from none to nine active cases at any given time.
No complaints have been filed so far in 2015 — touch wood. This, in our view, is revealing and positive considering that close to 4 million passengers travel with us every year. This reflects the high priority established by the corporation to offering bilingual services throughout Canada.
Furthermore, the Commissioner of Official Languages gave VIA Rail an overall A rating for all the actions it has taken with respect to official languages in its 2013-14 annual report:
[Translation]
VIA Rail Canada stood out for [its] exemplary overall performance, demonstrating a strong commitment to complying with the Official Languages Act in most of the areas evaluated. . . VIA Rail [is] encouraged to continue to strive for excellence.
[English]
The commissioner also publicly refers to the corporation as a good example among federal institutions. Despite this good record, we are not taking the situation for granted. All of us are called to contribute and to foster, by various means, starting with the leadership set by the executives of the corporation, the continual improvement of our level of service in this regard.
[Translation]
As the Chief Executive Officer of VIA Rail and former co-champion of official languages before I was appointed president, I also consider it my daily duty to be a positive influence to all of the corporation's employees, so that our culture as a public entity providing bilingual service across Canada is strengthened.
[English]
I thank you very much for your attention. I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.
[Translation]
The Chair: I would like to congratulate you, Mr. Desjardins, and your entire team for the exemplary work you are doing to provide bilingual service across the country. Well done. You are really extraordinary, and you are a role model. I would ask Senator Fortin-Duplessis, deputy chair of the committee, to ask the first question.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: First, Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano, I would like to congratulate you on the brief you just presented to us. As I just explained to Mr. Caron, I traveled by VIA Rail this morning from Sainte-Foy to Ottawa, which is now a direct route. The service was excellent, and the employees spoke in both official languages.
I have quick question. Do you support Bill S-205?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: As chief executive officer of VIA Rail, it is not really my role to give my support to a bill. My role today is to testify about the purpose of the bill, which is to provide bilingual services to all Canadians across the country, is something we initiated at VIA Rail on our own, mainly for safety and marketing purposes, and to meet market demand. It is doable. We are satisfied with the efforts we are making, but it is a daily effort, and our corporation's commitment is in line with the purpose of Senator Chaput's bill.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: In your opinion, how does this bill change the existing rights of the travelling public?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: In VIA Rail's case, we do not limit ourselves to arbitrary numeric criteria, but by embracing the commercial imperative of attracting the market, we can eliminate the need to have such an objective criteria. That is why we argue in favour of common sense whereby, if we want to increase the number of Canadian customers, we have to adapt to this market. Since Canada is a bilingual country, it is quite simply logical from a business perspective to meet that obligation.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: How many travellers use VIA Rail every year?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Close to four million people. In 2014, we had 3.8 million passengers.
Senator Maltais: VIA Rail goes beyond its bilingualism obligations under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We hear hardly any bilingualism-related complaints involving VIA Rail. It is to your credit. You are the new president, and you have made very strong commitments. Well done. You are the national carrier, as you said, and Canada has two official languages.
However, I fear that with Bill S-205 — contrary to what some of my colleagues believe — given that you go beyond the Charter in many cases, if Bill S-205 requires you to apply the Charter and only the Charter, we would lose bilingual services, because the sufficient number will not be there. Currently, you do not take into consideration the sufficient number, which is very low, five per cent. Given the number of kilometres of rail you operate, it is non-existent. If you are given an objective that you already exceed, would that not be a step backward? What do you think?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: That is not the way we see it. We agree with the court regarding the two cases mentioned earlier: VIA Rail can go beyond the legislative and regulatory requirements. That is what we have been doing since 1985. Our reading of the bill confirms that for us. We are going to continue to act in the interest of our market, which means making our service offer as attractive as possible. In the context of a mobile service offer like ours, it is important to adapt to the linguistic reality of the country, no matter where it is.
Senator Maltais: But if you were required to respect only the conditions of the Charter, would there not be a risk of stepping backwards?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: We would need to get a legal opinion on that, but the constitutional provision advocates equal treatment of both official languages. Humbly speaking, without further studies, I would say that this is not a concern for me at the moment, and that we could continue to consider both official languages across the country, regardless of the legislative or regulatory framework.
Senator Maltais: But the Supreme Court ruled that the Charter must apply when the number is sufficient. I have asked many people, including former Supreme Court justices, what "sufficient" means, and no one could tell me. I imagine that it means more than one person, but no one ventured to define it, not even the Commissioner of Official Languages or former Justice Bastarache. No one was able to define "sufficient" for me.
That is what the court says. So you are applying a larger number than what the court stipulates. However, if you are limited to applying the Charter, the term "sufficient" could limit you in your expansion of bilingualism. That is my fear: that you will be limited to the Charter alone. I will leave you to your momentum. Keep up the good work, but I would not want you to be limited to the Charter alone.
Senator McIntyre: As a parliamentarian, I travel regularly by train between New Brunswick, my native province, and Ottawa. I would also like to congratulate you on your active offer of service in both official languages.
As you mentioned, Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano, the Commissioner's 2013-14 annual report spoke about VIA Rail's exemplary overall performance and its strong commitment to complying with the Official Languages Act. Do the linguistic obligations differ from station to station, from one route to another? If so, why?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: The obligation is the same across the network, for train routes, stations and call centres. VIA Rail's service offer is bilingual, whether you are on board a train or in a station, or whether you call one of our two call centres, one of which is in Moncton, New Brunswick.
Senator McIntyre: The Kingston station was recently designated bilingual. What is the impact of that designation on the financial and human resources needed to provide services in both official languages at the Kingston station? In other words, did you need to hire bilingual staff, make sure that you had bilingual work tools, provide a bilingual website, and so on?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: The Kingston station's designation did not change anything in its operations. The measure only confirmed what was already in place in terms of bilingual operations. The designation was made after our bilingualism policy was implemented across the network. As for VIA Rail's website or web presence, every aspect of VIA Rail's virtual presence is bilingual as well.
Senator McIntyre: As you mentioned, there have been no complaints to the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages regarding your institution and its implementation of Part IV of the Official Languages Act, at least not this year. Have there been any complaints in the past?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Yes, on occasion, we have received complaints and we quickly corrected the situation, in accordance with the assessment of the commissioner handling those complaints. We responded to the complaints with speed and diligence. Dealing with complaints with speed and diligence is one of VIA Rail's hallmarks. Most often complaints come from unforeseen circumstances, such as applying rules or changes to our procedures, our websites or other mechanical aspects. So we put things right immediately. We have never received complaints about specific VIA Rail policies as a result of which the company was not in compliance with the objectives of the act.
Senator Chaput: To begin with, I would like to reiterate our chair's comments at the beginning of the meeting. I would like to congratulate you and to tell you how extraordinary it is to hear representatives of organizations such as yours tell us that they exceed the requirements of the act, both in the interests of their company and for all kinds of other reasons, including the fact that you do it out of conviction. That is really exceptional. My congratulations. You are a model for many other organizations.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano, you mentioned that your business decisions and everything they include clearly require you to play a leadership role, so that your managers recognize the importance of linguistic duality in Canada and make all possible effort to put those measures into effect. That is a unique commitment and I thank you for it.
Frankly, Bill S-205 is not necessary in your case. You are already going above and beyond its text. I am the bill's sponsor; I introduced it because I believe in it. Many organizations are signing on to this bill so that official language minority communities can receive services in their own languages anywhere in Canada. Unfortunately, in many cases, those communities receive the minimum amount of the services available. VIA Rail provides the maximum amount of those services by going beyond what the legislation requires. I will have another question for you shortly.
I feel a lot of friendship and respect for all my colleagues and I asked the Senate of Canada to allow the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages to hold a public debate on Bill S-205. That is what we are doing at the moment and I am very grateful for that. I appreciate the comments from my colleagues, including the Honourable Senator Dagenais, even though we are not always in agreement. The important factors are the dialogue and the discussion. We will see what happens afterwards. I am not a lawyer or a constitutional expert, but I am not convinced that the Charter imposes restrictions. I believe that it does the opposite, but that is a matter for another day.
I would like to know what kinds of resource people you have available at the moment to serve francophone travellers in stations like Saskatoon, Guelph and Brantford. Are there resource people for francophone travellers in stations like those?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: We have a bilingual resource person in each of our trains and at each of our stations. If that person happens not to be available for any reason, the procedure in our stations is to put clients in contact with an agent in the VIA Rail call centre so that the clients receive services in their own language, just as they would do if the agent were there in person. Usually, one of the station staff is always bilingual. If that bilingual person is not available and no other staff member speaks the other official language, we immediately communicate with the call centre to ensure that clients receive services in their own language.
Senator Chaput: Does the availability of services differ from one place to the other, for example, for travellers arriving at one of the 17 stations that are already designated bilingual? Is there a difference?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: No. All stations have bilingual staff. I was just clarifying what happens when a resource person is not available. As a general rule, at least one bilingual agent is on duty in all stations.
Senator Chaput: According to the most recent national census, the station in Kingston, Ontario, was designated bilingual. It was not beforehand. Did you have to make changes to that station to make sure that the requirements could be complied with? Or were you already able to do that since you were exceeding the requirements in the act?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Exactly so. Kingston station's bilingual designation changed nothing in VIA Rail's practices; we were already going beyond the requirements of the bilingual designation.
Senator Chaput: Have there been any additional costs since the station was officially designated as bilingual?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Not at all.
Senator Chaput: And no transition was necessary because the procedures were already in place.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Exactly.
Senator Chaput: I am blown away. I am not used to hearing news like that. It is excellent, and I thank you for it.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Thank you for your kind words about VIA Rail. While you are favourably disposed to hearing about the practices VIA Rail has put in place, you should know that it is an honour for VIA Rail to hear Senator Chaput, from Manitoba, speaking French. We reap what we sow. As Senator Seidman, from Montreal, said, this is a microcosm of Canada. Likewise, to board a VIA Rail train is to step into a Canadian experience. It is in that spirit that we want to reach out to all Canadians to meet our primary task of convincing Canadians to ride on their national railway.
How can we alienate 23 per cent or 24 per cent of Canadians if we really want to meet Canadians' needs? This is a business challenge that we are addressing by embracing the linguistic origins of Canada's two cultures.
[English]
Senator Seidman: Yes, indeed, to get on a VIA train is to live the Canadian experience; you are quite right. I have done that so many times.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano, what particular challenges has VIA faced with the process they have gone through in implementing this kind of exemplary service? Could you tell us specifically if these challenges have been different in Quebec as you face the kind of service you offer to anglophones compared to that offered to francophones across the rest of the country?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: I was appointed president in May of last year. Prior to that I was the chief legal officer and co-champion for official languages since 2010; so my history is five years old, but I did read the previous briefs so I will ask my colleagues to correct me if I am wrong.
In 1985 the case that brought us before the Federal Court and ultimately the Supreme Court of Canada was a case brought by employees of VIA Rail in Western Canada who felt VIA was discriminating as it was requiring its service managers to be bilingual in its offering of The Canadian between Vancouver and Toronto. That is the case that the court found VIA was being reasonable in requiring that bilingualism, first and foremost, for security reasons in the case of incidents so you can provide support and assistance to passengers and the public, but also because in the commercial environment that VIA Rail operates in, contrary to other government institutions, it must convince its intended public that its service offer meets their needs.
It made sense to the court, as it did VIA Rail's management at the time, that if you're going to attract a large part of Canada's population, as well as display to the world a Canadian experience on a tourism train like The Canadian, that bilingual service was a reasonable requirement for the service manager position, which is the person who runs the customer side of the train operation while the train is moving throughout the country.
That would have been the landmark case, if you will, but it was initiated, as I said, in Western Canada. I don't know if there are other cases that I may have omitted.
That is reflected in the collective agreements we have with our union about the requirement for bilingualism for service managers on board our trains. It has made its way from a management practice, based on commercial and security imperatives, all the way to a collective agreement negotiated provision.
Senator Seidman: The court issues and battles you've had are significant, indeed, and thank you for conveying the essence of it.
What other challenges were associated — and when I say "challenges" I mean difficulties — and what special practices did VIA Rail have to take upon themselves in order to go above and beyond the requirement as far as bilingual services are concerned? Were those challenges different in different parts of the country?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Again, I'll let my colleagues correct me, but I don't believe the challenges were different anywhere across the country.
VIA Rail is an excellent employer, therefore recruiting personnel has never been a challenge. We hope it will remain that way, as we will be replenishing our ranks to the tune of 50 per cent over the next five years.
From a resourcing point of view, it has not been a challenge. From a deployment of services, once you state the direction, which is bilingual services, then everything else falls in line with that principle. For example, in 2012, when we introduced on-board entertainment, providing our passengers with video entertainment on their iPads, laptops or intelligent devices, we had a choice to make in terms of linguistic and content offer. We made the choice, first of all, that it would only be Canadian content from the CBC and the National Film Board, and soon co-productions from Telefilm Canada.
We also decided that, as we put those hours on line, we would put an equal number of francophone and anglophone offers and mirror the offers both from the NFB, L'Office national du film, CBC, Société Radio-Canada, and the same thing with other productions. Last week we put on the Governor General's vignettes and, again, you have a linguistic balance.
Once you set the standards and you base it on the commercial reality of attracting passengers to your service, everything else falls in line. It is, as I said in my introduction, a battle of every day because it's easy to let your guard down and let other practices take hold, but we didn't have that challenge, other than that major challenge at the time in 1985.
Senator Seidman: Basically, it's a philosophy of existence and so it's a culture in the company, is what you're saying.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Correct, and it stems from again, as I said, a concern for safety and security in terms of issues and incidents, but also the particular challenge that VIA Rail, as a Crown corporation, has — contrary to most Crowns — in that it has to convince passengers to get on the train. So it is part of a commercial attitude to have an offer that reflects the potential pool of passengers — and they are, across the country, francophones and anglophones whom we are trying to attract out of their cars and into our trains.
Senator Seidman: All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
[Translation]
The Chair: Before we move to the second round, I would like to ask a question that complements Senator Seidman's.
Some witnesses have told us that it is difficult for them to recruit bilingual staff. That does not seem to be a difficulty for you. Is that so? If not, why?
Laurent F. Caron, Chief Human Resources Officer and Official Languages Co-Champion, VIA Rail Canada: I am happy to answer that question. We actually promote VIA Rail at job fairs all over Canada. We look for bilingual people to fill all our entry-level positions, and we are very successful in doing that. It is not really any more difficult. We look for talented people; that is always the quest, but, in our case, we look for talented bilingual people and, year in and year out, we manage to fill our bilingual positions without too much difficulty.
The Chair: You have no problems in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Manitoba?
Mr. Caron: We have no problem. We hire people in Winnipeg, mostly, then in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. That is where most of our employees are hired. Each year, we manage to fill our positions without too much difficulty.
[English]
Senator McInnis: Thank you very much. I'm a novice on this committee. I'm here subbing for another senator. I was intrigued and certainly pleased with your presentation and what you do for bilingualism.
Back in 1986, you commenced, when you hired an employee they were bilingual, which you are to be applauded for. But what surprises me is that in 2009 there was a challenge. That many years later, I think you said by the union at the time, and that brought a favourable decision from the Federal Court and then of course it went to the Supreme Court. I take it you didn't proceed with it there; they did, I take it.
It's a surprise that there was such a length of time, and here we are in 2009, when bilingualism is accepted across the country, that that challenge would take place so many years later.
The other part of the question was the Supreme Court said that VIA Rail believes that the regulations only set minimal standards with respect to the provision of bilingual services.
Could you explain that, as well?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: As I said in my opening remarks, that was our view, that the fundamental basis is constitutional, the equal treatment of both official languages, and that anything above and beyond that is acceptable. Therefore, the barometer or the measure of 5 per cent, as it then was, was indicative but not compulsory in terms of going beyond that.
That was our view and we were found to be right on that. That is why we've continued to pursue an approach, as Laurent was saying, of hiring bilingual capabilities and ensuring that our service offerings, whether they are on-board entertainment or information to passengers, tickets, in station, in trains or on the phone, always be available in both official languages.
Senator McInnis: But almost a quarter century after you started that, it ends up in court.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Yes. Well, sometimes justice does take time, does it not?
Senator McInnis: No, lawyers are quite quick.
Thank you, madam chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Did you want to add anything?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: No, it's fine.
Senator Chaput: I have to repeat how much I appreciate this public debate at committee. Senator Seidman's comments really struck me.
This commitment to, and recognition of, Canada's linguistic duality is about the culture of the organization. Providing services in both official languages provides economic advantages. The advantages we are talking about are economic. We have to repeat this more often to make our government understand that celebrating our linguistic duality brings economic benefits. It makes the country's economy more dynamic.
As for the Charter, I mentioned earlier that I do not believe that the Charter limits services. The Charter does not demand that services be provided everywhere, but it specifies where they should be provided. However, the Charter is to be interpreted broadly, not restrictively. It does not take away services; on the contrary, it makes it possible for organizations like yours to offer more of them if they wish to. In general, the services offered are at the minimum level, not the maximum level, as you are doing.
I do not know if you will be able to answer my question, but I feel that it is important for me to ask it. What do we have to do to convince the federal institutions mentioned in Bill S-205 to seriously address the matter of providing services in both official languages everywhere in Canada? How can we make them aware of the importance of going beyond what the law requires, instead of doing what is being done at the moment?
Bill S-205 exists out of necessity, because we are very limited. The criteria that establish the francophonie in every corner of Canada are not the reality in 2015, not the reality for my children and grandchildren. It is no longer the same reality it once was. It means that we provide services only where numbers warrant. If the definition is not the right one, we lose. When we belong to an official language minority community, we lose badly.
You have such an important model. What arguments could we use to convince other federal institutions that the minimum is not always enough and that they could make a little more effort? I am not asking them to do the maximum, as you are doing. What arguments would convince them? Honestly, I am all out of arguments.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Senator, I recognize that this is a huge challenge and that these changes take time. Every day is a struggle. It is impossible for me to advise my colleagues on ways to seize the opportunities that arise other than to tell them to be open to the market that is out there and to take advantage of the commercial opportunities.
VIA Rail is an agency of the Government of Canada. So it is easier for us to pursue ideals that are loftier and broader in scope than to limit ourselves to strictly commercial and financial imperatives. That is why being the president and CEO of a Government of Canada crown corporation is a great honour. It is not just about attaining financial profitability and operational reliability; it is also about aiming for the ideals that the government and the lawmakers have set for our country. It is those ideals that we serve each day.
I cannot convince my competitors or my colleagues in other companies other than by telling them that there are commercial and financial advantages and that the steps we have taken reflect the Canadian ideals we are striving for.
Senator Chaput: Thank you. That is a very fair answer.
Senator Maltais: Mr. Caron, could you share your bilingual recruitment approach with Air Canada and the Canadian Airports Council? They have a major problem. It is a disaster for them; it is giving them a nervous breakdown, and they don't know what to do any more.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano, I have one last question for you about security. Over the past two or three years, incidents have taken place around the world — on planes, ships, and even in Parliament. Have you taken any action or are you currently doing so regarding security measures that were previously in place five years ago? I am not as knowledgeable about this as my colleague who takes the train every week. I do not go to train stations. Do you have up-to-date security measures that would help you prevent any pre-boarding incidents?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Do you want me to answer your question?
The Chair: This is not really within the context of our study, but it is up to you, Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: I will answer, as this is an important issue for all Canadians and for our passengers.
VIA Rail has always applied security measures in its rail operations. As a result of events that have taken place over the past few years, we have reviewed our measures. We have actually added some measures to facilitate detection, and ensure prevention and vigilance of operations. We believe that, on a daily basis, the measures implemented so far are an improvement over what we had before. We make sure not to detract from the client's experience and to maintain the freedom of movement and mobility Canadians have always enjoyed in this country while being aware that the security environment has changed.
For example, until just recently, the VIA Rail security directors were railway employees who developed skills over time and were promoted to the position. Two months ago, we hired a former deputy chief of the Montreal police to be our new security director. He has 25 years of experience with a police service, in the area of intelligence, and intelligence services and police networks, not only in Quebec and Canada, but also around the world.
So just that additional level of expertise, which is new at VIA Rail, shows how seriously we are taking the safety of our passengers, our on-board personnel and, of course, the public.
Senator Maltais: In closing, Madam Chair, I presume information is provided to passengers in both official languages?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Always.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: My colleague talked about security, and you said you hired Montreal's chief of police.
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: No, a former deputy chief of police.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Do you have someone on board the train — for example, on the Quebec City to Ottawa trip — in charge of security?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: When it comes to security issues, you will understand that it is important to apply those measures discreetly so as to minimize inconvenience to passengers. I will not tell you how we apply our security measures. What you just talked about is something that happens from time to time. I will not go into the details of how we deploy our security resources.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: I heard that no security measures were being applied on VIA Rail trains. I know that is not the topic of today's meeting, but is it true or false?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: If you were told that there are never any security officers on VIA Rail trains, it is false.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: But are they on all the trains for all the trips?
The Chair: We have to come back to our topic, senator.
Senator Fortin-Duplessis: Okay. Are any stations designated unilingual?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: No. As I said in my opening remarks, all our trains, stations, call centre services and Web content are bilingual, for security and marketing purposes, and also to preserve the VIA Rail brand: VIA Rail for all Canadians.
Senator Chaput: I would like some clarification further to Senator Fortin-Duplessis' question. All the stations provide services in both official languages, but not all stations are officially designated bilingual, correct?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Exactly. If you look at the Burolis register, you will see that some stations are designated bilingual, such as the one in Kingston. Some stations are designated unilingual, but that does not preclude the provision of services in both languages. It is a regulatory designation provided for in the regulations, but for VIA Rail service delivery — in all our stations, trains, call centres and on the Web — our services are available in Canada's both official languages.
The Chair: Some witnesses have told us that additional costs were attached to providing an active offer of service in French; is that the case at VIA Rail?
Mr. Desjardins-Siciliano: Any additional costs are not separate from the rest of our operating costs. Is it more difficult to fill a position with a bilingual employee than with a unilingual employee? Possibly, in some cases. However, it is not broken down in a way that would allow me to tell you that it costs a certain amount more to operate bilingually. We feel that any additional cost is not separate and must be marginal.
As the senator said earlier, this is a matter of company culture, value and brand. For us, being a standard bearer for the Government of Canada is part of our role to provide transportation services to Canadians, by Canadians, by their government. In short, I cannot confirm that it leads to additional costs.
The Chair: I want to offer you my sincerest thanks, on behalf of the committee members, for being here today, and especially for your commitment, your vision and the leadership role you play so that VIA Rail Canada can truly be a living symbol of the Canadian identity.
(The committee continued in camera.)