Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on
Human Rights
Issue no. 6 - Evidence - May 30, 2016
TORONTO, Monday, May 30, 2016
The Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights met this day at 9:03 a.m. to study steps being taken to facilitate the integration of newly-arrived Syrian refugees and to address the challenges they are facing, including by the various levels of government, private sponsors and non-governmental organizations.
Senator Jim Munson (Chair) in the chair.
The Chair: Good morning, everyone. Here we are in a great big room in Toronto, our Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights. I see Mr. Calla has arrived, which is perfect timing. We certainly have a busy agenda today.
We are excited to be in Toronto. Our committee has had a number of meetings in Ottawa dealing with Syrian refugees adapting to Canada, and we are continuing our study on the steps being taken to facilitate the integration of newly arrived Syrian refugees and to address the challenges they are facing.
I would like to have my colleagues introduce themselves so we all know who we are. This committee likes to have a conversation. This is not an interrogation; this is a conversation. We are trying to get more information and understanding of the good situation we are in in this country.
I will start with our deputy chair.
Senator Ataullahjan: Salma Ataullahjan from Ontario.
Senator Ngo: Senator Ngo from Ottawa, Ontario.
Senator Hubley: Elizabeth Hubley from Prince Edward Island.
The Chair: My name is Jim Munson. I have been chairing this committee for the last few months, and I consider it an honour and privilege to be part of this committee.
We have four witnesses in our first panel this morning. The first witness we have is Mario J. Calla, Executive Director if COSTI Immigrant Services. We also have, from Lifeline Syria, Malaz Sebai, Board Director; from the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants, Alexander Vadala, Senior Coordinator, Policy & Research; and from the Muslim Welfare Centre of Toronto, Muhammad Rehan, General Manager.
Whoever is prepared to speak, please go ahead, and then we will open to questions over the next hour.
Mr. Calla, go right ahead.
The Chair: Excuse me. Senator Omidvar has just come in. She is one of our esteemed new independent senators.
Introduce yourself, please.
Senator Omidvar: And a late independent senator. It is always easier to be on time in committee meetings in Ottawa than it is in my own hometown, so I apologize.
The Chair: Thanks for being with us this morning.
We do have a nine-member committee, but the Senate can be a busy place, believe it or not.
Mr. Calla.
Mario J. Calla, Executive Director, COSTI Immigrant Services: Good morning, honourable senators. It is my pleasure to be here this morning to address this issue of the Syrian refugee project. I do understand that our time will be spent in discussion, so I will just make a very brief opening statement and then, of course, I am happy to enter into the discussion and answer any questions.
As Senator Munson introduced me, my name is Mario Calla, and I am the Executive Director of COSTI Immigrant Services. COSTI has had a relationship with this project since the beginning. COSTI itself is a charitable organization providing settlement and integration services to immigrants in the Toronto area, and we have been around since 1952.
We serve about 39,000 immigrants a year. We operate out of 17 locations throughout Toronto, York Region and Peel, and we provide a broad range of settlement services to newcomers, including English language training, employment counselling, accommodation for refugees, family and mental health counselling and settlement counselling programs, to name a few.
COSTI is the federal government's service delivery agent in Toronto for the resettlement of government-assisted Syrian refugees. We have resettled over 1,800 Syrian refugees since last December. The last family with this cohort of refugees moved out of temporary accommodation just over a week ago.
We learned many things through this intense initiative, but I would like to take this opportunity to briefly highlight two things that stood out for us. First, the most challenging part of this initiative was finding affordable housing for the newcomers. It took an average of five-and-a-half weeks to move the newcomers from temporary accommodations into their own homes. More significantly, the rental costs are in excess of 50 per cent of their income. It is generally accepted that for housing to be affordable, it should consume less than 30 per cent of a person's income.
It is clear from COSTI's broader housing services that the availability of affordable housing is a challenge for all Canadians of limited economic means. The Syrian refugee project has focused the lens on how serious a problem this is. We urge the Canadian government to develop a national housing strategy that can begin to address the unavailability of affordable housing in major centres in Canada.
Second, the Syrian refugee project has unleashed in Canadians a level of generosity and volunteerism that has rarely been seen. COSTI worked with 13 mosques, two churches and three community groups who befriended 150 Syrian families and helped them with household start-up kits and ongoing support. Another 30 community organizations organized children's programs in the five hotels. Donations of clothing and toys were managed by another organization that was formed spontaneously by a group of volunteers. Additionally, over 300 volunteers provided interpretation, escorted people to medical appointments, and did housing searches.
COSTI could not have effectively succeeded in resettling these 1,800 newcomers without this level of support from the community. It is clear that a community that collectively cares for its vulnerable is a healthier and more cohesive community. The government should take care to promote through its policies the involvement and participation of civil society.
The challenge going forward is in sustaining this level of community participation both with government-assisted and privately sponsored refugees. We urge the government to support resettlement initiatives that directly involve civil society, and we recommend the expeditious processing of private sponsorship applications to further promote the involvement of private sponsors.
Again, I think you for the opportunity to speak to you this morning, and I look forward to our discussion.
The Chair: Thank you very much for your testimony. Interesting; and I am sure there will be questions on a national housing strategy to see how that would work.
Next is Malaz Sebai from Lifeline Syria. Sir, thanks for being here.
Malaz Sebai, Board Director, Lifeline Syria: Thank you very much. Just like the Senate committee, we at Lifeline Syria are also a bit informal, so I will speak off the cuff.
Lifeline Syria was formed just over about a year-and-a-half ago when a group of committed citizens came together and felt compelled to address the largest humanitarian crisis the world has faced since the Second World War. It was composed of thought leaders from across society, people in the non-profit world, the for-profit realm, academics, politicians, people from all walks of life who really wanted to address this issue.
We decided to approach it with two primary focuses: One, to focus on the sponsorship of Syrian refugees, and second, to make private sponsorship more accessible for the Canadian public. Canada is the only country where private sponsorship is possible, so it is a great opportunity and a great responsibility.
It is also a very complex process. That is why, essentially, we looked at all the services available in the community. Lifeline Syria was specifically created to be a new type of organization, one that can hopefully change how private sponsorship works in this country, not just for this crisis but for crises moving forward.
There are many different players and stakeholders when it comes to private sponsorship. You have the government, the sponsorship community, the settlement community. What was missing is a bridging organization, one who can bring all these parties together and provide the Canadian public with the means, support and resources to make their job easier to help with sponsorship.
We originally formed before the Canadian public will was really, you know, behind this national project, so it was a challenge. Then a picture emerged that changed everything, and as Mario alluded to, the outpouring of support was simply remarkable.
Over the months that we really got down to work, truthfully, we moved a little slower than others, and I think this, in hindsight, actually made a lot of sense. We established a very new organization, trying to do something that was never done before to fill in this gap. Unlike people on the sponsorship side or settlement side that were only focusing on one area, we were trying to do both simultaneously.
Over the months that passed, we had tremendous success. When we originally started, we had a modest goal to bring a thousand refugees to Canada, not unlike Operation Lifeline back in 1979 to 1982 in the Indochinese crisis, who also had a modest goal and, after four years, resulted in over 60,000 newcomers to Canada. We are very much following a similar path where we had a modest goal of a thousand, and I believe we are expecting to receive somewhere close to 40,000 Syrians in Canada by the end of the year. To date, we have helped to facilitate over 850 refugees who are now part of the system, and we have over 2,000 who are still waiting to get through.
We are facing some large challenges right now. Thanks to the tremendous effort by the Canadian government — really, one can argue, unparalleled in our history — in taking on this massive effort, but there has been a slowdown. That slowdown will allow us, inevitably, to recalibrate, to take lessons learnt to see how we can move forward.
However, this slowdown has affected us in a couple of ways. Number one is that, unfortunately, the primary path to providing sponsorship is to use sponsorship agreement holders, and their numbers have been capped for the rest of the year. Our message to the government has always been clear: Don't place a cap on Canadian compassion. If Canadians want to step forward, make it easy. Make it accessible. If they are willing to take on the burden, the responsibility and the opportunity, let's make it easy for them.
This cap has restricted our ability to process new applications over the course of 2016. However, we feel fairly confident that this is part of a long-term strategy, and those doors will open a little wider once again moving into the future. The second is there wasn't just a cap on accessing new applications but also a slowdown in the number of refugees arriving. That has made it somewhat more challenging to identify new potential sponsors who want to move forward.
After experiencing the first wave of people who wanted to get involved, I think we are on the cusp of a second wave, and that wave is going to happen with arrivals. As people start to arrive, they will see how remarkable these people are, how similar they are to us and the adversity that they have experienced. We believe that that will galvanize the Canadian public to step forward in much greater numbers moving forward.
Hopefully we will see these two issues addressed. One of the things that I always say is: Yes, we have had this massive effort — 25,000 in just a few short months — but mark my words, this is just the beginning and there are still great things ahead.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Malaz.
Our third witness this morning is Alexander Vadala, from the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants. Welcome.
Alexander Vadala, Senior Coordinator, Policy & Research, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants: Good morning, honourable senators.
The Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants represents the collective voice of immigrant- and refugee- serving organizations in Ontario, and we have over 213 member agencies across the province. OCASI is supportive of the government's decision to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees in Canada. In fact, we joined our ten sister umbrella organizations across Canada to issue a news release in December 2015 to affirm the support of the national immigrant- and refugee-serving sector for this initiative.
We are proud of the way our sector stepped up to meet the challenge, sometimes at personal cost to many of the frontline workers who went above and beyond. OCASI acknowledges there were challenges overall, including for our sector, and there are aspects of our programs, delivery and structure that need to be strengthened.
Despite all the challenges, we believe this experience demonstrated our strength. It demonstrated the value we provide through services and programming, through strengthening community capacity and leadership and in supporting individuals and families on their journey to becoming Canadian, in nation building.
In September 2015, we collectively issued a set of recommendations on how Canada should respond to the Syrian refugee crisis. We believe those recommendations are still relevant, even more so today. I will mention some of them here.
The first is improving family linked admissions. Flexible measures such as temporary resident permits should be introduced for Syrians with family in Canada.
Number two is regarding the 10,000 government-assisted refugees that were supposed to be admitted by the end of 2015. We recommended that 10,000 government-assisted refugees be admitted by the end of 2015, and we are happy to see that the government exceeded that number. However, the fact that the government shut down the infrastructure after reaching the 25,000 target left a bad taste and threatened the goodwill that had been created among the Canadian public. We welcome the announcement that these resources are to be restored.
Regarding the facilitation of private sponsorship of Syrians, the government has supported the efforts of private sponsors, including restoring full access to Ontario and federal health coverage to privately sponsored refugees. The risk of large medical costs no longer deters sponsors. However, much more can be done, particularly reducing the red tape for sponsorship applications and faster processing of applications, as mentioned earlier.
Regarding the need for a dramatic increase in resources, the government must allocate significantly more resources — human, financial and logistical — in order to realize these recommendations. In particular, it should allocate more resources for processing, allocate additional resources to overseas visa offices so that refugees can arrive quickly, alleviate the pressure on visa offices by transferring some of the overseas processing of visas to an office in Canada, and it should continue to provide timely information through government websites as well as by setting up a hotline to answer questions and facilitate processing. At present, much of the burden of providing information is taken up by community-based organizations and groups that are often not resourced to do this work.
On the importance of maintaining responses to other refugees, we strongly urge the committee to respond to meet the needs of other refugees, including the many refugees from sub-Saharan Africa who are in precarious situations in the Middle East and Europe. They should receive the same courtesies that are given to Syrian refugees.
In addition to refugee resettlement, there is an urgent need to fast-track family reunification for Syrian refugees as well as refugees from other countries.
OCASI believes that there are additional priorities that need to be taken into consideration going forward. Canadians have opened their hearts, minds, their homes, their communities to create a space for so many people to be involved in refugee resettlement. This should be supported by government.
The resettlement experience has highlighted for the immigrant- and refugee-serving sector the many challenges that still need to be addressed and the gaps we have to fill such as the lack of formal coordinating systems, including for service delivery and case management.
We see several areas for improvement, including: the need for more funding and for it to flow faster; the need for more resources and information to support the work, and the need for improved communication between government and the sector at all levels.
In Ontario, we are thankful that the provincial government made its funding commitment several months before the federal government, allowing many service delivery organizations to prepare their capacity. Six years of federal funding cuts to settlement have had a detrimental impact on the sector, including capacity, especially in trained and experienced staff. Organizations needed to revamp, and it took time.
The Syrian refugee resettlement initiative highlighted the critical need for investment in social housing and the need for strategy and action on a national housing initiative, as Mario mentioned earlier. It further highlighted the need for a poverty reduction strategy, including increasing social assistance rates, the monthly income that is given to government-assisted refugees. It has also highlighted the need for rent subsidies.
We ask you to recommend that the government immediately end the transportation loan scheme, which only serves to further impoverish a group that is already facing significant financial challenges.
The Syrian refugee resettlement initiative highlighted the need for affordable and appropriate childcare, more language classes for different levels of learners and different service times outside of the usual daytime classes in many more locations.
Finally, the experience highlighted the ongoing need for public education on anti-Islamophobia, anti-xenophobia and anti-racism. We are happy that the City of Toronto and the province and other stakeholders such as the Red Cross have stepped up to counter the narrative of exclusion. The federal government must also step up by mounting a public education campaign on Canada's refugee and humanitarian programs as well as issues of racism and discrimination.
Thank you very much for your attention.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Vadala.
Now, from the Muslim Welfare Centre of Toronto, Muhammad Rehan, General Manager. Welcome, sir.
Muhammad Rehan, General Manager, Muslim Welfare Centre of Toronto: Thank you.
The Muslim Welfare Centre was established in1993 and has been working as a charity for 23 years, basically in Toronto. Two seniors started the organization with a small food bank. Today, the food bank serves 13,000 clients, and also our mode of service is based on humanity and our service to Allah/God. We serve all of those who are needy, irrespective of religion, nationality, caste or creed. Whoever comes to our food banks, we serve them.
Also, we have very diverse services. We have the food bank; we have shelter; we have a free medical clinic for those who are not covered by OHIP, such as refugees as well as new immigrants, visitors, students. We also have overseas projects, and now we are also working for seniors' homes specifically for Muslim background people.
From the Syrian refugees' perspective, we are supporting them through food banks. We have two halal food banks in Scarborough as well as in Mississauga. Some of the refugees also want to go to our free medical clinic, so they are getting help there as well.
Before Syrian refugees, we have 30 clients per day and serve about 11,000 clients in the year. Since about four months or five months ago, Syrian refugees are mostly coming to our food banks. They are depending on our food banks.
Up to now, we registered 364 families. I would say that more than 1,500 family members are registered with our food banks, and before we had 30 clients per day. Now 90 clients per day are visiting our food banks, so we have enormous pressure on our operation. We have to purchase food supplies because we are not funded by any government agencies, especially our food bank. We are not funded by any government agencies. All donations come from local, small donors and are community based.
Before, I would say we had an approximate budget to run the food bank of about $750,000, but now, since the inception, we have more help, more than $1.1 million we budgeted to cope with this kind of pressure because, like, our food bank is providing halal meat items and halal groceries.
So, they are mostly the Syrian refugees looking for halal items, and they are coming from private sponsorship or government sponsorship. They try to get the food on a monthly basis from Muslim Welfare Centre food banks.
On top of that, the donations we normally rely on are also shrinking in that situation because a lot of organizations are working on different projects, so we are looking for the funds. We are looking at expanding our food banks because the cost of the food banks is rising.
Last Ramadan, we prepared 2,000 food bags because of the holy month of Ramadan, but this year our target is 4,000 food bags. Last year it cost us around $100,000, but this year it is going to cost us $250,000, and these food bags are not being distributed in Toronto. We are going to distribute them in Hamilton, the Niagara Falls region, Oshawa, Mississauga, Etobicoke, all these locations. This is the kind of help the Muslim Welfare Centre is providing through its social service projects.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
We have heard some of the arguments before, but we have heard some new things this morning which I am sure will engage senators in conversation. We will start off with the vice chair, Senator Ataullahjan.
If you don't want to answer, it's fine, but if you do, that's great.
Senator Ataullahjan: Thank you, all of you, for your submissions this morning.
Mr. Rehan, you said you were serving 90 clients per day now where you were used to serving 30. The surge in numbers, is that primarily Syrian refugees?
Mr. Rehan: Yes, primarily Syrian refugees. Before, like, we have regular low-income clients, single family clients, but then the Syrian refugees arrived in Toronto, Mississauga or Hamilton area. Before we ran only five days in the week. Now we are running six days in the week, seeing a difference of between 30 to 45, and 10 or 15 clients every day are Syrian refugees.
Senator Ataullahjan: My question is to all of you. I don't know if you have seen the previous testimony before this committee. We had been hearing from newspaper stories that refugees were going to food banks because they didn't have enough food. I asked a question of the Immigration Minister, who said that there was a cultural element to it, that they were used to getting free food in the camps and that that is why a lot of these refugees are going to food banks. Is there any truth in that statement? I would like all of you to answer, please.
Mr. Calla: Not in my experience with this group. There is an element — I don't know if it has been addressed with your committee — that needs to be clarified. We know that the allowance, the income that the refugees get is minimal, and they need to survive on that for the 12 months.
When we work with them in deciding what housing is affordable for them, we work into that calculation, given how difficult the affordable housing niche is, the Child Tax Benefit that they will be receiving, and the Child Tax Benefit can be significant. It has made a great difference to people of limited income. The problem is that the Child Tax Benefit doesn't kick in for three months after application. Given that their income is being eaten up by rent, it is not surprising that there has been a surge in visits to food banks. In fact, many of the 15 faith communities that COSTI has been working with have put together food hampers, start-up kits and her other supports so they can survive these first three months. I think that what we are currently seeing in the food banks will subside as they settle in, the Child Tax Benefit kicks in, and, of course, as they find jobs.
Mr. Sebai: Mario has hit on the key points as to why, and I think this issue is especially highlighted in the major urban centres like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. The allowance is standard, flat across the entire country while in cities like Toronto expenses are much greater, and there is really no allowance for that. If housing takes up a huge chunk of your income, inevitably that will leave less disposable income available for food. If there was some degree or flexibility in the allowance for major urban centres, that would help to ease some of the pressure.
Mr. Vadala: I would like to echo the arguments made by my colleagues. I believe this has to do more with the support given to government-assisted refugees, basically, especially in big, urban areas. The rent cost, housing cost is so high that government-assisted refugees have very little left by the end of the day, and, therefore, it has to do with the support given to government-assisted refugees.
Also, this calls for a poverty reduction strategy at the national level. It calls for arguments about increasing the minimum wage. We know that refugees and First Nations are disproportionately affected by poverty, and, therefore, these issues need to be taken into account.
Mr. Rehan: Syrian refugees are mostly Muslims. They have a halal food choice as well, and halal food is very expensive in GTA. Their allowance is not that much. I spoke with some Syrian refugees, and they are very hard workers. They are looking for jobs as well. Jobs — because of the language barriers — are not that easy to get. They are looking for halal food or food banks as well.
The Chair: Senator Ngo.
Senator Ngo: We know that children and youth have different needs for integration into the Canadian systems. Many children have missed school for years and have mental health issues as a result of the war and their refugee experience.
What do you see as the unique challenges these refugees, the youth and the children, face in Canada? Do you have any successful programs that assist in this kind of integration for those children and youth?
Mr. Calla: Perhaps I can address that issue because it has been a concern for us, and we have seen it in the hotels. We have lived with the refugees over the past three to five months in the hotels. My response needs to be balanced with the reality that the vast majority of these children are well-adjusted, resilient, doing well.
We had a picnic on Saturday for the Syrian refugees — Malaz was there — and I saw a family that had been at one of the hotels and said hello. Four children — a wonderful, wonderful story — and they spoke some English, so they have a bit of a head start. They are in Scarborough. Their oldest, the 19-year old has just been accepted by U of T in the health sciences program. She is on track for medicine, and they have only been here two-and-a-half months. I asked their 14-year old in grade 9 how he is adjusting and if he is making friends. He said he has got lots of friends. He said, "Most of my friends are Chinese, so I am taking Chinese lessons to learn to speak the language.'' How Canadian. This is what we are starting to see.
However, at the same time, when you have, you know, a generation of children that comes out of conflict, that has spent two to three years in suspended animation, out of school, in a second country, issues arise. What we saw in the hotels, in our clinics were older children that were bedwetting, children sleeping under their beds out of fear. We did see issues of post-traumatic stress.
What we are doing about it is this: Most of these things — mental health, children's services — are provincial jurisdiction, and the province does have a special table for Syrian refugees, co-chaired by the Minister of Health and the Minister of Immigration. I sit at that table, and I have raised these issues. They are following up through the various ministries and the school boards.
We have programs such as the art therapy program for children, very successful. In Toronto we are blessed to have the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture that provides psychiatric, social work, counselling and intervention. We are working with the school boards and with the various mental health facilities to ensure that needs of this generation of children are met and these issues are caught.
Mr. Sebai: I will just make a couple of quick comments in my capacity as a Syrian Canadian who has been involved in both international relief as well as with the settlement and sponsorship of refugees. We need to remember that the people coming over have had varying degrees of exposure. Some people have come out of the conflict as recent as a few months ago, and others have come out having spent a few years inside the camps.
There is a whole range of issues. I think Mario hit on many of them. The one thing that I will really comment on is providing some words of caution. Typically when they first arrive there is still a period of adjustment. They have been in suspended animation. They come here to, you know, the hotels, a new environment. There is so much going on that people are still trying to stabilize.
The real issues really surface a few months on. After life starts to become normal, that is typically when we will start to see more mental health issues and a lot more issues will surface. Ensuring that those services are available immediately as they arrive will probably help to soften the challenges that will arrive a few months later once life has kind of normalized a bit.
Senator Ngo: If that is the case, does your organization receive sufficient funding to provide those kinds of services?
Mr. Sebai: I will speak very briefly to that. Lifeline Syria, again, is in a unique position. We are a bridging organization; we are not involved in settlement services. My colleagues would probably be better suited to answer that. We understand these issues, and we provide support to our sponsors. We let them know that these issues should be of concern to you. These are the resources available. Please ensure that the families that you are supporting have access to these resources.
Then we refer them to agencies such as COSTI, who is also a settlement agency, the Muslim Welfare Centre and others. We highlight the issues and send them to places that have those resources, but we don't provide those services ourselves.
Mr. Vadala: At OCASI, we are grateful for the support we received from the province regarding training with Hong Fook Mental Health Association and CCVT, the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture. As I speak today, we are holding training for frontline workers on trauma and refugee mental health services. We are training them regarding issues around mental health and migration; early signs and symptoms of mental illness; you know, what settlement workers, frontline staff can do with clients with mental health issues and so on. This is just some of the work that we do in collaboration with our member agencies.
Mr. Rehan: We are not getting any funding, and we are using our own resources to cope with this enormous pressure of helping through the food banks. As I said earlier, like 20 to 30 per cent of the cost of the food bank is operational cost. It has increased, and we are definitely looking for some funding to cover off this cost.
It is not only a one-day service. It is going to be continued after this agreement between COSTI and, like, the Syrian refugees which has only one year. After one year, what's going to happen? We don't know. We know, like, after one year, they will be looking more and more towards the food banks, so we are definitely looking for some kind of support.
Senator Ngo: You just raised an issue I want to ask about. Private sponsorship or the government-assisted program, they end after one year.
Mr. Rehan: One year, yes.
Senator Ngo: What will happen in the thirteenth month? Do you give up, or do you continue on your own, or what?
Mr. Rehan: We see the pressure within three months, so after 13 months, we will see a lot of pressure.
The Chair: One year certainly can't be the end. That has to be the real beginning, I would think, but we will come back to that question.
Senator Omidvar.
Senator Omidvar: I have a couple of completely unrelated questions. Will you tolerate two or just one at a time?
The Chair: Two.
Senator Omidvar: Thank you.
My question is to Mario and Alexander. Toronto and your agencies have had experience with refugees before the Syrian refugees came. We have welcomed Kosovars in the 1990s. Before that, we welcomed Somalis, and we have had waves of refugees before. Outside of the compressed time frame and the numbers, do you see anything in the integration of Syrian refugees that is significantly different from the integration of other refugees in the past?
Mr. Calla: No, not really. They are going to have the same challenges of learning English, finding jobs and settling in, and we are already seeing that. The process is the same for most refugees.
We do see some differences among the different refugee groups. It is a question of how much access they have had to, let's say, English language training and that sort of thing. With this group, we are even seeing some differences between the privately sponsored and the government-assisted refugees.
Government-assisted refugees are chosen primarily on the basis of their vulnerability, and less than 10 per cent speak either of the official languages; whereas with the privately sponsored, over 60 per cent speak English and have higher education, so there are those kinds of distinctions.
What that means is that some will hit the ground running faster than others. In terms of the difference between previous cohorts of refugees and the Syrian refugees, there is not much. We are getting them into English classes. You know, they are starting to look for jobs, and the services are there for them.
Mr. Vadala: At OCASI, we do not provide direct services to refugees, but what we hear from our member agencies is that it is, first of all, too soon to tell, and second, compared to previous cohorts, not much difference so far.
Perhaps we need to focus a bit more on education given the difficulties in languages and the fact that not many speak either English or French, and also in terms of literacy issues in general, but other than that, we will have to learn as we go.
I want to raise one more issue with regard to funding. Integration actually begins now. The real work actually begins now, and it is going to take a lot longer. Perhaps it is a good time also to think about federal funding The settlement funding formula, as you probably know, is based on a three-year rolling average. We have learned from this crisis that it does not reflect the realities on the ground. It needs to be amended. Ontario experienced funding cuts this year despite the fact that we received over 10,000 refugees, and perhaps this is something that could be raised later.
Senator Omidvar: I have a completely different question, and anyone can answer.
I believe, as our minister said last week in Ottawa, that the welcome of Syrian refugees in Canada will go down as a defining nation-building moment in this decade, but part of that nation-building is keeping Canadians on-side and not necessarily treating people significantly different.
You have all said that the cost of housing in urban or rural centres, the cost of food in urban or rural centres is too high for refugees to meet with their government-assisted refugee allowance which is pitched and geared to provincial rates. There is inequality of treatment. I have heard all of you say the money is not enough and they need more.
Are you suggesting, possibly, that there should be differential treatment? What about Canadians who are poor, who live in social housing, who don't have access to social housing, who have to go to food banks? What about them? Are you suggesting we raise the bar for everyone or just for the Syrians refugees? I am curious to hear what you have to say.
Mr. Calla: I think that is an important question, and I am definitely not suggesting a different approach for the Syrian refugees. I do think that Canadians, while they have supported this initiative very, very strongly, also have a very strong sense of equity, and they wouldn't want one group having advantage. That is why, when I spoke about the housing piece, my recommendation is not necessarily to increase the allowance of the refugees if other Canadians are getting the same levels of social assistance, but rather to address that issue for all Canadians.
If you look at Ontario housing, 168,000 people are on waiting lists. In York region just to the north of us, which is one of the fastest-growing regions in the country, in the last 10 years only 2 per cent of housing starts have been rental. In Mississauga, it is moving backwards in that new housing starts are primarily condos, replacing about 75 rental units a year. The issue is a Canadian one. It is not for refugees.
My approach is: Let's address some of the fundamental, systemic issues that are affecting all Canadians, and when you raise that tide, it raises all boats, as they say.
Senator Hubley: Thank you very much, and welcome to you all. I did have a follow-up to Senator Ngo's questions, but I will get to that later perhaps.
On the mental health issues and the availability of resources to address that, in most instances, we hear that mental health issues have a time frame to them. There are waiting periods for interviews and then another waiting period before counselling steps in.
Mr. Calla, you mentioned that there is a special mental health board that is addressing the Syrians in particular; is that correct?
Mr. Calla: Not specific to mental health. There is a special provincial government table that is looking at all issues regarding Syrians. At this table the various relevant ministries are represented. The Ministry of Education, for example, will follow up on issues that are raised around the education of children.
The Ministry of Health has been following up on the mental health issues, the issue there being that the mental health system in Ontario is stretched at the best of times. We have been trying to address this issue specifically to ensure that these children primarily, and the adults, get a good start here in Canada by having these issues addressed.
There is some movement. The province has just put out a call to settlement agencies for proposals around any of the issues that we are seeing.
Senator Hubley: On the education challenges, getting young children into nursery schools or day-cares and kindergarten, is that an issue that you are facing?
Mr. Calla: No. We have not seen that. It has gone fairly smoothly. The school boards have been more than prepared for this. In fact, they came forward and provided busing to the schools while the children were in the hotels. That was a tremendous help to everyone. The kids are getting into school.
Senator Hubley: I just have quick questions that are kind of spinning off some of the other questions that have been asked, Mr. Chair, if you don't mind.
Someone mentioned the transportation loan. Are there other debts that they incur that have to be repaid? Is there a health exam debt that has to be repaid? Could you tell me about that, please?
Mr. Vadala: I do not have details about the exact mechanics of the transportation loans, but as far as I know, many refugees also have to pay interest. Canada is one of the few countries that charges that. It is about time perhaps not to increase further the poverty level of refugees in Canada and to give them a better start.
Perhaps some of my colleagues can address the issue.
Mr. Sebai: Yes, there are two sources of debt that they face: one is the travel, and the second is the medical exams they need to take prior to being screened to come to Canada. There is somewhat of a running joke in the sponsorship community, which is: "How do we welcome refugees to Canada? With debt.''
Many of these people are coming from very impoverished and, you know, kind of the worst situations. I think it is interest-free maybe for the first year, and then they really need to repay it. All of the people that I have talked to are very concerned about this. I mean, income is already tight. We are telling them, "Focus on integration before you look at employment,'' and knowing that they have this looming responsibility causes a great deal of stress.
We were very happy to see that the government waived it briefly for only the Syrian refugees, and we would welcome this being removed permanently, not just for Syrian refugees but for all refugees moving forward.
The travel loan, I believe, caps out at $10,000, so it could be a fairly significant expense for refugees.
Senator Hubley: I believe they have, what, six months before they have to start repayment? Is that it or is it a year?
Mr. Sebai: I believe it is a year.
Senator Hubley: It is still a lot of money to have to come up with.
I have one more quick question.
The formula was mention, the three-year rolling average. It obviously doesn't address any of the peaks and valleys of our immigration system. How does that impact on the work that you are trying to do for them?
Mr. Vadala: We can take the example of this year. I believe Ontario received a reduction in the settlement funding. Had it not been for the additional $10 or $15 million that was set aside for Syrian refugees, there would have been a huge problem.
Even with the addition of 10,000 more clients, more or less, the amount that we received, including the support for Syrians, did not increase compared to last year. Therefore, you know, the formula looks a bit backward. It is based on the last three years. It does not take into account new refugee movement and settlement issues such as the current example of Syrian refugees. Therefore, it is probably time to change that.
Many member agencies had to reduce staffing last year, for example, as a result of the funding cuts. The funding cuts for Ontario for the last five years had a tremendous impact in the sector. We lost many experienced staff members and when something like this happens, agencies struggle to recruit and get back on their feet to provide the urgent services that are needed. That is one of the reasons why we should change it.
Senator Hubley: Thank you.
The Chair: You talked about the idea of learning English as a second language. I, along with other couples in Ottawa, have sponsored a family. I am pleased to report that Nahim, Mohammed, Faras, Abudi, 10, nine, seven, five, the first words they learned in English — because I taught them how to skate and play some hockey — were "He shoots. He scores.'' I had to put that on the record.
Mr. Calla: I would have hoped it would have been "Go Leafs Go,'' Senator Munson.
The Chair: That is going to take us some time.
I have two questions which are important for our study from a human rights lens.
We have heard that women have a harder time going to training and looking for work because of childcare needs. You see it a lot. In some of the families you talk about, the men say, "It is the mother's responsibility.'' — as opposed to a shared responsibility. It is a unique thing that we are experiencing with some families in Ottawa.
I would like to get your comments on that issue. What should be done to improve the integration of Syrian women?
I have another question for you to think about that is also important for our study. We have heard, generally, recommendations to increase communications between government and organizations. We have heard that a lot, so what specific mechanisms need to be put into place?
All four of you don't have to answer, but if you feel comfortable please go ahead on either of those two questions.
Mr. Calla: On the accessibility of services by women, accessing English classes is an issue. We have been fortunate in the Toronto region in that the waiting lists for English classes have been manageable, but where it has been difficult is with LINK, the federal program that offers childcare, and usually those are full. The provincial ones do not have childcare as part of the ESL offering. The federal ones do, and most of the families that have preschoolers will go into those classes. Unfortunately, it is much more difficult to get into those classes, so that is a challenge.
Mr. Sebai: One of the elements that I would add is a need for cultural training, education and awareness. You know, society over there is different from society over here.
I would say that men, predominantly, kind of are in the workforce more so than women. It is a little more distributed or equal here in Canada versus maybe over there Cultural awareness and training would help them to understand that there is a changing reality in order to be able to cope here in Canada, especially with the need for two incomes. They need to understand that women need to participate in different levels of society just as much as the men do. I think this is a great place to invest more resources.
Mr. Vadala: With regard to the second issue of communication, especially government communication, perhaps we can refer back to the Kosovo crisis when a government hotline was created. This could be a means to facilitate the flow of information, a hotline to answer questions and facilitate processing. At present, much of the burden rests with community based organizations and groups that do not, again, receive funding for this purpose specifically.
Mr. Rehan: I have a colleague, my friend Firaaz Azeez, who wants to talk about this.
Mohammad Firaaz Azeez, Special Project Manager, Muslim Welfare Centre of Toronto: First of all, esteemed senators, thank you so very much for giving the Muslim Welfare Centre this opportunity. I must humbly apologize. I had this in my calendar for Tuesday, not Monday, so hurriedly coming from the East End — you know what Toronto traffic is like — I caught, it seems, every single minor accident there possibly could be.
Just a couple of comments. First of all, I want to acknowledge my colleagues here at the table, and I want to thank Rehan for giving us kind of a general perspective of the Muslim Welfare Centre in terms of our interaction with Syrian refugees.
I would like to remind you that, at the end of the day, Syrian refugees, like any other refugees, have come to our country, and we want to give them a great opportunity to succeed. I myself was a refugee many, many years ago from a small little country known as Guyana in South America. Usually when I say "Guyana,'' they say "Africa?'' I say "No, not Ghana but Guyana.'' You just mention Brazil, and everybody knows what I am talking about.
We want to give our colleagues and our friends and our neighbours an opportunity to succeed, so I guess our experience at the Muslim Welfare Centre is somewhat unique in that they are coming to us because that very basic need of food is not being met. One of the challenges that we have face beyond, of course, the language barriers, is the role of women. The folks who are coming to our food bank are primarily women and their kids. The men are not coming.
We are having these conversations in the food bank around their needs, and they are really complex needs. I heard mention of mental health earlier. I guess I just want to put into perspective that a small charity, a grassroots charity like the Muslim Welfare Centre has already seen, as Brother Rehan has mentioned, almost 400 families who have accessed our services in a very short period of time. That is significant for a small charity even though we had almost 12,000 visits last year or here in Mississauga and in Scarborough.
I guess I want us to think about — not suggesting, Senator Omidvar, about making special accommodations for Syrian refugees in terms of the allocation that is given to them — but understanding that, as Alexander has said and as my colleague Malaz has said, these folks are coming from a very different perspective overseas, and then they are being thrust, if you will, into the Canadian psyche. They are having to come and line up or maybe book an appointment at a local food bank so that they can access their primary needs.
It is very humbling to me to see that, to be quite honest with you, because I am a father. I have two young boys, and I live in one of the 'hoods in Malvern in the East End, in a priority neighbourhood. We do a lot of programming there, and when we see these people, we say, "Welcome to Canada.'' Then they have to get into a queue and discuss their needs, with the very little English they have or through an interpreter. Then we have to load them up, so to speak, to take away groceries so that they can kind of manage themselves, and I am not so sure how much opportunity we are giving them to succeed as Canadians.
That was just our perspective today. We wanted to give you a sense of on-the-ground, and we would welcome the opportunity for our distinguished and esteemed senators to visit some of our locations and to actually interact with some of our neighbours who were welcomed into Canada to really get a firsthand perspective of what they are going through. It is extremely difficult, and I can't imagine how they are managing.
Certainly, one of the most amazing things — to speak to what Mario said earlier — is there is a great deal of resiliency. I am perhaps not old enough to have been involved in some of the previous refugee waves that have come to Canada — I myself being one — but certainly what I have seen is that this group is extremely resilient, extremely hopeful, and it is wonderful to hear of the support that they have received in the hotels.
I have one last comment I want to make with regard to that. What has been very surprising to us in terms of our experience at the Muslim Welfare Centre, especially in terms of our food bank locations in Mississauga and Scarborough, is that we had quite a few families reaching out to us to help Syrians in the hotel who were government- sponsored refugees. This was not something, quite frankly, we had provided for in the budget. For example, the mosque out in the East End, the Taric Islamic Centre, happened to be beside the hotel where there were about 200 Syrian refugees staying. They would come over for prayer, and then conversations would start, and then we would get the phone calls from parents and, you know, individuals in the community saying, "Listen, you know, I was at a facility. I saw the Syrians. They didn't have a coat on them.'' You know, they had this great Canadian response to be able to kind of do as much as we can to help them, but now it has come back to: "Let's just take them to the food bank.'' That is what we are seeing a lot of, and as Rehan mentioned, we have almost 400 families, well over 1,700 family members that are accessing us on a daily basis.
I should point out that this group of refugees, of course, has been given health coverage. They have been given OHIP coverage from day 1, so they are not accessing our free medical clinic. What they are accessing is our referrals to physicians because you know how difficult it is to even — for me to get to my physician, it seems I need to leave several messages, and it takes months for me to get one appointment. That is the other element that local grassroots charities are involved in, providing referrals. The wider network of Lifeline Syria, as an example, is being able to connect them to services.
I just want to encourage the esteemed senators to think about actually coming out and visiting some of the agencies that are dealing with Syrians, to get a bird's eye perspective.
Thank you so kindly.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
We have five minutes. I would like Senator Ataullahjan and Senator Omidvar to get their questions in, keeping in mind the question that Senator Ngo asked about after 12 months. I mean there can't be an arbitrary cut-off; this is it. I marked down a comment that I thought was great from Malaz about "Don't place a cap on Canadian compassion.'' I think that is an underlying statement that we all feel.
So the two questions and then we will have to wrap it up with some quick answers.
Senator Ataullahjan: My question is to you, Alexander. You briefly touched on issues of discrimination. Can you tell me, discrimination in what areas? Is it services, employment, housing?
Mr. Vadala: In terms of a public education campaign, we received funding from the province and the city to work on discrimination, to provide public education in terms of anti-xenophobia, anti-racism in general. This is something that we need to do in terms of sensitizing the public, to tell the public that it is not okay.
We know that Canadians are very compassionate generally, but we also know that there have been instances and incidences in certain cities and in places of attacks against refugees. This could be a very small number of people, but still we need to engage in public education that, you know, it is okay to welcome refugees, that it is in the interest of Canada that we have done this for the last how many years and that we have even received a Nansen Refugee Award. As a people, Canadians received a Nansen award in the 1980s, and these are the things that we need to work on.
Senator Ataullahjan: Are we creating two classes of refugees? We have heard in the testimony that the private ones are doing a lot better than the government-sponsored ones, so if you can just give me a quick answer to that.
Mr. Calla: This is a narrative that has developed over this project that is very disturbing in that there has been this movement by private sponsors to have government-assisted refugees converted to private-sponsored refugees because they are saying the privately sponsored refugees do better, as you noted.
It is a very complicated question in this sense: The research shows that the privately sponsored refugees do better initially, but in the long term, both groups do well. What is not understood is what I was saying earlier with regard to government-assisted refugees, that is, a vulnerable class of refugees, and the study that the federal government sent us on this particular cohort actually showing education levels and a whole bunch of different things contrasting government assisted with privately sponsored refugees. It is very remarkable in this sense: As I was saying earlier, for the government-assisted, one in 10 speaks an official language, whereas for the privately sponsored, it is six in 10 with higher education. With privately sponsored, the family size, 52 per cent are single. With government-assisted, 53 per cent are families of five to eight with greater challenges. So you have these distinctions. Clearly, the privately sponsored, a single person who already speaks English, is going to be able to, you know, find a job and get going a lot more quickly than a government-assisted refugee.
What we are doing with government-assisted and what we are doing with privately sponsored refugees, the value of both of those streams speaks for itself. We don't need to denigrate one or the other, which is what has been happening in the community, unfortunately. I just wanted to put that on the table.
The Chair: Thank you for that.
I will get Senator Omidvar to get your question in, and then Malaz, you can answer as well right after she asks her question.
Mr. Sebai: One small comment, and I know Mario didn't mean anything by this, but I just want to point out that, yes, government-assisted refugees are vulnerable, but I would say that they are more vulnerable. Let us not forget that even privately assisted refugees — and, you know, I have worked with many of them — are under great duress. It is a massive crisis. There is not anybody who is not affected, and as Mario said, let's not pit one against the other. Everyone is equally vulnerable, maybe some more than others.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator, then we will wrap it up.
Senator Omidvar: I love your hockey story in Ottawa, Mr. Chairman, so I am going to riff off a little bit of that.
I too have a family that I am sponsoring with others. They are a family of 12. The best thing we have done for them is negotiate a highly discounted family membership at the local YMCA. The family members are now swimming; they are playing hockey; the girls are in Taekwondo lessons.
My question is to the settlement agency here, COSTI. Is there a way of institutionalizing such a relationship with the YMCA given the fact that the City of Toronto Parks and Recreation programs are taken up before they are even open? There is no capacity for refugees to have access to those same free swimming classes and hockey classes that other residents in the city have.
Mr. Calla: There definitely is a way, and I think we are seeing some groups, some organizations already making it a priority. CultureLink, during the winter months, in fact, was picking up the families at the hotel and giving them a winter experience, for example, taking them down to Harbourfront for a skating day, that sort of thing.
Parks and Rec in Toronto has found it difficult for the reason you describe, but, you know, we are having a conversation with them because they were very responsive in the hotels and set up children's programs and so on. We hope that they can pick up on this because there is no faster way to integrate children than getting them involved in recreational activities with other Canadians. Yes, we are following up with the various institutions that provide those programs.
The Chair: We want to thank you all very much. We have learned a lot this morning and your testimony will add a lot to our report. We will be putting a few things out as we go along. We hope the media pays attention to what you are saying as well, and, of course, we will have a report out this summer on this particular aspect of the human rights of these refugees, our new Canadians.
For our second panel this morning, the witnesses are: from the Arab Community Centre of Toronto, Zena Al Hamdan, Programs Manager; also, as an individual, Dr. Meb Rashid, Medical Director, Crossroads Clinic, Women's College Hospital, and Assistance Professor, University of Toronto; and from the Syrian Canadian Foundation, Bayan Khatib, Board Member and Head of the Social Committee.
Welcome to our committee. Zena, if you are prepared, please proceed.
Zena Al Hamdan, Programs Manager, Arab Community Centre of Toronto: Good morning. Thank you for the invitation.
To give you a little bit of context about the sample of the newcomer Syrian refugee population that we serve, on average, the Arab Community Centre of Toronto serves about 5,000 newcomer clients every year. Traditionally and up until the end of the second quarter of fiscal year 2015-16, newcomer Syrian refugees accounted for 10 per cent of our clients. This percentage has increased exponentially as of September 2015 to reach 49 per cent of our demographics as of April 2016. Forty per cent of these newcomer Syrian refugees are government-assisted refugees; 35 per cent are privately sponsored, and 25 are blended visa office referral. We have also been engaged with over 125 sponsorship groups.
Through our work with the newcomer Syrian refugees, we have identified some of the following challenges, and I am sure the first panel touched on some of them. The first issue is the lower-than-expected literacy rate. Some of the clients we have seen are almost illiterate in their own language. This poses a challenge in two aspects: functioning within a formal classroom setting and also barriers to English language attainment and conceptual context. Larger families, more than four children under the age of 12, the challenge, especially for government-assisted refugees, is with housing. Some of them who are slotted to reside in the GTA ended up in areas like London because it is more affordable. Also, it impacted parents' access to English language classes because of limited access to daycare spots, but this has also highlighted the lack of programming for children under 12. Most funders address the category, 13 and above.
There is a general lack of understanding of roles or responsibilities, especially for privately sponsored. Two factors could be a reason, the dated pre-arrival information and the overwhelming amount of information, a new language and new system. There is also the mental health aspect and pre-migration trauma.
One of the most notable aspects in this Syrian crisis is the overwhelming support from the community at large. It has introduced new, nontraditional partners such as private sponsorship groups, businesses, volunteers on an unprecedented scale. The challenge is managing and integrating those groups that are far removed from the refugee and settlement experience within the traditional setting of settlement service models in a very limited time frame. Another challenge is the contracted information referral model of service doesn't always seem to be the most responsive model considering this demographic.
There are some notable challenges for each of the Syrian refugee categories. The privately sponsored in remote locations such as Grey/Bruce County, where there is, for example, a 45-minute drive to a Service Ontario branch, and there are no accessible English language classes for lower levels of English. For the government-sponsored refugees, although there is a lack in ongoing support, there is the potential for social support networks forming within these refugee groups at the reception homes.
One of the issues that was highlighted earlier is the 90-day lag after being permanently housed is receiving the Child Tax Benefit which is considered within the allowance from the federal government.
There is one notable demographic that is specific to the newcomer Syrian refugees. It is the young parents under 24 years of age with more than one child. This group has a multitude of issues: being youth, being parents, newcomers and, also challenging is their loss of their traditional support network of family, neighbours and friends.
There are a couple of key recommendations. For the privately sponsored refugees, they generally pan out with more, faster, positive settlement immigration outcomes. Private sponsorship groups in remote locations need more attention and support, but also, there needs to be an integration of supporting private sponsorship groups into the contracted contribution agreements of settlement organizations.
There is a need for programming directed at children ages zero and six to 12, and there is also a need for case management model versus information referral model.
The Chair: Thank you very much. After we have had this hearing, would you please give those key recommendations to our clerk?
Ms. Al Hamdan: Absolutely.
The Chair: They are very important for our study.
Dr. Rashid.
Dr. Meb Rashid, Medical Director, Crossroads Clinic, Women's College Hospital and Assistant Professor, DFCM, University of Toronto, as an individual: Thank you. I want to start by thanking you for the opportunity to address this committee.
As a bit of background, I am a family physician who has had the privilege of serving refugee populations for over 15 years. I am the medical director of the Crossroads Clinic at Women's College which is a clinic that serves newly arrived refugees here in Toronto. I have also been involved in academic activities such as developing evidence-based guidelines for the assessment of new immigrants and refugees. I have had the privilege of working with refugee claimants as well as government-assisted refugees, and I have worked extensively also with other group migrations such as the Burmese migration a few years ago.
I want to start by telling you that I have got two overarching beliefs that I think it is important to share with you. The first is corroborated by most of the literature we have out there. Most refugees are healthy, and if we give them the opportunity, most remain in good health. It is for that reason that I believe it is critical that we engage all refugees in primary care early in their migration trajectory to keep them healthy.
The second belief is that maintaining the health of refugees is really within the domain of primary care clinicians, so connecting refugees with primary care doctors and nurse practitioners really allows us the ability to implement preventative interventions, allows us to identify and treat chronic diseases and also allows for the formation of a trusting relationship. It is this relationship that is critical to providing care for this population. Most, for example, will not divulge mental health symptoms until they are certain they are in a trusting and safe environment.
In terms of the Syrian migration, alongside my clinical role, I was involved in creating a network of health care organizations willing to take on the primary needs of this population. We actually began to plan well before the last federal election. It was early in September when we brought together a group of four health care organizations here in Toronto to put time aside for any potential surge of Syrian refugees.
When the election happened and the Liberal government reiterated their commitment to bring in 25,000 people before the end of the year, we realized that four clinics were not going to do it. We put out a call to some of our colleagues, and within weeks we had 31 health care organizations step up and put time aside to serve the Syrian community when it arrived. I think this is typical of what we have seen with this migration, certainly typical of what we have seen in the health care sector. There is no shortage of human resources, both people and organizations, willing to step up and donate their time to ensure that this migration goes well.
What have we seen so far with the arrival of the Syrian community? In many ways, it is exactly what was predicted. There is nothing unique to the Syrian migration. Eritreans, Afghans, Sudanese, many more have unfortunately lived through war or torture or other forms of trauma. Some have been in refugee camps for decades. What makes this migration unique, I think, from a health perspective, is the sheer size, and with that size there is certainly the ability to overwhelm agencies that are involved with their settlement.
In terms of health issues, we are still processing the data, and we are putting it together. We have had informal discussions with a lot of our colleagues here in Toronto and across the country, and we can certainly see some trends.
As expected, we have seen very little in terms of infectious disease. There has been some cutaneous leishmaniasis, but that is certainly not a life-threatening illness. We haven't seen malaria or tuberculosis, HIV, syphilis or even hepatitis B or hepatitis C in large numbers, and these are all conditions that are not uncommon in other refugee populations.
We have seen our fair share of chronic diseases that are familiar to us in the Canadian context, hypertension, diabetes. We have seen a number of developmental issues in children, and we have also seen a fair number of people with war- and torture-related injuries. Unfortunately, these are issues, again, that are not uncommon in refugee populations.
I want to pause to highlight the topic of mental health. First, I want to remind people that even in the most horrific of traumas, the vast majority of people that we see are not mental health casualties. Most are absolutely well. Second — and someone had referred to this previously — there is often a temporal delay in terms of when people decompensate with mental health issues. Immediately after migration there is frequently a period of elation, and it may take months before mental health issues actually declare themselves. We need to be ready for this.
Finally, even for those who are suffering from depression or post-traumatic stress disorder, a critical piece of their treatment involves successful integration. There is a tremendously positive impact on people's mental health when they obtain employment, when they finish their education, when they learn French or English, when they really development a sense of themselves again, and this should not be underestimated in the context of treating people's mental health issues.
At this point, we have seen a number of Syrian refugees with very serious mental health issues. I think Mario spoke to a few of those cases earlier, what they were seeing in the hotels. As with other refugees, I think this is the tip of the iceberg, and we are going to see many more individuals that may struggle with their mental health over the next year or 18 months.
Finally, I want to comment on the response of the health care sector in welcoming the Syrian refugees. I have been doing this work for many years. I have never seen the type of outpouring of support that we have seen with this migration, not even close. In the fall of 2015, a day didn't go by where I wasn't contacted by a physician or a nurse practitioner, often plastic surgeons, pediatric specialists who were willing to volunteer their time to help support this migration. It truly was inspiring, and I can't also speak strongly enough about the dedication and selflessness of so many of our colleagues in the settlement sector and the work they have done to ensure this migration goes well.
Saying that, in the context of health care, much more could have been done, and in my mind the key indicator of success has to be the number of people who were connected to primary care. My instinct is that we have not done a great job of that here in Toronto at least — and it might differ in other places across the country — despite the tremendous outpouring of support from health care workers. Now, why? I feel like we overemphasized acute concerns but didn't couple that with attaching people to primary care.
I also think that, as is often the case, health care is just not prioritized as a settlement issue. If someone isn't complaining of a medical issue, if they are not bleeding or reaching for an organ, we often don't think of getting them connected to health care early in the migration process, and I think that is a mistake. Time lines were very short, and I think, you know, we did a tremendous amount with what was available, but there is also much to learn.
I agree with what Ratna had suggested earlier. I think that the migration of the Syrian refugees is really an unprecedented event, and it certainly is a tribute to the best of what our country can offer. It has been a privilege to have been able to play even a small part in such a historic event.
Thank you again for allowing me to share my comments with the committee.
The Chair: Thank you, Doctor.
Now we have Bayan Khatib.
Bayan Khatib, Board Member and Head of the Social Committee, Syrian Canadian Foundation: Thank you for inviting me here today and for having this panel.
I think it is a great idea that after so much has been done and so many Canadians have come together to help with this crisis we take a moment to step back and think about what have we done and how can we do things better moving forward.
I am from the Syrian Canadian Foundation, and most of us who make up this foundation have been activists and advocates of the Syrian cause for over five years now. We were so happy to hear that Canada was finally going to bring in Syrian refugees, and when that happened we all just showed up at the hotels and started to help. We felt that as Syrian Canadians we had a very important role to play in being a bridge between Syrian culture and Canadian culture and advocating for the Syrians when they didn't know how to express their needs or when they didn't know they have certain rights but also in helping them to integrate into Canadian culture and understanding where they have come to and what it means to be here.
We got together. We formed five different committees. There is the medical committee, which was actually very important. We found that one of the most urgent needs right away was the medical needs. Many of the families came with urgent medical needs, and they didn't know where to go. You know, COSTI was doing a great job, but sometimes it was very hard to keep up with those big numbers, so we felt we had an important role to play there.
After talking to people in the lobby, finding out that certain people needed emergency care right away, we set up this medical committee. We held a workshop to inform people about what are their rights here, how do you get medical care here and things like that, and we brought in a couple of Syrian doctors who were able to speak to them in a way that they understood and things like that.
The other committees were a kids' committee, social committee, housing committee and education and employment committee. We felt those were the most important needs at the beginning.
Again, we felt as Syrian Canadians that we had a big responsibility here, and I think we did a really great job in stepping up, and eventually COSTI actually hired a couple of us, me included — I just finished a three-month contract with them — and the social committee.
I think that this is something to keep in mind, that the government should really think about the important role Syrian Canadians can play and how we can help to bridge the gap here, and like I said, advocate for the needs of the Syrians because we understand in a way, and also helping with the integration bit.
Before I worked with the government-sponsored refugees, I was also part of Lifeline Syria and worked with the privately sponsored refugees as well. I know there are people here from Lifeline Syria. I just wanted to say that people were very excited here. The Syrian Canadian community was very excited when Lifeline Syria was created and the opportunity to bring our relatives and people we cared about from over there to here.
The only thing I want to say about that is there was huge disappointment that took place when the government decided to slow down the processing. It was a huge disappointment that came suddenly.
I am part of more than one sponsoring group, and many of us were ready. We had homes rented. I know several privately sponsored groups that had homes rented and ready, furniture ready, and we were expecting the families to come because that is what was happening. They were coming very quickly, and then all of a sudden all of that stopped, and so many resources went to waste. Rent was paid for nothing; furniture was bought and had to be returned. Canadians were so ready to help, and just slowing that down kind of killed the momentum in a way, and people were angry and upset. I think that was a mistake, and I hope that we can reverse that. It wouldn't be, hopefully, a big thing to do.
The only other thing about the privately and government sponsored families is I think there should be more effort on family reunification. A lot of the families weren't able to bring, say, their elderly parents or brothers or sisters who used to live with them over there but had to be counted as a separate family or just other relatives or fiancés.
The family reunification bit is really what can complete the happiness of the families who have come here. So many of the families are so grateful and so happy to be here. They tell me all the time about how good it feels to feel safe. Like, safety is not something they take for granted. They actually appreciate that on a daily basis, knowing that their families over there are still undergoing all sorts of suffering. As you all know, the bloodshed in Syria continues today, has not slowed down, and there is no hope of it slowing down. I think that family reunification is a very important bit to help the families here complete their happiness, like I said, and have their loved ones here with them. That is a very important thing.
I have been working very closely with the government-sponsored families in the last three months. I noticed a few big issues, one being not enough money in the first few months they were here. Why? Because the Child Tax Benefit doesn't arrive until three months after they arrive here, so they only have that $800 per adult in the first three months, and that barely covers rent.
We as volunteers have had to struggle to pull together money to help people pay rent, and that is not how it should be. This shouldn't be a burden that the volunteers should bear because it is impossible to help everybody. I am not saying the money in general isn't enough, but it is because the Child Tax Benefit does not arrive for the families until post three months their arrival. This is really a huge problem. I know families that have to put all their money toward rent and had absolutely no money left for food. I have connected so many of them to food banks.
The community has been amazing. Several food banks have popped up to help with this that didn't even exist before, but I don't want the families relying on that sort of help. There should be a way for them to at least have their necessities met without having to run to food banks and things like that. That was the biggest issue.
Then another issue was the furniture. I know the government contracted a company to deliver furniture, the basic necessities, and that's really great. However, I call every family after they move out, and an extraordinary amount of them complain about the furniture, and it is not because they are being picky. I have witnessed with my own eyes the situation with the furniture. I have visited some of the families.
The last family I visited, I walked in and her 10-year old daughter was crying. I said, "What happened?'' She said she was sitting on the chair and slipped right through. The seat of the chair actually slides out. It is a wooden frame, and the seat slides out. You can fall right through the chair. Her back was all red and bloody because she scraped against the wood. I had heard this story over and over while calling families on the phone. I witnessed it with my own eyes that day.
The furniture is really not great and especially the dining chairs. I don't know if I am getting into too much detail for you here. The mattresses, some of them are really not great. That is okay for most families, but then we have some really elderly couples. One of them calls me every day, and she is like, "The mattress is killing my back, and I really need a medical mattress,'' things like that. I am trying to connect her to someone in the community to help, but the waiting — I don't know. There is a lot of waiting, and she is in pain every day. She has severe arthritis. She really needs a good mattress.
I think a little bit more thought should have been put into the furniture for families with disabilities. Also those dining chairs are a hazard. So many injuries have happened, and I am not kidding, with those dining chairs.
I had to say that because I talk to these families every day, and this is what they complain about.
I want to briefly mention the family matching program which is something that I am working on in this current contract. It is something that we are trying to do for the government-sponsored refugees. Like witnesses before were saying, the privately sponsored refugees have a stronger support system sometimes. We are trying to connect each government-sponsored family to a Canadian family that can be their friend for two to three months and support them, not financially but socially.
This project has been doing really well, and I think it gives the government-sponsored families extra support. But my contract is over and today is actually my last day. I think that the government should think about putting more resources into things like that and more resources to support the volunteers who are doing really great work but need more resources to continue that work.
Lastly, I just wanted to say that almost all of the newcomers that I have spoken with do have challenges. It is very difficult to adapt, but all of them are deeply grateful. They are so happy to be here and to be safe, and most of all it is the children who are the happiest I find. Once they hit school, they are so happy. The schools here have been great with the kids. The parents too are happy when they see their kids happy and think of the bright futures their kids will now have.
I guess that is the final thought that I wanted to leave with you. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much for your testimony. I really do think it is important to hear those individual stories, I mean from the high chair to the mattress. We heard from the witnesses earlier this morning about the macro picture and the whole issue, but we don't always see the personal, inside story. There are those of us who are sponsoring refugees, and have gone through that.
If it is not acceptable for Canadians, it shouldn't be acceptable for others who are new Canadians. I think it is important to get that information.
We will start questions with our deputy chair, the esteemed Senator Salma Ataullahjan from the Toronto area.
Senator Ataullahjan: I have two questions.
My first question is to Dr. Rashid. You speak about mental health issues and how refugees are not willing to talk about mental health issues. Also, you are saying that we are going to see a surge, and you say we should be prepared for that. Are we prepared for that? Is that a conversation that is taking place with the government with the health care professionals who are helping the refugees?
Dr. Rashid: The easy answer is yes. When I speak about mental health issues, I always preface the conversation by saying that the vast majority of people will be fine despite the immense trauma they have endured. We tend to relate trauma with pathology, and that is not necessarily the case. Why some people can survive horrific exposure to war and torture and be okay and why some can't is something that I think we are struggling to understand.
So, again, from the refugee populations we have seen, including people who lived through Rwanda, Cambodia, Congo and Vietnam, we expect somewhere around 80 to 90 per cent of the people will be fine. For the remaining 10 per cent, it is not that refugees are reluctant to speak about their issues, but about creating that safe environment where people feel comfortable to do so.
That is where I think in terms of health care, having the one-off visit when dealing with the person's chest pain, bleeding or shoulder pain and then moving on really doesn't work well. What we need to do is connect those people to the folks who will be following them continuously. That will allow for that relationship to be cultivated.
Are we ready? We know that mental health resources across the board for refugees, for Canadians probably need to be bolstered, but saying that I am fairly confident that we have got good networks across the country that are quite capable of dealing with refugee populations. Here in Toronto, CAMH, a very large institution that deals with mental health issues, has just opened up a clinic for newly arrived refugees, Syrians as well as others. We have the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture. There is tremendous expertise in this city.
I find the big issue is not what to do once those issues present themselves. I think the big question is: How do we actually get people to connect to primary care? Once in the primary care system — yes, we do struggle at times; there are wait-lists — people actually do fine. It is just getting them connected.
The other thing that I think is really important to put out there — because there is so much interest in the mental health of refugees, and sometimes appropriately so — is that sometimes we over-emphasize it.
However, I can't speak strongly enough to the issue of integration and its impact on mental health. Issues such as housing, getting the right furniture and getting the kids in the YMCA, are as therapeutic as anything we can do in the medical realm in many cases. I have worked with many people who have seen psychiatrists, have had counselling, have had art therapy, and what really helps is getting a job, or being reunited with family, or finding a soccer team to play on when they used to play soccer back home. Those issues really intersect fundamentally with people's mental health. That is something I am always reminded of and I am always reminding my colleagues about and I think it is important to put out there.
Senator Ataullahjan: The other issue that I would like to address relates to a report the CBC put out last week. They quoted a non-profit organization that works with the Arab community. Every week, a Syrian woman comes forward to say that she has been the victim of domestic abuse. Are there any services available to help women refugees who are in violent, abusive relationships? What measures can we put into place to ensure that refugee women know that these services are available?
In working with refugees, have you felt that there is systematic abuse going on in their homes? Are they willing to talk about it? I just want this issue to be discussed because of that report that came out.
Ms. Khatib: I can tell you from my experience that I have come across several cases of that. This move is a stressful time for families, and there are probably also cultural differences. For these cases that are popping up, it is definitely important that these ladies have the support they need, and it is also important that the education bit take place. That is something that we have tried to do but not enough resources were put into place. In one of the workshops that we held, one of the physicians talked to the men. We actually held a session just for men, and they talked to them about abuse that you are not allowed to hit your wife, that you are not allowed to hit your children or this is what can happen.
More sessions are needed. The men need to be educated. The women need to be educated about how to deal with this, their rights, what's okay and what's not okay, the cultural differences. That integration bit is very important.
I am not really sure what steps have been taken with the cases that do pop up. I know that there are people trying to help these families, but for me, I would like to see more focus on the education bit.
Dr. Rashid: Certainly we have seen this in all refugees, all immigrants, all communities. Unfortunately, it is not a phenomenon that is unique to any particular cultural group. I think the best evidence on this issue actually showed that there were lower rates of domestic violence in immigrants, although I think many of us might question the methodological process there. Whether there is more or less, it is hard to know, but certainly it is an issue in all populations.
I think many times, whether it be refugees or people who are Canadian-born, it is a very unsatisfying feeling as a clinician to deal with a woman who is in that situation because often, resources are limited; often, choices are difficult. It is even more complex when people aren't proficient in English or French, when they have just recently arrived in the country, when they have children to take care of.
We are working with a group from Ryerson to develop a website that would provide resources in Arabic for women. We know sexual violence has been an issue for refugees; pre-migration as well, not only intimate partner violence but violence that is sometimes used in the context of war. We know these issues will take a while to come to the surface. Certainly, there is interest, and people are looking at how to communicate that to the community. Work is going into that as we speak.
Ms. Al Hamdan: Dr. Rashid and Bayan have touched on most of the points. I would have to agree about early education. Domestic abuse in the Canadian context is completely different than what is understood overseas, what is domestic abuse. Domestic abuse in overseas or in Arab culture is basically just physical abuse, but it comes in various forms, financial, psychological, emotional, you name it.
Early-on education, and the more education given, not only to the women but also to men is needed. Not only disseminating information but a more interactive methodology is required. Don't expect results after attending one workshop. It is an ongoing process and certainly more support is needed.
I would have to agree that it is not unique to the Syrian population. It is not unique to the refugee population. It is just the influx within three months, and the numbers became statistically significant.
Senator Ataullahjan: We have heard that young men are not being allowed to come in as refugees. Are we placing young women in vulnerable positions, in danger because of marriages of convenience because it is easier for families to immigrate? Has that issue ever come up?
Ms. Khatib: I think that is happening and it has nothing to do with Canadians bringing in refugees. It has been happening already in the refugee populations in Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey. It is actually a horrifying phenomenon, how many of these really, really young girls are being married off for whatever reason — financial, safety, things like that. However, I don't think it has to do with Canada bringing in refugees or who Canada is allowing in.
Senator Ataullahjan: What you are saying, Bayan, is that because of the fact that we are not letting young men come in, they are not necessarily getting married in a rush to qualify as families to come in. What you are talking about is what we have heard, that people in refugee camps are marrying off young girls as old as 13 or 14 to older men because parents don't want the responsibilities of young women. We have heard of cases of sexual abuse. Is that what you are addressing?
Ms. Khatib: I wouldn't say they don't want the responsibility. I say they have no way of supporting their children. The situation is so desperate that they have no option, no way of supporting their children and they come to that point. I don't think that that is happening with refugees coming here.
Senator Ataullahjan: Thank you.
The Chair: Just to follow up, there is an article that you were quoted in, Zena, that mentioned Zahra Dhanani, a lawyer and activist, dealing with the issue of women's rights in this country and the alleged abuse by husbands in some families that happens once they get here because of the idea of being dependent on the men in their lives for so long. The article said that they don't know the legal realities, adding "Many are also unaware of social supports available.'' She said that it is impossible to even contemplate living in a random country and listed the many risks Syrian women face from partners who threaten deportation if they divorce. It is difficult for them as they are almost in a Catch-22 place.
As a society, what more can we do as politicians and citizens to make sure that their human rights are respected in our country, that they are truly a partner within their family?
Ms. Al Hamdan: I think that report is from last week.
One of the key issues I spoke about was the early-on education bit and that it be articulated over and over again that just because you came in as a family unit does not mean that breaking that family unit will have an impact on your status within the country. That is not only an issue for refugee women. It is an issue of violence against women, immigrant and refugee women, especially with the recent changes with spousal sponsorship.
The issue is articulating the fact that your status within the country is not dependent on staying within the family unit although you came in as a family unit. That's one. The other thing is what are your rights and responsibilities? You are no longer in survival mode where you are in the second country, for example, being in Jordan, and dependent on the husband for protection, for income, for every other purpose. Any disturbance in that family unit will result in, potentially, danger of deportation for her, for her children and for her spouse.
So, once arriving in Canada, articulating the sense that you are secure, you are safe, you have rights, and there is always family mediation. There is always counselling. There are always support groups. Things have to be looked at in the context of not only domestic violence but also from the context of the trauma of migration itself and settlement itself and how much stress and pressure that puts on the family unit.
Dr. Rashid: As a health care worker, one of the issues for us is that when women are in a scenario where they can disclose violence, there are mechanisms that can come into play. There is an educational opportunity there, but on that same point it is also important to have people who are conduits of that information, people who are going to connect women with some of the norms and rights of the health care system. You know, my colleagues on both sides probably find this to be a significant part of their work.
What I worry about most are those people who just don't have access to doctors or community workers, people who are isolated. Getting to those people, I think, becomes a real challenge. Once they are in contact with the system, there is the opportunity to provide that information. Again, it applies in the health care context. If you connect people to the health care community, it also is an opportunity for us to speak to people about their rights.
We have had a number of people, some Syrian, in the last little while who brought up the issue of intimate partner violence, and we can speak about safety plans. We can speak about shelters. We can speak about accessing friends that they can go to if there is an emergency. We can talk to them about what 911. Again, I worry more about the people who are not in our office. Connecting people to the system should be a key part of what we are trying to do.
Ms. Khatib: I guess I don't have much to add to that but Canada is a country with so many resources and a lot of support for women, for people who have been abused, for many things. The key component is to provide outreach to the newcomers, educate them and connect them to the resources.
This is being done, but it needs to be done even more so and faster. I worry a lot about families that might fall through the cracks, that we didn't reach because they were quiet or they didn't ask for help. Part of my previous work was to try to make sure that we connected with every family and that we connected each family to a friend who could be their support for this first while. I think it is just a matter of connecting them to the resources.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Omidvar.
Senator Omidvar: I am also going to stay with women's rights since women's rights are human rights and this is the Human Rights Committee, but I want to move away from issues of domestic violence.
Women in Canada have all the freedoms that men have, financial freedom, freedom of association, freedom of movement, et cetera. At what point in the settlement counselling or orientation process are women advised of all their rights? I wonder about even things like money. I know that, whether privately sponsored refugees or government- assisted refugees, the women too have a bank account, and they have access to more money. However, I have seen them hand over their cards to the men, and when I say to them "You have to learn how to use the PIN'' — "No, no, no. I don't deal with the money.''
These are complex cultural issues, and you can't sort of simply impose another set of cultural values on another just like that. It has to come from the community. It has to come from inside the community, but there has to be a systematic approach, and I wonder what you are doing about it and what we can do about it?
Ms. Khatib: Very little has been done so far because we have been dealing so much with urgent matters — it feels to me, anyway — like medical issues, housing and things like that, but I think it is time now to start to focus more on these things. We need more of these workshops happening and educational events and integration work.
I do believe, like I said earlier, that the Syrian Canadian community has an important responsibility and role to play here, and we hope that we will be able to do more in this area with the support of the rest of the community and the government. There is a lot that needs to happen there.
Your initial question was what has happened so far, not very much but simply because we are dealing with the urgent issues or seemingly more urgent issues, but a lot needs to happen in that area.
Senator Omidvar: Again on that note of helping Syrian women understand their rights and their responsibilities, I am concerned about the interaction with the school system which is still negotiated between the school and the head of the household, a man. I wonder if you have comments about that.
Ms. Al Hamdan: There is a strict settlement intake and assessment model where you have to go through certain rights and responsibilities and other issues with every single newcomer that you come across, whether an individual or a family unit.
There are things that need to be addressed. For example, after you have addressed the housing, the documentation, the kids are in school, and you have connected them to a family physician — there are issues about, like you said, banking and finance, how do you handle that; articulating the fact that although within a family unit, you are still an individual and you are held accountable as an individual, not just as a family unit.
This is the approach that we go with, the context of being in a settlement organization where all service providers speak Arabic, reflective of all Arab countries and understand the nuances. We are more, I would say, able to address these issues in a culturally sensitive manner.
We address things like speaking to a family unit that has come from Damascus with a university degree, and are prominent physicians or lawyers or whatever. It is a different conversation than when you are speaking to somebody who is coming from a rural area. We understand these nuances, but at the same time, we try to get the same message across to the families, what pertains to their rights and responsibilities.
If you have a family with teenage children, the conversation also becomes: How do you preserve your identity but still do not isolate your children? How do you interact with school systems? It is the two-parent approach, that you are still going to be held responsible as a mother even though, in your context, the father is the head of the household. You are still an equal partner in this process. All this is not one appointment, one checklist. It is an ongoing process.
Certainly, a lot of work has been done when it comes to connecting with the broader community. It could be like the model that is happening now in the hotels of connecting within three months with an established Canadian family. There are also those of us who are familiar with the experience of the Boat People, with Culture Link, where the host program has been established. This is a very important program. It is not federally funded anymore, but the methodology and the process of that program has been implemented through integrating volunteers within the process because it is a provision of service, and it pans out for much better, positive outcomes and settlement.
The Chair: We have been talking so much about ensuring people show up for workshops and language training. How do we help ourselves if you have an idea? I will give you an example: In Ottawa where everybody gathered at the airport, children, Canadian flags, the usual scene, and we are all talking and just excited and singing "O Canada,'' and the family comes down and says "Hello. Hi. How are you? Nice to be here.''
So, you have a mother and two children, a young 21 or 22, speak English, from Damascus, well-educated, the rest of it, and everybody is — "Oh, my goodness. Now what do we do?'' We have this, we have that, we have everything, and then a moment later another family comes down — you don't know when you are sponsoring a family who is coming, and you don't care. You know they are human beings; you welcome them.
Then the next family comes, a family of seven, from rural Syria, limited education. Then you are in a situation of where as a group you have to work harder and together to stay with this family whereas the other family is quite self- reliant. Are there some lessons for us as Canadians to adapt to the different realities for each and every one? As we all know, it takes compassion, and it takes a lot of patience.
Ms. Al Hamdan: This certainly has been the experience of a lot of sponsorship groups we have been dealing with. The key element that we advise is that they connect to your nearest settlement organization. Settlement organizations are your partner in the sponsorship process. It is not only to connect you to resources and services available; it is also to provide you support and cultural context of who you are dealing with and what are the best approaches.
A lot of sponsorship groups come to us or to an Arabic-speaking settlement counsellor and ask questions that you will not find in a manual: Do I shake hands? Do I not shake hands? Do I show up? How much support am I to provide? Am I empowering? Am I enabling? All these questions.
The key recommendation is that sponsorship groups need to be addressed as a partner in the settlement funding. They have to be part of the targets that are contracted for settlement organizations and frontline service delivery because working with settlement counsellors or working with people on the ground will greatly increase the ease of interaction between sponsorship groups and the family sponsored.
The Chair: Senator Hubley?
Senator Hubley: Thank you very much.
On the same theme, you mentioned your family matching program. I come from a small community, Prince Edward Island, and we share that same enthusiasm and the joy of having people come in and that sense of hospitality and who we are.
I had heard a situation described as "hitting the glass wall.'' That was the situation where we as Canadians have had this great outpouring of welcoming, but at some point in time it is not just being friendly but making a friend. At that point, it may be a difficult position for both of us. I wondered if that is something that you have experienced? It may be early yet.
The second thing that I would like to ask: There is a natural tendency for human beings to gather with similar interests, so I would suggest the Syrian community here in Toronto would be very interested and supportive of the immigrants who are coming in, and I think that would go both ways, where arts and culture are concerned. Arts doesn't seem to be in the mix right now, but it will come because they have all grown up with certain foods and certain traditions, and some of those they have to keep. I think Canada is a wonderful place to do that. I am just wondering how that sort of situation fits in the mix right now.
First of all, is there more that Canadians have to be prepared to do and is that glass wall perhaps an illusion?
Ms. Khatib: Can I ask you to clarify what you meant by the difficult situation of "not just being friendly but making a friend?'' You said that leads to a difficult situation.
Senator Hubley: I think, with regard to this general outpouring that we have, how far will that take us as far as helping Syrians resettle? We are welcoming. We want to help. We are taking them into our communities, but there is life beyond that too. In other words, in five years' time, what will we be looking at in the Syrian community within our communities? Will they have been integrated, or will it be a great rush of support and then perhaps not so much afterwards? They would be coming back to your agencies as clients, maybe for years if they are running into difficulty, and I am wondering if we are in fact prepared for that?
Ms. Khatib: That is a tough question.
Senator Hubley: Well, you can just think about it then.
Ms. Khatib: We have been focused on very short-term issues and haven't even had a moment to think about long- term issues, but that is something to consider. There has been such a wide range of families who have come. Some of them will probably fit in within a few months or one year and some who are going to need five years of settlement because they may be completely illiterate and know nothing — never left their hometown until this war happened and things like that.
I think we do need to be in it for the long haul for many of the families. Yes, we have seen an outpouring and then people get tired and volunteers just disappear and things like that. That certainly has happened, but not everybody. Many people have stuck with us for a long time. I think that is probably the case for any cause, but you are right to point to that. We need to have a little bit of longer-term thinking.
I think employment is something that we have to think about longer-term. A lot of Syrians that I meet strongly desire to work in their fields. Some of them are nurses or teachers or whatever. In Canada it is really sad that you come here and none of your education means anything. None of your experience means anything. There needs to be faster accreditation programs or something that, you know, you can't start from zero. That is a huge problem in Canada that not just these newcomers are facing but my parents as immigrants faced. My mom was a doctor, and my dad was an engineer, and their degrees meant nothing. They started from zero, so if we want to help them in the long term, that is something to consider.
Senator Hubley: Are the jobs that the immigrants are able to get in the field that they have been trained in generally, or is it as you said, there is no accreditation for them? What kind of jobs are they accessing?
Ms. Al Hamdan: In the last six months we have seen, like Bayan said, a range of refugees, of refugee newcomers. Their experience has not been much different than that of most newcomers where their credentials are not recognized, their experience is not recognized, especially certain professions where the accreditation body or the regulatory body is very strict in their process. The chances of these newcomer refugees participating within their own field is getting slimmer and slimmer.
I will give you an example. The World Education Services, WES, requires that your university complete a certain form attesting to your education. Think about that in a city, for example, where I went to school, Aleppo. The roads are inaccessible. There is nobody there. There is no chance for you to go and get somebody, a relative or whatever, to contact the university — if there are people at the university.
That is something to take into consideration not only for Syrian refugees but for other waves of newcomers and refugees, people who have fled situations where it is virtually impossible for them to work. Then you come here, and you think you have reached safety, and you realize that unless your university or your place of education attests to that you can't work. I understand where the regulatory bodies are coming from, but at the same time, that pushes out very highly qualified people who are human capital to the Canadian economy into jobs that are just a waste. No job is demeaning; there is no such thing, but at the same time, this is wasted talent, so things like that.
There are a lot of good initiatives within the community. There are a lot of programs to integrate, but chances of highly qualified people getting back into their professions are really slim.
There is one other thing: A lot of the Syrian newcomers that we are seeing are tradespeople. The trades in Canada are a booming sector, but the reality of the matter is you are required to speak a high level of English to be in trades in Canada. In the Middle East in general, people in trades do not speak a second language, so that is another burden. All these aspects need to be taken into consideration.
Senator Hubley: Thank you very much.
The Chair: I would like to broach the mental health issue again and post-traumatic stress, where the interventions can take place and with whom inside these resettlement programs, how that works. I will give you two examples: In Ottawa a little boy received every imaginable toy upon his arrival, and a week later nobody could find the toys. Finally, after a lot of urging, he took somebody to his bedroom, and the toys weren't there either. He was very nervous about everything. Finally, he reached underneath the bed, and there were all the toys lined up. Why were the toys there? Because he didn't want the soldiers or somebody else to come and take them and steal them. He was very nervous about it. Can you imagine? Now he lives here. So it is his mental health or post-traumatic stress.
Also, a mother went to the school to pick up her child after school, but one of the persons responsible in the sponsorship program had taken the child — the mother had forgotten — to the dentist, a lot of dental work and things, but she had forgotten. Total panic. What was she thinking? He was kidnapped; he was taken away. They have only been here two or three months.
Where does intervention come into play with these things? How does that work because I think that is a big issue, as much as anything medical. A child in a schoolyard environment throws out his anger at others because he is trying to learn how to speak English, and he is hurting inside, and he has all of these things. Where does the intervention take place, and who does it? You don't want to have that linger.
Dr. Rashid: Get them connected to primary care, and I keep saying that because I think that is a really good example. We see behaviours out there that can be very concerning, and sometimes they are a symptom of profound trauma, and sometimes they are not. There are ways to tease that out.
For a lot of people, time will heal a lot. That child a year from now might be absolutely fine, well-adjusted, or might not be. If we can get them connected if there is a need for more sophisticated interventions, whether it is counselling — sometimes it is medications — that is really the responsibility of primary caregivers, to tease that out.
I have had requests from people in the community to speak to private sponsors about mental health symptomology, and what I tell people is: It is really important that you are conscious of potential issues, but get them connected to primary care because that is really the place where people need to sift through that and determine what is important and what is not, where is it important to bring in expertise from outside, where can it be handled with a bit of time and support.
Ms. Al Hamdan: When it comes to children in school specifically, if the family has not been connected to settlement organizations through the sponsorship group, there are also settlement workers within schools, so there is a system in place. Sometimes newcomers fall through the cracks due to the sheer numbers, but there are steps. For example, connecting with the ESL teacher because children until third grade are within the system, but after that they are in special ESL classes.
This connection through the ESL to the social worker, to the settlement organization or the primary health care provider need to be fostered. Like Dr. Rashid said, not everybody will exhibit the same reactions to trauma, and one incident is not going to have a lifetime impact. It is the connection, ensuring that there is a support network, whether it be through settlement, health care providers, and health care providers have been great in doing that. Public health nurses have also been very useful in terms of mental health as well.
Dr. Rashid: I can share one story with you. It wasn't a Syrian refugee, but I am certain that we will see this again. This is a gentleman that I saw a few years back, and I must have seen him a dozen times in his first year in Canada. He had six children. I knew this family very well, but it took about 18 months for him to tell me that he was waking up every two hours, screaming with nightmares, and had been doing so for 20 years.
It is not that we didn't ask, but again, I think it took him that long to feel safe. I think it took him that long to make sure that the kids were in school and that, you know, he had got through some of the other priority issues that he had to deal with on arrival.
It took about two-and-a-half years for his wife to then tell us that, you know, he was treating her terribly, again going back for 20 years. She called us one day from the Bloor viaduct because she felt like she wanted to jump, but she called, and I think she called because there was a relationship.
Again, it wasn't because we didn't ask her when she arrived and we didn't ask in those first three or six months, but it is because that relationship was critical to them feeling safe and knowing that there was someone they could call when things got bad.
As to the child hiding his toys, it is wonderful that you were able to pick that up, but how many children are hiding their toys that we are not picking up on, and how many of those kids will, six months from now, have more significant issues? The teachers will say they are not listening in class. Someone will call them ADD, you know, whatever it is. If there is a safe place with a familiar face that they can go to, it is much easier. The relationship is entrenched and there is no running around when we find out that someone is not doing well. Again, another plug, I am afraid.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator Ngo: The government says that they have reached the number of 25,000. We know that the 25,000 Syrians who came here to Canada have so many problems. With housing, we heard that they move from hotel to hotel and so on.
Recently, the government announced that they are going to accept another 10,000 or 15,000. Based on your experience, what changes would you recommend for the resettlement of the next 10,000 or 15,000 so that we don't face the problems we are facing already?
Ms. Khatib: We have already had the opportunity to set up a lot of systems in place. It was a struggle a few months back in December when it kind of happened suddenly, but now we are much more prepared, and I think it won't be as difficult this time around.
A lot of people have already come together and formed groups. COSTI has learned a lot. The Syrian community has learned a lot. All the groups helping have put in systems and organization, so I think it is going to be much better this time around.
I think that Canada can handle many more Syrian newcomers. I think the crisis in Syria is continuing and that the humanitarian crisis is getting worse. The best thing we can do is bring in more Syrian refugees, and particularly, help reunite some of the families.
Senator Ngo: So you recommend no changes?
Ms. Khatib: For me one of the biggest things, talking about details, is to try to give the families the Child Tax Benefit earlier, not three months later. That is just too long to wait. That is a big thing. Like I said earlier, the furniture needs to improve so that they can be provided with safe furniture. Keep supporting the community work that is happening. The family matching program is really great. There are so many great programs, so many great things happening in the community. If the government continues to support that work, I think we will be okay.
Senator Ngo: Do you have any comments?
Dr. Rashid: Yes, I would say bring them in, bring them on. We are ready. I think the issue in health care wasn't necessarily that the resources weren't there. I found we were maybe a week to 10 days behind where we should have been, and that created problems that cascaded down the line. If we had had that extra week to extra 10 days, things would have been ready, and instead I think often a lot of energy was spent sort of bailing water from the ship instead of being able to plan programs that are in place.
In a city like Toronto, we take in anywhere from 80,000 to 120,000 new immigrants each year. I mean, we took 4,500 Syrian refugees in two months. We are talking about maybe the same number over the course of the year. This is not going to break us. The numbers are not overwhelming by any means.
You asked how we could do it better, in some ways in healthcare we let the health care system work, and I think the players were all there. I think coordinating it became a bit of a challenge when we weren't getting the messaging as fast as we needed it. That would certainly help moving forward.
I have always felt that, you know, in terms of the health care system, we have the capacity to deal with many more refugees than we deal with, and I don't think with the arrival of the Syrians the issue was about human resources. I think the human resources were in place; they were waiting. People were itching to contribute. It was just coordinating to get those people into care.
Senator Ngo: Do you have anything?
Ms. Al Hamdan: I would just like to add to what Dr. Rashid and Bayan said. The structure is already there, and we have learned lessons. Within three months, we were able to absorb 25,000. I think the lesson, moving forward, is simple things that make the big difference. There are connections between support networks, for example, between the settlement, between the health care. Also, there are key elements, things like a boost for and building on the public interest in refugee sponsorship, fostering these initiatives. There is also enhancing support in smaller communities. Everybody knows that most of the newcomers came to Toronto, but there are other locations within Canada that need more support to be successful host communities.
Our own recommendation is that the structure is there, the momentum is there, and the generosity of the public is there. The whole notion is there. The system has been revived, but it needs a little bit more enhancement and support. We will certainly be able to absorb more refugees, and the Syrian refugee crisis has taught us that we can respond to world refugee crises. It is just wave after wave, and we will be able to absorb it as Canadians.
Senator Ngo: The committee raised this issue with the minister when we were with him last week regarding the private sponsorship. They are waiting, and they are frustrated because they didn't receive any refugees, and they say they are working on it.
I have another question for you, Ms. Khatib. You mentioned that you organized a workshop on the different cultures between Canada and the refugees. You said you had a workshop for the men and women. Did you receive any negative reaction from the men because of the differences, or did they accept it, say, "Look, you are now in Canada. This is the Canada culture, Canada tradition. This is what you have to accept.'' Did you receive any negative reaction from them?
Ms. Khatib: No, the reaction was good. I didn't notice any negative reaction. I think that they understand that they are coming to a different environment and different culture. I think that they know that they have to integrate.
We had two separate workshops, one for the ladies and one for the men. We wanted them to be able to speak freely, and we didn't want to talk about certain things. I wasn't in full attendance of the men's one because I wanted them to be comfortable. I think the ones that knew that they needed to change kind of were just quiet and, like, looked at the ground kind of thing. They know that they need to do that, and I think it is just a matter of continuing to work with these families. They know that this needs to happen. Over there you can get away with things; here, you can't.
We were talking about how much has happened. I think some good things have happened because at least two or three women that I know have stood up for their rights. They demanded an end to being in an abusive relationship. They are on their own. They know that they can make it on their own here. They feel empowered. We do need to do more of that work, but some of it has happened, and it has been really good.
Senator Ngo: Thank you.
The Chair: We just have a few more minutes, and this has been very compelling testimony, particularly dealing with the rights of women.
Before you were here, COSTI was here. The gentleman spoke about housing, and one of the things that caught me in his statement was "We urge the Canadian government to develop a national housing strategy that can begin to address the unavailability of affordable housing in major centres such as here in Toronto because it is taking more than 50 per cent of their income.'' It is supposed to be about 30.
Do you have any ideas on how that can work? I know there is a program in Montreal through ROMEL, and they are involved in creating social housing units and day cares. Do you have any points of view on this and how it could work without having housing in ghettos and different areas, the attitude that "You should live here, and we should live there'' as opposed to all of us living together in some environment?
Ms. Al Hamdan: I don't think I speak on a national level, but the reality of the matter is housing in urban areas such as Toronto is really expensive. It is not just for refugees or low income families but for everybody. It is the whole approach, and we need to look at it from a perspective of do we have enough stock? Is the stock enough? I don't think the stock is enough for the number of people that are coming to the GTA.
I understand that there are some initiatives out West to build more to absorb the newcomers. As far as Toronto goes, we on our level are just dealing with the immediate needs, not on a strategy level.
Ms. Khatib: Maybe one part of the solution could be to encourage the newcomers to not just stay in Toronto but to go to surrounding areas as well and provide support for them in those areas so that they can live there comfortably.
The Chair: Just before we close, we would like specific recommendations from the three of you, what you would like to recommend to the present federal government. That is what we do as a Senate. That is what this committee does. Sometimes governments listen, sometimes they don't, but we are pretty progressive in our ideas, and we push for ideas that come from you. Would you have a recommendation that you would like to leave with us that you feel would be extremely important?
I know, Zena, that you had something at the very beginning that may, for the record, deserve repeating.
Ms. Al Hamdan: There are three key recommendations: Fostering more support to private sponsorship groups, especially in remote locations, non-urban locations where there is a lack of settlement support and also integrating, serving and supporting sponsorship groups within the contracted contribution agreements for settlement organizations. That is one recommendation.
The other one is there is a severe lack of programming directed at children ages six to 12, and that is a demographic where the earlier the intervention the better the outcomes. Also, in the very model of settlement service the information and referral sometimes is lacking. A case management model of service, especially for the highly vulnerable and people with mobility issues wanting to access services, a mobile case management model is most recommended.
Dr. Rashid: For me, the challenge has always been having health included as a settlement piece. I think we are all very good at referring people on to health care when there is a medical complaint, but our argument has always been that even when refugees are healthy, they should be connected to primary medical care within a few weeks.
I don't know if a system like that needs to be mandated by government. I know some provinces certainly took a much more directed approach, for example, in Quebec. Putting that on the agenda and putting that as a suggestion I think would be very helpful.
Ms. Khatib: In terms of the privately sponsored refugees, faster processing, at least of the applications that have already been put in. We already know how frustrated sponsor groups are in waiting. Family reunification is a very important issue.
In terms of the government-sponsored refugees, subsidized housing — because it is not very affordable for them — and also recognizing that for the first three months, it is impossible to get by without the Child Tax Benefit. It is very poorly thought out in that area. So many families I know have no money for food, so it is really a crisis. The Child Tax Benefit needs to be paid out at the beginning, from the start.
Lastly, as I already mentioned, utilizing the help of the Syrian Canadian community. We feel that we are an important bridge in all of this wonderful work that is happening, and that's it.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much. It is very compelling testimony and very important for us. I want to thank you for being here.
We are going to take a 15-minute break. We have just one more panel to hear this afternoon. That meeting will be in camera with families who have chosen to speak to us.
(The committee adjourned.)