THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL FINANCE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Tuesday, June 21, 2022
The Standing Senate Committee on National Finance met by videoconference this day at 9:31 a.m. [ET] to examine the subject matter of Bill C-19, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 7, 2022 and other measures.
Senator Percy Mockler (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: Honourable senators, in the event of technical difficulties, including interpretation, please report it to the chair or the clerk and we will work to resolve the issue. If you encounter other technical difficulties, please contact the ISD Service Desk by calling the technical support number provided to you.
[English]
Honourable senators, the use of online platforms does not guarantee speech privacy or that eavesdropping won’t be conducted. As such, while conducting committee meetings, all participants should be aware of such limitations and restrict the possible disclosure of sensitive, private and privileged Senate information.
[Translation]
Honourable senators, those participating in the meeting should do so in a private place and be aware of their surroundings.
[English]
I wish to welcome all the senators as well as viewers across the country watching us on sencanada.ca.
[Translation]
My name is Percy Mockler, senator from New Brunswick and Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance. I would now like to introduce the members of the National Finance Committee who are participating in the meeting: Senator Boehm, Senator Dagenais, Senator Duncan, Senator Forest, Senator Moncion, the sponsor of Bill C-19, Senator Gerba, Senator Gignac, Senator Loffreda, Senator Marshall and Senator Pate.
[English]
I have been made aware that the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Gold, is present with us, and I want to welcome the leader to our Finance Committee.
Honourable senators, we will now begin with the official portion of our meeting.
Is it agreed that the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-19, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 7, 2022 and other measures? Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Agreed. Thank you.
Shall the title stand postponed, honourable senators — to be postponed to the end of the meeting? Yes? Thank you, honourable senators.
[Translation]
Agreed.
Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, stand postponed?
Agreed.
[English]
Honourable senators, I want to share with you and the viewers that this is a large bill with nearly 450 pages. With the limited time we have to complete this clause-by-clause study today, I ask you, honourable senators, is it agreed, with leave, that the clauses be grouped according to the five parts of the bill as described in the table of provisions of Bill C-19?
Senator Marshall: No.
Mr. Chair, when we get to Part 5, there are certain divisions of Part 5 that I do not support. Therefore, I don’t agree with just taking all the divisions of Part 5 and voting on them as a group. There are a number of them that I don’t support, and I would like the opportunity to indicate which ones they are.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Senator Marshall, and yes, you will have that opportunity. We will do Part 5 as per your comments on the sections in question.
Therefore, honourable senators, it has been accepted that we will look at Bill C-19 as per the parts.
I will consider Part 1 immediately, and the title is “Amendments to the Income Tax Act and Other Legislation,” which represents clauses 2 to 51, page 1 to page 56. Honourable senators, shall Part 1, entitled “Amendments to the Income Tax Act and Other Legislation,” which contains clauses 2 to 51, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chair: We shall now move on to Part 2, Amendments to the Excise Tax Act (GST/HST Measures), clauses 52 and 53, on pages 56 to 58.
Shall Part 2, entitled “Amendments to the Excise Tax Act (GST/HST Measures),” which contains clauses 52 to 53 carry?
Carried.
[English]
Senator Marshall: On division.
The Chair: On division. Thank you.
Honourable senators, we will move to Part 3, entitled “Amendments to the Excise Act, 2001, the Excise Act and Other Related Texts,” clauses 54 to 134, page 58 to page 107.
Shall Part 3, entitled “ Amendments to the Excise Act 2001, Excise Act and other related texts,” which contains clauses 54 to 134, carry?
Carried. Now honourable senators, we will consider Part 4, entitled “Select Luxury Items Tax Act,” clauses 135 to 173, on pages 106 to 281.
Shall part 4, entitled “Select Luxury Items Tax Act,” clauses 135 to 173, carry?
Senator Marshall: No.
Senator Dagenais: On division.
The Chair: One no, and one on division. Did I hear that right?
Senator Marshall: I said “no,” and Senator Dagenais said “on division.”
The Chair: We will recognize it is on division, and there is one senator that said “no.”
Senator Marshall: That’s correct, I said no.
The Chair: Thank you, honourable senator.
Senator Marshall: I don’t support that section.
The Chair: Part 4 has been carried on division, with one “no.”
Now we will move to Part 5, which is “Various Measures,” clauses from 174 to 451, pages 282 to 409. Senator Marshall identified at the beginning of the meeting that she had comments on Part 5.
Senator Marshall: Yes, thank you very much. I don’t support Division 7, the amendments to the Borrowing Authority Act and the Financial Administration Act. I don’t support the ban on foreign investment in Canadian housing, along with Divisions 15 and 16, the Competition Act and the Copyright Act. We studied those in the Banking Committee, and I don’t support those.
The Chair: Therefore, Senator Marshall, it would be Division 7 of Part 5 that you don’t support, and housing, Divisions 15 and 16.
Senator Marshall: And Division 12.
The Chair: And Division 12, okay.
As procedure, I ask if we have consensus in the majority to carry Division 5 with a note that Senator Marshall did not support Divisions 7, 15, 16, and 12.
Senator Marshall: Yes, that’s correct.
The Chair: Senator Duncan, do you have some comments?
Senator Duncan: Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity. I wanted to flag that in the reports received from other committees that studied various parts of Part 5, they have used very strong language in their review of the report. For example, the Standing Committee on Social Affairs has suggested ESDC conduct a review of temporary measures, and the Foreign Affairs Committee has no objections in their report. But in the Banking Committee, as has been noted by Senator Marshall, there was a comment that said “continues to be concerned” and “not sufficient time for the committee to properly study.” And National Security and Defence had strong reservations.
I’m just flagging this for my colleagues on the National Finance Committee that the other committee reports I have studied have used some very clear strong language with respect to Part 5 and have expressed reservations. I just wanted to note that for the record.
The Chair: Senator Duncan, you’re absolutely right, there is some language in other pre-studies made by other committees. It is completely normal that they can use such language. This is why, in tabling our report on Bill C-19, the government will need to be mindful of the observations that have been made by those committees. Just like we — after adopting our report this morning — will append the four observations that we discussed, and that we took under advisement and approved, which will be appended to the report when we table it in the Senate today. For clarity, is that okay with you?
Senator Duncan: Yes, certainly. I appreciate the opportunity, I just wanted to acknowledge the strong language that was used in their recommendations in our discussions as well. Thank you.
The Chair: We will also bring to the attention of the government when we table it that other committees made observations. It’s the prerogative of the government to make those decisions, if they want to respond to it and how they will respond to it.
[Translation]
Senator Forest: I think it is very relevant to include that in our observations. I imagine they will also include it in their report, which would strengthen the observation made by each of these committees. So it is very relevant to include it in our report.
[English]
The Chair: Senators, are there any other comments on Part 5? If not, is Part 5 carried, keeping in mind the comments of Senator Marshall on Divisions 7, 15, 16 and 12.
Again, does Part 5 carry with the comments made by both Senator Marshall and Senator Duncan?
Senator Marshall: On division.
The Chair: On division. Also, for clarity, those comments put forward by Senator Forest. Thank you, honourable senators.
We will now move to the schedules of Bill C-19. Schedule 1 is on pages 410 to 411. Shall Schedule 1 carry, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chair: Schedule 2 is on pages 412 to 416. Shall Schedule 2 to Bill C-19 carry, honourable senators?
Senator Forest: Carried.
[English]
The Chair: Shall Schedule 3 carry, pages 417 and 418, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Carried.
The Chair: Thank you, honourable senators.
As we proceed, I will be asking the following questions, honourable senators. Shall clause 1, which contains the short title, carry?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
[Translation]
The Chair: Shall the title carry, honourable senators?
Senator Forest: Carried.
The Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Honourable senators, shall the bill carry, in consideration of it being on division? Shall the bill carry, honourable senators?
Senator Marshall: On division.
The Chair: On division, thank you.
Honourable senators, as discussed last week, the committee will append the observations to the report that were adopted at our last meeting.
Is it agreed that the observations be appended to the report that will be tabled in the Senate? Is that agreed, honourable senators?
Hon. Senators: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you. Honourable senators, is it agreed that I report this bill with observations to the Senate?
[Translation]
Senator Forest: Okay.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, before I adjourn the meeting, I want to thank each one of you for your hard work and dedication to the committee and ask you if you have any additional comments. The report will be tabled this afternoon. Therefore, are there any comments from the senators present?
[Translation]
Do the senators participating have any comments on the report or the procedure?
Senator Gold: Mr. Chair, on behalf of all committee members, even though I was not present at all the meetings, I salute you for your superb work as chair. Very much appreciated.
The Chair: Thank you, Senator Gold.
On that note, I declare the meeting adjourned. Thank you to our clerk and her team. Thank you very much for your dedication, Mireille. Until we meet again.
Senator Forest: Kudos to the entire team!
(The committee adjourned.)