Proceedings of the Committee on
Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament
Issue 18 - Minutes of Proceedings
OTTAWA, Tuesday, September 16, 2003
(44)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met in camera at 9:35 a.m. this day, in room 356-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Cook, Fraser, Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Robertson, Smith, P.C. and Stratton (9).
In attendance: Charles Robert, Principal Clerk of Procedure; Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel; from the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament, Jamie Robertson and Margaret Young.
Pursuant to rule 86(1)(f), the committee proceeded to the consideration of aspects related to Parliamentary Privilege
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(e), the committee proceeded in camera for consideration of a draft agenda.
It was agreed that staff remain.
The Honourable Senator Joyal made a brief statement to the committee.
The Honourable Senator Milne made a brief statement to the committee.
After debate, it was agreed to hear from Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, at its next meeting.
At 11:11 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Wednesday, September 17, 2003
(45)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met at 12:17 p.m. this day, in room 160-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Cordy, Di Nino, Fraser, Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Lynch-Staunton, Milne, Murray, P.C., Robichaud, P.C., Robertson, Smith, P.C. and Stratton (13).
Other senators present: The Honourable Senators Corbin, Gauthier and Kinsella (3).
In attendance: Charles Robert, Principal Clerk of Procedure; Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel; from the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament, Jamie Robertson.
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(e), the committee proceeded in camera for consideration of a draft agenda.
Pursuant to rule 86(1)(f), the committee proceeded to the consideration of aspects related to Parliamentary Privilege.
It was agreed that staff remain.
Mr. Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, was invited to make a brief statement to the committee.
Mr. Robert, Principal Clerk, Procedure, was invited to make a brief statement to the committee.
After discussion, it was agreed to continue debate at the next meeting of the committee.
At 1:36 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
Blair Armitage
Clerk of the Committee
OTTAWA, Tuesday, September 23, 2003
(46)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met in camera at 9:40 a.m. this day, in room 356-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Robertson, Rompkey, P.C. and Stratton (8).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, February 4, 2003, the committee proceeded to study the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., that the documents entitled: "Proposals to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner) and other Acts as a consequence" and "Proposals to amend the Rules of the Senate and the Standing Orders of the House of Commons to implement the 1997 Milliken-Oliver Report", tabled in the Senate on October 23, 2002. (For complete text of Order of Reference see proceedings of the committee.)
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), the committee proceeded in camera for consideration of a draft report.
It was agreed that staff remain.
At 11:21 a.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
Josée Thérien
Acting Clerk of the Committee
OTTAWA, Wednesday, September 24, 2003
(45)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met in camera at 12:22 p.m. this day, in room 160-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Downe, Fraser, Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Murray, P.C., Robertson and Stratton (10).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Corbin (1).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Tuesday, February 4, 2003, the committee proceeded to study the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., that the documents entitled: "Proposals to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner) and other Acts as a consequence" and "Proposals to amend the Rules of the Senate and the Standing Orders of the House of Commons to implement the 1997 Milliken-Oliver Report," tabled in the Senate on October 23, 2002. (For complete text of Order of Reference see proceedings of the committee.)
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), the committee proceeded in camera for consideration of a draft report.
It was agreed that staff remain.
The Honourable Senator Joyal, on a point of order, informed his colleagues that he had secured certain information respecting certain Parliamentary Privileges he had promised to find for distribution.
It was agreed that the document — an extract from the journals of the House of Commons, 1873 — be distributed at the meeting and to have the Clerk distribute it to the offices of members of the committee.
The Honourable Senator Milne moved — That following the conclusion of the meeting, a drafting subcommittee be established to work with staff on a revised draft for future consideration, and that the subcommittee be composed of both parties to be determined in consultation.
The question being put on the motion, it was agreed.
At 1:30 p.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Tuesday, September 30, 2003
(46)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met in camera at 9:35 a.m. this day, in room 356-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Cook, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Rompkey, P.C. and Smith, P.C. (7).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young; Charles Robert, Principal Clerk of Procedure; Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.
Pursuant to rule 86(1)(f), the committee proceeded to the consideration of aspects related to Parliamentary Privilege.
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), the committee proceeded in camera for consideration of a draft report.
It was agreed that staff remain.
Mr. Charles Robert, Principal Clerk, Procedure, was invited to make a brief statement to the committee.
Mr. Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, was invited to make a brief statement to the committee.
Together, Mr. Robert and Mr. Audcent answered questions.
After debate, it was agreed — That the Chair draft and circulate a document exploring issues, positions and options before the committee.
At 11:15 a.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Tuesday, October 21, 2003
(47)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met in camera at 9:33 a.m. this day, in room 356-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Cordy, Di Nino, Fairbairn, P.C., Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Kinsella, Massicotte, Milne, Murray, P.C., Robertson, Smith, P.C. and Stratton (13).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young; Charles Robert, Principal Clerk of Procedure; Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.
Pursuant to rule 86(1)(f), the committee proceeded to the consideration of aspects related to Parliamentary Privilege.
Pursuant to rule 92(2)(f), the committee proceeded in camera for consideration of a draft report.
It was agreed that staff remain.
After debate, it was agreed — That a final synthesis be prepared for the consideration of the committee.
It was agreed — That the in camera transcripts be released to Internal Economy and any agent retained for the preparation of any legal work on behalf of the Senate.
It was agreed — That The Honourable Senator Fraser represent the committee along with a member to be named by the Opposition.
At 10:54 a.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Tuesday, October 28, 2003
(48)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met at 9:35 a.m. this day, in room 160- S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Cordy, Downe, Fairbairn, P.C., Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Kinsella, Milne, Oliver, Ringuette, Robertson, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. and Stratton (16).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Lavigne (1).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Monday, October 27, 2003,the committee preceded its study on Bill C-34, an Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence.
APPEARING:
The Honourable Don Boudria, P.C., M.P., Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons.
The Honourable Sharon Carstairs, P.C., Leader of the Government in the Senate.
WITNESSES:
From the Privy Council Office:
Mr. Mitch Bloom, Privy Council Officier;
Mr. Ron Wall, Director, Parliamentary Operations.
The Honourable Don Boudria, P.C., M.P., Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, made a statement and, with Mr. Wall and Mr. Bloom, answered questions.
The Honourable Sharon Carstairs, P.C., Leader of the Government in the Senate, made a statement and answered questions.
At 11:38 a.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Wednesday, October 29, 2003
(49)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met at 12:14 p.m. this day, in room 160-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Cordy, Downe, Fraser, Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Oliver, Ringuette, Robertson, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. and Stratton (15).
Other senators present: The Honourable Senators Cools, Gauthier, Lavigne and Sparrow (4).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Monday, October 27, 2003,the committee preceded its study on Bill C-34, an Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence.
WITNESS:
From the Senate of Canada:
Mr. Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.
Mark Audcent made a statement and answered questions.
At 1:30 p.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Thursday, October 30, 2003
(50)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met at 10:08 a.m. this day, in room 256-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Andreychuk, Beaudoin, Cordy, Downe, Fraser, Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Ringuette, Robertson, Robichaud P.C., Rompkey, P.C. and Smith, P.C. (14).
Other senators present: The Honourable Senators Gauthier, Kroft and Sparrow (3).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Monday, October 27, 2003,the committee preceded its study on Bill C-34, an Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence.
WITNESSES:
As individuals:
Mr. Robert Marleau, Former Clerk of the House of Commons;
Mr. Joseph Maingot.
It was moved by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk — That the committee adjourn to the next regularly scheduled meeting of the committee.
The question being put on the motion, it was defeated on division.
Mr. Marleau made a statement and answered questions.
At 12:22 p.m., the committee suspended.
At 12:31 p.m., the committee resumed.
Mr. Maingot made a statement and answered questions.
At 1:30 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
OTTAWA, Friday, October 31, 2003
(51)
[English]
The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament met at 10:16 a.m. this day, in room 160-S Centre Block, the Honourable Lorna Milne, Chair, presiding.
Members of the committee present: The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Grafstein, Hubley, Joyal, P.C., Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C. and Smith, P.C. (10).
Other senator present: The Honourable Senator Gauthier (1).
In attendance: From the Parliamentary Research Branch, Library of Parliament: Jamie Robertson and Margie Young, Mark Audcent, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.
Pursuant to the Order of Reference adopted by the Senate on Monday, October 27, 2003,the committee preceded its study on Bill C-34, an Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence.
Mr. Audcent was invited to address specific drafting questions related to Bill C-34.
The Honourable Senator Fraser moved — That the Law Clerk be instructed to correct a parchment error in clause 12, on line 26, of the English version, by replacing the words "Ethics Commissioner" with the words "Senate Ethics Officer".
The question being put on the motion, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senator Joyal, P.C. (1).
ABSTENTIONS — The Honourable Senator Grafstein (1).
It was agreed — That, the committee proceed to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-34.
It was agreed that the Title stand postponed, carried on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clause 1, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clause 2, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clause 3, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clauses 4-11, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clause 12 as corrected, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clauses 13-25, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put on clauses 26-42, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put that the Title carry, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
ABSTENTIONS — (0).
The question being put that Bill C-34 be adopted, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — (0).
ABSTENTIONS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
The question being put that the Chair report this Bill at the next sitting of the Senate, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS — The Honourable Senators Chaput, Downe, Fraser, Hubley, Milne, Ringuette, Rompkey, P.C., Smith, P.C. (8).
NAYS — (0).
ABSTENTIONS — The Honourable Senators Grafstein and Joyal, P.C. (2).
At 11:13 a.m., it was agreed that the committee adjourn to the call of the Chair.
ATTEST:
Blair Armitage
Clerk of the Committee