THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON INDIGENOUS PEOPLES
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, February 25, 2026
The Standing Senate Committee on Indigenous Peoples met with videoconference this day at 6:46 p.m. [ET] to examine, and report on, the government response, dated April 26, 2024, to the committee’s fourteenth report (interim), entitled Honouring the Children Who Never Came Home: Truth, Education and Reconciliation, tabled in the Senate on July 19, 2023, during the First Session of the Forty-fourth Parliament; and, in camera, to examine, and report on, the Voices of Youth Indigenous Leaders events.
Senator Michèle Audette (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: [Innu-aimun spoken]
I am happy to be with you and to be surrounded by remarkable people. I find my 2026 to be filled with little gems and gifts from life, including my colleagues in the Senate and those who are pursuing their careers in the federal public service. Usually, I start with a small Innu drum, but I think it’s gone missing.
It’s always important to take care of the people who interpret our emotions, our messages and our words, by not approaching the microphones with our cellphones or the devices provided for interpretation, and by making sure to leave them on the little stickers next to us. It’s a procedure that must be repeated for the people who help us in our discussions. Thank you for your cooperation.
[English]
I would like to say thank you and also acknowledge the people of this land, the Anishinaabe People, who have been there for a long time. They protect the water and the land, and they agree that we be here. They share this space with us, so I say thank you to the Anishinaabe People.
I also want to acknowledge some amazing warriors from British Columbia who just arrived. Senator Francis brought them here. Thank you, Senator Francis.
My name is Michèle, and I’m from the Innu Nation. You can tell that I have a French accent in English. I chair this committee along with my amazing colleagues. I would like to hear where you are from. Introduce yourselves, please.
[Translation]
Senator Clement: I’m Bernadette Clement from Cornwall, Ontario.
[English]
It is located on the traditional territory of the Mohawk People of Akwesasne. I will say shé:kon as well. I am a senator from Ontario.
Senator Pate: Kim Pate, welcome. I live here in the unceded, unsurrendered, unreturned territory of the Anishinaabeg Algonquin Nation.
[Translation]
Senator Boudreau: Victor Boudreau from New Brunswick.
[English]
Senator McCallum: Mary Jane McCallum, from Treaty 10, Manitoba.
Senator Francis: Senator Francis, from Epekwitk, Prince Edward Island.
Senator White: Judy White, Ktaqmkuk, better known as Newfoundland and Labrador, Mi’kmaq territory.
Senator Greenwood: Margo Greenwood, originally Treaty 6 in Alberta, but I am a senator from British Columbia.
The Chair: And we love you.
[Translation]
We are meeting this evening pursuant to our order of reference on the government’s response, dated April 26, 2024, to the committee’s fourteenth report (interim), entitled Honouring the Children Who Never Came Home: Truth, Education and Reconciliation, tabled in the Senate on July 19, 2023, during the First Session of the Forty-fourth Parliament.
[English]
Today, we have the pleasure of welcoming at the table an amazing Mi’kmaw woman, along with your colleagues. I will let you introduce your colleagues.
[Translation]
Valerie Gideon, Deputy Minister, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Thank you very much.
[English]
I’m Valerie Gideon. I am a member of the Gesgapegiag First Nation in the beautiful province of Quebec, and I am the Deputy Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. I am also the President of the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario.
Darlene Bess, Assistant Deputy Minister, Resolution and Partnerships, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Good evening. I am Darlene Bess, Assistant Deputy Minister for Resolution and Partnerships at Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, or CIRNAC. Thank you.
Krista Robertson, Senior Director, Litigation, Resolution and Policy, Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada: Hello. I am Krista Robertson, Senior Director for Litigation, Resolution and Policy at Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada.
[Translation]
Jasmine Bouchard, Assistant Deputy Minister, User Experience and Engagement, Library and Archives Canada: Good evening. I’m Jasmine Bouchard, Assistant Deputy Minister, Library and Archives Canada.
Roxane Lafrenière, Director General, Government Record Branch, Library and Archives Canada: Good evening. I’m Roxane Lafrenière, Director General, Government Record Branch, Library and Archives Canada.
The Chair: Thank you very much for being here this evening. Before we hear your statements, I’d ask everyone present to please mute notifications on their electronic devices. For those in the back, you can have translation.
[English]
It’s on your seat if you want to listen if the conversation is in French.
[Translation]
Thank you very much. We are ready to hear from you, Ms. Gideon.
Ms. Gideon: Thank you very much. Kwe kwe. Tansi. Good evening.
[English]
While the territory has been acknowledged, I also would like to recognize that we are here on the traditional unceded and unsurrendered Algonquin Anishinaabe People’s territory, where I have the privilege of not just working but living and raising my two daughters.
I would like to thank you for this invitation, Madam Chair. We are pleased to be here to speak about the response we delivered on the committee’s fourteenth interim report, Honouring the Children Who Never Came Home: Truth, Education and Reconciliation.
[Translation]
We accept all six of the committee’s recommendations, and we understand how important it is to respond to you directly on them.
[English]
We support the implementation of Calls to Action 74 to 76 through the Residential Schools Missing Children Community Support Fund. Established in 2021, this fund supports community-led and survivor-centric efforts to document and memorialize missing children and burial sites associated with former residential schools and to honour families’ wishes to repatriate children’s remains.
To date, 164 funding agreements have been put in place, totalling $280 million delivered through the community support fund.
[Translation]
These initiatives have supported extensive community-led truth-telling and healing. More than 40 ceremonial and commemorative events have been held, and several memorials have been built. Over 25 engagement sessions have been held to hear from Survivors, communities and families on issues such as data gathering, kinship mapping and next steps.
[English]
Ground searches across the country have so far led to the location of hundreds of soil anomalies, with more work needed to confirm burial sites. Work has also been undertaken to protect known unmarked graves. All this work is guided by survivors, Elders and Indigenous protocols and is conducted in a trauma-informed and culturally appropriate way. Through these efforts, investigation work has taken place for 61% of former residential school sites.
Madam Chair, I would like to provide a few examples of the important work that communities have led. Cross Lake First Nation, Manitoba, has carried out archival research and knowledge gathering to help community members find answers about children who attended the Cross Lake Residential School. Their goal is to build a bridge to the past by fostering a digital space where the stories of residential school students can be shared so that their memory endures.
The Assiniboia Residential School Legacy Group has created a monument and gathering place in Winnipeg. This beautiful monument includes an inscription of the names of all children who attended and those who died while attending the Assiniboia Residential School.
[Translation]
Madam Chair, I would also like to speak about our work on records.
Over the next two years, the Government of Canada will provide $2.6 million to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation to continue developing the National Residential School Student Death Register and its public-facing Memorial Register.
[English]
We are also supporting the work of the centre to create an online registry of residential school cemeteries, including through a partnership with our Geomatics Services.
Canada fulfilled the obligation to disclose all relevant documents to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, or TRC, through the transfer of over 4 million documents to the commission by 2015. These records were then transferred from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to their current home at the centre, as required by the commission’s mandate.
[Translation]
We will continue to explore how we can make records more accessible to the public and share additional records with the centre, while at the same time respecting legislation, court orders, settlement agreements and ongoing litigation processes.
[English]
To date, this work has resulted in an additional 1,853 documents that have been disclosed to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, or NCTR, and we are working to continue identifying documents which can be disclosed to the centre. This includes identifying any potential barriers to the disclosure of these remaining documents, such as privacy issues and litigation privilege. We expect to disclose additional documents to the centre later this calendar year.
Education is essential for all Canadians to understand this chapter of our history and walk together on the path of reconciliation.
[Translation]
To support this work, Budget 2024 included an investment of $5 million over three years, starting in 2025-26, for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada to establish a program to combat residential school denialism.
[English]
Madam Chair, we know there is still much more to do to support communities in their efforts to locate and honour the children who never came home from residential schools. We remain firmly committed to this work, and we applaud the Senate’s commitment to this important issue.
Wela’lioq.
[Translation]
The Chair: [Innu-aimun spoken], Ms. Gideon. I will give the floor to Senator Brian Francis, who was the leader for several years. Excuse me, Ms. Bouchard also wants to deliver her remarks.
[English]
So sorry, chief.
[Translation]
Ms. Bouchard: Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for your invitation. In its report entitled Honouring the Children Who Never Came Home: Truth, Education and Reconciliation, the committee requested that Library and Archives Canada, or LAC, expedite the transfer of records related to residential schools to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. The report drew particular attention to day school records and audiovisual materials. I am happy to give you an update today on progress made since the release of the report.
Between 2008 and 2015, LAC had already submitted over two million pages to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, as my colleague mentioned.
Following the committee’s recommendation, we have transferred 45,000 additional pages of records from the School Files Series. The National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation now holds a complete copy of that series, which it can make available to Survivors, their families and researchers.
In addition, LAC has transferred about 20 audiovisual records related to residential schools, coming mainly from CBC, the National Film Board, the Department of National Defence and the RCMP.
Beyond these transfers, LAC has continued its efforts to improve the preservation of and access to residential school and day school documents.
Over the past three years, we have digitized 5.7 million additional pages. These documents related to day schools include student lists, inspection reports, photos, maps and plans. The majority are already searchable in LAC’s databases.
We have also developed tools to help navigate these extensive records, including an overview page, a research guide and an information booklet that will be published online shortly.
Many of these documents contain personal information. Access to them is therefore restricted, but Survivors and families can submit requests for access to LAC, and our team will actively support them in their efforts.
Over the last two years, our team has responded to more than 1,000 requests for research help related to Indigenous communities. We also responded to 485 formal access to information and privacy requests.
Madam Chair, Library and Archives Canada is well aware of its special responsibility in this matter. As the custodian of many accounts and documents that are essential to the truth, we know that access to information is a fundamental condition for reconciliation. We continue our efforts with this objective in mind.
We will gladly answer any of your questions.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
[English]
Senator Francis: My question is about the Residential School Documents Advisory Committee. In July 2024, Cadmus Delorme, who was the chair, resigned along with eight other members, citing insufficient funding to fulfill their mandate. The decision came after repeated requests for funds to complete an independent audit and other activities went ignored by Ottawa.
Many of us have raised questions since 2024 but still have no answers about the status of the Residential School Documents Advisory Committee. Could you confirm if the chair and members have resumed their work, and could you describe what work, if any, the advisory committee has completed over the past 19 months?
Ms. Gideon: No, the advisory committee has not resumed their work. You are correct, senator, that they had made a funding proposal for principally the hiring of an external firm to be able to manage the identification of the documents that had been estimated at about 23 million additional documents they were interested in reviewing. They had done and completed the work with respect to an expanded definition to inform the search of additional records, which we are using. It is an extensive definition that has a lot of search criteria. It’s about 10 pages long, and it goes into a significant amount of detail. The chair did make the decision to pause the work of the documents advisory committee. We did not pause the work on the search of records.
We did — and I can say this because I was personally involved in the communication — share with the chair that despite the fact that that particular funding request had not been successful in terms of receiving funds, we were in a position in the department to pursue the work and to undertake it, and that includes working with 13 different federal departments and agencies, and that we would use the documents advisory committee’s definition to inform that search.
Senator Francis: Has there been funding allocated to them?
Ms. Gideon: Not to the documents advisory committee per se, since they paused the work, but the funding is to search the records and the documents, and we have continued to invest funding in our department to be able to fulfill that function.
Senator Francis: Thank you.
Senator White: Thank you. It is great to see you all. Thank you all for the work you do. My question is about Recommendation 6 of the committee’s report, about the denialism. Ms. Gideon, you spoke about $5 million over three years to develop a program. What I want to hear is more information about what this program is. How does the Government of Canada ensure this remains a priority, and what steps are you taking in moving forward to make sure that — we have to combat the rise in denialism about residential schools.
Ms. Gideon: I totally agree with you. This was funding that was announced in Budget 2024. Because of the federal electoral process and so forth, there was a delay in terms of us wanting to draw down the funds. We felt it was important to seek the advice of our current ministers in that process with respect to how the funds should be best utilized. So, we will be carrying over and drawing down those funds in 2026-27.
We are very open to suggestions and ideas. I would say that the department’s advice thus far has really been to look at an Indigenous partner organization to lead that work with the federal government’s funding and with the federal government supporting, but that the federal government running it as a federal program might not be the most effective way to be able to do that.
There have been discussions that we want to have with certain partner organizations that have extensive expertise already in terms of development of materials and awareness with respect to the history of residential schools as well as curriculum development. There has been a lot of work and a lot of expertise, and we feel that the best mechanism would be to draw from that and utilize this funding to ramp up and expand the reach of those existing tools and materials.
Senator Pate: Thank you for joining us. My question also relates to Recommendation 6. The committee and, of course, the government have noted the impact of residential school denialism on the lack of awareness amongst the general public, as well as the lack of action regarding the negative impacts of residential schools on generations of Indigenous Peoples.
I wish to focus specifically on the consequence, highlighted by the TRC, of ongoing mass incarceration of Indigenous youth, men and women. I’m curious: At a time when calls to be tough on crime abound and when the federal government has missed its 2025 deadline to end the overrepresentation of Indigenous Peoples in prisons, according to Call to Action 30, and to propose ending the use of mandatory minimum penalties, which was Call to Action 32, what steps are you taking to raise awareness about the interrelationship of these issues and how we need to redress the discriminatory impact of residential schools on generations — the ongoing impact on generations?
Ms. Gideon: Thank you, senator. I would say our department has a couple of roles that would be relevant to what you have raised, understanding that we are not, obviously, the Department of Justice or Public Safety, but we do have a role with respect to coordinating the information with respect to what the federal government is doing in relation to all of the Calls to Action that obviously implicate the federal government. So we do play that type of coordination function.
We have also provided and put into the Indigenous Justice Strategy that had been launched prior to the last federal election, and I know Minister Fraser has referenced it a few times, so it is about, from our perspective, as you noted, just ensuring that the approach offers opportunities for distinctions-based submissions that had been made by partners in the context of the Indigenous Justice Strategy, funded through the Department of Justice over a significant portion of time, and how those things relate to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action but also the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, or UNDRIP, and the UNDRIP Act Action Plan.
We do not have a direct role with respect to addressing the issues of overrepresentation and incarceration of youth and everything that you’ve raised, but we can provide advice to the portfolio. As I noted, we can also ensure that the actions are reported against on an annual basis in terms of the report on self‑determination and reports against the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s follow-up.
Senator Pate: The denialism is very much linked to what has often been described as the “new residential schools,” which is the incarceration of Indigenous people. The cost of incarcerating Indigenous people in this country is rising because the numbers are also rising. The Canadian Human Rights Commission and the courts have also found, of course, the overclassification of Indigenous people. Not only are they more likely to be imprisoned, but they’re also more likely to be kept in higher security and in segregation, in structured intervention units.
We start to see the costs mounting into hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Those resources could be used by communities. We just came from the Legal Committee, where we heard about communities wanting resources to set up agreements, nation-to-nation relationships, to reclaim their citizens.
What kind of role are you playing in that? It strikes me that some of those departments have taken a very limited and myopic view, if I can use that term, of residential schools. If it gets put into an assessment, it is seen as being taken care of, instead of really looking at the responsibility that it puts on Canada to undo those intergenerational impacts, particularly the trauma.
The Chair: There are 20 seconds left for the answer.
Ms. Gideon: I can say that looking at the awareness efforts to counter denialism in the justice system is an excellent recommendation. One area for which our department is responsible is the negotiation of modern treaty self-government agreements and so forth. There are administration-of-justice interests across a number of our negotiation tables. In fact, we did announce this year an administration-of-justice chapter that was actually included as part of one of the modern treaties. So there is an interest in the reclaiming of citizens, as you’ve noted, in the context of modern treaty and self-government agreements.
Senator Greenwood: I have some really straightforward questions. As I was listening to you reporting about moving the records to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission facilities, I wondered if these are all originals.
Ms. Bouchard: Actually, we do digital repatriation and digital copy transfers. We keep originals at Library and Archives Canada, or LAC, and we do send over electronic copies.
Senator Greenwood: So you hold the originals, but you give digital copies. I know you’ve digitized a lot of it but not all of it. Are you still moving some that aren’t digitized yet? Did I misunderstand what you were saying?
Ms. Bouchard: No, it’s fine. I’m happy to recap. Between 2008 and 2015, we digitized 2 million pages during the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Those have all been transferred to the commission and then over to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation afterwards.
In 2022, LAC received funding to digitize an additional 6 million pages related to the day schools. We went back to our collection and digitized those pages. We’ve sent over a small portion, which is the school file series. There is a folder about each school, sometimes with pictures, plans, student lists. Those have all been sent over. It’s a series of about 45,000 pages.
We just finished the digitization of the other 6 million pages. We’re ready to pick up the conversation about what access to those collections will look like. It took us two years to go through them, which is a record time for LAC. It’s quite an endeavour to digitize all of those pages. They are scattered across the country, in many boxes in our storage facilities.
The team tried to make access much easier for folks. Oftentimes, we have metadata or data about those boxes that are like “Box from CIRNAC from 2004.” That makes it very hard for people to understand what could be in those boxes. Over the last two years, our team went through them with a fine comb and listed everything very specifically, items like 22 pictures with students, student lists, pay stubs. They provided all these additional details so that people looking at the descriptions can easily determine whether a box is of interest to them.
We’re at that stage in the process. We’ve wrapped up all of this. Now we’re looking into how to provide access as easily as possible, given the constraint of all the laws that come into play for all the materials that can be restricted or private.
Senator Greenwood: Senator Francis asked you a question about records. What was the name of that committee?
Ms. Gideon: It was the Residential School Documents Advisory Committee.
Senator Greenwood: What was the role of the documents advisory committee relative to what you’re doing in transferring everything? What was their role? I was curious about that.
Ms. Bouchard: The day school project was not under the purview of the committee. The project was tasked to LAC separately.
[Translation]
Excuse me, I’m going to switch to French. The words are getting all mixed up in my head.
[English]
I’m sorry. You guys are warriors.
[Translation]
For the schools and day schools project, then, the documentation that was gathered was a project that was parallel, in a way, to the committee’s work. LAC is a member of the committee, so we’re definitely very interested in participating in the government’s efforts in this respect. This was done in parallel.
[English]
Senator Greenwood: What is the role, given that the department is continuing some of the functions? Was it an oversight role? What was the role, so that I understand that structure?
Ms. Gideon: I can respond to that. At the time, in 2021, our minister, who was Minister Miller at the time, committed to developing a strategy to identify and share previously unshared residential school records with the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation.
At that time, he struck a documents advisory committee to help support the development of that process. Their initial work was really to develop the definition to ensure it might be broader than the more restricted definition that had been elaborated by the court during the initial Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement. It was intended to broaden the search and scope of documents.
A number of documents under that 23-million estimate are duplicate records. They’re not necessarily documents that have not yet been shared. But that was the advice of the documents advisory committee — how to define it so the search is broader.
Senator Greenwood: As you’re doing your work within the department, do you miss the advice? Would it be helpful to have that committee’s advice or direction in the work that you’re doing now? You said you’re continuing the functions, but is there a piece missing for you, an oversight piece or something that might be helpful to the work?
Ms. Gideon: To be honest, our relationship is with the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. We have good collaboration with them. We just had a meeting with them this week. I know the executive director of the centre is coming to speak with you. Maybe that’s a question that you could direct to her.
From our perspective, we do feel we are making progress, and that would be my response to that. The team is not coming to me to say we’re running into technical barriers or issues whereby we can’t fulfill our obligations.
Senator Greenwood: Thank you.
The Chair: I’m so glad you mentioned —
[Translation]
— the national council or their involvement. I’m glad to hear that.
[English]
Senator McCallum: Thank you for your presentations. You know I went to residential school for 11 years. We have found unmarked graves with cadaver dogs. What I want is just a short answer on if this is a whole-of-government approach between Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC; Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, or CIRNAC; and the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation.
Ms. Gideon: Yes, but NCTR is not part of the government.
Senator McCallum: I know.
Ms. Gideon: Yes.
Senator McCallum: Because you all work together. I work with the residential school mental health trauma-informed program, and Indigenous Services Canada has just given them notice that their funding will all be cut, with residential schools, with the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls — it’s about five programs. I’m going to be writing a letter to the minister about that.
So when you’re looking at the unmarked graves — and I look at the letter that came from the minister — one arm is cutting the funding, and it’s very critical, especially because there’s ongoing trauma. I know; I’m going through it. And then the other arm is uncovering these graves, which means there’s even more trauma coming in. Because it says, “The Government of Canada . . . to support continued healing . . . promoting public education . . .,” but what I’m looking at is the healing. So if one arm is going to cut it, this one is going to continue to unearth trauma. And then you have the NCTR, which is involved in the healing, in the education, in promoting public education, so there’s a close relationship here. How is that all going to work if they’re going to cut that funding?
I hope they don’t, but they were threatening to last year. And this is intergenerational stuff. It’s going to last for generations. I see it in my family. I carry it. I carry that genocide within me. And it’s not easy.
The reason I’m looking at all this is I have a bill on the floor with the crime against humanity, and this is one of the last links that I’m looking at before I start that motion.
Can you give us an idea of what is happening? Who monitors? How does the NCTR go out publicly to do the work they need to do for public education? Who ensures that? And who does the education? Is it First Nations and intergenerational people? Is it Métis people? Is it the Sixties Scoop? Because it’s very important that people understand what is happening at a grassroots level.
I see that you have donated funding for the Residential Schools Missing Children Community Support Fund until 2033. I wanted a picture of how this is working.
Ms. Gideon: Thank you very much, senator, and you’re right; it is quite complex. Over the years, we have received — and not necessarily CIRNAC; sometimes it’s ISC. Actually, lots of it predates the establishment of these two departments, to be honest. When we would receive a settlement, we would include funding for those mental wellness supports, and, over the years, we’ve continued to improve upon that.
There’s the National Sixties Scoop Healing Foundation of Canada. Just recently, in the settlement of the class action for Indian hospitals, we have an additional, I think, $150 million for mental wellness supports just for those class members. But we have worked over the years with Indigenous Services in terms of their mental wellness programming because those workers who started with the Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement years ago — we continued to invest in the capacity of those organizations because they already had the expertise. They already had the ability to do it. We wanted to build in flexibility so that if you’re an intergenerational survivor or survivor yourself, it doesn’t matter what the source of the trauma is. Everyone should have access to those critical supports.
We also work to ensure that we blended those approaches with Non-Insured Health Benefits, whereas before that was very rigid, and then we were able to kind of evolve it towards this more integrated mental wellness system, which I feel is actually a best practice and that other Canadians would really learn a lot from those programs.
I’m not, myself, aware of a confirmation of the end of those sources of funding. I will absolutely follow up with my colleague at Indigenous Services Canada. I can tell you that we have secured the funding for the Indian hospital class action, and we still have some funding from some of the other settlement agreements that are continuing to roll out. I’m looking at Krista Robertson because she manages all of those. But there remains some funding that is available through that process, as well as through the compensation agreement on First Nations Child and Family Services as well, where there are mental wellness resources that are built in.
So there are resources there, but if you are hearing that, senator, and we’re hearing it from others, we do need to follow up to find out what is happening.
Senator Clement: Thank you for being here. I want to come back to the issue of denialism and the question that Senator White asked you.
In the communities that I’ve been in recently — it’s Black History Month, so I’ve been in my communities — people have noticed an uptick in issues around racist commentary. I have also seen posts on social media about denialism. It sometimes feels like we take a few steps back sometimes.
In responding to Senator White, you said the government was looking to partner or to have communities lead that. My concern is about putting a lot of work and extra burden on communities. I wonder if you reach out to allies or to other organizations that can amplify or support communities in that work. Because sometimes we leave all of the emotional labour to the communities. We just heard what Senator McCallum said. She sits here as an expert, but she also pours in her lived experience, and that is hard.
I have a second question, and then I’ll step away and you can use the rest of the time to answer. In response to denialism, we think about curriculum development, and I wonder what you know about curriculum development and how it’s different or not across provinces and territories, and whether you pay attention to that or what role you have there.
Ms. Gideon: Thank you very much for your question. Five million dollars over three years will not be sufficient to fund all communities, so we’re absolutely looking at organizations that have that expertise and have that outreach and already have a capacity as a foundation.
Many years ago, when the Aboriginal Healing Foundation did exist, they had set up the Legacy of Hope Foundation, which still exists. That organization actually had developed some really strong materials to influence provincial — any type of curriculum, but they were really targeting schools. They were targeting provincial schools, and they were making that material available. That is an example — a strong example — of an organization that has undertaken that type of work.
It is a good point with respect to what the uptake has been, with respect to provinces, of some of that material? The role we play in the department is really to coordinate the federal response. We don’t have that type of leverage with respect to monitoring what provinces or territories or others are doing with respect to the Calls to Action.
Now, a number of provinces do have their own processes. But it is a good point, and I do think that, as we have evolved over a number of years since the release of the report, of course, 10 years ago, it’s something that I can bring to our ministers — to sort of talk about things that they could bring to their colleagues.
On Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, for example, we do have annual round tables. We just had one two weeks ago. The provinces and the territorial governments participate in that. They bring in their First Nations, Inuit and Métis representatives they work with to advance the Calls for Justice. It’s a good approach whereby there are a lot of best practices that are shared in grassroots organizations. If we had something like that with respect to tackling an issue like denialism, for example, it would give us a much better line of sight as to what is happening to be able to counter this.
The Chair: I wish to remind — I’m sure you know, Ms. Gideon — that when the government does contract work with an organization, it is always in English. There are First Nations where French was imposed, as you can tell was the case with mine. It is difficult to get the information or to get the proper project or program. That is one thing. Let’s remind the government or the elected people that if we do something, we have to ensure that there is something, Indigenous languages also. You asked if we have any suggestions; that would be my suggestion — with lots of love — Indigenous languages but also grassroots.
People are saving lives or walking to save lives everywhere across Canada. How do we reach them also to support this work that they carry out with no funding? I know you do not have the answer now, or maybe you do, but it is something I will always bring up.
[Translation]
Ms. Gideon: Through our Community Support Fund, several communities have done work — and I cited a few examples — to showcase their own history with respect to residential schools, to erect monuments and to find ways to educate so the history lives on and continues. A lot of activities have been carried out. The communities were very engaged.
[English]
Senator Prosper: Thank you to all of our witnesses here. I have a question for Ms. Bouchard.
Accessing the Library and Archives Canada records often faces delays due to high demand, technical issues with online databases or strict long-duration reviews for restricted, sensitive documents.
In 2024, Christian Brodersen, a master of information candidate with the University of Toronto, wrote a paper entitled “’The inalienable right to know’: Continued Barriers to Archival Access for Indigenous Communities in Post-Truth and Reconciliation Commission Canada.” In that paper, he echoes many of the complaints that we have heard from witnesses and that I have heard from the community. For instance, he points to outdated legislation that creates barriers as opposed to facilitating access.
Has your department, Libraries and Archives Canada, looked at updates to outdated provisions in the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act in order to facilitate easier access to records for families and Indigenous Peoples? Thank you.
Ms. Bouchard: I can share that LAC has been a part of the conversation with the whole of government in their updating and renewing of the Access to Information Act. There is a review under way. LAC is part of that conversation, even though we are not the lead on these efforts.
I can share a few things that have been done over at LAC because I have heard these concerns about the delays in access to restricted information from our organization.
There has been substantial investment from the government over the past five years, over $100 million, into accelerating access to information through our department, as well as tackling the backlog, which was a huge backlog. I am happy to report we have cleared over 90% of the backlog.
In terms of requests for access to information and privacy, or ATIP requests, that are submitted today, some will take about 200 days to resolve, depending upon the scope of the request. Because if someone asks for a very specific document versus hundreds or thousands of pages, it is much more complex. But that number has gone down from well over 600 days. So we have been able to make a substantial improvement over the last few years through a number of government investments.
Senator Prosper: You mentioned there is an ongoing review. Can you provide specifics as to how long that is going to take, what the overall product will be, and how it will be used?
Ms. Bouchard: I can’t at the moment. I don’t have the information, but I’m happy to follow up with the committee in writing if that is okay.
Senator Prosper: Thank you.
Senator McPhedran: My apologies for having to come late due to another commitment, but I have been getting updates of the discussion as it continues.
I wish to go into more detail from questions asked by Senator McCallum and Senator Prosper.
With regard to Senator McCallum’s question where she has raised the fact that this committee made the recommendation that the Residential Schools Missing Children Community Support Fund should extend to 2033, you responded — not you personally, but departments responded in 2024 — to this committee and told us that 146 agreements totalling about $221 million were in place.
My question is — and if you don’t have it tonight, I am asking for an answer in writing to the committee, please — what the current number of agreements is and how many communities have applied and are still waiting for funding.
Ms. Gideon: We have 164 funding agreements totalling $280 million. Those agreements cover work in 89 of the 140 Indian residential schools, which is where the 61% figure comes from.
In terms of the number of recipients, though, there are 164 recipients. In terms of how many communities — because we do it by the number of residential school coverage, not the number of communities — we would have to look because some organizations are supporting a number of communities that had children who attended those residential schools. It wasn’t one residential school per community in many cases. So we would have to go back to look at the number of communities.
Senator McPhedran: My question also was how many communities have applied and are still waiting for funding where there hasn’t been a decision about funding?
Ms. Gideon: We have completed the decisions of funding for this fiscal year. We are in the process of launching, in a few weeks, our application process for 2026-27. It varies year by year.
We recognize that, in the past, our calls for applications had been delayed, particularly last year. We went through a federal electoral process, so we waited for the election to be done before we launched the call for applications. This year we want to go sooner to give people more time to continue on with their activities.
Senator McPhedran: Thank you. Does anyone else wish to add to that?
I wanted to go more deeply into the questions that Senator Prosper asked you as to whether it is under consideration — and if not, why not — for expedited access, a faster track process for people who are terminally ill or they are urgently searching for a missing child?
Ms. Bouchard: Yes, absolutely. That is something that people can request. Our team will be looking for it in the request. If someone makes an ATIP request through the formal form, they can provide details; they are not obligated to, but they can provide details as to why they are asking for the file and what important timeline they have coming up. A court case would be another example where someone may want materials more urgently. It is something that we will be looking for as we parse through the requests that come in. We will try to accelerate those as best as we can.
Senator McPhedran: If I understand your answer correctly, the only beginning point is ATIP?
Ms. Bouchard: No.
Senator McPhedran: Please clarify.
Ms. Bouchard: Absolutely. If you were to start your research in LAC’s collection, we have an Indigenous research help team, and I would strongly suggest that someone start there, because it would help them define the material they are looking for and where it might be. A huge part of our collection is open and unrestricted, so if you are looking for materials in that part of the collection, it is quite quick. We will respond within four days to four weeks, depending on what people are looking for.
People are sent over to the ATIP part of the system only if what they’re looking for has restricted or private information. As best as we can, we try to open up the documents and have people go through the main door and access research help. We actually do proactive reviews of a number of parts of the collection to open them up because we know that ATIP is a big bottleneck for people. It is for us too. It is part of our goal to open access to as many documents as we can so we can provide easier access for everyone.
Senator Greenwood: Thank you. This is more of a comment than a question on combatting denialism. Did you say there were funds allocated for that in 2024? Is that right?
Ms. Gideon: Yes.
Senator Greenwood: Have there been any activities?
Ms. Gideon: Not yet. We are going to start next fiscal year.
Senator Greenwood: Good. Combatting denialism is important, but an outcome of that denialism is usually racism because they deny, and then it can often become straight-up racism, so that is what we’re combatting. This is a huge recommendation. I remember when we made it. It is huge. It is a societal change. If you were just looking at it at the government level, implementing UNDRIP through the legislation, you would be implementing cultural safety or anti-Indigenous racism in everything, and that is just in the federal government. That is not the rest of society and trying to get that information.
I offer this one comment because before I came to this place, I did a lot of work in these arenas, in knowledge translation, curriculum development and all of that. I think it is important. I like the response to partnership. I think that is the only way that you can spread out on so many levels. It is important to partner.
Sometimes, it is important to partner with diverse agencies because sometimes people hear things better from their friends rather than somebody else. It is important to consider that when you want to create change. Whom do you listen to? You go to your family and friends. This is huge. That is one strategy of many in our tool kit. I have learned that, over the years, if I want to create that change, then I think about multiple strategies.
Thank you for taking that work on, because it is huge, and for the allocation of funds to it.
[Translation]
The Chair: Do you have any comments or responses?
Ms. Gideon: We agree.
[English]
Senator McCallum: I want to look at the progress report to the standing committee from December 31. The first recommendation is that CIRNAC and LAC:
. . . take all necessary action to ensure that provincial and territorial governments and all organizations and entities that have withheld records . . . promptly release them.
Was that possible? Do you have jurisdiction in those areas? How did you manage it if it was done?
Ms. Gideon: We do not have jurisdiction to obligate provinces and territories. It would have to be done through the court. Krista, would you like to respond on the litigation side?
Ms. Robertson: To access records through provincial or territorial courts, we would have to go through them or file access to information requests. That, I can tell you, through litigation, has been incredibly challenging, and we do end up with documents that are largely redacted, which is not particularly helpful when a survivor or a community is trying to find information about their loved ones. That has been challenging.
I do know that a number of provinces are looking at options to speed up access, similar to what our colleagues from LAC have indicated they’re doing to make things more accessible. We have had some success over the years in working with religious organizations which were interested in removing some of the barriers for documents they had provided to Canada through litigation, so implied undertakings to get those releases so we could transfer those records to the NCTR.
Senator McCallum: Would you be able to provide for us the barriers that you go through and if you have any recommendations on what would need to happen to make it easier? Is there another way to get more complete records? Could you do that in writing?
My second question is this: This recommendation was about residential schools, but all the documents you talk about are all about day schools. With day schools, there is little chance there will be missing and murdered children because they would go home every day. I know a lot of students who have gone.
There is very little on residential schools here. Does that mean you have completed all the work that needs to be done? Because even in the conclusion, all you talk about is day schools. Could you provide us something on residential schools and the progress in writing, to be sent here? Because I do not think we have much time. Can you do it in writing? I am curious because this is about day schools. We are looking at —
Ms. Bouchard: Absolutely. We can follow up in writing and send more details. When the commission got under way, 2 million pages relating to residential schools were identified in LAC’s collections, so we have done a lot of the digitization and transfer already. We actually keep an eye on any incoming boxes to see if there is any other material that needs to be tagged and identified.
Senator McCallum: One short question: When you said you keep the original copies, who are the owners of those copies? I went through the second level, so I think my documents would be there. Who owns those?
There was a threat they would start shredding them by a certain date. Is that there still there? How did it stop? That is a lot of questions.
Ms. Gideon: There was a Supreme Court decision in 2017 to destroy personal information records from the independent assessment process and the alternative dispute resolution process, except for those preserved by the NCTR with express consent of specific survivors. That was the My Records, My Choice program. It will conclude on September 19, 2027.
Senator McCallum: Also, there’s no threat of these being shredded, because this is actually evidence, and we don’t want that.
Ms. Gideon: I was going to say the court has ordered that those records will be destroyed, unless there is express consent from the individual whom these records pertain to that is provided by September 19, 2027. If people consent, then those records will be preserved by the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation.
Senator McCallum: For the ones who have passed on —
Ms. Gideon: It would be their family members.
Senator McCallum: Okay, then we need to work on that.
Senator McPhedran: Thank you very much. I have two relatively brief questions asking for more detail.
Ms. Bouchard, when you explained to us the process and how LAC looks for the potential urgent situation or urgent request, does it state in the ATIP that there will be consideration given if it is an urgent request? In other words, do the people making the request have information that invites them to give details that would then allow you to respond in a more expedited manner?
Ms. Bouchard: I would have to confirm and follow up in writing.
Senator McPhedran: Yes, if you could check, because it is the beginning point of the process, and if they don’t know that this is a possibility, then it may well be that they will not give the information you are looking for.
Ms. Bouchard: Yes.
Senator McPhedran: Okay, thank you.
The other question is picking up on a previous question about extended funding. We have all mentioned 2033. Is there any confirmed extended funding beyond 2027?
Ms. Gideon: The answer is no. At this point, we’re still waiting for funding decisions, but that is not unusual.
Typically, decisions with respect to funds that are sunsetting come around this time of the year or even later. Typically, we have had federal budgets in the spring. The cycle seems odd this year because there was a federal budget in the fall, but the funds were sunsetting at the end of March, so we have a number of sunsetting decisions that are still to come. That is across the federal public service; it is not specific to our department. That has been the regular cycle every ever since I have been in government, which is too many years now.
Senator McPhedran: My questions might be a little bit different from that. What we have been emphasizing is a clear commitment to extend to 2033, so we’re not talking about fiscal year by fiscal year.
Is there active consideration of the recommendation of this committee that there could be reliable funding to 2033?
Ms. Gideon: I would say that part of what we would want — and I will just speak about my advice as a deputy minister of a department. I think that this program being managed by the federal government exclusively has not always been easy for Indigenous partners who have sought to access the funding.
We have obligations to regularly review programming to ensure that it is responsive to the needs of people who want to access funding. We are currently going through an internal audit of the program, for example. I think there are some things that could be improved.
My recommendation would absolutely be that there needs to continue to be some support for initiatives from communities, but I do think that there can be enhancements in terms of how that support is provided.
[Translation]
The Chair: Thank you very much. I understand that my Senate colleagues have asked you questions and are expecting answers. You can provide us with your written responses to the senators’ questions by March 6.
[English]
We will get a written answer on March 6. You also asked a question of me. My chief, Senator Francis, raised his hand before we close.
Senator Francis: You can go ahead.
The Chair: Okay, if I can ask. Thank you.
I’m not sure if I heard Senator McCallum say there are cuts in several programs, and MMIWG was mentioned. There is a link with residential schools and genocide. I am not asking for a letter, but I hope there are no cuts. Could we get more information if that is the case?
Ms. Gideon: That would be through Indigenous Services Canada. I can confirm, with respect to the funding that Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada has specifically for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, we do not have reductions in funding.
The Chair: But you still have that secretariat?
Ms. Gideon: We have a secretariat, and we still have some programming. We have some funding that will be sunsetting over the course of different years, but we don’t have reductions in this area.
The Chair: We all heard that. Thank you. I have been receiving texts.
Senator Francis: Thank you. If we don’t have time for the answer, you can provide it in writing.
Comprised of Indigenous people, as well as experts in forensics, archeology and others, the National Advisory Committee on Residential Schools Missing Children and Unmarked Burials was created in 2022 to provide independent, trusted and expert advice to Indigenous communities. However, the advisory committee discontinued its work in March 2025 after the federal government discontinued its funding. As a result, Indigenous communities can no longer rely on their technical support on ground-penetrating radar, forensic anthropology, archival research and more, increasing vulnerability to private providers who may charge excessive fees or operate without proper regulation.
Why was the funding for the advisory committee discontinued? Where can Indigenous communities searching for burial sites turn to now for expert guidance?
Ms. Gideon: Thank you very much for the question, senator.
You are correct; there was funding of $5.7 million that had been allocated toward support for the national advisory committee. It had always been announced as sunsetting on March 31, 2025, and it did sunset at that time.
Communities or organizations that are supporting communities do have other options with respect to seeking expert support. I think we have continued to suggest that if they need any help with respect to identifying that kind of expert support, our team can help match them with individuals who would have that expertise. But I would say that we have not necessarily heard this is an important gap area at this point in time. I would say to you that this is how we have continued to manage those community requests.
Senator Francis: Thank you.
[Translation]
The Chair: Before we conclude, Ms. Gideon, you said that the federal government has a role to play within its own jurisdiction, just as the provinces and territories have their own responsibilities. Quebec has a law that allows the communication of archives and records concerning babies who never returned, the only law of its kind in Canada. A witness told us that, in the Northwest Territories, if I recall correctly, records were accessible only until 1967, and since then, have been accessible only in Ottawa. I imagine that, across all the jurisdictions, a large share of people turn to you. I also hope this support is available to the regions.
Along the same lines, although it’s not part of your expertise, how can we bring families or organizations, a province or territory and the federal government together around the same table to determine how to support families? It’s an approach I’ve seen elsewhere; families receive support to gain the tools, means and ability to tell the province, “I need the records.”
Ms. Gideon: Thank you. I think it’s very relevant. There’s also the matter of site protection to consider.
It’s a major priority for First Nations in Manitoba, for example, who are trying to work with the province in that respect. I think there are a lot of things happening, so it’s an excellent point.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
[English]
I send you lots of lights and spirit.
Senator McCallum: I wanted to go back to denialism because I’m actually concerned about the bill. I did speak to the MP. The reason is that we have a good example here in the Senate, where a former senator used one of the students to prop up her denialism. When I spoke to Ms. Gazan, I said, “How do you know that this denialism is not going to criminalize the residential school students that went and deny?” Because I was one of them. I said, “Oh, nothing happened to me” and then, as my life went on, I realized. There are still people who deny the church did anything wrong. The residential schools did nothing wrong. So, there’s that fight in the community.
How do you protect the ones who have been oppressed and actually been taught genocide within them? I have it. How are they going to be protected? It’s one of the recommendations here. How are you going to differentiate that? She said, “Well, that’s taken care of,” but I read the bill this morning, and there’s nothing in there that protects people.
Do you remember that guy said —
The Chair: Bill C-254?
Senator McCallum: That guy said that for every 7,000 bad stories, there are 7,000 good stories. Do you remember that? Do you know that I went to school with him? He’s from my reserve. That’s what Beyak used to prop up her remarks. I went to him and said that he needed to correct this.
My concern is what you are going to do with that, because it’s one of the recommendations.
Ms. Gideon: Obviously, that legislation is not legislation that’s being advanced by our department. What I take away from that, though, is that as we frame the rollout of funding for denialism — we’re seeing this as an Indigenous-led exercise — but I think as we structure that, it cannot be used against survivors. I take your point. It’s going to be hard.
Senator McCallum: It’s going to go underground — that denialism. It’s more dangerous underground. There will always be racism. When it’s up front, you can deal with it, but once it goes underground . . .
It was a young Black man who taught me that. I read his book. He asked why people were not surprised that Trump followed Obama. It is because they go side by side. They’re going to try and stop that movement. It will always be there, so we need to think about that. If it’s going to go underground, then you don’t know what is brewing. I just wanted to put that out there.
[Translation]
The Chair: Coming from a woman with so much experience, your comments mean a lot, so thank you from the bottom of my heart, Senator McCallum. I’m sending you a lot of energy. Of course, we’re little wolverines; in the animal story, it’s a mischievous but kind-hearted animal. This allows us to know truths, find answers, and work with you and future governments. However, right now, it’s Mr. Carney’s government, and I don’t hear as much about reconciliation as before. That concerns me. I understand that your mandates come from them, so please don’t take it personally if we sometimes express sincere but well-meaning emotion.
[English]
Thank you so much for coming here.
(The committee continued in camera.)