THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON VETERANS AFFAIRS
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Wednesday, May 29, 2024
The Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs met with videoconference this day at 12:02 p.m. [ET] to examine and report on issues relating to Veterans Affairs, including services and benefits provided, commemorative activities, and the continuing implementation of the Veterans Well-being Act.
Senator Rebecca Patterson (Chair) in the chair.
[English]
The Chair: Honourable senators, we are a small but mighty group that likes to look into veterans’ issues, and I declare this meeting in session. Welcome to this meeting of the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs.
Before I begin, I would like to ask all senators and other in-person participants to consult the cards on your desks in front of you. These are the guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents. Please take note of the following preventative measures in place for the protection of health and safety of all participants, including our interpreters in the booth behind me. If possible, ensure you’re seated in a manner that increases the distance between the microphones. Only use a black approved earpiece. Keep your earpiece away from the microphone at all times. I recommend you remove it when you’re speaking. When you’re not using your earpiece, there’s a small sticky on your desk where you can place the earpiece. I thank you for your cooperation.
I’m Senator Rebecca Patterson, senator for Ontario and Chair of the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs.
I’m joined today with the small but mighty group of my fellow honourable senators, and I’m going to welcome them to introduce themselves.
Please note that we may have another senator join us as we’re talking. Please do not let that break your stride, and we will carry on with our meeting.
Senator Richards: David Richards from New Brunswick.
Senator M. Deacon: Welcome. Marty Deacon from Ontario.
Senator McNair: Welcome. John McNair from New Brunswick.
The Chair: Thank you very much, senators. Before welcoming today’s witnesses, I’d like to provide content warning for this meeting, because we do have people watching us online.
Today, our subcommittee is studying veterans’ homelessness. Very sensitive subjects, including trauma related to military service, RCMP service, homelessness, and gender-based violence may be discussed. This may be triggering to some people in the room with us as well as those watching and listening to the broadcast. Mental health support for all Canadians is available by phone, and text at 988. If you are a veteran, you can call 1-800-268-7708 to speak to a mental health professional now or whenever you need it.
Senators and parliamentary employees are also reminded that the Senate’s Employee and Family Assistance Program is available to them and offers short-term counselling for both personal and work-related concerns, as well as crisis counselling.
I’d like to welcome to the subcommittee our witnesses for today. I would like to welcome from the RCMP Veterans’ Association, Mr. Mark Gaillard. I next welcome, from Veterans Emergency Transition Services, or VETS Canada, Ms. Debbie Lowther, Chief Executive Officer and Co-founder and military veteran herself. Next, I would like to introduce Lieutenant-Colonel (Retired) James Ostler from Respect Forum Canada. He is a director of national programs and will be giving the opening statement on behalf of the Respect Forum, and also Colonel (Retired) Gisèle Fontaine, the Women’s Outreach Coordinator.
Thank you for joining us today. We will begin by inviting you to provide your opening remarks, and then we will move towards the first round of questions and answers.
I’m going to go in the order I have it on the paper, so I will ask Ms. Debbie Lowther, who will deliver opening remarks on behalf of VETS Canada, to please proceed.
Debbie Lowther, Chief Executive Officer and Co-founder, Veterans Emergency Transition Services (VETS) Canada: Madam Chair and members of the committee, it is indeed my pleasure to appear before you today to discuss veterans’ homelessness. Thank you for the invitation. I’m the CEO and Co-founder of Veterans Emergency Transition Services. I’m the spouse of a veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces who served this country proudly for 15 years until his career was cut short due to injuries — both physical and psychological. He was diagnosed with PTSD in 2002 and was released from the CAF in 2005. Together we founded VETS Canada in Halifax in 2010.
VETS Canada is a national registered charity that is dedicated to providing immediate on-the-ground assistance to Canadian Armed Forces and RCMP veterans who are homeless, at risk of becoming homeless, or otherwise in crisis. We have hundreds of volunteers across the country, and we have had the privilege to provide support to thousands of veterans from coast to coast to coast. We operate 24/7, 365 days a year.
We recognize that every veteran’s situation is different; therefore, we tailor our support to meet the needs of each individual veteran. First and foremost, if the veteran isn’t already connected to Veterans Affairs Canada, we ensure that we get connected so we can be certain they’re receiving any benefits to which they may be entitled. Our staff and volunteers then work with the veteran to develop an individual support plan to help them achieve their goals and meet their needs.
Veterans come to us for support in a number of ways, including through our 24/7, 1-888 crisis line, website or social media platforms. Some veterans come from other organizations or agencies, however, the majority of our referrals, between 70 and 85%, come from VAC case managers.
In 2014, we were awarded a contract with VAC, making us national service providers to the department in the field of veterans’ homelessness outreach. In 2018, the government chose to end that contract, instructing us to apply for further funding through the newly announced Veteran and Family Well-being Fund. Since 2018, we’ve received funding through that fund, but it’s interesting to note that the amount of funding we receive is not sufficient to cover the number of referrals made to us by the department.
In 2022, VAC was seeking to gain insight into the extent and nature of veterans’ homelessness to ensure supports were being dedicated to the veterans who needed them. To achieve this, they determined that they required an expert with a national veteran peer network and existing infrastructure in working with veterans experiencing homelessness to conduct data collection and outreach in both official languages, in all provinces, including northern Canada. They chose VETS Canada to conduct this work.
At the end of the project, we were able to report that we had connected with 2,330 veterans; 406 were women; 139 self-identified as Indigenous; and 65 self-identified as 2SLGBTQAI+.
In preparation for my appearance here today, I took the time to watch the previous sessions focused on veterans’ homelessness, and I would like to address what I saw and share our experience so far in the negotiation process with Infrastructure Canada for the Veteran Homelessness Program.
As you know, between Budget 2021 and Budget 2022, approximately $107 million was allocated in support of veterans’ homelessness. In April 2023, a call for proposals was issued with $72.9 million available for rent supplements and wraparound supports, and $6.2 million available for capacity building.
Under the rent supplements and wraparound supports stream, organizations could apply for up to $6.5 million over five years, which is what we did. Applications were accepted until June 23, 2023. Finally, in January 2024, we received an email stating that our application had been approved and that someone would be in touch to begin negotiations of the project details and budget. To say that the negotiation process has been prolonged, difficult and frustrating would be the understatement of the century.
First, we were advised that even though we are a national organization, we would only be tasked with supporting veterans from Ontario east. As this seemed unusual, we asked questions. The response we received from an Infrastructure staff person was if we didn’t like it, we didn’t have to accept the money, and things have gone downhill from there. In March 2024, we were advised that since they had taken so long to get things in place and the whole first year of the funding was already ending, the funding would now be $5.2 million over four years, rather than the original $6.5 million over five years, so we lose a full year of funding.
Since being told that our application had been approved, we have had no fewer than five meetings with Infrastructure Canada staff, and we’ve been asked to provide more and more and more information at the end of every meeting. But on the flip side of that, Infrastructure is not reciprocating in the sharing of information that you would normally expect in a negotiation. For example, at one point, it was stated while VETS Canada does great work, we might not meet the terms and conditions of the project. When we asked if we could review the terms and conditions, we were told that it was an internal document and could not be shared.
During the meeting of this subcommittee on April 17, a senior ADM from Infrastructure stated that one of the reasons they’re taking so long to get this program rolled out is because they’re dealing with a number of veteran-serving organizations that don’t have experience with homelessness, and those organizations may need extra support. VETS Canada’s sole mission from day one in 2010 has been veterans’ homelessness. So if it’s taking this long to get an agreement in place with us, we can only imagine how long it will take for the organizations without experience in the homelessness field.
In closing, I would like to state on the record that while we are truly grateful to have our application approved for the Veteran Homelessness Program, we’re deeply concerned about possible repercussions from Infrastructure Canada in light of our criticism here today of the negotiating process.
With that, I’m ready to take your questions. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much for your comments.
Senator Richards: I apologize for that .
The Chair: Next, we will go to Lieutenant-Colonel (Retired) James Ostler for your opening comments. Please proceed.
Lieutenant-Colonel (Ret’d) James Ostler, Director, National Programs Respect Forum Canada: Good afternoon, senators. I am James Ostler, with the Respect Forum. With me today is Gisèle Fontaine. Thank you very much for this opportunity.
At the Respect Forum, our mission is to create a network among organizations that support CAF and RCMP veterans, emergency responders and their families in meeting the array of challenges such as transition, mental health and housing instability by promoting collaboration that improves the delivery of services, and we accomplish this mission by managing five lines of operation. I’ll stress three of them here today, and we’ve submitted all of our notes to you.
Our main activity is forums and special meetings in more than 20 towns and cities across Canada in the spring and fall of every year. These forums promote information sharing and collaboration amongst the different organizations.
We have our Indigenous Advisory Circle. This builds and improves relations and services to First Nations, Métis and Inuit veterans and first responders, their families and communities.
Our fifth line of operations is Women’s Outreach, which connects providers that support women veterans and first responders, and recognizes the intersectionality of being a woman, including 2SLBTQIA+, race, Indigenous and disability.
Veterans’ homelessness is a recurring issue we hear and learn about at all of our Respect Forum meetings held across the country. Organizations such as Homes for Heroes, Veterans’ House Canada, the Good Shepherd Ministries in Toronto, and the Centre of Clinical Excellence at the Legion Veterans Village in Surrey, B.C. are making a positive impact by providing housing for veterans. These are different housing models that provide excellent supported housing solutions, and these four organizations are all part of the Respect Forum collaborative network.
These organizations and the service they provide are in addition to the city and municipally run programs providing supported housing to the homeless across the country, but it’s often difficult to determine how many homeless veterans there are because of identification challenges.
However, these models do not necessarily meet the needs of women veterans. Veterans’ homelessness is a complex problem and needs to be approached with different supports and different strategies.
Women’s Outreach connects the service providers across the country that support women veterans and their unique needs, and homelessness is a frequent topic of discussion. It is evident that assisting women veterans experiencing homelessness is a significant challenge as they are even more difficult to find than are the men. Furthermore, they will not be drawn to congregate accommodations with large numbers of men as they may not feel safe, especially if they experienced harmful conduct during their service. These environments often replicate the conditions where they were harmed.
Gender-responsive housing solutions must be developed for women veterans with wraparound services to prevent and address homelessness.
Indigenous homelessness is often complicated by geography and the isolation of communities in the Far North.
Finally — and this is something new for us — a national registry of available supported housing resources for veterans would be a positive step towards quantifying the infrastructure part of the solution.
That’s my opening statement. Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Ostler.
We will now go to Mark Gaillard.
Mark Gaillard, Program Coordinator, RCMP Veteran Homelessness Program, RCMP Veterans’ Association: Madam Chair and honourable senators, my name is Mark Gaillard. I am a veteran of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and of the Canadian Armed Forces. I have recently been appointed by the board of directors of the RCMP Veterans’ Association to be the program coordinator for the new RCMP Veteran Homelessness Program.
Although the association has been in existence since 1886, it was first incorporated under the Canada Corporations Act a century ago in 1924. A decade ago, in 2014, the association was granted its Articles of Continuance under the Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act.
Today, the association has over 7,000 members across Canada, organized in 30 chapters, which we call divisions. This number compares with the roughly 24,000 RCMP veterans across Canada in the broader RCMP veterans’ community.
Delivered by volunteers, the association has a very active Support and Advocacy program, which aids our members and their immediate families. The association also provides administrative services on behalf of the RCMP for eligible beneficiaries under the force’s Benefit Trust Fund, as well as regular grave inspection and upkeep services for the force.
Although not defined as veterans in the legislation of Veterans Affairs Canada, the RCMP has partnered with Veterans Affairs Canada for more than 60 years to help retired, regular and civilian members and their families. This is by virtue of Part II of the RCMP Superannuation Act, which stipulates that any serving or former member who is permanently disabled due to a service-related injury or illness is eligible for a disability pension under the Pension Act.
Honourable senators, you may be surprised to learn that as the numbers of Second World War and Korean War veterans, as well as the pre-New Veterans Charter veterans decline over time, the RCMP veterans and their survivors will be the only growing cohort still under the Pension Act.
In 2015, we had a death of a homeless RCMP veteran. He died alone in a Manitoba winter while living in his car after being evicted. The association assisted the family financially with funeral and other arrangements, and ensured that our veteran was given a dignified burial in the RCMP cemetery in Regina. It was very much regretted that we were unaware of his situation until after he had died. Since then, the association has assisted two other RCMP veterans from becoming homeless and a surviving spouse who required financial assistance to avoid the loss of her home.
As many RCMP veterans, whether retired or having short service, do not consider themselves to be veterans, there is an immediate need to develop awareness, communications strategies and programs to ensure that the broader RCMP veteran community is informed of the assistance and support available to those at risk of becoming homeless. The first mission of the RCMP Veteran Homelessness Program will be to spread the word that help is available.
I might add here that the Government of Canada’s Veterans Homelessness strategy is geared towards helping living veterans. In the past, we have found that in the case of RCMP veterans, it is the surviving spouse who is most at risk of becoming homeless. As we embark on this new program, we will need to consider how we can best help those surviving spouses.
In sum, integrated into our existing Support and Advocacy program, the RCMP Veteran Homelessness Program will conduct initial research and survey work to identify the RCMP veterans’ community at-risk profile for homelessness. With these results, and with the Government of Canada Infrastructure Canada funding, the RCMP Veteran Homelessness Program will develop guidelines and training, and the program will begin delivering assistance and services to prevent homelessness in the broader RCMP veteran community.
Our program will not require an RCMP veteran to be a member of our association, but there may well be eligibility requirements for financial support. We need to be sure we help those in need before it is too late.
Thank you very much.
The Chair: Thank you very much. Now we’re going to proceed to our first round of questions.
Thank you very much for all your statements. They are very compelling. Veterans, RCMP or former Canadian Armed Forces who are experiencing housing insecurity and homelessness is one of the key areas we’re looking to study. You’ve given a lot of food for thought, things that have gone slightly right and significant challenges. I look forward to our round of questions.
Before I start, I’ll just pass an introduction here.
Senator Varone: Toni Varone from Ontario.
The Chair: For the first round of questions, we’ll go for four minutes, and that includes your questions and the response from the witnesses. If you’re able to direct it at a specific witness, that would be appreciated.
To our witnesses, please know we realize you all have valid responses. If you wish to add and we have time left, we’ll pass the floor to you.
Senator Richards: I do have a question. We were studying the effects of PTSD and trauma on veterans from the military and from the RCMP last year. I think all this fits into the question of homelessness and alienation.
Why is this still in the shadows? I’m not talking about the panel. I know they’re quite aware of it, but so many Canadians just don’t seem to understand or know the volume of military personnel who are having desperate problems in our country. I’m wondering too if this is part of the malaise in the entire military. Are these in any way connected?
There is a 50% higher rate of male suicides among veterans and 250% higher suicides among female veterans. All this in some way must tie into the problem of homelessness and drug abuse. So many Canadians are unaware of this, and I’m wondering if you have the same kind of feeling that so many Canadians are unaware of this problem. Anyone can answer, really.
Ms. Lowther: In our experience, the general public hears little snippets from the media. When the New Veterans Charter came about in 2006, we switched over from the Pension Act where veterans would receive monthly pension payments for the rest of their life. The New Veterans Charter deals more in lump sum payments. At that time, I think the maximum lump sum amount was $280,000. Now it’s a little over $400,000. I’m not 100% sure of the numbers, but that depends on the extent of the injury.
The general public hears $450,000, they think that’s great. They are out of the military, they are injured. They are getting $450,000, but that’s not the case. To get that full amount, you have to be a triple amputee or worse, lose your life in service. That’s part of it. The general public hears little snippets in the media, and they aren’t aware.
We try our best to educate the general public on the issue of veterans’ homelessness, and we are surprised how many people say, “Why is it that we don’t know about you?” And I don’t really have the answer to that, but I think a little bit is that the media doesn’t cover it as much.
Mr. Gaillard: The veterans pension system was set up to help with those who were wounded in war and often had medical conditions as a result of their service. In the recent decades and years, the proportion of mental health injuries, PTSD, operational stress injuries, et cetera, has expanded exponentially and has overtaken the kind of medical, musculoskeletal, broken bones, war wounds kinds of activities as opposed to the kind of non-medical care that mental health requires.
The Chair: Thank you.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you all for being here. Each one of your opening statements were very interesting. Obviously, it is a collective concern and interest, but your paths have been a little bit unique getting there.
I’m going to ask a question right off the bat. All of your departments and organizations work closely with Veterans Affairs Canada in some way, somehow in some capacity. From your assessment from where you stand or sit, how equipped are they to deal with homeless veterans? It’s not a question of people working very hard and the dedication of individual workers. What I’m trying to understand is when we need a new approach to how we approach the issue of homelessness at the federal level, which to me seems very disjointed — and I’m saying that with great respect of something just beginning and that sounds really promising. I do want to get your feedback on the organizational piece that allows people to do their jobs in a timely way.
LCol. Ostler: In our preparation for today, we talked to Mr. Bob Thibeau , the leader of our Indigenous Advisory Circle. I spoke to him last night and he sent me notes. His response about the VAC responsiveness to individual cases was very positive.
The circle is all Indigenous peoples, 15 across the country. When they have found and located an Indigenous homeless veteran and reported it to VAC in that province, his report to me was that VAC was very responsive and things were done quickly to help out that individual to the amount they wanted help with. So that is positive for VAC for that area.
Senator M. Deacon: Anybody else?
Ms. Lowther: Since 2010, we’ve seen a lot of improvement with VAC. I think there’s still more that can be done.
One of the biggest challenges we see with Veterans Affairs is the inconsistency. One veteran could go to Veterans Affairs and get every service possible, and then another veteran with similar needs could not even be told what they are entitled to.
I have said for a long time that it would be helpful if case managers had a standardized checklist whereby they can ensure that if a veteran is contacting them for the first time, they are educating that veteran on everything they are entitled to.
When it comes to homeless veterans, again, that has improved a lot. Veterans Affairs has implemented the Veterans Emergency Fund, which has been good when it works. We see issues with that fund, but the fact that it has been implemented is a positive step.
In instances where a veteran identifies as homeless, Veterans Affairs puts an indicator on their file so their applications can be “red zoned” so that things move faster. Overall, things have improved, but there are still improvements to be made.
Senator M. Deacon: Did you mention earlier that, in fact, RCMP veterans are a bit reluctant to see themselves as needing support in terms of homelessness and don’t see themselves as vets? I wanted to clarify an earlier comment you made.
Mr. Gaillard: Yes, indeed. Veterans Affairs Canada, veterans licence plates or support for veterans is all geared towards Canadian Armed Forces service, and RCMP members don’t automatically see themselves as being veterans.
There is an arrangement between the RCMP and Veterans Affairs Canada where Veterans Affairs Canada, on behalf of the RCMP, adjudicates and administers the programs that are available to RCMP veterans. There is a statutory transfer of funding to them. There is a limit to the kinds of services that are available to RCMP veterans because we’re still under the Pension Act. Veterans Affairs Canada recently opened an office in Montreal that is dedicated to RCMP case management.
Senator McNair: Thank you to the panellists for being here today. Thank you for your service and your continued service to veterans in Canada.
There are difficult conversations around some of these issues. In 2018, I think you are aware that the president of the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness told the Subcommittee of Veterans Affairs that, with a focused effort, homelessness could be eliminated within three years or less. We know that hasn’t happened. One of the things we’re struggling with is to get an idea of the scope and scale of what we are talking about.
In 2019, the Subcommittee on Veterans Affairs produced a report. At that time, they estimated that there were between 3,000 and 5,000 homeless veterans in Canada, with female and Indigenous veterans overrepresented.
We have heard different figures put forward by the departmental officials. I am curious to know what your guesstimate is, and I understand that it is a guesstimate. My view is that that number is very inadequate or much lower than it actually is.
Colonel (Ret’d) Gisèle Fontaine, Women’s Outreach Coordinator, Respect Forum Canada: Good day. I want to take the opportunity to thank the honourable senators for inviting us today.
It is difficult to know this number. I don’t think anyone can estimate that appropriately. If we speak about women veterans, they are difficult to find. They are practically invisible because of their circumstances. They are not all found on the streets or in homeless shelters, for example. They are couch surfing, they use Airbnb if they can afford it temporarily, or they live in their vehicles. The women’s shelters do not automatically ask questions about whether they are veterans or if they have ever served.
As was already mentioned, many women do not consider themselves to be veterans, because the definition of “veteran” has changed over time. They may have served for short periods of time or were not deployed, so, in their minds, they are not necessarily veterans. They may not want to admit they are veterans because they may feel ashamed of their situation. They may feel like they have failed, which is contrary to the soldier ethos. They may not self-identify. They also do not want to misrepresent veterans in that way.
There is a lack of consistency with shelter intake staff, as I mentioned, in asking about their veteran status. There has to be a trusting relationship developed between them to admit that they are veterans.
There are a growing number of younger veterans who medically release following deployment. These veterans differ from the stereotype of homeless veterans that we may see and know — another reason why they are not necessarily going to be asked about their veteran status.
Homelessness is a traumatic and dehumanizing experience. Some have to focus on just navigating the threats and dangers, and looking for their next meal or shelter. They do not have the capacity, energy or means to try to connect with veteran organizations for assistance. If the process is too complicated — and the fact that they don’t have a fixed address and they may not be online — they will get discouraged and then they are lost in the homeless system once again. That certainly complicates matters.
Senator Varone: Thank you. Again, I apologize for missing your opening comments, but I did read all of the material.
I have the same question that I developed during the last meeting. My definition of “shelter” is something temporary as opposed to something that is permanent in nature for the veterans to establish roots in a community.
I read the report from Respect Forum Canada in terms of trying to get all of these organizations to talk to one another. Do you see any validity in an initiative that would create a national veterans housing authority that could go coast to coast in appropriate communities where the veterans are and to create, first and foremost, a shelter, and then build on that shelter in terms of other items needed, whether it be mental health or women veterans? It doesn’t have to be the same modality of shelter. It could be group homes in key locations and partnering with other Canadian organizations that could deliver that. We keep going round and round in circles with respect to the issue, but I think that everything starts with a roof over your head.
LCol. Ostler: Senator, your idea has good merit. I do not know if we need a national housing authority for that. A first step would be to have a national registry of the different organizations and amount of stock or rooms that are available across the country.
Senator Varone: And that does not exist?
LCol. Ostler: To my knowledge, there is no national registry.
Small and not-so-small organizations are on fire across the country now, such as Homes For Heroes Foundation and Veterans’ House Canada. They are non-governmental, although they get a lot of funding from the government. That is a good approach because they are, perhaps, less bureaucratic, and they are building houses across the country. There are two models too. It is very interesting and they are very different. Homes for Heroes is transitionary housing. They say it is a hand up, not a handout. You are supposed to be in there from 3 to 20 months and then back into society.
The Veterans’ House Canada model is different. In Ottawa you have the Andy Carswell Building. That is permanent housing for a veteran, he or she. It is a nice apartment building, all closed in. When they live there, they can live there forever or as long as they want. It is a regular apartment building with wraparound supports in there. Both organizations are wonderful, great and expanding across the country, and they are good solutions for that. ‘There is competition for funding across the country. They are doing the business on the ground.
The Chair: I will take the chair’s prerogative now and ask a question of you as well.
I am going to get into some of the questions on the intersection of identity, which you have already brought up nicely. Regardless of your gender, it is everything else that may create extra risk for living rough, transient housing and homelessness.
I will start with Ms. Fontaine to ask a bit about coordinating services. I have already heard, as part of the opening speech, wraparound housing that includes. Can you tell us what you are seeing in the different organizations you are with that are trying to come up with actual solutions for homelessness?
Then I would request that Ms. Lowther comment as well, since you are at the coalface, especially when we look at women and women with other intersections of identity, what you are actually seeing in terms of people who have been subjected to domestic violence, interpersonal violence and abuse. We know that in the Canadian Armed Forces, or CAF, we tend to have service couples in there.
Col. Fontaine: Thank you for your question.
Certainly, intersectionality is a notion that has recently evolved, and to recognize the different backgrounds of a woman’s experience, either when she was in the forces or as a veteran now; their lived experience is definitely going to be different based on that.
It is also the fact that the services they need and the services they actually want to access will be different. It is something new we are just getting on board with. We still have a lot to learn and need to make those connections with those groups.
Within Respect Forum Canada there isn’t an actual committee or forum on just homelessness. When we gather in groups, the subject of homelessness will come up, but we speak about a variety of different issues.
I want to take the opportunity to mention the fact that there is a collaborative project that has been initiated in Montreal and if there is interest and time, I can certainly speak more about that.
The Chair: Ms. Lowther, please proceed. If there is time, I will ask for the RCMP perspective on that as well.
Ms. Lowther: We know that in the Canadian Armed Forces, it is about 16% of women who serve in the Canadian Armed Forces. Our numbers are higher than that. In our caseload, just over 20% of the veterans that we have provided support to are women. They do overrepresent in that regard. For us, we look at every veteran’s situation on a case-by-case basis and develop a plan to help based on their specific needs.
We know that women deal with all of the same things as their male counterparts, but then they also deal with a little bit more. In fact, more than 90% of the female veterans who have come to us have disclosed military sexual trauma. Many of them are fleeing domestic violence situations. They have children in tow. As was mentioned earlier, they are less likely to use shelter systems. They are more likely to stay with family or friends, or even in their vehicle.
We had a veteran recently, actually, who was living in her van with three children. It is more complicated.
The Chair: Thank you very much. About 30 seconds for the RCMP perspective.
Mr. Gaillard: Yes, the main concern with respect to our RCMP veterans is that because many of them are aging and they don’t have programs such as the Veterans Independence Program, or VIP, to help them stay in their homes. These programs are not available to RCMP because they fall outside of the Veterans Health Care Regulations.
Even though under the Pension Act there is a survivor benefit, we still find that it is the spouse — whether the veteran is still alive or has passed — who is the one struggling with the precariousness of their housing situation. When we are looking at the Infrastructure Canada program, we are looking at subsidies or assistance to be able to meet the rent requirements and the housing requirements so we can keep the spouses in their homes with their families, and not become at risk of homelessness because of inability to pay rent or to meet expenses.
The Chair: We will go for another nine minutes. I say that because we do need to have a short in camera session.
Senator Richards: Thank you to the witnesses for being here. I appreciate this. This is a real problem, and in some ways it is like herding cats. I do not mean to be frivolous about this at all, but that is what it seems like. Perhaps it is because when a veteran retires, the military seems less obligated to be interested in their welfare than if they are in a standardized division or a company or a regiment.
I wonder if that is a problem, because individuals that I know — two of them — have been committed to helping to establish their own programs because they did not get help elsewhere. So it is on an individual basis, and they are heroic in doing this. But that is not the greatest thing in the world, with the Canadian government that does not seem to be wanting to back you.
I think it was Ms. Lowther who mentioned standardized procedure. That might be a part of the problem. I am just throwing this out, if you can answer some of this.
Could it also be because that, as far as the health of these veterans is concerned, the health care is up to the provincial government and not up to the federal government?
Ms. Lowther: I would say, yes, it is a challenge when members are released and they move back to their home provinces. First of all, finding a family doctor is a huge challenge for everybody, veterans included. It is a big issue.
We have had the conversation many times with Veterans Affairs Canada, or VAC, and the CAF about providing that health care post-release until a veteran does get a family doctor, because we are releasing these members who are injured and ill. Their only source of health care are emergency rooms or walk-in clinics, who will not prescribe a lot of the medications that veterans are having to take. That could be a solution, to provide that health care post-release. It would help a little bit, I think.
LCol. Ostler: Senator, if I may, the way I see it, a lot of people spent 20, 30, almost 40 years in maybe the army, the navy or the air force, and it took care of them. They never had to make a doctor’s appointment in their whole career, the whole works. Then when they retire, some of them think, “I’m now a soldier of VAC, and VAC will take care of me,” but they are not a sailor or soldier of VAC. That is not the VAC role. They belong to Kingston, Ontario, or Hamilton, and those city health services play a major role in all of those things.
It is a complex web to get health care and medical care in the civilian world. That is a mindset thing we have to deal with. It leads to a lot of bad feelings towards VAC, because some veterans feel like, “Well, I’m not being taken care of like I used to be.” But that is just not going to happen.
Senator Richards: But, sir, if they have a tremendous problem with PTSD and are taking opioids and self-medicating, then I do not know if a family doctor will be able to help them. That is a part of the problem too; isn’t it, sir?
LCol. Ostler: But the family doctor is the first step in the civilian medical care field. They have to get a family doctor, however that happens.
The Chair: Thank you very much. Given the time, I will ask for the remaining three questions to be put on the table. Then, if you do not have time to reply to a specific thing, we would welcome a written submission.
Senator M. Deacon: I would like to come back to the Montreal collaborative project you spoke about. I’m trying to differentiate bureaucracy, leadership and what is happening on the ground. I would like more information on that.
Senator McNair: I wanted to clarify something. Ms. Lowther, I heard the frustration in your voice over some of these issues. To lose $1.3 million through someone else’s delay does not make sense from my perspective. To clarify, who were you dealing with? Was it Infrastructure or VAC — so it’s Infrastructure Canada. Did you ever get a response as to why Ontario-east only, when you asked that question?
Senator Varone: The briefing notes told me that there are 8,200 members of the Armed Forces who transition from military to civilian life annually and need very little assistance. However, a survey report that was conducted from 1998 to 2018 stated that 39% required assistance. That is a huge gap in between. Do you have any insight as to why that happened, and where the problem was?
The Chair: I will ask the last question. There have been, as we have heard, housing solutions and shelter solutions already proposed. I am interested to get your impression on the efficacy of those solutions, how we could do better, more of the same, do differently, and what your recommendations are moving forward. I recognize that may be a written response.
I will pass it back to you. We have about three minutes, so if you could give a 30-second précis. Please go ahead.
Mr. Gaillard: Since many questions were directed more to the Canadian Armed Forces’ situation, I will give my time to them.
The Chair: Thank you. Ms. Lowther, please continue.
Ms. Lowther: For your question dealing with Infrastructure, the process has been difficult and the response we received for why Ontario-east was that there are two national organizations that have received funding, so they have split the country up amongst the national organizations, and the rest of the organizations are regional organizations. But the two national organizations will do Ontario-east, Ontario-west and then fill in gaps as needed. That was the response we were given to that question.
The Chair: Thank you.
Ms. Lowther: Regarding the efficacy of housing, I would say it is individualized. As we discussed earlier, some housing is transitional, some is long-term. It depends on the veteran’s individual needs.
LCol. Ostler: Talking about the efficacy of the housing, the Homes for Heroes in Kingston, Ontario, has 20 units. They finished it in January of this year. In early February, they housed their first veteran. I am going to the official opening next week on June 4. I do not know how many of the 20 units are full now. I will find out next week, and I can email someone if they would like to find out how it is filling up.
The Chair: Thank you.
Col. Fontaine: The project out of Montreal was as a result of discussions at a Respect women’s forum. There were four organizations that decided to come together to work on a special project to map out all of the services in the region of Montreal that women veterans can access. The goals are to identify all of those services; gaps in services; helping providers adapt their services to better meet women veterans’ needs; as well as making sure that at intake the question is asked about their veteran status.
That project is just getting started, but the group is motivated. It is an example of the type of collaborative projects that can be generated after grouping these organizations together under Respect Forum.
The Chair: Thank you for your responses.
We are sorry. It is a fast hour. However, as I have said, we always welcome any written submissions that you have on any of these topics because you are at the coalface of where this is happening.
On behalf of all my colleagues here, I would like to thank you so much for all you do for veterans who are experiencing probably the worst things in their lives. Thank you for all that you do.
To my colleagues, I would like to suggest that if you have the time, we go in camera. We need to discuss where we move forward from here as we move into the summer session. With your approval, we will move into in camera.
(The committee continued in camera.)