THE STANDING SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE
EVIDENCE
OTTAWA, Thursday, October 30, 2025
The Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade met with videoconference this day at 10:30 a.m. [ET] to examine and report on Canada’s interests and engagement in Africa.
Senator Peter M. Boehm (Chair) in the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair: My name is Peter Boehm, and I am the chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.
[English]
I wish to invite committee members participating in today’s meeting to introduce themselves.
Senator Adler: Charles Adler, Manitoba.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Amina Gerba from Quebec.
[English]
Senator MacDonald: Michael MacDonald, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Senator Ravalia: Good morning and welcome. Mohamed Ravalia, Newfoundland and Labrador.
Senator Ataullahjan: Good morning and welcome. Salma Ataullahjan, Ontario.
Senator Wilson: Good morning. Duncan Wilson, British Columbia.
Senator Coyle: Welcome. Mary Coyle, Antigonish, Nova Scotia.
Senator Al Zaibak: Mohammad Al Zaibak, Ontario.
Senator M. Deacon: Hello. Marty Deacon, Ontario.
[Translation]
The Chair: I wish to welcome all of you as well as people across Canada who may be watching on ParlVU.
[English]
Colleagues, today we are meeting to conclude our study on Canada’s interest and engagement in Africa, which we began in the previous Parliament.
Today for our first panel, from Global Affairs Canada, we are pleased to welcome Cheryl Urban, Assistant Deputy Minister, Africa Branch; Andrew Smith, Director General, Pan-African Affairs Bureau; Ryan Clark, Director General, Central, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau; and Susan Steffen, Director General, West Africa and Maghreb Bureau.
Welcome to you all. You’ve been here a few times before as we looked at Africa in the last Parliament. Thank you again for bringing your expertise to our table.
Before we hear Ms. Urban’s opening statement and proceed to questions and answers, I would ask everyone to please mute notifications on devices. This was a bit of an issue yesterday, and it causes technical problems for both the technical staff and our interpreters. As per usual, follow the guidelines on earpieces and where to place them. There is a card on best practices to prevent feedback and problems of that kind.
Ms. Urban, we’re ready to hear your opening remarks. As per usual, this will be followed by questions from senators. We also have, in listening mode, two ambassadors in the field who will be panellists on the second panel.
Ms. Urban, the floor is yours.
[Translation]
Cheryl Urban, Assistant Deputy Minister, Africa Branch, Global Affairs Canada: Mr. Chair, honourable senators, as assistant deputy minister, Africa Branch, at Global Affairs Canada, I am pleased to address you this morning regarding Canada’s engagement in Africa and the progress that has been made in implementing Canada’s Africa Strategy since it was launched in March.
[English]
Much has changed since the strategies publication, particularly the rise in global economic turbulence and widening geopolitical fault lines. In response to this, the Government of Canada is focusing its international engagement on strengthening collaboration with reliable trading partners and protecting Canadian sovereignty.
A key outcome of these efforts will be more diversified trading relationships and stronger economic partnerships with countries around the world.
[Translation]
Canada’s Africa Strategy is integral to these priorities and is well positioned to advance them. It aims to strengthen Canada’s engagement with Africa toward greater economic cooperation, strengthened peace and security partnerships, enhanced engagement of African diaspora communities in Canada, and international assistance to reduce poverty that also supports economic development and youth employment.
Canada’s Africa Strategy recognizes the continent as a region of opportunities in achieving Canada’s international priorities, one that is home to some of the most dynamic economies, a growing middle class and a young population able to stimulate innovation and entrepreneurship.
[English]
In implementing the strategy, we are moving forward on several fronts. The creation of two special envoys has enhanced our presence and interactions with key decision makers.
Special Envoy for Africa Ben Marc Diendéré and Special Envoy for the Sahel Marcel Lebleu will join you later to speak directly about their roles and the work they have been doing over the past several months.
To deepen our diplomatic and trade presence in Africa, we are establishing a high commission in Zambia and an embassy in Benin.
We stood up the Africa Trade Hub, which coordinates Canada’s economic diplomacy and trade and investment engagement across Africa. The hub has been instrumental in coordinating with Canada’s missions in Africa to support Canada’s private sector on the continent and trade policy priorities, such as ongoing Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement negotiations with Zambia and Tanzania.
Recognizing the need to shift from traditional aid relationships towards deeper economic partnerships, we have launched a new Africa Trade and Development Program. A concrete example of this work is the Development Trade Marketplace — organized by the High Commission of Canada in Kenya — which has been taking place this week in Ottawa and which helps link development partners and Canadian private sector companies looking to do business in African and other developing country markets.
Trade and development investments build on Canada’s long-standing support of the African Continental Free Trade Area, which has involved the Africa Trade Policy Centre at the UN Economic Commission for Africa, and Canadian partners such as the Trade Facilitation Office Canada and a consortium led by Carleton University’s Centre for Trade Policy and Law, providing technical and strategic expertise for implementation of the African Continental Free Trade Area.
Meanwhile, we have continued to invest in poverty reduction. Empowering marginalized groups unlocks the potential of entire communities. Transparent institutions foster trust and stability, and social cohesion enables economic activity to thrive.
We have continued to strengthen collaboration with the African Union Commission, Africa’s principal multilateral body. Since the signing of the Canada-African Union Commission memorandum of understanding at the second high-level dialogue that took place last November, Canadian and African Union — or AU — officials have been working together to advance work in three priority areas: peace and security; trade and economic development; and development cooperation and diaspora engagement. A third high-level dialogue is next scheduled to take place in fall 2026.
Engagement with Canada’s African diaspora has increased, particularly to support economic partnerships and trade diversification efforts. Since early 2025, the Africa Branch has participated in more than 20 diaspora-led initiatives in Canada, including within our mission network.
In June, for example, Canada’s High Commission of Canada in Ghana cohosted the Ghana Diaspora Investment Forum alongside financial institutions and the Ghanaian government.
We have also been working closely with South Africa, with frequent interactions at high levels over the past year as part of our respective G7 and G20 presidencies. This has provided opportunities to further strengthen this critical relationship both in support of advancing our shared bilateral interests and our respective summits at Kananaskis and the upcoming summit in Johannesburg.
Finally, it is important to remember that African voices are essential to building multilateral systems that work for all.
Canada actively supported the African Union in joining the G20 table. Canada invited South Africa to the G7 Summit and has worked with South Africa in support of its G20 presidency. Together, we are pursuing shared priorities, including critical minerals, disaster risk reduction and artificial intelligence.
[Translation]
As you can see, we are working with a renewed focus on shared prosperity and security, while at the same time deepening our partnerships with key and emerging African partners.
In its implementation, Canada’s Africa Strategy will continue to adapt to changes in the global context and to national priorities.
Through geopolitical tensions and instability, guided by Canada’s Africa Strategy, Canada is engaged as a reliable partner in a relationship based on equality, for our mutual benefit.
Thank you.
The Chair: I would like to remind senators that they have a maximum of three minutes each for the first round, including questions and answers.
[English]
Therefore, to members of the committee, as per usual, you know what I’m going to say, but I’ll say it again: Keep your questions concise, please, so that we might extract the most in the way of response from our witnesses.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: Welcome to all our witnesses; it is always a pleasure to see you again at this committee.
My question is for Deputy Minister Urban. You mentioned the launch of Canada’s Africa Strategy in March. I was there, and I also thank you for the invitation. This is an initiative I was glad to see, as were many people, particularly in the African diaspora, which represents almost a million people here in Canada.
Several months later, the process is moving along, but it has not yet been effectively implemented. In addition, in his economic address on October 22, Prime Minister Carney cited a number of priority markets for diversifying Canadian trade, but failed to mention Africa.
My question is threefold. Have you had a chance to present this strategy to the Prime Minister? If so, based on your discussions, do you feel that the African market is truly seen as a priority for the government? You also spoke about implementation. Is something provided for this strategy in the upcoming budget? Thank you.
Ms. Urban: Thank you for the question, senator.
[English]
I will be brief. In terms of whether this strategy was presented to the Prime Minister, I did not do that personally. This may have been discussed at political levels, but it’s not something that I was involved with. I don’t have personal experience with it.
In terms of your other question, the Africa Strategy is understood to be aligned with the direction that this government is taking, which is focused on Canadian economic prosperity and protecting Canadian sovereignty, in the sense that the strategy itself is focused on developing mutually beneficial partnerships and on undertaking more economic cooperation.
At present, indeed, the Government of Canada talks about priority markets and talks about Europe in the Indo-Pacific. We have very ambitious trade diversification targets that the Prime Minister has set, and those are regions where we have Canadian companies present and can establish those goals, but that does not exclude doing more economic cooperation with the African continent. The Africa Strategy and its implementation is understood to be a way in which we can complement that working in markets that can also bring prosperity to Canada, including over the medium term.
The Chair: Sorry, I have to interrupt you. We’ve gone over time.
Senator Ataullahjan: Thank you for appearing before us this morning. I want to talk a bit about the role Canada has played in peacekeeping. We are credited with starting and developing the concept of large-scale armed peacekeeping with the UN. We were doing it until the 1990s. We were very involved. Since then, we have scaled down.
I had a visit from someone yesterday from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, or DRC, who was almost begging me to ask Canada to do more in peacekeeping. Regarding the new strategy that you have, is peacekeeping going to be a part of that, too?
Ms. Urban: Thank you very much for the question. Certainly, in terms of the Africa Strategy, one important element is economic cooperation, but another is doubling down on our peace and security partnerships on the continent. However, increasingly, we are working with organizations like the African Union to support African leadership on peacekeeping operations. We also know that the landscape of peacekeeping on the continent is continually evolving.
I will turn to one of my colleagues to drill down further. I will turn to Ryan.
Ryan Clark, Director General, Central, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: Canada maintains a presence in the peacekeeping mission in the Great Lakes region in the Congo and Rwanda. It’s called MONUSCO. We have six Canadian Armed Forces officers and six police officers currently deployed in North Kivu in the Great Lakes region. In fiscal year 2025-26, our contribution to these efforts amounted to approximately US$21 million, or CAD$29 million, so we continue to support that mission.
We are also watching and quite closely engaging with our like-mindeds on renewed peace efforts in the Great Lakes region. The United States has been working very closely with the governments of the DRC and Rwanda to try to create an economic incentivization package, if you will, to incentivize advancement of peace discussions that are happening in parallel in Doha. So this is something we watch closely, and we are trying to identify specific areas where Canada can provide support to try to stabilize the situation and ensure a lasting peace.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you to our witnesses. It is a pleasure to have you here, and thank you for all that you are doing for our country.
Given the massive funding loss caused by the dismantling of USAID and proportionate cuts both in the U.K. and Germany, can Canada play a leadership role by mobilizing other donors and perhaps increasing its own aid contributions for needs that are significant at this time?
Ms. Urban: Thank you for the question. You are pointing out a reality that is having a profound impact on the continent. There is a significant change in the landscape of international assistance globally, including in Africa. The dismantling of USAID has had significant consequences for development on the continent.
I will begin by saying that countries like Canada can’t make up for the size of the immense loss from what is happening, but at the same time, there are international discussions around international assistance generally and how we can be most effective. One of the aspects we are increasingly looking at as part of the Africa Strategy is using innovative international assistance mechanisms, and that includes leveraging the private sector.
Maybe I will turn to Andrew Smith to continue on that.
Andrew Smith, Director General, Pan-African Affairs Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: Thank you. As we look to try to have more effective international assistance, as you know, within a context of declining aid levels, the Africa Strategy on trade and development looks to focus on that. So there are different approaches that we are taking, principally on the issue of improving and enabling environments in Africa to create the conditions for more trade and investment, as well as building systems for Africa to build its own capacity to effectively tax its economy, to generate the revenue to provide its own social supports to its population.
We are well aware of the impact of declining aid levels. Other areas and ways in which we give international assistance are through repayable contributions and ensuring the effectiveness of large multilateral organizations, like the African Development Bank Group. That’s another way that we are making our international assistance as effective as possible in this current climate.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Senator Coyle: Thank you for being here. I want to build on that last question, which is where I would have started, actually. I want to drill down a little further.
Ms. Urban, you mentioned continued investment in poverty reduction. Mr. Smith, you talked about the enabling environment, and we’ve talked about some Canadian partners, businesses and others. I haven’t heard anything about Canada’s Feminist International Assistance Policy or engaging Canadian civil society, some of whom would be at the forefront of innovation in international cooperation. Could you speak to those two things?
Ms. Urban: Indeed, poverty reduction is at the core of Canadian international assistance. Our Secretary of State for International Development has been clear and testified in front of committee that Canada’s international assistance will be, in the future, increasingly focused. This will also include a focus on economic benefit that is mutual and for economic growth.
Canada has a long-standing history of undertaking development in a way that is sensitive to gender equality. We have an expertise in that. That will always continue, and we will always continue to look at poverty reduction. In fact, there are many different ways that we can look at addressing poverty reduction. Sometimes, investments om governance mechanisms or ways in which countries can be more investment-worthy are ways of getting at those fundamental issues.
Canadian development will always build on past investments. For example, we have investments in health care. Increasingly, investing in institutions helps with the sustainability of that aid.
Mr. Smith: What we’re hearing from Canadian partners — because we engage Canadian partners regularly, with civil society organizations, or CSOs — is that they’re seeing in their engagement with African partners the need to support economic systems, to develop opportunities for African youth and improve employment.
The assistant deputy minister mentioned that the development trade marketplace that is taking place this week is very much about partnerships between the private sector and CSOs, where there is that very important overlap between achieving impact and development results and, at the same time, driving economic growth and prosperity.
Senator M. Deacon: Welcome back. Thank you for being here again. I have two questions, one with respect to the ombudsperson and the other with respect to diversification. My first question concerns the role of the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise. This is a position that has been vacant for quite a while. In 2024, the government announced it was reviewing the role.
As well as I can tell, this review is still ongoing. Is this true, fair and accurate? Can we expect the appointment of a new ombudsman in this role, or are you perhaps thinking about a slightly different path?
Ms. Urban: This is not in our area of responsibility as a branch. I think, at this time, there is nothing we can say about what is going to happen. All of us are waiting for future Government of Canada decisions and the federal budget to come out. This is not in our area of expertise.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you. I look forward to it. I think it is a critical piece. Perhaps we will hear about it sooner than later. I hope so.
The second question is about market diversification for Canadian exports in the times that we are presently in. Many of our established trading partners in Europe and Asia have already, I think, established pretty good supply chains. Canadian companies would have to compete now with existing suppliers. Africa has a number of emerging economies that would give Canada ground-floor access, so to speak. But one critique of the Africa Strategy is that it falls short of outlining real, palpable, clear, concise incentives for Canada to invest in Africa. What would you say to those critics? Is the strategy already in need of a rejig there, given the rapidly changing global trade environment in which we find ourselves? It is a little different than when this document was written.
Ms. Urban: Thank you very much. Having a concrete understanding of where commercial opportunities are for Canadian companies is a key element of implementing the Africa Strategy. That’s a lot of what we are doing. I mentioned we have the Africa Trade Hub, and our staff are very much exploring that, as are our directors general and staffs at our high commissions and embassies.
We know that some African countries have critical minerals and supply chains that are of interest to Canada. It may be useful for us to provide concrete examples. Maybe I will turn to Mr. Smith. This is an area we are very much looking at, because the idea is to find concrete opportunities for Canadians. This is in line with the strategy as it currently exists.
Mr. Smith: I would note that Africa is an attractive market. The potential for that is something that Canadian companies will realize is being driven by the fact that other markets are closing or, as you noted, very well developed, so opportunities are limited.
I think the challenge for us is to demonstrate the potential of African markets and understand what those markets look like. We are doing that. We are looking at the potential of African markets in line with Canadian expertise. An important part of this is to demonstrate that a lot of challenges in Africa relate to perceived risks, that these are not firm credit or political risks. In fact, there are a lot of perceived risks that we can, within our remit in Global Affairs Canada, help to address to reduce the perception that African markets are difficult and challenging.
[Translation]
Senator Hébert: My question is a follow-up to my colleague’s. You were going to add to your answer, Mr. Smith. I am going to take my time, if you don’t mind. I am interested in this and the question I am going to ask is in exactly the same vein.
[English]
What were you about to say?
Mr. Smith: In the context of de-risking, this is something that we are very actively looking at.
One simple approach is to take Canadians to Africa to give them an opportunity to see African markets and opportunities that exist there.
We’re also trying to address this in concrete ways in terms of the support we provide to African countries and implementing the African Continental Free Trade Area. We’ve been doing that for more than a decade. We’ve been looking at supporting African countries to reduce their trade barriers and improve their investment climate. We are doing this in many different sectors.
I get the sense that my colleague would like to intervene as well.
Senator Hébert: You mentioned that you are contemplating bringing businesses there, and I think that’s the way to go. I think that there is a potential market. I just looked at the —
[Translation]
— the International Monetary Fund. Growth predictions for Africa are in fact good: on the order of 4%, according to the latest forecasts published in October. It is a market where there are numerous francophone countries. That is good for certain provinces, thinking particularly of Quebec, and this is in fact a worthwhile opportunity in terms of risk management.
Are there any trade missions planned for the short term, and if so, in what sector?
Susan Steffen, Director General, West Africa and Maghreb Bureau, Global Affairs Canada: Good morning. I am not going to address this question directly because I am not familiar with missions that are planned, in particular, but I am going to ask my colleague to talk about that. I wanted to raise two or three points.
First, there are a number of tools within the Government of Canada, not just Global Affairs Canada. Export Development Canada, or EDC, and FinDev Canada are useful tools within the Canadian government. We work together on risk perception.
Second, we have to remember that not all markets in Africa are the same. Some are very advanced and conducive to Canadian investment. Others will take a bit of time and care to become markets that are conducive to investment.
The Chair: That will be a question to take up in the second round.
Senator Hébert: Yes, exactly.
[English]
Senator Al Zaibak: I wonder how our approach to Africa, our investment and trade strategy, measures up or compares to that of China, for example. Given the growing presence of global powers — such as China, India and the EU — in Africa, how does Global Affairs plan to position Canada as a distinctive and trusted partner?
Ms. Urban: Indeed, countries such as China, India and Türkiye have a very significant presence on the continent. They’ve been there for some time. There’s a tremendous amount of economic cooperation that’s happening. Canada’s presence is not comparable in that regard.
The other part of your question was around what Canada brings to the table. One thing that was mentioned is that we have linguistic ties. Francophone Africa certainly makes a big difference, and it’s a real opportunity. Part of the strategy was to leverage these linguistic ties and make the best of them.
We also know that, frankly, many African governments want to work with Canada. We are known for our standards and our particular way of operating, and our companies have a good brand on the continent. We can leverage that as part of our commercial opportunity, as well as what we are doing right now with the groundwork of identifying markets.
Mr. Smith: If I can add on that point, the issue of standards, in concrete terms, the Canadian mining community is very well regarded, not just in Africa but globally. Sustainable mining standards that are set by the Mining Association of Canada are globally renowned and being taken up by African countries. This is in contrast to other investors working in those sectors.
Senator Al Zaibak: I noticed that most recently, China has opened up its market to developing countries, reducing or eliminating all the import tariffs. I’m wondering if we are considering something like that. We are thinking about the African market, but can we think of it as well as a supplier or substitute for any kind of supplies we’re getting from the U.S.?
Ms. Urban: I can’t speculate on that. I’m not responsible for trade policy within our department, so unfortunately, I’m not able to answer that question.
Senator MacDonald: Let’s talk about money for a few minutes. These figures may be dated, but with the things I look at, we send about $900 million a year to Africa with some of our efforts — about $4.5 billion in the last five years. How do we trace and track that money to see if it’s going where we want it to? How do we ensure that it’s not going into the pockets of people who shouldn’t have that money?
Ms. Urban: Thank you for the question. Indeed, as you see in the Africa Strategy, it was mentioned that in the past five years, Canada provided $4.5 billion in bilateral international assistance to Africa. We operate with rigorous mechanisms through trusted international, Canadian and local partners. In many cases, we are not providing international assistance directly to governments; we are working through trusted intermediaries, and we have robust, results-based management practices that help us track the results. We have a focus on results.
I don’t know if any of my colleagues would like to contribute.
Ms. Steffen: I think that our assistant deputy minister has outlined one of the key elements, which is working through trusted partners, be they Canadian and non-governmental organizations or United Nations organizations or in some cases local organizations that we have thoroughly vetted. We have a process that has a strong risk assessment called a Fiduciary Risk Evaluation Tool. It’s called the FRET, because we fret about risk. That’s the upfront part. We have people on the ground as well, people we bring from Canada, to monitor the projects. Feet on the ground in front of the people is the best way to see how things are proceeding.
We’ll never catch it all. It would be, I think, naive to say that we would catch everything, but I think we catch most of it. When we don’t catch it, we catch up with it later. We learn from that, and then we change our processes to capture that as well.
Senator MacDonald: When it comes to dealing with developed or non-developed countries, or countries that aren’t particularly democratic in Africa, is there criteria we apply to where we’re going to provide money? For example, is South Africa still considered to be a developed nation?
Ms. Urban: Presently, Canada undertakes international development in a number of countries. We undertake international development in South Africa. I can have my colleagues speak to that. We do that, for example, with a sovereign loan that we give to the Government of South Africa to work on issues related to climate change and energy transition.
The Chair: I’m afraid we’re out of time on that, but it’s something we can pick up in the second round, senator, if you’re all right with that.
We’re at the end of the first round, and I’m going to use my privilege as chair to ask a question. It follows on what some colleagues mentioned about the collapse or change, or however you want to characterize it, of USAID as a major donor, particularly in Africa. I have a two-part question.
First, on humanitarian assistance, from statistics that I’ve seen, there’s a big void. Sudan is a good example in terms of what is given to the World Food Programme, or WFP. I think about 60% of WFP funding had come from USAID. There’s a big hole there. We’re going to have a separate meeting on Sudan in the future. That’s one question, whether you see other countries stepping in or whether indeed that’s possible, in your conversations, shall we say, with other major donors.
The second part of that is whether Canada has, like other donor countries, been involved in partnering with USAID on projects in Africa and where that might stand right now.
Ms. Urban: Starting with your second question, I’m not aware of any projects we’ve undertaken in Africa that have been partnered with USAID. Looking at my colleagues, that is not something that we are aware of.
Indeed, there has been a very big impact on humanitarian assistance, in particular the World Food Programme, with the reduction in USAID funding going to the continent. There are many discussions. Our Deputy Minister for International Development and our assistant deputy ministers take part in international discussions that are taking place between like-minded partners in the global community to talk about how the international aid architecture can work and what role Canada will play within it. It’s a fundamental issue and was also a topic at the recent World Bank Annual Meetings held in D.C. I don’t know if anyone wants to add to that.
Ms. Steffen: Quickly, on partnerships with USAID, nothing springs to mind. We can certainly take a deeper dive if you want specifics. In general, their processes and ways of doing things are very different from the Canadian way of doing things. They are very complementary.
There are areas, both thematic and geographic, where we work together. It’s not a formal partnership but an informal one. They’ll work on that, we’ll work on this and the two will come together.
I don’t see that changing except in terms of volume. Their way of approaching it may not change in the places where we are working communally in the same area, but the volume with which they are doing so will.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
I heard from a number of Europeans that they had been involved in what amounted to joint projects. In my own recollection, when I was sitting where you’re sitting, I didn’t think we had that much cooperation with USAID, but as you say, Ms. Steffen, to the side and coordinating in a way so that we’re not duplicating efforts. Thank you for that.
We’re going to move into the second round of questions.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I definitely want to get back to the implementation of the strategy. When the government launched Canada’s Indo-Pacific Strategy, it came with an envelope that was announced right away. With that envelope, a lot of things got started immediately. There is talk about trade missions, participation in summits and a lot of things. We have a strategy in place, we have announced things, we have envoys and will be opening embassies, but how will the embassies work, how will the envoys work, if we don’t have a budget envelope to go with it all? I don’t understand why a concrete envelope has not been decided.
That is the first part I want to come back to. Second, is there really an implementation plan under way? Is there a timetable for making it public? Thank you.
[English]
Ms. Urban: I’ll begin with the first question with regard to resources.
The Africa Strategy was drafted in a way where it can be implemented using the existing resources that we have, and that’s why it’s mentioned in the strategy that there was $4.5 billion in bilateral assistance in the previous five years. To achieve the objectives of the strategy, which are ambitious, it requires changing focus, increasing the extent to which we undertake prioritization on certain things, doing things in a different, more innovative way and being effective with the way we do things, which is in the spirit of the Government of Canada right now in making the best effective use of our resources for the results we want to achieve. We know African partners wanted us to work towards peer-to-peer partnerships that are mutually beneficial. That’s what this is focused on.
I believe that we are developing the plans. Your next question was about an implementation plan. Certainly, within the department, we are following up with a strategy. The strategy is high level. In order to implement the strategy, you need to develop plans at a much more concrete level that are focused on specific countries and specific sectors to achieve very concrete objectives.
With regard to public documents, we will work within the department with our ministers to discuss which documents become public in the future.
Senator Gerba: Can you promise us you will have this implementation plan on hand shortly?
Ms. Urban: At the moment, I can say that we’re not working on one particular implementation plan document, but we have strategies, plans and implementation approaches in different areas that we are continuing to develop. For example, when Mr. Smith was talking about our Africa Trade Hub, they are developing concrete plans and our embassies and high commissions themselves are taking the strategy. Then, each high commission is developing its own approach based on the principles and objectives of the strategy and translating that into the action that they’re undertaking.
Senator Coyle: I’m encouraged by hearing this move towards the mutually beneficial partnerships. You’ve also mentioned building on existing investments we’ve made in areas such as health care.
I’ve been working, along with one of our former colleagues, Senator Omidvar, with some experts at Toronto Metropolitan University and Concordia and others internationally, on a global skills partnership around health care workers. Europeans are way ahead of us on this, as they are on a number of things, but there’s no reason why we can’t leap in there now. It’s looking at significant investments in African countries — not the whole continent but certain African countries — that help them build their health care sector in a way that they are certified to also work in Canada. You’re therefore building both at the same time.
Is this something that might be of interest to undertake or to bring to the attention of Global Affairs Canada?
Ms. Urban: There are clearly opportunities in areas such as this, working in areas of skills and employment, especially because under our Africa Strategy, we recognize that the demographics in Africa provide opportunities for investing in youth, and that can also provide labour solutions, not only within Africa but also potentially for Canada.
Mr. Smith: In the context of declining international assistance budgets, questions around systems and the ability for them to function effectively become more and more important, both in terms of finances — I mentioned earlier about enabling environments — and having that local capacity to deliver services. I think what you’ve described speaks to the way in which we’re evolving our thinking around these key sectors within the international assistance space.
Senator Coyle: Is there cooperation with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada?
Mr. Clark: It’s a great example of the evolution of the type of assistance we’re hoping to deploy as part of the strategy and across the department and other areas. When we talk about identifying mutual benefits and interests, it’s a great example of where Canada knows a lot and has been investing a lot abroad, in a sector that we and our civil society partners know a tremendous amount about. We also have clear Canadian capacities that can be deployed to enhance that overall offering.
[Translation]
Senator Hébert: I am going to continue in the same vein as the concerns expressed by my colleague, Senator Gerba, since the fact is that a strategy that has no envelope for implementating it presents major challenges when you have to deal with existing resources. That being said, Canada is well established in several countries in Africa. We know that some of them have public investments that are in the pipeline. Have efforts been made to see how Canadian firms can get in on African procurement processes in developing countries?
Ms. Steffen: Everybody has a little piece of this puzzle. To summarize the issue: for Canadian organizations, companies and businesses that are already there or are already interested, how do we encourage and facilitate their entry into those economies, with the opportunities that exist? Have I understood correctly?
Senator Hébert: In public investments, is there support for the companies? Are there strategies to support the companies in procurement processes?
Ms. Steffen: We could mention the CCC —
[English]
— which is government-to-government lending.
[Translation]
We could also mention the African Development Bank. Our executive director sits on the board. There are procurement processes with the African Development Bank, something worth considering, and we provide opinions and advice to Canadian companies that want to get in on their procurement process.
[English]
Can you talk about the Canadian Commercial Corporation, or CCC, and the work that they do?
Mr. Smith: Certainly. The CCC focuses mainly on providing guarantees and creating an environment in which Canadian companies feel comfortable and reducing that risk that I mentioned earlier, of moving into specific markets, whether that would be investments in a public market or partnerships with Canadian companies. We don’t tend to focus specifically on where investments might go but rather ensure the opportunities, as they exist within the private sector, private markets or public markets with the public sector, so that we can address those broad issues that can allow for trade and investment with any element within an African market.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Senator MacDonald: I want to go back to what we were speaking about before. I am sometimes taken aback by reports I read about where we’re sending money and what countries. Foreign aid to China and other countries I find perplexing. I know there’s a need for aid for Africa, and we want to be helpful. We want to develop business relationships down there.
Again, I go back to South Africa. Is that still considered to be a developed country? If it is still considered to be a developed country, why are we giving developed countries aid?
Ms. Urban: I’ll quickly start, and then I will turn to my colleague. For example, on the African continent, when we’re looking at where we might want to undertake international assistance, there are various lenses that we want to use.
For example, if our priority right now is mutually beneficial partnerships, including economic partnerships, then we look at our priority markets on the continent and see where, for example, trade and investment can help us to build those partnerships that will create mutually beneficial places.
Regarding security, we have a regional development program for the Sahel, and we work with democracies in the region because terrorism is a problem there, and that’s of interest to Canada. Therefore, it’s a reason to do so.
We also operate in middle-income countries such as South Africa, and there are reasons for doing so. I will turn to Ryan Clark.
Mr. Clark: It’s a great question and one that we need to continue asking ourselves.
Regarding South Africa’s eligibility, they are eligible for — the moniker is “official development assistance” — and that’s determined by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation, or OECD, in Paris, which figures out what the GDP per head is. There’s a line, and if you’re below it, you’re eligible.
We invest — if I can use that term — in South Africa with our official development assistance, because we get tremendous impact from it, and we’re working with a partner that is one of our top partners on the continent.
Cheryl Urban mentioned earlier that we have a sovereign loan with them that is supporting their Just Energy Transition, so trying to help South Africa transition off coal. It provides us a tremendous amount of insight into the South African economy, but it also helps us to work with that country on the global priority of reducing overall emissions.
The size of our bilateral program outside of sovereign loans is very small and very targeted, and it’s primarily targeted in the economic space, as we look to identify some of these mutual opportunities that the Africa Strategy is trying to uncover.
However, it’s something we have to remain vigilant on. In many countries, the question of whether there are revenues available to support the populace is one of distribution of wealth and political will, so it’s something that we are always looking at in the context of South Africa but also in other middle-income countries that we support with official development assistance.
Senator Al Zaibak: Can you elaborate on the design and early operations of the Africa Trade Hub? What specific tools will it offer to Canadian businesses, and how will it coordinate with FinDev Canada and provincial partners, knowing that it’s a trade hub? I don’t know if it’s within your scope or mandate.
Ms. Urban: To be clear, we are responsible for the Africa Trade Hub and commercial relations between Canada and African countries. I’m just not responsible for overall Government of Canada trade policy.
I will turn to Andrew Smith. He is the director general responsible for the Africa Trade Hub and has been there since the inception of the trade hub. He can talk about some of his activities.
I might add that the trade hub works with key partners, for example, the Canada-Africa Chamber of Business and other organizations that we cooperate with in order to reach private sector clients, et cetera.
Mr. Smith: The African Trade Hub is an innovation within Global Affairs Canada, insofar as, in normal circumstances, we would have our trade commissioners at headquarters. They would be deployed into our geographic desks.
With the trade hub, we took all of our trade officers or trade officials and we put them together. What that has allowed us to do is create a critical mass of trade capacity within one team. The trade commissioners at headquarters continue to provide that support through their geographic desks.
Sitting together also allows us to develop a broader perception of trade and trade’s relevance in Africa. It’s allowed us, within my team, to build stronger connective tissue between our development programming, our foreign policy work and our trade work.
It has allowed us to develop a stronger trade policy capacity within the Africa Branch. What that means in concrete terms is that in most cases, trade commissioners will be dealing with Canadian companies who want to move into specific African markets. They don’t usually have the time or space to think about trade policy issues around investment protection or trade and development — how those things work together to complement the work they do directly with Canadian companies.
Ms. Steffen: That unit also has direct contact with the provinces, which is something that we couldn’t do as effectively or efficiently as before.
The Chair: Thank you for adding that.
Senator M. Deacon: This is more of a comment than a question as we go through this Africa study and try to drill down.
We have a committee here that is looking at the work of foreign affairs and international trade, but we also talk to Canadians all the time, and we’re getting questions on Africa.
I think there seems to be little more confusion on what the role of Canada is and isn’t. When we started this study, we would hear, “Africa needs Canada.” That’s not really so much the case anymore, and Canada needs Africa a little bit more. That is the story.
I’m just encouraging that in communication, and that continues to prevail. What is Canada’s story? What is it we’re trying to do?
We try to do our best to talk and speak on behalf, but I think clarity for Canadians on where this fits within the rest of our trade and humanitarian work would be greatly appreciated.
The Chair: Did you wish to comment on the comment?
Ms. Urban: I will just say in agreement that communication is incredibly important in the work we’re doing, including communication with Canadians to explain what we’re doing and to tell the story about why we’re there.
The Chair: Thank you.
Colleagues and witnesses, we are now going to do something that is a term of art in committee work, and that’s called a soft transition. Our witnesses from panel one will stay with us, and we are going to go to Africa now and hear from two ambassadors, whom we’ve heard from before, one in a different context.
For our second panel, we’re pleased to welcome back to the committee Ben Marc Diendéré, Canada’s Permanent Observer to the African Union and United Nations Economic Commission for Africa; and Marcel Lebleu, who has been here before as a director general and is now in the field. He is the Ambassador of Canada to the Republic of Senegal and Special Envoy for the Sahel.
Welcome to you both.
[Translation]
As I said earlier, we have representatives from Global Affairs Canada in the room who were on the previous panel to assist you. We are now ready to hear your preliminary remarks. They will be followed by a period of questions from senators. Ambassador Diendéré, you have the floor; you will be followed by Ambassador Lebleu.
Ben Marc Diendéré, Canada’s Permanent Observer to the African Union and United Nations Economic Commission for Africa, Global Affairs Canada: Mr. Chair, honourable senators, hello again. I also adopt your unceded land acknowledgement. I would particularly like to recognize all the recently appointed new senators.
I am very pleased to be testifying to support Canada’s engagement in Africa, particularly in these times when there is so much repositioning and questioning.
You will certainly recall my enthusiasm in November 2024 after the successful conclusion of the second Canada-African Union Commission high level dialogue in Toronto. This was a turning point. We had the participation of three Global Affairs Canada ministers, the African Union Commission chairperson, several AU commissioners, and of course the former prime miniser.
Almost a year has passed, and the context has changed dramatically. We have a newly elected Prime Minister and government that are facing profound economic and geopolitical challenges. The deputy minister spoke to you about this. We find ourselves dealing with a new dynamic. This has precipitated adjustments to some of our country’s core priorities. Between the cuts to government spending and the reorientation of priorities, the pressure from U.S. tariffs, Canada’s G7, and South Africa’s G20, the wind has been blowing. It has blown hard, as they say in Quebec.
However, what has not changed, and must not, is our collective strategic commitment to bolstering Canada’s relations with the continent and its 54 countries that share Agenda 2063.
All the experts agree that this will be the century of India and Africa. Since our last meeting, we have been proud to launch Canada’s Africa Strategy, which is set out in a reference document my colleagues have talked to you about. Then came the creation of the position I hold of special envoy for Africa, as does my colleague Ambassador Marcel Lebleu for the Sahel.
Honourable senators, before talking to you about my new role as special envoy and the measures taken to advance Canada’s Africa Strategy, I would like to remind you of why we remain unshakable in our commitment to deepening our relations with that continent.
Africa is not just the continent of tomorrow; it is the continent of today. It is home to almost 1.5 billion consumers, 60% of whom are under the age of 25, according to the International Monetary Fund. In addition, as Senator Hébert correctly pointed out, 12 of the 20 fastest growing economies in 2025 are in Africa.
The African Continental Free Trade Area is no longer a distant aspiration; it is reality. We are talking about a trillion dollars. Canada is already responding to these concrete opportunities. For this committee, what is important is that our two-way merchandise trade with the continent totaled $15 billion. Canadian direct investment in Africa was $12 billion, an average year-over-year growth of nearly 5% since 2018.
Since April 2025, I have had the privilege of moving Canada’s response to changes in the African landscape forward. While the Canadian government was fighting headwinds here in America, the “Africa department”, all of the Canadian ambassadors in Africa, have rolled up their sleeves. With the help of our department and our small teams, two people in my own case, we have done our utmost. We have supported this strategy while waiting for it to be implemented. I have gone on the road to promote Canada’s interests, intensifying our efforts to deepen and diversify trade relations wtih countries in key regions, particularly in sectors where Canada has demonstrated a competitive advantage.
The salient facts are these. During this active period of only six months that is not over yet, I have participated in continental initiatives relating to trade, investment, energy, mines, technology, agriculture, education, biosecurity and climate.
It is noteworthy that I am talking to you today from Angola, where I am for the third Financing Summit for Africa’s Infrastructure Development. I would just note that Angola currently chairs the African Union.
I participated at the Intra-African Trade Fair in Algiers alongside 16 Canadian companies representing a broad range of sectors including agri-tech, defence, AI, shipping and the creative industries. This was a terrific collaboration with Ambassador Robin Wettlaufer and her team, whom I thank.
I attended the African Energy Week forum in Cape Town with a delegation of 19 Canadian companies. This was all possible thanks to the collaboration of the [Technical difficulties] team, High Commissioner James Christoff in Pretoria, and the Kenya, Nigeria and Mozambique trade team.
Last month, I participated in the second African Climate Summit in Addis Ababa, which is a partnership between Canada and the African Development Bank for blended finance initiatives supporting agri-business and resilience.
I also participated in the Diaspora Investment Forum in Ghana that my colleagues talked to you about. There have been test initiatives with High Commissioner Myriam Montrat and her team with a view to developing mechanisms for engaging with our diaspora of 1.4 million people, which you have also heard about.
Future projects include the Critical Minerals Summit at the Mining Indaba conference and a G20 summit in South Africa next month.
Honourable senators, my role includes representation functions that supplement and extend the impact of missions carried out by ministers and senior officials on the continent. While my mission primarily involves economic diplomacy, I am mindful of my role as permanent observer. In that capacity, my team and I are actively preparing for the next Canada-African Union Commission high-level dialogue on trade policy, which will be held in either Addis Ababa or Canada, to be decided by the authorities.
Mr. Chair, our micromission to Addis Ababa is also the mission of the NATO contact point embassy, which is a mark of the partners’ confidence and is a subject of importance to the present Prime Minister and his government.
Honourable senators, the last six months have been important ones. I have seen, heard and taken note of our partners’ interest in the alternative way of doing business that Canada offers: Canada’s signature is in demand.
In closing, I would like to say I am proud to contribute to furthering our companies’ interests on the African continent. Our companies and our economy are worth the effort. We have to fight. And last, I am proud to be able to better position Canada and Canadians for the geopolitical and economic challenges that lie ahead.
Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Diendéré.
Ambassador Lebleu now has the floor.
Marcel Lebleu, Ambassador to the Republic of Senegal and Special Envoy for the Sahel, Global Affairs Canada: Good morning, Mr. Chair and honourable senators. I would particularly like to greet Senator Ataullahjan and Senator Gerba, whom I had the opportunity and the great pleasure of welcoming a little earlier this year in Senegal.
As you know, I was appointed as special envoy for the Sahel on March 6, 2025, at the launch of Canada’s Africa Strategy, to contribute to Canada’s approach to the region, which is a strategic one for Canada but also for our partners.
In May of this year, as special envoy for the Sahel, I travelled to Mali, where I met with representatives of civil society and of political parties, although it must be said that they have been banned since my visit, and with the chair of the National Transition Council to reaffirm our commitment to the Sahel. I also met with partner organizations, including the World Food Programme, to discuss the humanitarian challenges facing the region. The picture that emerged is cause for concern. I will travel to Ouagadougou on November 10 for a similar exercise. These visits fall within our strategy, one of the focuses of which is to maintain and strengthen our diplomatic activity in the region.
It will come as no surprise if I tell you that the Sahel is going through an unprecedented multidimensional crisis.
In fact, the strategy highlighted this: the Sahel alone accounts for almost half of all global terrorism deaths. That is huge. Terrorist threats originating in the region could spread to coastal West Africa.
As special envoy, I recently met with the King of Jordan, who chairs the Aqaba Process, an initiative that seeks to identify opportunities for security cooperation. The meeting I participated in dealt specifically with the security situation in West Africa. A number of heads of state from West Africa also attended that meeting. A clear consensus easily emerged: The fight against terrorism is a collective responsibility but leadership of that fight must be assumed by the countries in the region. Canada is a partner in that fight against terrorism, including by its contribution to the Académie internationale de lutte contre le terrorisme based in Côte d’Ivoire.
The consequences of this humanitarian and security crisis are tragic. Millions of people have been displaced, health care and education systems are paralyzed, and there is chronic food insecurity. People often find themselves caught between their own armed forces and terrorist groups.
It must be acknowledged that these national armed forces are sometimes supported by Russian troops. Terrorist groups abound in the region, one of which is the JNIM, which Canada has listed as a terrorist entity.
Given this situation, the only possible response is military. Lasting security depends on an integrated approach that combines stabilization and socio-economic development. This is where Canada has a role to play.
On the humanitarian side, Canada is recognized for its commitment to vulnerable populations. This year, Canada has allocated $40 million for humanitarian assistance to the Sahel alone. To support that commitment, I met earlier this week with Tayyar Sukru Cansizoglu, the representative of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Mauritania. I mention this because he informed me that almost 200,000 people had fled to the Mbera refugee camp or the surrounding area, near Mali.
This is no small matter: The Mbera camp is today the second largest urban agglomeration in Mauritania. Tens of thousands of additional refugees are expected in the coming weeks because of the resurgence of violence in Mali. I took that opportunity to inform the representative that, earlier this week, the United Nations Peacebuilding Fund, to which Canada is the third-largest contributor, had approved a stabilization project for the border areas between Mauritania, Mali and Senegal.
However, humanitarian aid cannot be divorced from development efforts. Our minister is aware of this and, as part of Canada’s Africa Strategy, has launched a regional development program for the Sahel under which the first projects have already started.
As part of my duties, I have also met with the regional representative of the World Food Programme, the WFA, which is responsible for implementation of the Sahel Integrated Resilience Programme and seeks to reach five million people in more than 4,000 villages, and will ultimately rehabilitate 420,000 hectares for crops in all Sahel countries combined. The program is funded in part by Canada up to a maximum of $10 million. The results appear conclusive.
In closing, I would note the presence of our companies in Mali and Burkina Faso in particular, two countries where Canada is the largest foreign investor. My colleagues at Global Affairs Canada and I are in regular contact with those companies, to promote Canada’s economic interests in a complex environment. Thank you for your attention.
The Chair: Thank you, ambassador.
[English]
Colleagues, we will now begin with questions and answers.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I am delighted to see you again, Ambassador Diendéré and Ambassador Lebleu. It is always a pleasure. Taking into account both the current situation on the African continent and the priorities of the Canadian government, in particular for diversifying our export markets, what tools do you have for implementing an effective Canada-Africa economic strategy?
Also, among the practices observed elsewhere in the world, which ones do you see as being most suited for adapting to the Canadian context?
Mr. Diendéré: I am happy to see you again too, senator.
That is a good question. As Senator Hébert said: When you put a strategy in place, you have to put resources and tools into it. I come from the private sector, and that is how we do things.
I am going to be very honest with you. At the moment, we are limited. There is the project we are working on, the missions we are in the process of opening, and our companies and commissioners on the ground. You know, this is a world in rapid motion. We are no longer living in the day of studies and lengthy discussions. Either we decide to do business in Africa or we don’t. I think we need centralized tools that bring together all our resources and enable us to take clear action on things, specific activities and topics. We can choose to go into agriculture, energy, mining, and so on, but we have to choose. That calls for having a common instrument that is arranged for the purpose, and the instruments we have right now are not that, because we are having a hard time reforming.
Senator Gerba: Thank you. I agree with your idea of having an instrument. How do you envisage overseeing the instrument through which you want Canada’s initiative in Africa to operate, and maintaining its consistency? Is there a way of doing it so there is a degree of synergy with what is already there?
Mr. Diendéré: Thank you for your question. I neglected the last part of your question. Are there models elsewhere? The Chinese, Russians, Indians, Turks, the United Arab Emirates all have a specific instrument for Africa for their activities. There have to be oversight and accountability mechanisms put in place. There have to be places for oversight of the people working on the ground. This could be a round table, for example, but there have to be places where people can sit down and have a centre for dialogue, to monitor everything being done on the ground. You will not do business in Africa if you are not better organized than that. At present, we are somewhat scattered for the speed of the business being done and the shifting economic dynamics on the continent.
The Chair: Thank you, ambassador.
[English]
Senator Ataullahjan: I have a question for both ambassadors. I will ask my questions, and hopefully we have time for the answers.
To the special envoy, you said something which really resonated with me. You said Africa is today’s continent. Now that Canada is looking for other international markets, are Canadian businesses aware of the potential within Africa? Those of us who travel keep seeing that the market is huge, and yet Canada is missing.
Ambassador Lebleu, it’s very good to see you. You were kind to us and looked after us when we were in Senegal. My question to you about the cutbacks that have worsened the health care indicators, disrupting health programs and the infrastructure. HIV affects 15 million people within the Sahel region. There are impacts on HIV, malaria and on TB. I could go on and on. What are you seeing and hearing on the ground?
Mr. Lebleu: Thank you for the question. I will have a short reply for your first question, and that is from my view as a trade commissioner for 20 years. Exporters don’t see potential. They typically want concrete business opportunities, and this is where I think our network can help assist in finding these opportunities. I will give you a concrete example.
I met a few months ago with the representatives of Réseau Gazier du Sénégal. They expressed a clear need. We put them in contact with companies in Calgary, and they are following up. This is one way we can help.
On your question, it is very difficult. There are about 10 million people who are internally displaced; about 2 million people are refugees outside their countries. We spend a lot of time discussing basic access to humanitarian assistance in Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger. Let me give you an example of how complex it could be.
The Red Cross was kicked out of Niger a few months back because the government didn’t like it. They jailed some NGOs in Burkina Faso who were helping to map where it is safe to provide humanitarian assistance. The costs of distribution have escalated; that goes for both food and health services. About 40% of the territory in Burkina Faso is not controlled by the government. There are some blockades now for things like fuel going to Bamako. It is quite challenging.
Some of you mentioned the withdrawal of the Americans. I was told by the UN World Food Programme that last year at this time, 45% of their calls for assistance had been heard. So far this year, it’s only 29%.
Now I turn to Ben Marc.
The Chair: I am afraid we don’t have enough time for Ambassador Diendéré, but, senator, if you agree, we will come back to your question in the second round.
Senator Ravalia: Thank you, Your Excellencies, for your testimony. My question is for Ambassador Lebleu and, if there is an opportunity, for Ambassador Diendéré to respond to as well.
To what extent can Canada engage with the current frustrations of Generation Z in Africa, recognizing the core catalysts and frustrations that include governance, economic opportunity and social inclusion? We’ve seen issues, most recently in Madagascar, but also in Morocco, Kenya, South Africa and Mali. How engaged are we with this youth group?
Mr. Lebleu: I will limit my comments to the Sahel region, and I will let Ben Marc explain more.
Indeed, we have major challenges in creating economic opportunities for these young people. That’s the main challenge. This is where our strategy is well aligned with the requirements and needs of these societies, to create wealth and create jobs so these people don’t turn to desperate means, not to mention terrorist activity.
We have limits on how much we will get involved with some of these governments. We need to wait. We need to make sure that there are some limits. At the same time, it is part of our engagement and our commitment to maintain bridges and dialogue with some of these countries.
Maybe Ben Marc will want to add something in terms of the other part of the continent.
Mr. Diendéré: Of course. Thank you, senator, for your question.
Last week, I was at the continental Skills Week, and that was destiny for Generation Z. I had a chance to meet all these young folks. My first big event here regarded the $40 million that we sent to the African Union for technical and vocational education and training, or TVET, because this generation needs training. They need to be on the ground to do their stuff.
As Canadians, we have been seen as the best in the creative industry in the north. They like us for this. And guess what? In Nigeria today, when you are thinking about Nollywood and so on, it is a creative industry. All these young folks have smartphones in their hands and want to be creative. We have a lot of things we can do with them.
What we are doing today, to be more specific on the TVET program, is working with the African Union to ensure that they have member states implementing TVET in their countries, on agribusiness, on energy, on things that this generation really needs. I will stop there.
The Chair: Thank you very much. That brings back a memory of an exchange that Ambassador Lebleu and I had at a meeting about Afropop, so culture is very important.
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for joining us today. It is certainly greatly appreciated.
I want to ask about Canadian extraction industries operating in Africa at this time. We know that there has been some history of allegations of abuse and human rights violations by these companies in Africa.
From an ambassador’s perspective, do you ever receive complaints about such acts at your level, in government-to-government discussions and communications? Is it on their radar when you talk? Do you think these situations hurt the case for Canada when trying to push things like worker rights and human rights? I’m asking this in the context of Canada looking to expand in Africa and seek new trade partners.
[Translation]
Mr. Diendéré: You have asked a very important question, senator.
The issue of natural resources and extraction industries is very important to Africans. Young people are in the streets today protesting against their government, which is wrongly looking to foreign companies, including Canadian companies, to exploit their natural resources. It’s an optical illusion. It can be hard to understand.
The challenge for Canadians is not whether they are acceptable, our companies enjoy a high degree of acceptance. Our companies have the best standards on the continent. I have met with mining companies. Here in Uganda, I have even met with representatives of Ivanhoe Mines, who have the confidence of governments.
The risk for all industries, for all extraction companies in Africa today, is state sovereignty. Countries have the impression that their minerals and natural resources are going elsewhere and they are fighting. One of the debates today at the infrastructure summit dealt with processing those minerals within the country itself rather than extracting them and processing them elsewhere.
Your question regarding human rights is important. There are abuses, but I have not had problems with any Canadian company, I have not had a country raise it with me during my official travels, except to remind me of the high standards that Canadian companies have when it comes to mines, which could set standards for the rest of the continent.
[English]
The Chair: I think we are almost out of time.
Senator M. Deacon: I will leave it at that, then. Thank you.
[Translation]
Senator Hébert: I think you are correct, Ambassador Diendéré. There are things happening in Africa right now and we have to get on the train as it passes. The impression I have, from what you have told us, is that we are a bit behind and we are running after the train, because we don’t have the budget to buy a ticket and get on board.
I would like to hear your thoughts on the resources you would need. Your colleagues at Global Affairs Canada talked about this a little earlier: We have the Canadian Commercial Corporation, which is supposed to help our companies gain access to procurement processes. We have various services, through the EDC, that help companies equip themselves better. We have embassies on the ground. I would like to hear your thoughts about what needs to be done so we can get on the train as it passes and take advantage of the opportunities that exist there.
Mr. Diendéré: Thank you for your question. I was briefed on what I can and can’t say, I will be honest with you, and I was told not to make decisions on behalf of a minister. Thanks to my friend Marcel, who is a mentor to me.
I do have ideas, however. If we take it into our heads to do exactly what the Canadian government is doing right now with the Major Projects Office and do the same thing as it has done with the military agencies, if we created our own agency to develop all the partnerships we want to develop in Africa, in the priority countries and regions and on our priority topics, critical minerals, the security industry, energy, and so on, we could take the 50 best Canadian companies that are there.
I swear I have sometimes pitied our companies. They are making every effort. They have no tickets, even. They don’t even have a ticket. Your reference to tickets was a good one. They don’t have tickets. They are making every effort on the continent. We need to look after them, to show them a bit of love. We are not being holier than holy right now. We can help them. Let’s create something strong that will support them from start to finish. We don’t even have to keep fighting anymore: We have to find a platform to move things forward.
The Chair: Do you want to add something, Ambassador Lebleu?
Mr. Lebleu: Possibly. We have talked about the tool kit for exporters. I am surprised no one mentioned CanExport, which is the department’s program specifically to help our exporters abroad diversify their markets.
If I may make a comment, and this is more of an observation since I don’t want to make a recommendation to my government, most European countries have aid programs that are sometimes tied. In Canada, the decision was made a long time ago to have non-tied aid programs. That is the Canadian policy and I am not going to comment on it. It is a fact and we work within that framework. There are some Canadian exporters who notice this situation and say things to us.
The Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Senator Coyle: Thank you very much. Thank you to both of the ambassadors today. It’s good to have you with us.
My first question will be for Ambassador Lebleu. You talked a lot about the humanitarian crisis in the Sahel region — the vulnerable populations and the humanitarian needs. We’ve heard a lot about youth in Africa being a real asset for the future of that continent and also for our future partnerships with Africa.
I’m wondering more about the upstream. Humanitarian assistance is absolutely critical, but are there things you’re seeing that Canada could be doing in partnership with our African and other international counterparts to help to prevent the political, economic and humanitarian upheaval that we’re seeing there? Are there things we can do at the front end to try to address this? Of course, we always have to support those who have humanitarian needs, but what are we doing at the front end in the region to try to prevent this?
Mr. Lebleu: That’s a good question. It’s complex.
You’re basically talking about how we address the root causes of the humanitarian and security crises. There are some basic issues. We have 5,000 schools. It started with education. The security situation now stops millions of kids from going to school. It’s quite difficulty to just talk about technical vocational training, but I see it as a place where we can help.
Canada is involved, for example, in Senegal, in that respect. We’re dealing with their minister of education. Their minister of technical training was in Canada about a month ago looking at our own model. This is one space where we can do more and where Canada’s expertise has been sought out.
The other element I would look at is support for young entrepreneurs. That is a space where we’re investing.
A third one — and Senator Gerba will understand where I’m going — is how we deal with our own diaspora in Canada. How can they contribute to the creation of jobs? Somebody asked if we work with provinces. I work with la Délégation générale du Québec à Dakar, and we want to organize a diaspora investment forum here in March to see how people who learn in Canada can bring back some of this wealth and knowledge to their country. They’re usually pretty keen in implementing that.
I’ll stop there.
The Chair: We’ve come to the end of the first round, so we’ll go immediately into the second round of questions. Senators, if you wish to ask a second question, you may. I have a short list, but it can get longer. If you want to volunteer, that would be great.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: I would like to come back to Ambassador Diendéré. I would like you to tell us more about your idea for an agency — in the past, we had CIDA, which closed in 2016 — that could coordinate all of Canada’s activities in Africa. How could that be done? How do you see that agency?
Mr. Lebleu, you are the special envoy for the Sahel, a region where our mining companies are very active and are very much affected by the political and security situations today. How are our companies getting on there? Are they still there?
Mr. Diendéré: Thank you, senator. I am going to answer quickly so Marcel has a chance to talk about the Sahel, which is important to all of us.
It is an idea I had. I haven’t thrown it out because I have seen how the other countries operate. Look at how Türkiye is doing things in Africa right now: using a clear vehicle. Look at how India is doing things in Africa: using a clear vehicle. How are Qatar and the United Arab Emirates operating? Using a clear vehicle. That is what we need.
In a dispatch I received today, I read that when elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers. We must not become collateral damage from what is happening in Africa, because there is a great battle for influence going on between Russia, China and India. They are great powers. Canada cannot allow ourselves to lose ground there.
An agency is not something we are inventing. The assistant deputy minister said we had the resources in our system. Let’s pool our resources. Let’s handle things we have an interest in directly. Let’s take the time to do things properly and support all our bilateral ambassadors on the ground who are moving economic projects forward.
This is not rocket science, but there needs to be clarity in our system today. If we could survive the shifting policies…. I don’t know where things will stand next year because of the US elections. Maybe we will disappear from the picture. Maybe Africa will no longer even be in the equation. Is that the risk we run, if we do nothing today, if we wait and keep doing things the way we did them before? It would be unfortunate for everyone to have invested so much time to move this strategy forward, with two special envoys and all the heads of delegations whom I meet with on all the trips and not have a vehicle to ride on over the next few years.
This is an idea. It may not be the best idea, but it is the one I have as a private sector guy. We need clarity. We need something that can get us onto the ground and let us take action without disrupting the system as it now stands.
The Chair: Time is up, but I want to give Ambassador Lebleu a minute to answer.
Mr. Lebleu: Quickly, it is actually very complex. In Mali, we have a very specific situation, where Barrick, the biggest private investor in the country, has had its assets virtually nationalized. Four of its employees have been in prison for eight months. There is a security situation that makes delivering fuel to mining operations a very complex undertaking. We spend a lot of time in what are sometimes very difficult dialogues, but we are keeping the channels open with the Mali government.
We also have investments in Burkina Faso. That is going relatively well, even though the government has increased its participation in the mining projects to 35% from 15% with no compensation. In our jargon, we call that “creeping nationalization.” This needs watching, but the demands coming from the people regarding resources and the benefits from them are being felt all across Africa.
[English]
Senator Ataullahjan: My question is to the special envoy, Mr. Diendéré. To repeat, you said Canada is today’s continent. I asked about Canadian businesses, which we keep hearing are risk-averse in that they don’t look for new markets. How do we get that message across to them?
You said that the past six months have been very important. Would you elaborate upon that?
Ambassador Lebleu, an update on terrorism in the Sahel — since 2019, we’ve seen an increase; you spoke about this already. Are we seeing any success in this fight against terrorism?
The Chair: Let’s start with Ambassador Diendéré and then go to Ambassador Lebleu.
Mr. Diendéré: Thank you, honourable senator.
Yes, these six months have been very important. A lot of things have changed in Africa. We have new leadership at the African Union. That’s one thing. All the people I knew last year are not here anymore, so I need to start my outreach again.
Second, we have a new government. The new government can throw priorities out there. Everybody is listening, and everybody is watching what is happening to us. We’re not in a bubble.
[Translation]
People know exactly what is happening to us.
[English]
They are starting to listen to us.
[Translation]
When we go to exhibitions with Canadian companies and 19 introduce themselves while 16 others head in the opposite direction, what is very surprising, even for me, is that there were that many. Despite the risks that everybody talks about, those companies are still there.
There are actually risks everywhere: in the United States, in Europe, in the Indo-Pacific. Why would the risks in Africa be greater than elsewhere? We have to change our narrative to persuade companies to come to the continent.
On that, I would note that CBC/Radio-Canada does not have a single one of its correspondents in Africa. Out of 54 countries, the only journalist on the continent at the moment is a journalist from the Globe and Mail. If we want Canadian companies to know what is happening in Africa, they have to get away from press clippings and what they are told about what is not working. I promise you that if you travel around Africa, as I have done, you will discover that there are things working and companies doing well, and things are needed.
To come back to the question of the continent today, the demographics speak for themselves in Africa. They are young consumers. There are 300 million people who need energy. Canada is in a very good place when it comes to energy, so why are we not in Africa doing business in the energy sector right now? We have health care infrastructure —
[English]
The Chair: I’m sorry. I’m going to interrupt because we’re well over time. Senator Ataullahjan had a small question that she has asked to Ambassador Lebleu also. With your indulgence, ambassador, we’ll go to Ambassador Lebleu.
Mr. Diendéré: My apologies.
The Chair: No, not at all. This is a fascinating topic, and I think we’re having a good hearing here.
Mr. Lebleu: The short answer would be, on whether we are making any progress, no. I’ll just focus on Mali, for example. Mali walked away from the French-protected system, then the European system. Then they walked away from the Multidimensional Integrated Stabilization Mission in Mali, or MINUSMA, the United Nations peacekeeping mission. They asked them to leave the country. They walked away from their traditional security partner in the region, the Economic Community of West African States, or ECOWAS, and they turned to Wagner in Africa, towards the Russian and non-traditional actors in the region.
Two or three years after, the result we’re seeing is a massive fleeing population. If you want to know why the answer is no, I would say to look at how many people are leaving their countries or villages. That’s the answer, and unfortunately the answer is that there is no progress.
The Chair: Thank you very much.
Senator Wilson: My question could be for either of you, but I think it’s probably for Ambassador Diendéré. I believe earlier you were saying that the with the removal of USAID, the amount of aid being targeted went from 48% to 29%.
For some reason, I would have thought that with DELTA, the drop would have been bigger with the removal of USAID. Have other state actors stepped into that void? If so, which ones have done so? Is China, in particular, doing some of that?
[Translation]
Mr. Diendéré: Senator, USAID withdrawal from Africa is a topic of ongoing debate in the American zone in Europe. Africans have moved on to other things. I have met with commissioners and many of the countries that are suffering the repercussions of the loss of USAID money. But Canada is not going to replace USAID. We don’t have the resources. We are talking about $15 billion per year. It is a matter of having to do what can be done right now, and doing it very well.
Second, yes, China, India, Türkiye and the others are making up for this in various ways: some through debt repayment, others in infrastructure and others in more specific projects.
Between last year and today, we have held a China-Africa summit, a Japan-Africa summit and an India-Africa summit, and we are preparing for several more. These are vehicles that they all use, through their meetings, to compensate or adjust based on what there is. For example, USAID has left and Africa is changing. It is no longer waiting; rather, it is transforming USAID into a business relationship, as the United States special envoy says. They are now talking about transactional relations with Africa.
[English]
Senator Coyle: I’m going to follow up on a question asked by our colleague Senator Ataullahjan. This is for you, Ambassador Lebleu.
A couple years ago, Senator Ravalia, some other senators and I visited Morocco. We learned while we were there about the work that Morocco and others in that region were doing to try to work with religious leaders in the Sahel on de-radicalization. I’m curious whether Canada is in any way plugged into some of those efforts by local actors in North Africa.
Mr. Lebleu: Thank you. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. This has been raised a number of times. We are actually seeing quite a positive impact as a result of having all those imams trained in Morocco; but at the same time, let’s be honest, there are other countries that I won’t name here that are involved in that space and funding other types of predication in the region. This is also a challenge that we’re facing, and we’re not well equipped to do so, honestly. However, I would say Morocco is playing a positive role in the region, to be honest. We should be grateful for what they have been doing on their own.
The Chair: Senator Gerba is starting a third round; she will have the floor.
[Translation]
Senator Gerba: My question is for you both, ambassadors, regarding the model adopted by the Americans and the French, who already have coordinating structures and have implemented policies to involve members of the diaspora. As you said, Ambassador Lebleu, diaspora members play an important role.
What do you think about establishing a permanent Canada-Africa relations council?
Mr. Diendéré: I will start. Thank you for your question, senator. I am not at the point where I will rule anything out that will get people talking about Africa and doing something good. Be it a round table or another coordinating body, as long as it is functional and allows for accountability and for organizing our activities, I am always up for it.
That gives me an opening to tell you very quickly that since the start of my mandate three years ago, we have heard much talk about the Indo-Pacific. Africa does not belong to that nor is it the Indo-Pacific. Africa is home to 54 countries and the situation is entirely different there. So all the tools there are attempts made to pass on from the Indo-Pacific, we would like to have them for Africa, but that is not going to happen.
I am entirely in favour of an instrument that could help us with accountability, with monitoring our projects, and with not being hit with political upheavals to monitor situations.
Mr. Lebleu: I gave a more modest, more regional example regarding my mandate as ambassador to Senegal, where our interest is in working with the community. We are pretty flexible regarding the modus operandi and we are very inclusive. We work with the Quebec government, with our colleagues in the immigration department, with private funders. I am always very open when it comes to methods of involvement and working with our partners.
The Chair: Thank you.
[English]
Senator M. Deacon: Thank you. If I could, I want to come back to what my colleague Senator Ataullahjan started on with respect to the first six months. I don’t think you were quite finished, and it was something I made note of when you were speaking earlier with respect to the change in leadership and the change in the team around you. At any time, that’s significant.
Ambassador, I’m wondering if there’s anything else you wanted to add to that, with particular focus on how you’re having to adjust and be agile and perhaps some things that you’re looking for or looking at now that weren’t on your radar six months ago.
Mr. Diendéré: Thank you, honourable senator. I will start by providing one notice.
With Canada as a G7 country, can you imagine the discussion around having a guest from the African Union to the G7? The whole thing happened during a transition period — new leadership at the AU, new leadership in Canada and Canada as a G7 country.
We did something very interesting. We brought the chairperson of the G7 to Addis Ababa just to calm everybody down, because every G7 country has guests. Since the African Union is a member of the G20, you have to invite them, but they were in transition. The leadership was new. We didn’t know whom to invite.
The whole thing went well, with South Africa coming as a G20 member and as the host of the new G20. That was an example of things we had to adjust while everything was here. I even had a foreign minister at one point, and the whole thing was changing in Africa.
These six months have been very interesting because we can sense that while the transition is happening, the leader countries — mainly China, Russia, India and Türkiye — are doing well. When the transition is like this, they are doing very well while we’re still doing studies, thinking about it, second-guessing and things like that. That’s my point.
For a new diplomat like me, it was hard. You have to juggle the ball and wait for something to happen, for your own government to set priorities for you. Then it was summer, and everybody went on vacation. Then we have to catch up with the whole thing after that.
It’s been very interesting. As one of my experiences as a diplomat, I can write a book on it.
The Chair: Thank you very much. As a former diplomat, I can see that nothing has really changed, so that encourages me somehow.
I know there are colleagues who still want to ask questions, but I want to see how best we can wrap this up. The way I want to do this, first of all, is to say that, at least in my time as chair, we’ve never had quite an event or a hearing like this where we have the expertise in the room and, at the same time, we’re getting it from the field. I think that’s something we might want to repeat.
As we go ahead now, our very talented analytical team will be writing the report. Some of it has already been prepared, but a lot has happened in the interval since we last met to discuss Canada’s relationship with Africa. As Ambassador Diendéré mentioned, of course, we had a transition; we had a prorogation and a dissolution, in parliamentary terms, an election and a new government. Canada is still the chair of the G7, so it still has the G7 presidency. Of course, there was an important election south of our border that has turned everything around to some degree, with probably more to come.
I guess the question that I would have, and it is really to all witnesses, is this: Is there something that has really changed in a trend line or in possible recommendations that we could make that should require greater emphasis from your perspective? After all, once we come out and publish our report, it will fall on you to respond to it or to prepare the response on behalf of your ministers and the government to our recommendations.
Is there something that really bears additional emphasis in the interval? Perhaps I should go to the assistant deputy minister first, if you have a view or an addition to make.
Ms. Urban: Thank you very much for the question.
Maybe I’ll start by saying thank you for the work that you’re doing. I think it continues to be very relevant, and I think the study and the recommendations you will come back with will be very useful for us.
I would simply say for us now, we know that we are working within a framework of Government of Canada priorities that are very clear. We have seven missions that have been set by the Prime Minister. That is different from what we had when the strategy was released in March. We are increasingly looking at everything that we’re doing and the implementation of the strategy through that lens of mutual beneficial partnerships, Canadian economic and security interests and Canadian sovereignty.
I’m looking at what we can do in line with supporting the rest of the Government of Canada with its overall objective, and the link between Canadian economic prosperity and our international engagement is a new direction for us that we’re taking at this time.
The Chair: Would any of our ambassadors from the field, from the safety of the field, I should say — when you’re away from headquarters, you get a bit more courageous — would you like to make a comment?
[Translation]
Mr. Lebleu: Personally, I think the transition is the Prime Minister’s priority. I can tell you that our assistant deputy minister and the deputy minister are asking that we align ourselves as closely as possible with these new priorities.
Some of those priorities are more applicable outside Canada, as you might suspect. The one that stands out clearly is the economic prosperity program. Even though I am in a low-income country, that is becoming an even bigger priority. I will stop there. Thank you.
Mr. Diendéré: Thank you for having us with you today. Yes, I concur in the comments of my assistant deputy minister and my colleagues.
I will close with one thing: At the start of the summer, I thought I would have to fight to get money for Canada’s Africa Strategy; at the end of the summer, I had to fight to get people to say the word “Africa”. That is troubling.
I want us to keep thinking about one thing: We cannot allow ourselves to leave Africa out of our diversification strategy. It is not a continent for tomorrow; it is now.
I want the committee to remember that if we miss the boat in Africa in 2025, we are missing it for Canadians and Canadian companies, and that is a real mistake. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you. That was well put.
[English]
On behalf of the committee, I’d like to offer our gratitude to Cheryl Urban, Assistant Deputy Minister, Africa Branch; Andrew Smith, Director General, Pan-African Affairs Bureau; Ryan Clark, Director General, Central, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau; Susan Steffen, Director General, West Africa and Maghreb Bureau; Ambassador Ben Marc Diendéré in Addis; and Ambassador Marcel Lebleu in Dakar. Of course, you also have those special envoy roles, which I find particularly interesting.
We are all proud of the work that you do and how you do it, so we encourage you to stay at it. You will see a report from us at a future point, hopefully not too far in the distant future. Thank you very much.
(The committee adjourned.)